Daughter wants one, what should I look for?
9 mm its not my favorite but you can get ammo cheap and anywhere :)
Fiancee's dad just got a Smith & Wesson MP40 shield. Nice, compact, I want to get one. Recoil in .40 isn't that bad but for an inexperienced shooter, maybe a bit much bark. It's available in 9mm as well.
Seen them for $350 OTD, I'm gonna get one soon.
for a new shooter or one that does not get to train frequently i would recommend a reliable revolver to start with . my wife bought an $1100 kimber 9 mm, but without frequent training she had trouble consistently operating the safety and also clearing malfunctions. good luck with the purchase and make the shooting enjoyable for her.
S&W Governor or Taurus Judge, shotshell capable with good stopping power and being a shotshell aim isn't as critical.
I use a Smith air weight 38+p . Its not an easy shooter but a 5 shot wheel gun it always works .
Gearbox
if recoil is a concern a 25 or 32 would do the job
tmarch i like those two pistols but might be a little to big for her to carry ;)
i personally like the 38 special for carry its loud but not hard to hold :)
Both of my daughters have carry permits. One has a pink mini Glock and the other has a pink Lady Smith in 38/357. Neither has a true safety which is a plus in my mind as getting it "unsafed" in an emergency can be a problem.
Like someone has already stated, whichever one you get, make the experience a good one for her. My daughter will soon be of age and she will probably be getting a .357 magnum(just hold on) snub nose. You can shoot .38, .38 +p, and .357 magnum. .38 is manageable. (Rossi made by Taurus(revolver), Ruger and Smith and Wesoon also makes one I think. If she likes it and decides to go up in "power" she can go up 2 higher classes. If she ever has to use it(I hope she never does) then in my opinion, I would only want her to have to pull the trigger one time and remove the threat. There is a lot of reading I have read about the .357 magnum,(that is what I carry) and I assure you, no one would want that round fired into them. This is only my opinion. Good luck and I applaud you for giving her the opportunity to protect herself should the need ever arise. Things are bad everywhere out there.
I forgot to mention the re-sale of the .357. It basically gives you another option for anyone wanting to buy one. If someone comes along looking for a .357 and you have a .38 and you want to part with it, then you won't have that option. However with the .357 you can shoot all three rounds in the same gun. In the revolver that is. Good luck with the choosing.
Seems the gun needs to fit her need... in a purse, under clothing, holster side arm ??
What does she have in mind?
Funny, I have been reading this thread and one of my daughters just called to tell me she got her c.c.p. in KY. yesterday. She went with a 9mm glock because of the no safety and the fact that she could disassemble and reassemble it without help.
Someone I know in MO got his wife a Glock recently. She managed to assemble it with the barrel backwards. Glock said no way that's possible. He emailed them a photo. They couldn't believe it. They had no advice on how to fix that one. :D
I would recommend looking at the S & W Bodyguard.380
I was also going to suggest a .380. A little short on knockdown but will get the job done, easy to conceal, and small enough for a woman's hand. With hollow points and a hot load it'll do what it needs to. Teach her how to shoot so she can place a round where it needs to be and a .380 will do fine.
Pat has a stainless AMT backup and I have a Ruger LCP, both 380's. I have 38's, a 357, and a 9mm, but size, weight, and concealability constraints have to be addressed.
Quote from: Magicman on December 06, 2015, 01:50:22 PM
Pat has a stainless AMT backup and I have a Ruger LCP, both 380's. I have 38's, a 357, and a 9mm, but size, weight, and concealability constraints have to be addressed.
I went with the ruger LCP 9MM. She is the assistant to the district attorney up here and she shoots with the sheriffs department. Maine has no carry law now.
Ruger SP101 in 357. Will also shoot 38s. Get the hogue grip.
Glock 26 with pinky add on.
S&W M&P9c
Bodyguard
This is the order I pick for a woman. Grip is KEY.
Looks like I am late to the party. Sorry But good pick.
I had to Google and read up on the new Ruger LC9. It's Ruger's answer to what customers were asking for. smiley_thumbsup
Quote from: Woodhauler on December 06, 2015, 02:14:21 PM
Maine has no carry law now.
I thought you had to get a permit to carry in Maine.
I knew there was something special about sawyers. Maybe it's because they know how to get things done. How to actually work with their hands. A simple gun question with many answers and not one of them whining about the evils of guns... :-) I feel right at home here.
FWIW I like a .380 for concealed carry. It's small, more than capable of doing the job, or getting me back to my real choice of either my TAVOR IDF, or UTAS tactical shotgun...
The available self defense bullet choices for .380 and 9mm are called a "surgeon's nightmare" because of the damage they can cause.
Quote from: Stuart Caruk on December 06, 2015, 08:37:22 PM
A simple gun question with many answers and not one of them whining about the evils of guns...
the only thing possibly evil about a gun would be the hand holding it :) all reasonable people know this and i think thats why this such a great site :) reasonable people :) ;) smiley_clapping smiley_clapping
For a pistol I love and would recommend my S&W M+P 45 compact. It is fairly inexpensive for a good piece that is well made. I might get a shield one of these days too. I also have a 686 .357 which was my first handgun, and I too would recommend starting her on a revolver because they are far less complicated and easier to learn to shoot. A good revolver to start her one is the Ruger SP-101 in .357. They are reliable, versatile, and fun to shoot.
That Ruger is a good little gun.
Normally in answer to your question, I would suggest the following:..
1 - buy her a CC weapon that is sized so that she will actually carry it. For many people (male and female), large, heavy pistols and revolvers tend to be left in the car or at home and not carried, and then they can't help her when she needs one. Size it so that she "won't leave home without it".
2 - get the largest caliber that she is comfortable shooting. .38 and .380 are about as small as you want to go (and that's because they both have great defensive ammo options).
3. Revolver versus semi-auto? If she has the hand strength to rack the slide then go with a semi-auto. For revolvers, the lightweight 5 shot .38's are a great choice. Light enough to carry but pack a good punch if needed.
4. - Which one? Have her handle enough guns to find the ones that fit well in her hand. Then, narrow down the selections to the gun that is the most natural "pointer" to her. By "pointer", I mean that she wants a gun that points as accurate as her finger does but w/o looking down the sights. There are enough pistols available to where she can find one that fits her and aims well for her. No sense her having to alter what's comfortable.
5. Finally, after she has done the above select the most comfortable, naturally pointing gun, largest that she is willing to carry daily AND with the largest magazine capacity.
I used to carry .380's, then decided to move up to a 17+1 round Walther PPQ 9mm because I wanted more ammo available. Unfortunately most of the Glock's don't fit my hand well but the Walther is a dream. It is a different mindset carrying IWB versus pocket, but in today's environment I am more comfortable with the greater magazine capacity and faster drawing ability of the IWB.
Just some food for thought.
Good points, I was thinking that she might want to start on something like an SP-101 to learn how to shoot before she actually starts carrying. I wouldn't recommend someone carrying without really knowing how to shoot/handle the gun. And also it's a good idea to train to protect your gun if in a fight, because if someone takes your gun while duking it out that's bad news bears.
I would love to own on of those bullpups but I'm sure they're illegal here in the people's republic of NYS :(
I used to carry an sp101 in 357. Still do every now and then. Can be a bit heavy. I mostly carry a 10mm glock 29 now since I got a good deal on it and I am hard on my CC pistols. If you work like most of the guys on the forum do you will carry a scratched banged up still get the job done hand gun.
I switched to 10mm from 9,38,45 as my woods carry gun after I had a bear wonder up on me while cutting some large pines. I could of spat on her/him it was so close. To be honest the saw was still running and I would of used that since faster then a draw. Luck had it we both decided to live and went our ways. Not that it maters but I also carry hard cast lead TC bullets.
If I were going to get a pistol for her to just practice with, I personally would get a .22. There is no recoil and she could get used to hitting a target and not have too much noise. It does not take much for anyone who is starting out, to dislike guns because they are too loud and kick too much. I have noticed this especially with my wife and daughter. I don't know how .22 ammo is where you are, but usually around here if you buy a gun, they will also sell you a box of .22 ammo. That is about the only way you find it around here. It has been that way around here since Sandy Hook. Good luck on the decision.
X2
I bought some good .22 ammo from Sportsman's Guide and had it delivered. Got tired of checking the local stores for when they would not be "sold out".
Was told by Savage Arms that all their .22 gun testing was done with Federal Premium Gold Medal Match for consistency. That being said, when I rec'd the .22 rifle back after their techs put it through it's final testing, the 10 casings returned with it were stamped with a C, which I took to be CCI ammo. Regardless, the rifle works smoother/better now for whatever they did to it.
Ammo link (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist/ammo-shooting/rimfire-ammo/22lr-ammo?d=121&c=417&s=2886)
I picked up a smith&wesson mp shield with laser site for myself today, 40 caliber. Seems nice to me!
If you don't mind, let us know what you decide on getting. Maybe there are some goods points about a certain caliber that we have not thought of and it my make a good point to help others decide. My daughter will hopefully be getting one within a year so she will need to decide also.
I have a Heritage 32 H&R Magnum 6 shooter not to much noise and no big kick it's a lot fun to shoot
Some of this has been mentioned. I decided to get a CWP a number of years ago. Given that I work with a lot of law enforcement, I went to them for their suggestions. Here are some of the points they made.
1) Carrying a weapon is horribly caustic to the weapon. Grime, dirt, sweat, rain, etc. will quickly degrade its performance. So you should only consider carrying an automatic if you are going to be "religious" about cleaning it weekly. If you are that consistent with cleaning, then an auto is your best choice as it will generally have more rounds in the clip.
2) If auto is your choice, then most of the officers I talked to recommended .40 caliber, as it was the best balance between the knockdown power of the .45 and the number of rounds you can carry in a 9 mm. There were many who preferred the .45 caliber. None of the officers I talked to like the 9mm. It has the reputation among law enforcement of not knocking down targets, who tend to continue to return fire.
3) If you are like me, and you are not into cleaning your gun weekly as a "fun" exercise, then almost universally all of the officers I talked to recommended a revolver. Their point was that if you need to pull that gun and fire it, then it HAD to work. If you find yourself in a situation where you need to protect yourself or others with deadly force, the only thing worse than being unarmed, is to pull out a gun that doesn't work.
4) Once you decide on a revolver, again almost universally, the officers recommended the largest caliber you are comfortable with carrying and shooting should be chosen, (up to a .357 which was the overwhelming recommendation). As has been mentioned above, the officers talked about the ability to use both .38 caliber ammo as well as the .357. One of the downsides they mentioned to using .357 ammo is the tendency for the bullets to go "through" your target and endanger others. So they recommended that if you choose to to carry with .357 ammo, make sure you spend the money to buy the best hollow point, anti-personnel ammo you can.
I owned several single action Ruger revolvers, (including my personal favorite .357 with a 6" barrel), but had not shot a lot of other revolvers. So I took the officers' advice and started hitting a number of gun ranges where I could rent different guns. After trying many different manufacturers, and options, I went with the Ruger SP-101, stainless steel with a 2" barrel. While it is only a 5 shot revolver, it was hands down the most comfortable to carry due to its slimmer design and lighter weight. For me, it just naturally fit my hand and was very easy for me to find my aiming point. I've never regretted choosing it, and thankfully, never had to use it other than for pleasure shooting and finishing off a few wounded animals, (and a couple of large halibut that we didn't want flopping in the boat). =)
Quote from: LaneC on December 10, 2015, 08:28:18 PM
If you don't mind, let us know what you decide on getting. Maybe there are some goods points about a certain caliber that we have not thought of and it my make a good point to help others decide. My daughter will hopefully be getting one within a year so she will need to decide also.
Got her ruger LC9s muddy girl. Got myself a Smith & Wesson MP Sheild with laser in the 40.
My only suggestion(s) would be if you are going to carry "often", go with stainless with the brushed finish (better corrosion resistance), and then stay with a caliber you're comfortable with!
No holster is need for this Charter Arms .38spl.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1310_28Small29.JPG)
The grip does the job.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1312_28Small29.JPG)
It catches on your waistband and keeps it handy.
I have a Charter Arms Bull Dog in 44 special.
That's pretty neat!
Carrying a pistol is a huge responsibility and not a decision to be rushed into.
As others have said make certain she is comfortable shooting with smaller calibres first.
Depending on how sensitive she is to firing various calibres and is committed
to carrying I would look to a Baretta Tomcat in 32 ACP or a bit smaller the Bobcat in 25 cal.
The other option could be a Bond Arms Derringer which is what I currently have. Its my first pistol, over-built, easy to operate but not as carry friendly as the Baretta's
Dan
The Glock 43 9mm compact is very nice
Quote3) If you are like me, and you are not into cleaning your gun weekly as a "fun" exercise, then almost universally all of the officers I talked to recommended a revolver.
Thank you for posting this! I have been searching a lot on this topic and this is the first time I've been made aware of this very valid (IMO) statement.
Quote from: dgdrls on December 12, 2015, 09:51:38 PM
I would look to a Baretta Tomcat in 32 ACP or a bit smaller the Bobcat in 25 cal.
I think a .25 is a mistake. Unless you're just trying to fiss off the person you use it on.
A .22 might be a better choice than the .25 IMO. Perhaps the best choice would be a .22 mag. Far more deadly than a .25. When I need small, I carry my .22 mag derringer with short barreled personal protection rounds. On and around my ranch, I carry the KelTec PMR30. A full size (extremely light) double action .22 mag that has 31 rounds ready and able to do whatever you need it to do and it doesn't have much kick. If it wasn't a worthy round, LEO wouldn't fear the .22 mag. They do penetrate some vests.
Just watched a video of the KelTec PMR30.
That's quite a pistol, I'd probably have one if they were allowed in NYS! ::)
Been waiting to see how long it took for the Kel Tec to show up in this post. I rarely carry but a couple of times this week I had a pack of coyotes come in on me while hunting at night. i generally carry a bolt action 22. They got close enough I was wondering where my 1 shot should be. Soo....next time out I stuck the little Kel Tec in my front pocket and never knew it was there.
I am familiar with the Kel-Tec name but not with that little jewel. smiley_thumbsup
Quote from: SLawyer Dave on December 11, 2015, 12:00:11 AM
1) Carrying a weapon is horribly caustic to the weapon. Grime, dirt, sweat, rain, etc. will quickly degrade its performance. So you should only consider carrying an automatic if you are going to be "religious" about cleaning it weekly. If you are that consistent with cleaning, then an auto is your best choice as it will generally have more rounds in the clip.
Dave, very good points all but my experience re cleaning is a bit different. I used to be religious about cleaning my pistol after every shoot (and I shoot multiple times monthly), but after querying a number of knowledgeable concealed carry folks in my state, those who carry current generation polymer auto's only clean them a few times a year - the reliability has improved that much.
I carry my PPQ M2 daily in an IWB holster. Living on a farm it gets exposed to a lot of grit and grime. I shoot it in comps once or twice a month with no FTF's, and only clean it every few months. Sometimes I'll run a patch through the barrel before shooting, but usually don't take the time to dismantle it and clean it thoroughly.
Having said all of that, without question a regular cleaning is best.
Re 9mm versus .40 and .45, clearly the balistics are better on the .40's and .45's. However, modern 9mm defensive ammo has been improved markedly in the past ten years or so, to the point where it is much more effective than it was "back when". Here is an interesting article by Larry Vickers about this topic:
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=7b1a9382c490b04b227c7c2b9&id=44b9b11231&e=852473e203
And here is a really informative article about why the FBI recently changed to 9mm:
http://p2t2solutions.com/fbi-finally-decides-on-standard-service-rounds-for-its-use/
One of the greatest benefits to 9mm versus the other calibers is the greater magazine capacity. I have found that I shoot more accurately if I'm not worrying about running out of ammo.
Right on I carry my M+P 45 compact very frequently, and it does get dirty, but I sure as heck don't clean it once a week! Have you ever watched any of the torture tests people put them through on youtube? Sure nuff daily carry isn't gonna phase it! I am confident that it will go boom when I pull the trigger if the need arises.
That was an interesting article. I don't consider myself a ballistics expert, but from multiple law enforcement officers, over more than 18 years, (even through the last week when I again talked to several officers to talk about this very subject), I have repeatedly been told about an FBI shootout in Florida that they base their concerns about. Here is the article from Wikipedia about this shooting:
"The 1986 FBI Miami shootout was a gun battle that occurred on April 11, 1986 in an unincorporated region of Dade County in South Florida (renamed Miami-Dade on November 13, 1997) between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers. During the firefight, FBI Special Agents Jerry L. Dove and Benjamin P. Grogan were killed, while five other agents were wounded. The two robbery suspects, William Russell Matix and Michael Lee Platt, were also killed.
The incident is infamous in FBI history and is well-studied in law enforcement circles. Despite outnumbering the suspects 4 to 1, the agents found themselves pinned down by suppressive rifle fire and unable to respond effectively. Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the shootout, Platt fought on and continued to injure and kill agents. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in the FBI and many police departments around the United States."
So those of you that have better ballistics knowledge than me, please pipe in. I have consulted and worked on some contracts concerning governmental contracting and supply. Price is overwhelmingly the issue in my experience. So I am somewhat skeptical that the FBI is making this change primarily due to "officer safety", but rather for cost savings.
Maybe I am wrong, but given the different potential for powder capacity, and bullet shape/mass/ingredients, I find it rather impossible to believe that 9mm ammo (alone), has been the only round that has gained the potential for such increased ballistics over the last 30 years. Whatever you do to 9mm, you should be able to do to .40 and .45. Potential Mass of bullet vs. size of powder charge, should still give both the .40 and .45 knockdown and penetration advantages over the 9mm. What the article seems to say is, that the 9mm is "close enough" ballistically, and with more bullets in a clip, the FBI thinks it is a fair trade off, (especially because it will be substantially cheaper). I hope they are right, but I can tell you that at least the small sample of rural law enforcement I deal with, totally disagree with the article's conclusions.
Now again, back to the 1986 shootout, the issue wasn't that the agents couldn't hit the targets, they did so multiple times. The targets were coming out of a door, the agents already had their weapons unholstered and at the ready. When they confronted the targets, the targets started pulling out their weapons. The FBI officers all had the first round fired, and multiple hits were scored against the targets, BEFORE the targets returned fire. The autopsies of the targets showed that they were both "walking dead" after the first round of hits. They both suffered terminal wounds that would kill them within a matter of seconds. However, the 9mm round did not have enough power to "knock them down" and to incapacitate them immediately. That is why the two targets were still able to continue firing wounding and killing officers while they continued to take more hits. That is/was what made this so traumatic for law enforcement.
That is why the FBI switched to the .40 thereafter. They concluded that the 9mm was not the optimal round, even with higher capacities, to immediately incapacitate an active shooter. I have no dispute that a 9mm round is probably almost as deadly as a .40 or .45. However, if I have to pull my gun to try and shoot you, because you are threatening my life or that of others with deadly force; then I want that bullet to immediately incapacitate you, knock you down, and make it that much harder for you to continue attacking. Whether the assailant dies 1.5 seconds earlier or later is not my main concern.....it is to cease their attack as quickly as possible.
I like my .45
Don't need a lot of bullets to get the job done.
Unless you can't hit what your aiming at :D
Doesn't matter here in the people's republic of nys, we can only carry 7 rounds in our mags legally, which makes me feel better about my m+p 45c because it only holds 7 rnds in the mag (well 8 but you have a heck of of time closing the mag if you have 8 in there so i keep 7 in mag and 1 in chamber.
You guys can keep your big, heavy guns with heavy bullets. Personally, I'll stick with my 22 mag with 31 rounds coupled with my ability to hit my target. It somehow provides great comfort knowing I have plenty go gas in the tank.
I plan on disarming the boogeyman with my charming wit and good looks.
Does that mean telling him to get a good look at what you're shooting him wit?
Quote from: 4x4American on December 15, 2015, 07:21:02 AM
Doesn't matter here in the people's republic of nys, we can only carry 7 rounds in our mags legally, which makes me feel better about my m+p 45c because it only holds 7 rnds in the mag (well 8 but you have a heck of of time closing the mag if you have 8 in there so i keep 7 in mag and 1 in chamber.
We are back to Ten.
Quote from: edkemper on December 15, 2015, 12:40:29 PM
You guys can keep your big, heavy guns with heavy bullets. Personally, I'll stick with my 22 mag with 31 rounds coupled with my ability to hit my target. It somehow provides great comfort knowing I have plenty go gas in the tank.
I would love to have one of the Kel-Tec PMR - 30. But we can not in NYS.
Quote from: SLawyer Dave on December 14, 2015, 11:51:40 PM
That is why the FBI switched to the .40 thereafter. They concluded that the 9mm was not the optimal round, even with higher capacities, to immediately incapacitate an active shooter..
I do not know how to do more then one quote in a post yet so sorry for three in a row. With that said.. Please keep in mind as law enforcement on duty they can not use Hollow Point bullets. As an off duty or EDC for everyone else you can. This changes the game. Dave well said quote.
O.R.; Once you click on reply and your reply box shows up, scroll down to the post that you want to quote, then in the top of that post click on "Insert Quote" and it'll be posted in your reply, then you can make comments to it!
You can do multiple quotes!
Quote from: Outer Rondacker on December 15, 2015, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: 4x4American on December 15, 2015, 07:21:02 AM
Doesn't matter here in the people's republic of nys, we can only carry 7 rounds in our mags legally, which makes me feel better about my m+p 45c because it only holds 7 rnds in the mag (well 8 but you have a heck of of time closing the mag if you have 8 in there so i keep 7 in mag and 1 in chamber.
We are back to Ten.
Big whoop! lol I thought I had read that we can have a 10 rnd mag but can only carry 7.
Quote from: SLawyer Dave on December 14, 2015, 11:51:40 PM
That was an interesting article. I don't consider myself a ballistics expert, but from multiple law enforcement officers, over more than 18 years, (even through the last week when I again talked to several officers to talk about this very subject), I have repeatedly been told about an FBI shootout in Florida that they base their concerns about. Here is the article from Wikipedia about this shooting:
"The 1986 FBI Miami shootout was a gun battle that occurred on April 11, 1986 in an unincorporated region of Dade County in South Florida (renamed Miami-Dade on November 13, 1997) between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers. During the firefight, FBI Special Agents Jerry L. Dove and Benjamin P. Grogan were killed, while five other agents were wounded. The two robbery suspects, William Russell Matix and Michael Lee Platt, were also killed.
The incident is infamous in FBI history and is well-studied in law enforcement circles. Despite outnumbering the suspects 4 to 1, the agents found themselves pinned down by suppressive rifle fire and unable to respond effectively. Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the shootout, Platt fought on and continued to injure and kill agents. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in the FBI and many police departments around the United States."
So those of you that have better ballistics knowledge than me, please pipe in. I have consulted and worked on some contracts concerning governmental contracting and supply. Price is overwhelmingly the issue in my experience. So I am somewhat skeptical that the FBI is making this change primarily due to "officer safety", but rather for cost savings.
Maybe I am wrong, but given the different potential for powder capacity, and bullet shape/mass/ingredients, I find it rather impossible to believe that 9mm ammo (alone), has been the only round that has gained the potential for such increased ballistics over the last 30 years. Whatever you do to 9mm, you should be able to do to .40 and .45. Potential Mass of bullet vs. size of powder charge, should still give both the .40 and .45 knockdown and penetration advantages over the 9mm. What the article seems to say is, that the 9mm is "close enough" ballistically, and with more bullets in a clip, the FBI thinks it is a fair trade off, (especially because it will be substantially cheaper). I hope they are right, but I can tell you that at least the small sample of rural law enforcement I deal with, totally disagree with the article's conclusions.
Now again, back to the 1986 shootout, the issue wasn't that the agents couldn't hit the targets, they did so multiple times. The targets were coming out of a door, the agents already had their weapons unholstered and at the ready. When they confronted the targets, the targets started pulling out their weapons. The FBI officers all had the first round fired, and multiple hits were scored against the targets, BEFORE the targets returned fire. The autopsies of the targets showed that they were both "walking dead" after the first round of hits. They both suffered terminal wounds that would kill them within a matter of seconds. However, the 9mm round did not have enough power to "knock them down" and to incapacitate them immediately. That is why the two targets were still able to continue firing wounding and killing officers while they continued to take more hits. That is/was what made this so traumatic for law enforcement.
That is why the FBI switched to the .40 thereafter. They concluded that the 9mm was not the optimal round, even with higher capacities, to immediately incapacitate an active shooter. I have no dispute that a 9mm round is probably almost as deadly as a .40 or .45. However, if I have to pull my gun to try and shoot you, because you are threatening my life or that of others with deadly force; then I want that bullet to immediately incapacitate you, knock you down, and make it that much harder for you to continue attacking. Whether the assailant dies 1.5 seconds earlier or later is not my main concern.....it is to cease their attack as quickly as possible.
Dave, all great points. I think that the 9mm ammo has improved a lot since at 1986 shootout, but there is no arguing the fact that .40 and .45 is a more powerful round.
for you guys who like big pistols check out the s&w 460 magnum. it will shoot the 45 long colt 454 and 460 . my brother bought one and it is unreal.there is more difference between the 460 and the 45 colt than there is between the 45 colt and and a 25 auto :o he bought it to hunt with and killed a deer at about 130 yards but the bad thing is it hurts my wrist after 4 or 5 shots its not hard to hold but its not a ladies gun ;D
Quote from: sandsawmill14 on December 15, 2015, 10:52:36 PM
for you guys who like big pistols check out the s&w 460 magnum. it will shoot the 45 long colt 454 and 460 . my brother bought one and it is unreal.there is more difference between the 460 and the 45 colt than there is between the 45 colt and and a 25 auto :o he bought it to hunt with and killed a deer at about 130 yards but the bad thing is it hurts my wrist after 4 or 5 shots its not hard to hold but its not a ladies gun ;D
You are a MAN then. Sheesh, when I was up on Kodiak Island a few years ago fishing, our guide carried one of those. When we got back close to town, we stopped and he let anyone who was interested shoot it. His was stainless with a 4" barrel, and of course, I couldn't pass up the opportunity.
My Ruger, single Blackhawk in .357 with a 6" barrel is a Cannon. I've shot right next to someone shooting a .44 Mag, and my gun is louder and more violent. One shot out of his gun, however, and I really did not want to take another. Now, if I had a big Kodiak bear coming at me, I am very confident I could shoot the thing empty, but it is not something you want to take to target practice.
yea its big ;D we shoot the colt 45 "cowboy rounds" in it when just playing around but we shot a box or 2 of the 460s setting the scope and just shooting. there is 3 of us and we might shoot 100-150 rounds of 45s and then just a couple shot a piece of the 460. its the only handgun i have ever shot that you can feel the pressure of the blast on your face. its AWESOME in small doses :D :D :D
i doubt you would need to unload it to stop a bear but i probably would ;D :D :D
Quote from: 4x4American on December 15, 2015, 08:05:48 PM
Quote from: Outer Rondacker on December 15, 2015, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: 4x4American on December 15, 2015, 07:21:02 AM
Doesn't matter here in the people's republic of nys, we can only carry 7 rounds in our mags legally, which makes me feel better about my m+p 45c because it only holds 7 rnds in the mag (well 8 but you have a heck of of time closing the mag if you have 8 in there so i keep 7 in mag and 1 in chamber.
We are back to Ten.
Big whoop! lol I thought I had read that we can have a 10 rnd mag but can only carry 7.
If you follow what has been going on in NYS over the last few years it is a very big whoop. We won the fight to change it back to 10. Now the fight is going on to get the mag law in NYS tossed out. Stop in to Ed's shop and shoot the bull with him and he can get you out of the shadows. The guys on the mountain are very good as well. Humm now you have made me want to take a trip to see them. It is Wednesday they should be open tonight, never know perhaps I will see you in the shop. :)
Yea I know all them guys, Ed, Rich, Scott, John, Linda, Jerry. Good folks. I live a stone throw away from them.
Quote from: sandsawmill14 on December 15, 2015, 10:52:36 PM
for you guys who like big pistols check out the s&w 460 magnum. it will shoot the 45 long colt 454 and 460 . my brother bought one and it is unreal.there is more difference between the 460 and the 45 colt than there is between the 45 colt and and a 25 auto :o he bought it to hunt with and killed a deer at about 130 yards but the bad thing is it hurts my wrist after 4 or 5 shots its not hard to hold but its not a ladies gun ;D
I've had a crush on the 460 since I seen Ed's at the gun shop up the road...also his 500 :o
I load for the 500 and the 50 ae and let me tell you its a big hunk of lead.:} If I had to pick over a gain I would go with the S&W 500 Alaskan. Cannon balls do not need long barrels.
Lol yea they don't!
How is she liking the pistol?
You guys that are carrying the PMR30 How much did you pay over book . Last time I checked I was # 610 on the list from the dist . I have yet to hold one let alone see one . There on The gun sale site at 1 - 200 $ over retail . I will wait .
Quote from: LaneC on December 27, 2015, 01:27:20 PM
How is she liking the pistol?
Seems to be one of the top 5 gifts I have got!
Just wondering about the PMR30.
With the 10-round max capacity mag (even though we can only (legally) put 7 rounds in it) I'm wondering if the gun can be ordered with a 10-round mag?
Quote from: Gearbox on December 27, 2015, 02:30:55 PM
You guys that are carrying the PMR30 How much did you pay over book . Last time I checked I was # 610 on the list from the dist . I have yet to hold one let alone see one . There on The gun sale site at 1 - 200 $ over retail . I will wait .
I paid $105 over MSRP (395 I think). That was a few years ago.
Recently, our local Big R store was selling them for $395 during a sale. They are making them hand over fist at the factory. Shouldn't be very hard to find them at a reasonable price. But not through the online venues. I think they are still over $500 on gun broker.
Quote from: Chuck White on December 29, 2015, 02:19:53 PM
Just wondering about the PMR30.
With the 10-round max capacity mag (even though we can only (legally) put 7 rounds in it) I'm wondering if the gun can be ordered with a 10-round mag?
No aftermarket mags that I know of. I bought an additional few from the factor. They only come in a 30 round mag.
Keltic now also manufactures a semi-auto .22 mag rifle that uses the same mags.
Being born and bred in the San Fernando Valley (outside L.A./Southern CA) I got to talk to an "insider" after the bank robbery and major shootout some years ago. The bad guys were wearing body armor. Officers went to my old local gun store and "borrowed" long guns. Most AR style in .223.
Everything LEO threw at them was bouncing off their armor. He maintained that the .223 was the right choice. I disagreed and countered that I wondered how many officers and civilians that died that die would have lived if just one smart cop had grabbed something like maybe a 45-70. Body armor or not, the receiver would have been off his feet instantly.
All those cops with all their standard issue guns were not in control and lost numerous good men/woman and civilians.
Sometimes, when LEO brings the wrong weapons to a fight, you are in trouble. In this day and age, you don't bring a .38 and an 870 to a fight with todays weapon choices. On the other hand, I don't think tanks and missile launchers are appropriate for LEO.
Chuck, I thought that outer rondacker said they did away with the 7 round carry thing?
4x4American, Not sure, I don't keep right up on everything, that would be a good thing.
I have a 22LR pistol that has 10-round clips.
It would have been good if Cuomo hadn't even thought up this "Safe Act" stuff.
I know this thread is a few weeks old, and the OP decision is complete. So I just want to throw something out there for any future consideration when this subject comes up again.
If a gun isn't fun to shoot, we won't practice. If we don't practice we won't be proficient. If we are not proficient, a gun may do more harm than good in a crisis.
Meaning...
New shooters should spend some time at the range and find out which style and caliber they enjoy. Renting a few different calibers in both revolver and pistol will let them try most combos that fits their need. Acquiring a weapon that is FUN for them to use will help them tremendously with all the little things a good shooter should do.
After their comfort level and enjoyment of shooting climbs from the confidence of shooting a comfortable sidearm, now they can move into the "tool" aspect of concealed carry, or just a plain ole defense weapon.
I've taught all 4 of my kids and wife how to shoot. As soon as they were able to show me they had a little common sense and would do as I asked we started shooting. Lever action BB's, bb pistol, .22s .410s 20s... etc. We didn't worry about accuracy, that will come for just about anyone who keeps shoot'n. We concentrated on safety and good consistent mechanics. There is quite a bit of debate about the "best / right" way to stand and / or hold a weapon. It's been my experience that the basics are about the same but each individual will vary and thats ok, as long as they are consistent.
My second daughter went into law enforcement and was a little apprehensive about qualifying at the firearm training portion of the academy. Tighter requirements at the state level, along with having a pistol assigned to you to qualify with. She much prefers a wheel gun and hadn't used a pistol in quite some time. She came home for the weekend prior to qualifying and we spent a couple of days in the back yard punching holes in paper. Luckily my glock is the exact model of the state issue. She qualified on her first practice run, so she got the rest of the week off while the rest finished qualifying. She then had to back and compete for their "top gun" of the class. She achieved top gun, then top gun of the region then top 5 in the state. She got a promotion before she ever got on the job, and got to choose her shift. yes... I'm proud.
Anyway... If it's fun they will continue. Safe and consistent and they'll get good!
I don't want to date myself but back when I "qualified" in the shooting part of the course in CA, they wouldn't let me qualify with my Ruger 92f because they feared the second shot in autos. Yup. So they told me to bring 120 rounds of .38. They loaned me an old duty 6 shooter.
We went through the course in the morning to show us what we were going to do in the afternoon to qualify. We broke for lunch after we all went through 60 rounds. We had a man target and had to hit 43 out of 60 in the kill zone to qualify. (58/60)
After lunch we did the official test. (60/60)
What surprised me was a local deputy there to do his routine re-qualifying. He got 43/60.
I carry a Ruger SP-101 (.357) 2 inch barrel in stainless. I use an IWB holster. The gun is very simple to use and easy to handle. With a shirt covering it, you never know it is there and quite comfortable to carry. During the summer, it can be a little more difficult to conceal. I am considering a Ruger LCP (.380) that will fit in a pocket for that reason.
My wife carries a S&W Model 649 (.357). It has the shrouded hammer so it doesn't catch on anything in her pocket book.
My daughter is 15 and weighs about 90 pounds. We have been wanting to get her comfortable with a handgun so that she can take care of herself. She is pretty adept with the Ruger 10-22, so she is fairly comfortable with a long gun with no recoil. We went to the range last night for her first handgun lesson. I schooled her on my Ruger SP-101 and loaded it with .38 for her first practice. She was a little apprehensive to begin with, but popped off the first five rounds without issue. After about 10 minutes she told me she wanted to shoot again. She ended up running about 50 rounds through the gun and was quite comfortable with the report and recoil. On the 20 yard target, she consistently hit what she was aiming at. I don't think many women should have an issue with recoil from the .38. Loaded with .357 hollow points, it will stop 2 legged targets.
Wudman
As a law enforcement firearms instructor for our agency, I get this question frequently. While I carry a Glock 22 in 40 S&W as my personal and duty firearm I often recommend revolvers for new shooters, male or female. I've nothing against an autoloader and it would always be my first choice for my defensive weapon. However, autoloaders require a level of commitment to learn to use effectively in a crisis. Like; what do you do when the gun fails to feed, fire or eject. You cannot just pull the trigger again. It must be cleared and if one has not trained to clear a malfunctioning gun, under the stress of a deadly force encounter is not the time to learn.
I don't bring this up to scare you away from an autoloader but they do require a higher level of commitment to training than does a revolver. This is not to say one doesn't need to train with a revolver, that requirement still remains, but revolvers don't generally malfunction. If they do, it takes more than a clearance drill to get them back in service.
I would highly recommend attending a good concealed carry class. I don't know the laws in your area concerning concealed carry permit requirements but whether your state requires a carry permit of not, a good concealed carry class will provide instruction in the different types of handguns, methods of carry, actual shooting and most importantly coverage of the legal application of force.
As far as appropriate defensive rounds I will part from the norm. Most will recommend at least a 38 or 380 and generally that's excellent advice. However there are some shooters for whom even a 38 is more than they want to handle. I would rather see a person carrying a 22 or 32 that they are completely comfortable and competent with than a 38 or more powerful they are afraid to fire. Granted the folks who find a 38 to be too much are few, but they do exist. For them a Ruger SP101 in 32 H&R or a small 22 semi-auto or revolver make a good choice.
I really like my Glock 19 with a few Apex mods, really a nice carry pistol and relatively cheap to shoot. For hunting, the latest American Rifleman has an article on the Glock 40 Gen 4 MOS in 10mm and I may retire my S&W .357 as a hunting carry and get one of those. If you join the Glock Shooting Association, you get a coupon for every year you are a member that allows you to buy any Glock at cost. A pretty good deal and I have bought 2 that way, my 19 and a 34. I am a real Glock fan, so reliable and simple as long as you buy good ammo, but that's the case with any automatic. If you haven't tried one, you should.
My first time answering here.
Interesting thread, many opinions.
Started out as a question for the Daughter's carry gun and devolved into posts on hand cannons.
My personal is a Walther pps in 9mm.
This particular pistol is now called the classic as Walther has introduced a new model with a push button mag release and no light/laser rail.
Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on February 25, 2016, 10:02:33 AM
My first time answering here.
Interesting thread, many opinions.
Started out as a question for the Daughter's carry gun and devolved into posts on hand cannons.
My personal is a Walther pps in 9mm.
This particular pistol is now called the classic as Walther has introduced a new model with a push button mag release and no light/laser rail.
Same here.
My step daughter has a Rossi .357 Magnum Snubby and shoots .30spc all day long. She can hit a 12x18 steel plate at 25 yards without issue and can load .357 to carry. My wife has a S&W 686 357 Magnum and as above shoots the 38spc most of the time but loads .357 for protection. Both train on the .357 loads but usually just shoot 38's. Philosophy is simple: train where you are comfortable, train where you are not, don't worry about recoil later as adrenalin will kick in and you won't even notice it.
I like the .357 mag and have a Ruger Blackhawk in that cal but prefer my Kimber 1911 in .45acp for a carry gun...
One thing I always tell people: don't buy an autoloader unless you train train train on it. Learning to deal with stove pipes and ftf's (failure to feed) etc takes practice to do well and do rapidly. Furthermore, you can't just load and forget (too many do this and get a weak magazine spring which causes the above when it counts) and need to swap out mags routinely (I do it every two weeks).
Revolvers are forgiving and always work if maintained in good order with good loads and when the chips are down because that prowler smashed the door in and is rushing to your room at 3am you don't want to have to deal with a ftf or stove pipe after the first missed shot...better to just pull the trigger and get the next round off without ever worrying about trouble that might occur.
As for autos, how many use dummies to train with? place them at different locations (2nd, 1st, 3rd, 6th) in different magazines, shuffle them up and then start shooting (at the range of course) and drill it into yourself on how to clear the missfire IMMEDIATELY and rapidly....yes I have done this but then I was a PMI in a past life (USMC) and we did all kinds of interesting things
I was going to pick up a Taurus 444 but it was 53 oz empty, so instead i got the Glock G40 gen 4 mos only around 40 oz with 15 rounds in it. I'm not the biggest fan of the glock trigger mush but you can't beat it for capacity and weight savings.
Well guys I finely got to hold a PMR 30 at our local fleet farm . desert tan or something , kind of ugly . The gun was a lot bigger that I thought it would be . Light but too bulky to fit in a pocket . O well it was priced at retail . They said they will be getting 25 a month for a while
I just put a deposit on a Ruger LCR in 327 Federal mag for my wife. I would have bought a 22 mag but being rim fire the trigger pull is stiffer. The 327 will fire 32 HR mag as well as 32 long for practice. Much less recoil, which is important in a gun that weighs a little over 1 pound and is for my wife.
I went through a dozen different handguns in the first 30 years of my handgunners life , from S&W model 19, 27, chief special, (38, 357, 38, 44spec and 44mag), Ruger 22, 44mag, Colt 1911, huntsman,etc and Tarus 92 9mm, sig p230 380cal and after burning a shootload of ammo I finally ended up as a surveillance officer for Az. supreme court wher I carried the Tarus for a year then went to the Sig p230 which was my first time involved in a shooting situation. It was a night shooting and I overshot my target. We got the bad guys anyway (thanks to radios). When I shot I forgot about the safety for about a second and decided to try my armorers Glock 19 on my next trip to the range. No worries about the wasted safety, or shooting in the dark as his 19 had tritium night sights and I shot my best score ever. I switched to a Glock 19 with night sights and three xtra cap. mags and never looked back... After 14 years of service I retired my 19 and got a 17. That was 19 years ago and I still carry my 17. My wife carries my old 19 or her new 43 single stack in the summer. My son just gave me a new 21 with night sights and had it ported. Haven't had time to use it much yet, but it feels the same and works the same... I'd recommend a Glock 43 with night sights... It's real easy to overshoot when you really can't see your front sight... You tend to keep pulling it up to see it. OOPS!!! Oh yeah the 9mm is replacing the gov 40 now. Due to the fact that there is less recoil and the 9mm is now being produced in much more powerful self defense rounds, equal to the 10mm and the 45acp...
The standard Sig v-crown ammo for 10mm is 180 gr at 1250fps 625 ft lbs....I've never seen 9mm come anywhere close to that, and 180gr 10mm buffalo bore is at almost 800 ft lbs from a 6" gun. Most 10mm is down loaded to near 40 s&w specs due to early gun issues and soft wrist people complaining about recoil.
Sorry..it double posted it....
All I know for sure is that I don't want to get hit by anything BB gun or larger. :D
They have air guns in .45 and .50 cal that dont have a problem taking deer and hogs.
Hello gundalf, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Please add your location to your profile so that we will remember. ;D
Typical 9mm Plus ammo runs around 350 ft-lbs of energy.
Typical 45acp runs around 500 ft-lbs of energy.
Coupled with the larger cross section, heavier bullet and lower velocity and the .45acp just can't really be compared to the 9mm frankly. Big fat slow moving bullets leave more energy in the body than fast moving small bullets do. I know, I know, this argument is old and beat to death but I just wanted to point to the above (energy) to show that the idea that the 9mm is producing similar energy isn't correct.
Think about it this way: if the 9mm can be improved, so too can the .45. Better powder, primers and bullets for both would mean, scientifically, that the characteristics of both would improve. The 9mm will always remain a .38 (technically .355/.356) with a short case and the .45acp will always remain a .45 with a short case....and larger primers with larger powder space in the larger shell providing more push behind the heavier and thicker bullet.
One thing that always gets me, is when the 9mm talk bad about the .38 special....LOL there really isn't any difference at all between the two. Look up load data and both can run velocities in the 1300+ fps range with 100-114gr bullets....both can shoot 158gr bullets...the .38spc can also shoot 180gr vs 9mm that can't...but they are the same ballistics wise more or less and yet the 9mm people often 'poo poo' the .38spc.
Note: I'm not saying the 9mm or the .38spc aren't good calibers and don't have their place. I just don't believe they compare to the .45acp in any way.
Yes I have read about the movement back to 9mm for law enforcement, due to the greater accuracy from the shooter not flinching from the lite weight guns in 40 s&w.
I know in Delaware anyway the state police carry Sig pistols .357 sigs. I can also covert the Glock G40 I have to .357 sig or 40 s&w for around $100 each from lonewolf. I have even run a mag of 40 s&w in the 10mm barrel, its just shorter like running .38's in a .357 mag.....but its not recommended due to the extracter holding the case in place.
Quote from: mart on February 18, 2016, 11:24:41 PM
However there are some shooters for whom even a 38 is more than they want to handle. I would rather see a person carrying a 22 or 32 that they are completely comfortable and competent with than a 38 or more powerful they are afraid to fire. Granted the folks who find a 38 to be too much are few, but they do exist.
I have to disagree on one point. Long ago it was said that according to the records, a 22mag has the same knockdown power as a .38. Of course we can argue over some of the details of that claim, but I think a good choice for someone that finds the .38 too much, a 22mag is a great option.
I love my KelTec PMR30. It is a full sized gun so it may not be right for some smaller people but the round is impressive. 31 rounds available in one load, is also a plus for me. It is also claimed to be a round that LEO isn't comfortable with because the 22mag "can" go through some vests. (Good thing I'm on the right side). When I need small, I carry a 22mag derringer I've owned and carried both legally and illegally for 35 years.
If the .22mag has the same power as a .38spc it also has the same power as the 9mm....just sayin' ;)
A .22 mag from a 2" barrel is barely making 80 ft lbs of energy some just slightly over 40 ft lbs. Now .22 mag from a 19" rifle, thats better then 350 ft lbs. .38 special 2" around 120 -175 ft lbs, 16" 410-520 ft lbs.
I do like my 45, no guessing with it. ;D
Quote from: Peter Drouin on May 16, 2016, 06:24:53 AM
I do like my 45, no guessing with it. ;D
Yes, agree 100%!
In a "shootout" it is my opinion that "wounding" is NOT an option
Mogadishu drill
Quote from: Carson-saws on May 24, 2016, 09:34:10 AMIn a "shootout" it is my opinion that "wounding" is NOT an option
Wounding? I like my chances with my 5" 22mag with 31 rounds and almost no recoil. I can hit my target reliably and I can't imagine having any complaints. I'm just saying.
And even if you don't hit them with that .22 mag the report from the gun will cause them to go deaf.
I figure I am going to find a extra large hardwood tree and hide behind it while the shootings going on. ;)
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 25, 2016, 01:18:39 PM
And even if you don't hit them with that .22 mag the report from the gun will cause them to go deaf.
just get a 460 and all you have to do is shoot close ;D :D :D :D
.460 s&w....waste of time, just go with a .50 bmg pistol. One shot you take out your target, there vehicle, a brick wall 3 houses and someone else's car. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/10/50-bmg-single-shot-handgun/
went with the 460 mag because of the ammo it will shoot 45 colt 454 casual and the 460
after shooting the 460 there is no way i would shoot the 50 bmg no_no besides it only holds 3 shots :) ( if you believe everything on the internet i have never seen one ;D )
I also recall seeing a 45-70 5 shot revolver somewhere online too....it could have been 4 rds...but if you can't take it out with the 1st rd of 45-70 its allowed to eat you.
:D :D :D i agree with you on that :D :D :D
If something is gonna eat you, save the last shot for yourself. :o
:D :D Slim, a late neighbor and good friend of ours always said "if a bear ever comes after me I've got him for 50 yards, then I'll have to turn around and fight, 50 yards is all I got" :D. He was very obese but I think he might of won the fight.
Raider Bill.... :D like your answer but....you can run..but ya can't hide
Just my 2 cents..... I used to love to carry large caliber pistol for CCW. But now i am a huge fan of a 380. I would not trade my sig p238 for anything only problem is if i need it its so comfortable i may forget its there.. Also i have a bersa thunder 380. Its great too, single double action and even has a decocking lever. I own alot of pistols and i shoot my bersas the best. The 380, 9mm both are great. Just picked up a keltec 22 mag. This is a great gun. still carry my sig 380 everyday..
I like the Bersa thunder 380 also. A good shooter and a light weight carry.
A couple of years ago I bought a Ruger LCR in .357 mag. It weighs one pound, so it gets carried a lot and works well for backpacking.
Most often the "manly" gun - Ruger LCP. ;D ;D
GP100 for backpacking and bowhunting.
I was doing a timber survey in SE Alaska back in 1980. I was working in an area full of salmon streams, with a high density of bears. I ran into a set of tracks made by one of the coastal browns that was a foot across. I looked down at the Ruger SBH .44 mag on my hip and just about wet my pants. I carried rifles after that. We saw bears every day, but most were black bears. The coastal browns were not that hard to deal with as long as they were well fed.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 26, 2016, 12:57:03 PM
I also recall seeing a 45-70 5 shot revolver somewhere online too....it could have been 4 rds...but if you can't take it out with the 1st rd of 45-70 its allowed to eat you.
B F R 5 shot and I'm not big enough to shoot it :D
For a woods gun, there is always the possibility of an argument with a bear or moose. Even in the Eas,t a .357 mag ought to be the minimum caliber. In the West, I carry a smith 629 in .44 mag a lot. For Alaska and BC a rifle is much better. I like the modern .45/70 and carry a Marlin.
No discussion of carrying firearms in the woods without mention of understanding how to act around wildlife. If you are running a saw they are going to be aware of your presence. Cruising or surveying are examples of quiet stealthy activities where you many be focused on the timber or task at hand. Part of your brain needs to focus on situational awareness. It is important to make noise and let them know you are coming. Especially around riparian areas, thickets and places with low visibility. I like to sing in a loud voice. Working in Alaska in Sitka spruce and western hemlock the area received 150 inches of rain a year. It is so thick that the average bear sighting is less than 50 yards, often much less. If they know you are there, the chances of startling one is much less. Use your brain and the chances of needing a firearm are much reduced. Bear spray is a great thing to have on your belt ready to use in tight quarters. My personal opinion is that a .380 or 9mm is really a bad idea in a close wildlife encounter.
well said PP.
At what point do we split this topic up and form a woods carry and concealed carry, or is it not worth it?
since this is a Forestry Forum, concealed carry should be not important at all.
Texas has open carry, I am not a fan of that, so, in the woods, I carry concealed. My employer of the day may not care to see an armed individual on his property. Or his neighbors, or the sheriffs patrol.....just saying.
I don't know (or can't remember) if this has been posted or not. I ran across it earlier today and thought it was very well written:
"I stand behind you in line at the store with a smile on my face...and a gun under my shirt and you are none the wiser, yet you are safer for having me next to you. I won't shoot you. My gun won't pull it's own trigger. It is securely holstered with the trigger covered. It can't just go off. However, rest assured that if a lunatic walks into the grocery store and pulls out a rifle, I will draw my pistol and protect myself and my family and therefore protect you and your family. I may get shot before I can pull the trigger...but, I won't die in a helpless blubbering heap on the floor begging for my life. No, if I die it will be in a pile of spent shell casings. I won't be that victim. I choose not to be. As for you, I don't ask you to carry a gun. If you are not comfortable, then please don't. But I would like to keep my right to choose to not be a helpless victim. There is evil in the world and if evil has a gun, I want one too..."
Bruce
Well said Bruce thats just the way i feel
thats exactly right what the gun control folks are missing is that if the criminals followed the laws they wouldnt be criminals :) so if they wont follow the laws we have now why should we think the would follow new gun laws ??? taking them away from law abiding citizens would only make the problem worse :-\
This thread appears to have positioned itself ideally for a question I've had for quite some time. I read the news daily. Why is it never (seemingly) reported that an armed, concealed or open carry, citizen stopped a bad guy committing a gun related public assault? Off duty Officer, check; fellow unarmed passengers, check; homeowner during an invasion, check; security guard, check; etc...
Easy answer, the press is run by the anti-gun persons and it doesn't suit there soap box to preach concealed carry or the benefits of it. I try not to preach my personal views on the media/political party that backs them. In Australia when they took their guns the crime rate went up 90%, cause they only took the guns from the law abiding citizens.
if england had gun laws here when this place was colonized it wouldnt be the U S A ;D
Quote from: square1 on June 13, 2016, 02:24:20 PM
This thread appears to have positioned itself ideally for a question I've had for quite some time. I read the news daily. Why is it never (seemingly) reported that an armed, concealed or open carry, citizen stopped a bad guy committing a gun related public assault? Off duty Officer, check; fellow unarmed passengers, check; homeowner during an invasion, check; security guard, check; etc...
NRA magazines have always a page dedicated to stories like that:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/6/13/the-armed-citizen-june-13-2016/
our local news will run a story like that every once in a while :) a couple of month ago a guy that worked in liquor store had an attempted robbery he pulled his pistol and shot several times at the thief and missed every shot but the thief took off running and was later caught by police :) it was a very funny interview when the tv news interviewed him he said i never could hit **** with a pistol :D :D :D
and some other stuff :D :D :D 20 yrs ago or so i worked with the guy when we both worked at the fertilize plant and he is a real nice guy and very funny to be around anyway :) this happen about 15 miles from my house ::)
An armed society is a polite society.
Quote from: square1 on June 13, 2016, 02:24:20 PM
This thread appears to have positioned itself ideally for a question I've had for quite some time. I read the news daily. Why is it never (seemingly) reported that an armed, concealed or open carry, citizen stopped a bad guy committing a gun related public assault? Off duty Officer, check; fellow unarmed passengers, check; homeowner during an invasion, check; security guard, check; etc...
The NRA magazines have a section called The Armed Citizen where they highlight just that.
A couple of weekends ago I came upon a rattlesnake rather abruptly. This was the first one that actually rattled at me. He was coiled up and I put my first 2 shots in the same place, right between the coils. I could see the dirt fly underneath him. I made a slight adjustment and the next shot cut him in half. Pan fried rattler is goooood.
so I'm thinkin about getting either a S&W Governor or the Taurus Judge. Each one will take .410 shot shells or .45 long colt. Anyone have input or these hand guns?
You can get shotshell ammo for a handgun. I make my own, but it can be bought.
Works on snakes, rats, you name it.
Admin. photo edit, refer to forum posting rules.
Channel Two news out of Houston regularly carries self defense stories, but this is Texas ;D
I'd go with rat shot for a normal handgun.
Billy has a Judge, I'm not impressed for what it cost.
when i was a kid w used to love shooting bumble bees (actually carpenter bees i guess) with our 22 long rifle revolvers and rat shot :) dont worry very few bees were ever harmed :-\ :D :D :D
Ratshot, I like it!!!
Quote from: sandsawmill14 on June 14, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
when i was a kid w used to love shooting bumble bees (actually carpenter bees i guess) with our 22 long rifle revolvers and rat shot :) dont worry very few bees were ever harmed :-\ :D :D :D
That's a normal pass time at the tenn house or was until we ran out of rat shot. Got 17 in 1 day
I know someone who shoots carpenter bees on the wing with a Red Ryder BB gun, and another that uses a squirt bottle filled with lye.
We used to use .22 rat shot on cicada killers back on my grandfathers farm, for bumblebees we used wiffle ball bats and tennis racket. Wiffle ball bats work great on lightning bugs too.
when we were kids my Dad let us shoot in the basement. When we ran out of .22s we shot bb guns. We used to have a spotlight on the target. I vividly remember a fly landing on the target and my brother wet his finger and touched the front sight like Davy Crockett. Then he splattered the fly with one BB from 40 feet. We learned later that he had 20/15 vision.
I thought that was Sargent York that would wet down his front sight with spit on his thumb...
Quote from: Weekend_Sawyer on June 14, 2016, 10:39:16 AM
A couple of weekends ago I came upon a rattlesnake rather abruptly. This was the first one that actually rattled at me. He was coiled up and I put my first 2 shots in the same place, right between the coils. I could see the dirt fly underneath him. I made a slight adjustment and the next shot cut him in half. Pan fried rattler is goooood.
so I'm thinkin about getting either a S&W Governor or the Taurus Judge. Each one will take .410 shot shells or .45 long colt. Anyone have input or these hand guns?
I have looked at and shot both, and I own the Governor. Takes 45 ACP with a clip device so makes it reasonable to shoot, the judge can't use 45 ACP. Either one will work, but I like the Governor better for fit and finish and the action is smoother. As I posted in another thread-a carjacker will have time to learn brail when in jail after a meeting with a 410 in the face.
Dave Shepard.....did he shoot his eye out with that Red Rider?
Not that I know of. I've never been a fan of bb guns because of ricochet. I never had one when I was a kid. I started on .22
The good old days with cheap .22 ammo available anywhere :'(
York learned that trick from Davy.