This fall i picked up a passepartout tracked vehicle. A friend of mine was a dealer for them back in the early 70's. They were made in Valcartier Quebec in the late 60' 70's and were being made for the military for use in Vietnam. Well the war ended and they had a bunch of these machines with no place to go. The company then started to look for tractor and implement dealers to sell them. The term "Passepartout" means go anywhere,anytime!! ;D They were later made in Alberta Canada until 1980 then were made in Northern Michigan from 1980 thru 1983.They are a pretty neat little vehicle and were a bit ahead of their time in my opinion. Mine has a 500 cc rotax engine but the original ones used a 340 sach,or 399 cc CCW. Anyone here have one or any parts for them let me know, I think mine is a bit overpowered and will do about 50 MPH !!!!! heres a few pictures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/161473515_yAKn6hZG_ppt_0310sm.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/161473515_yAKn6hZG_ppt_0310sm.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/161546710_1we9LbVP_IMG_1425sm.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/162042634_JqIa3Q41_IMG_4215sm.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/162042635_wltz5U7K_IMG_4217sm.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/162042636_QXtVKNog_IMG_4219sm.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29767/162042637_H6OK4glQ_IMG_4222sm.jpg)
as you can see being a 2 stroke she smokes a bit when first started !!! ;D ;D
I want one :)
Never heard of them let alone seen one. Where were they made in N. Michigan ???
You seem to have a nose for finding oddball machinery. ;D ;D
You have the best toys. 8)
Don
You have some nice finds and do a great job fixing them back up .
I was up your way last Friday afternoon at Sam 's place .
Jim
They were made in Lavonia mich. Cant rember the co name at this moment! the owner died in 1983 and so did the passepartout production.
Jim,You should have dropped in! I just got to get a fat santa suit and use the PPT and terrorize the neighborhood, maybe Jeff will let me use his santa hat! ;D ;D Heres a link to a little more info.
http://snowgoer.com/snowmobiling-features/a-go-anywhere-machine-the-passepartout/
Thats awesome. Do you give museum tours? 8)
I have never seen or heard of one. How are they in snow,like a snow mobile??
They dont really have big cleats,but i remember they went pretty well,if we ever get any snow i will find out ! ;D
I would like to come to your house next summer and check out your gold if that would be ok I like looking at old and odd things and finding out the history on them are you going to repaint it or leave it the rotex and the ccw are/where great motors the sach I was never impressed by ccw stands for continental Curtis wright right ;D
I like your toys. :)
nice, and the look on your face explains a lot. :D :D
Are you taking adoption applications? I work hard and am a fair mechanic.
That is really neat and I love smokey 2 strokes!
I probably wont paint it,I dont even know how long i will own it! The grandson of my friend who was the dealer for them has been looking for one for a long time,i dont know how long i can fend him off.I was thinking it would work great with a wheeled logging arch behind it. ;D
You always find the coolest treasures !
Is the blue machine the same brand?
The Blue machine is a Raidtrac model 1800,they are made in Alberta Canada,they also make a smaller machine just like the PPT, called a playcat,a model 613 and 618. Heres a link with pictures.
www.raidtrac.com
That is awesome Don!
Rich,Yup just waiting on cold weather and snow !! ;D
I figured this was a discussion about Phineas Fogg's butler in "Around the World in Eighty Days". Interesting machine.
Wow! I want one. I love older, not common stuff like that. I collected a David bradley tri trac but nowhere near as neat as that.
Don did the Passe steer by brake, clutch or both. There was one near me but the fellow sold it before I knew anything about them. I own a Valmont double track snowmobile but I always wanted a skid steer two track vehicle for snow and soft ground. Missed a J5 20 years ago as well.
Quote from: coxy on December 08, 2015, 07:44:31 PM
I would like to come to your house next summer and check out your gold if that would be ok I like looking at old and odd things and finding out the history on them are you going to repaint it or leave it the rotex and the ccw are/where great motors the sach I was never impressed by ccw stands for continental Curtis wright right ;D
CCW stood for Canadian Curtiss Wright, they were a major manufacturer of aircraft and engines for early snowmobiles.
The machine has a clutch,brake assembly for each track.when you turn the handles in one direction it first disengages the clutch then turning harder applies a disc brake to lock up the track on the side you are turning the handles toward.Turn the handle left you go left,to the right you go right .
Simple design, but effective! Very cool!
Thanks Don.
Loggah, One just showed up on maine craigslist in Thomaston maine! You might have to take a road trip!
Woodhauler you should find out what they want for it.
I just checked it out! :D pretty much a parts machine,long way to go for me,surprised they didn't post a price!! ;D ;D
I just talked with the owner, Says he wants $600 for it,but i think now hes thinking about putting a engine in it ! ;D
What is a reasonable condition running machine worth.
Quote from: loggah on January 02, 2016, 12:10:22 PM
I just checked it out! :D pretty much a parts machine,long way to go for me,surprised they didn't post a price!! ;D ;D
Just think of the nice people you could meet up here! Those herring chokers down in Thomaston will take about half that cash!! I haul down there 3 days a week or so!
To close to a prison for me ;D altho i do like sardines ;D ;DI would think a running machine in fair shape would be worth around $1500,one in excellent up to $3000
Thanks again Don.
Don,
Did you have this when I came out? My brother had one back in the day and I think I know where it is if your interested.
Nope,i didn't have it then. Give me a shout if you find any info on it !!!! :)
That thing is awesome!!! Do they have a lot of pulling power or is it more of just a cool ride?
They pull pretty good,but if you want to work it a lot ,i would suggest putting cleats of some sort on the tracks.
Thanks
You asked, "Who has one". Well, actually, I do. I bought it last summer and this winter I have been using it to gather sap with mixed results. It has a Sachs sa340 engine on it. Sometimes it works well - especially if I have just done some maintenance thing. Other times, it works well for a while several minutes then gradually starts to slow down and eventually won't run at all.
It certainly does "Go over everything" and I love being able to get right next to each of my (20) trees.
Anyway, I live "just down the road" in Meredith. We should definitely coordinate our efforts. For example, I have some manuals, etc. which I would be happy to share. Also, a few contacts that I have managed to find around the country.
I am new at the forum stuff. Although I am a real "Computer Geek", I have not participated in forums prior to this. This is the first one I have found that I thought was worth it.
Welcome to the forum ppt man
;D You and Jerry are just down the road or sure,probably 15 miles as the crow flys,30 by road !!! I'm thinking one of you guys probably owns the PPT that Scotty Pulsifer used to own when he lived at White Oak pond ! They are amazing little machines,lots of fun. Mine has a 500 Rotax transplanted in it,but they also came with the 399 CCW engine. I would re-power the Sach machine with a newer good engine,even the later ones used a 4 cycle engine instead of a 2 stroke. Don
Welcome to the Forum PPT_Man. I'm wondering if I know you. There can't be that many people in Meredith who are also interested in PPTs and just recently joined. You wouldn't also happen to be an island-dwelling Coot fanatic, would you?
(EDIT) - I just heard back. Turns out there are two Passepartout fans in Meredith. The one on the island who is also a Coot fan is my brother-in-law. Maybe I'll meet you sometime when I'm out visiting him one of these days.
Just read this thread! Loggah, once again you have created such an interesting thread. Thank you!
PPT man welcome!
I predict after posting this thread my chances of finding another cheap PPT are nill !!!!! ;D ;D ;D I
Quote from: loggah on March 16, 2016, 07:47:33 AM
I predict after posting this thread my chances of finding another cheap PPT are nill !!!!! ;D ;D ;D I
Well, at least one of those interested in a PPT in your area already owns one. The other one is my brother-in law, 2islandboy, also in Meredith (just joined the FF yesterday), and I believe he knows PPT_Man. He's probably contacting you, if he hasn't already.
Is there a Passepartout owners group on the web anywhere? I know the Coot owners group has been a huge help to me as I've been working on my Coots.
John, I know your brother -in-law from the scrapyard, and he also bought a hovercraft a few years back from my brother, small world ! ;D
I'm not surprised at where you know him from a scrapyard. Jerry (2islandboy) is a hardcore scrounger. Whenever he visits us here in VT, he has to make a tour of the area scrapyards to see what they've got.
Ours had a snowmobile centrifugal clutch. I don't think it would hold up to heavy hauling but that was along time ago... We did use it to haul a keg of beer up a mountain once though. Threw a track off at the top but it got the job done...
Well, you guys - great detectives that you are - have figured us out. Jerry and I are good friends. Went to college together - same school, same major, same year. Neither has any recollection of the other from then, but we now live within sight of each other. A real coincidence.
My PPT has a Sachs SA 340 engine on it with a Tillotson HD17A carburetor. It is currently dead. Next step is to haul it home and try (another) carburetor rebuild. I think the flow control valve is miss-adjusted. Does anybody have any experience with these things?
One question is that the Sachs Manual says the engine is designed for the HD 13A and I have an HD 17A. Anyone have any opinions on how this should work? Do I really need to chase down an HD 17A.
When I first got the machine, it did not run at all. I took it to a guy who fixed it and it ran fine for quite a while. Then started running rough. When through a total of about 3 - 5 gallons of gas before it quit. I replaced the plug and it ran file for a while - maybe a gallon or two then the same thing happened. Replaced the plug this morning and again it ran fine and then quit after maybe 10 minutes of operation.
The reason I want to try rebuilding the carb is that gasoline drips out of the air intake after choking to start. Makes me think the float control valve needs to be adjusted. I figure it is easy enough for ME to try the rebuild - easier than hauling it to someone. After that, I will do the hauling. Who knows of experts on this stuff?
Jerry is quite the tinkerer, as you probably have found out by now. If he can't figure it out, he probably knows someone who can.
Have you considered replacing the engine altogether I thought I read somewhere n my brief research that people had problems with some of the early Sachs engines in these things. I forget what was mentioned for engines used in other models, but I think one of them was a Rotax? (Unfortunately, I'll probably never find that excellent history of Passepartouts that I was reading earlier).
I talked with some of my friends who used to have Rupp snowmobiles back in the 70,s with 340 sach motors .They said they had a bunch of trouble with them vapor locking,and that was in the winter !!! The Passepartout used a 399 CCW,canadian curtis wright engine also, the moto-ski snowmobiles used them also. I'm thinking one of those CCW engines may be easy to find to replace the Sach. Don
Those symptoms on a regular car/truck engine I would look for a leaking and gas soaked carb float.
Just my guess :)
I've had my hands on a few PPT but have never driven one.
Quote from: PPT_Man on March 22, 2016, 05:44:51 PM
Well, you guys - great detectives that you are - have figured us out. Jerry and I are good friends. Went to college together - same school, same major, same year. Neither has any recollection of the other from then, but we now live within sight of each other. A real coincidence.
My PPT has a Sachs SA 340 engine on it with a Tillotson HD17A carburetor. It is currently dead. Next step is to haul it home and try (another) carburetor rebuild. I think the flow control valve is miss-adjusted. Does anybody have any experience with these things?
One question is that the Sachs Manual says the engine is designed for the HD 13A and I have an HD 17A. Anyone have any opinions on how this should work? Do I really need to chase down an HD 17A.
When I first got the machine, it did not run at all. I took it to a guy who fixed it and it ran fine for quite a while. Then started running rough. When through a total of about 3 - 5 gallons of gas before it quit. I replaced the plug and it ran file for a while - maybe a gallon or two then the same thing happened. Replaced the plug this morning and again it ran fine and then quit after maybe 10 minutes of operation.
The reason I want to try rebuilding the carb is that gasoline drips out of the air intake after choking to start. Makes me think the float control valve needs to be adjusted. I figure it is easy enough for ME to try the rebuild - easier than hauling it to someone. After that, I will do the hauling. Who knows of experts on this stuff?
there is no float in a tilloson carb. there a lever attached to the needle that should be horizontal with the carb body. a rebuild kit should help. the high and low speed adjustment on the carb should be at least 1 turn out. fuel is also a coolant in a 2 stroke. there will be some spit back from the carb when running thats normal with a piston port 2 stroke. it is a 40 year old motor. i can remember moto ski using them in 1971. a big upgrade would be to replace the motor with a more modern one. my choice would be a polaris fan cooled motor. and clutch. i am guessing your machine has a salbursy clutch??if so they are pretty crude compared to newer stuff. a newer motor along with the primary and secondary clutch would completely change it for the better
IF the PPTs use the variable ratio Salisbury clutches (I always thought of them more as a torque converter), most of these were speed sensitive - they changed the drive ratio depending on the RPMs of the engine. It was a decent way to allow a greater range of speeds on the machine, and allow for some torque while the engine was at low RPMs (where gas engines suffer in the torque department). There were two problems with these: 1) the clutch's grip on the belt was proportional to engine RPM, and they would slip at lower speeds, and 2) when pulling a heavy load, you'd really like the low-gear drive ratio that you get at low RPMs, but you'd also like the engine running at higher RPMs, so you have higher engine torque available AND the "low gear" from the drive ratio of the clutch. (This often was not so big a deal for a recreational snow mobile, which don't tend to tow heavy loads).
There are alternatives available that are drop in replacements that are Torque Sensing. I replaced the speed sensing Salisbury clutch on my Coot with a torque sensing clutch. It was night and day. I can see the belt ratio change as I speed up, but then change back again as I start up hill, while the engine keeps up it's higher RPMs. I almost don't need the low gear in the transmission anymore. On the heavier loads, it has changed me from "I can probably pull that" to "sure, no problem". (Of course, heavy for a Coot is a relative term, and the brake is a little wimpy thing, so stopping that load on a downhill slope can be an adventure.)
I highly recommend looking in to the torque sensing clutches if you need to pull loads and have an old speed sensing Salisbury clutch that you need to replace. I got mine from Quality Drive Systems
Of course, all this is a moot point if PPTs don't use this type of drive system.
Thanks for the suggestions from the last 4 postings. I am aware of the lever that my Tillotson Carb has instead of a float. In fact, adjusting that slightly is first on my list of things to try. Carburetor has been totally cleaned and rebuilt several times over the last 6 months - several time by me and once by a guy down the road who actually knows what he is doing.
Second on my list of things to try is to haul the machine back to him to see if he has any other good ideas. The machine ran very well for several hours after the first time he fixed it.
I hate to replace the Sachs sa340 before I am sure that I have to, since it initially ran very well. It has a very nice electric start system. Do any of you know any Central NH "old timers" (in other words, probably guys about my age) who have experience with the Sachs engines?
Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the Tillotson HD 17A carb that I have on my Sachs is an OK replacement for the Tillotson HD 13A carb that was supposed to have come with the machine.
I also appreciate the idea about replacing the Transmission / Clutch system. I definitely have the old style and like the man says, it works great on level ground but opposite of the way I want it to when I am going over a steep obstacle. But there is no point in replacing the Transmission / Clutch system until I get engine performing reliably.
By the way, the PPT is AWESOME for gathering maple sap - at least for my 25 taps. It get me right next to the trees and it has lots of payload capacity. I have no trouble at all rigging it to carry 35 gallons of sap and it hauls it up the hill with no trouble. Also it moves relatively fast from my home to the sugarbush since the tracks smooth out the roughness in what I use for a road.
I'm the last person to ask about engine repairs, but I think the Sachs engine was used in some snowmobiles from the same era. You might try asking at some of the snowmobile shops (there is an ATV/snowmobile/motorcycle place near me with a service guy who has a real interest in the older models - not that that does you much good)
I agree with waiting on the transmission. I just mentioned it in case yours was on it's last legs. You can probably get the same thing as original, but there is no reason to. If you do need to do it, let me know and I'll dig up the contact info for the guy I spoke at QDS. He is very knowledgable about them.
the old hd carbs that skidoo used had a screw on fuel filter instead of the plastic cover where the fuel line goes. my guess would be why the different #. i had several sleds with hr and hd carbs that was a long time ago. i also would assume that motor has points. point gap also controls timing. so you set the timing using a ohm meter to tell you when the points break that needs to line up with the timing marks. has anyone checked compression ? crank seals? sometimes a shredded drive belt would take out the seal. dose this machine have reverse?? if not with a modern motor you could have electronic reverse. push the button and the motor runs backwards. would also need the drive clutch and roller driven
I have owned lots of old Ski doos and some had an inline filter with an adapter plate at the bottom of the carb. You could choose which type to put on if you had an adapter around. I was happy when they switched to Mikuni carbs from the Tillotson. Not much regular maintenance on a Mikuni.
Quote from: r.man on March 25, 2016, 09:38:35 PM
I have owned lots of old Ski doos and some had an inline filter with an adapter plate at the bottom of the carb. You could choose which type to put on if you had an adapter around. I was happy when they switched to Mikuni carbs from the Tillotson. Not much regular maintenance on a Mikuni.
a mikuni is 50 years ahead of a tillotson. a lot of motors burned down with tillotson carbs and the owner that like to lean them out a little to much
Any suggestions on a Mikuni for a PPT Sachs, SA340 ?
Quote from: 2islandboy on March 27, 2016, 07:58:30 AM
Any suggestions on a Mikuni for a PPT Sachs, SA340 ?
Finding one of those adapter plates might be handy as well.
Quote from: 2islandboy on March 27, 2016, 07:58:30 AM
Any suggestions on a Mikuni for a PPT Sachs, SA340 ?
a mikuni is a much better carb. thats why everyone uses them. but did sachs ever use one? finding the carb mount might not be that hard. if they did and you could get the specs all would be easy. the older mics used round slides now thats out of style and flatslide is in. you would need to know the size 32 or 34mm should be real close. then what cut away in the slide and the needle size clip position, piolt jet main jet. a new throttle cable choke cable. its not really a choke its an enrichner. thats why i say buy a newer motor. a used motor out of a sled 4 to 500 maybe...maybe less
I've heard of some PPTs using a Kohler engine. Not sure if this was from the factory or a conversion someone did. A PPT history I read made reference to a 4 cycle engine in the later models.
Hard to tell for sure from the videos, but the Kohler sure seemed quieter than the other options (or at least the pitch of the sound was much less annoying).
in loggah's pictures on page one his has mikuni carb
Quote from: snowstorm on March 28, 2016, 06:11:21 AM
in loggah's pictures on page one his has mikuni carb
But that's on a 500cc Rotax