Hi everyone, not sure if I'm in the right place to ask but I was wondering if anyone would have some general knowledge about Christmas trees and what the industry is like. My dad and I are looking at five acres of land that is just up the road from our house that has been an on/ off Christmas tree farm since the 1970's. I just would like to know some of the basic facts about the business and what I should know in order to write a business plan before going to the bank. The farm right now has multiple age ranges of trees, with the most recently planted trees being planted about two years ago according to the owner of it now. It is a mix of Fraser fir and balsam sort of spread throughout the property with no real General layout. Yet again not sure if I'm in the right place but I would really enjoy hearing some or your guys suggestions/ comments. My dad and I are going to walk the property tomorrow morning so tomorrow I should be able to give you a more in depth review of what the property looks like and what the condition and age of the trees are. Thanks to everyone who responds and I hope everyone enjoys a happy new year.
Hard to answer that with the info given.
Click on your forum name, and it will take you to where you can update your profile and add at least your location. Helps to know, especially when such a question is asked. And I'm sure, if you read other posts on the forum that it is very helpful to also know the posters' location. ;)
Thanks for mentioning something I completely looked over as important information that people would need to know to help me. I updated my profile so now I believe I have everything filled out properly. As for my location, I live in Glover Vermont which is part of the "north east kingdom" for those who might be familiar with the northern region of Vermont. Thank you again for helping me fill out the information. If there is any other information that anyone of you needs or think I should include just let me know and I'd be happy to try my best to provide you with it. Happy new year all, Riley.
Do you love Christmas?
Do you really really really love Christmas?
More than any other day?
Those are the folks that I see that are successful in the Christmas tree business - at least at the retail level.
Wholesale: - unlikely on 5 acres. Very tight margin business.
Retail: - cut trees brought to a retail lot, depends on location and amount of competition.
Specialty trees: to high value markets - hotels and businesses, with big perfect trees delivered and set up.
Mail order: It's being done, but I know little about it.
Choose and cut - the folks that really really really love Christmas, can work on 5 acres.
Christmas trees are a floral green rather than a "tree". They need to be shaped, and coddled, and just about perfect to sell at a margin that makes sense. They need maintenance all year, every year until harvested.
Choose and Cut farms are as much about the experience as they are about the tree. Hay rides, hot cocoa, parking, clean restrooms, friendly helpful staff ... For the Choose and Cut business to succeed, you need families returning every year, along with new customers. Related sidelines, wreaths, stands, ornaments and decorations, food help some growers over the hump.
Your retail season is the 3 weekends after Thanksgiving. It's too dark after work on weekdays. Bad weather on any of those days means a challenging season. Being close to the Interstate is helpful, especially if you are near an exit. Being far away from a major town or attraction limits your market.
The New Hampshire - Vermont Christmas tree Association puts their newsletter online. Look through some back issues to see what they think is important. I have always found Christmas Tree Growers to be friendly and supportive of each other.
http://www.nh-vtchristmastree.org
Happy New Year, and good luck if you choose to move forward.
If you saw our house during Christmas your question would be answered very quickly haha. Christmas is the biggest event of the whole year here. And that's part of the reason why my dad and I started looking at the property in the first place. As to answer your question about proximity to the interstate, it is about two miles from the interstate and it is situated on the main route to get through town (route 16)
I don't know anything about growing Christmas trees...but if it takes 7 years to grow an average size tree then it means 1/7th of your trees are ready to harvest every year. If you plant them in at 1K trees per acre then you will be able to harvest ~700 trees/year. Can you sell that many in the beginning and will your business outgrow that supply? Difficult questions to answer but something that will have to be dealt with in the future.
Clark
Yes, contact the Vermont and New Hampshire Christmas Tree Association and your local Extension Service. They should be able to provide you with a wealth of information on Christmas Tree Production and provide you with the contact of the local expert in Christmas Tree production for your area. 5 acres would not provide for a large commercial operation, but might provide you with a hobby farm operation. Have the area's soil analyzed to determine the most favorable species for the site.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree_cultivation
Welcome to the forum, good to see fellow Vermonters on here.
I don't know much about Christmas trees, but the sugar maple trees, I know some stuff about them ;)
My grandparents have a camp on Daniels pond.
I would like to thank everyone who responded with information and links to websites and helped me figure out what there was to the Christmas tree business. But, I am sad to inform everyone that my dad and I will not be going forward on buying the property due to the seller advertising the property as five acres when, after looking at the map of the property and doing some calculations, it is in fact only about three acres. This caused my dad and I both to agree that for the price it was not worth it to go forward with the purchase. Thank you again to everyone who commented
That's too bad. I saw your age and thought you have a good head on your shoulders - well written posts with insightful questions. Don't see that often in someone so young. Are you shying away from the property because of the price or the diminished size of the lot? If the price, would it be workable if the price was 3/5 of their original (or your estimated) price? If so, you can always make an offer. Worst case, they say "no".
Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 02, 2016, 10:08:23 AM
That's too bad. I saw your age and thought you have a good head on your shoulders - well written posts with insightful questions. Don't see that often in someone so young. Are you shying away from the property because of the price or the diminished size of the lot? If the price, would it be workable if the price was 3/5 of their original (or your estimated) price? If so, you can always make an offer. Worst case, they say "no".
Thank you for the compliment haha. And as for the price we offered him what he paid for it originally when he bought it. That was when we thought it was the true five acres, so I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't take the offer of 3/5 the price. But my dad is already looking at other properties and found one about the same distance away from our house as the previous one that is more acreage for probably about the same price so it might just work out better than we had previously thought haha.
I don't know anything about growing christmas trees, but when I was your age up till I got out of school, I would cut several semi loads a year off the family mountain property.
I would hate to try to make a living out of it, or pay for property, but it was a shot in the arm for that time of year and paid well for the short time we had in it.
This was in northern New Mexico, and marketing was no problem, we always had buyers seeking us out, as quite a few trees came from that valley.
I have a hard time seeing how those in the Christmas tree industry make a living. That tree has to be pruned once or twice a year for 8-10 years, fertilized and marketed all for a wholesale price of let's say $20 for arguments sake. Can't see much margin there. I think many if not most growers have other businesses to subsidize the tree growing side. One upside I can see to a choose and cut would be that it is largely a cash based business.
I am a christmas tree grower in the PNW and have been doing it for 25 + years. I do it part time as part of my farm/ranch income. Lots of different ways to do it, but the most money made from doing your own retail, be it a small local tree lot or possible to do a choose and cut on the farm.
As Ron S and others have said, local extension and christmas tree associations are good place to start.
You might do a web search of the following report - a 30 page pdf file
report # CM-SN-05
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA COOPERATIVE EXTENSION 2005
"SAMPLE COSTS TO PRODUCE CHRISTMAS TREES - Choose and cut tree farm"
It is long and detailed but gives you some really good info to learn about ALL the costs.
Good Luck Tom
I grew up with a hobby christmas tree farm at my parents place. It was probably about 5-10 acres planted. My dad even did some of the "flocked" trees where you make white, blue, whatever. Its not a bad deal and gets you into some of the "farm" tax breaks. It really helps out the finances during a stressful time of year as well. We did Chose and cut as well as put a some out on a rope by the road pre-cut. Some of the smaller roadside guys would also buy some for a few bucks off to try and turn a profit. You can get rid of your uglier trees this way. :D I always hated mowing them in the summer and shearing the trees to shape them. I really developed a life long fear of bees. I wouldnt mind getting back into the business but too many other irons in the fire.
I live on a 100 acre Choose and Cut farm. I don't have anything to do with Christmas trees anymore.
I so glad it's over. Very hard work and it takes up all your time. With 100 acres we need to hire help.
The only time we was not busy was in the winter after Christmas was done. It's takes around 12 plus
years to grow a tree. You cant grow some types of tree together ( like spruce and Douglas).
You need to apply for pesticide license. You need storage and tractors and wagons and spray equipment
and much more. You need to like the bees and snakes and the cold and heat and people stealing your trees.
Never again ...
I'm done with that headache. All 100 acres of tree was just left go and are now 30-40 ft. tall.
I would be glad to answer any questions you have.
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What are your plans now? A clearing and chipping operation? Many have gone that route here after they have let their plantations go wild.
My cousin lives off Christmas trees, probably 200 acres. You'd wonder. But there are some young families around here calling themselves farmers and producing far less and haven't lost their farms. Miracle workers I've been told. ;D
There is a big grower up here called Snokist that does Christmas trees on several hundred acres, which I know is actually in the thousands. Hey, 35 hundred is thousands ain't it? ;)
This year was especially good according to the Christmas Tree Association president.
Quote from: Ron Scott on January 07, 2016, 05:48:52 PM
What are your plans now? A clearing and chipping operation? Many have gone that route here after they have let their plantations go wild.
Just going to let it grow...
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I think I would to, balsam grows fast and straight, and also grows tighter than pine. ;)