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General Forestry => Firewood and Wood Heating => Topic started by: logman81 on February 02, 2016, 06:34:27 PM

Title: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: logman81 on February 02, 2016, 06:34:27 PM
So its official we are supposed to have a earlier spring and I'm a little concerned it's going to hurt green firewood sales what do you guys think?
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: Jeff on February 02, 2016, 06:49:19 PM
I'd get your own groundhog with a more personal favorable forecast. 
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: wesdor on February 02, 2016, 07:49:13 PM
Firewood sales here in Western Illinois are just about non-existent. Father and son near us have several cords stacked under cover but no buyers. 
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: logman81 on February 03, 2016, 09:35:00 AM
I've been talking with a few of the other loggers in the area and they seem to think firewood sales is going to drop for this coming season do to the weather being warmer. They won't have burned all their wood so they will have some left over. I would have to agree if it continues to be warmer than normal. I'm probably going to have to lower my price just a tad to keep sales up and hope I sell enough to off set the lower cost. I've got about 400+ cords of standing firewood I'm sitting on right now.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: starmac on February 03, 2016, 10:49:14 AM
A combination of warm winter, oil prices and new solid fuel laws here put a huge dent in the firewood and pellet market here this winter, I doubt next year is better.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: ForestryEquipment on February 03, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
Starmac, what do you mean when you say "new solid fuel laws"?  Are you referring to the new OWB regulations or something else?
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: rjwoelk on February 03, 2016, 11:49:35 AM
Most of my sales are camp fires so as long as it does not get so dry they put a ban on we will be ok
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: firechief on February 03, 2016, 01:52:24 PM
1.  Heard on the radio yesterday that the groundhog is right 39% of the time.

2. I purposely didn't fire up my OWB until January 1st since natural gas prices were so low.  November heating bill was $63 and December bill was $70. Two story house is 2500+ square feet built in 1964.  Saved quite a bit of good wood for little cost.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: logman81 on February 03, 2016, 10:14:16 PM
We run our boiler year round cause we only have that to heat our home and my work shop. But hopefully the demand from the diehard customers that insist on using wood to heat with.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: sandsawmill14 on February 03, 2016, 10:31:56 PM
i feel for you northern guys and all the cold  :) i still have about 1/4 of my first cord left :D way it looks i may get by with 1-1/2 cord for the year  ;D :D :D
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: starmac on February 03, 2016, 11:26:22 PM
Quote from: ForestryEquipment on February 03, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
Starmac, what do you mean when you say "new solid fuel laws"?  Are you referring to the new OWB regulations or something else?

The epa has changed our air quality regulations  as far as ppm's go several times the last few years and our borough mayor has been in a tizzy to comply.
It was on the ballot several years and we always voted it down, last yeat they kept it off the ballot and passed some new laws that not only covers owb's, but anything that burns wood,coal or even waste oil.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 06, 2016, 09:07:43 PM
 The rules changed last yr on the cheaper indoor stoves, like the stuff you see at TSC. They had to quit production / importing certain types by June 1st, and sell all stock on hand by Dec 31st. I know Taylor won't even bring a stove into NY now after they lost 1 stove to the EPA. Used clean OWB are hard to find, seeing more and more gasification stoves, which are actually alot more efficient.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: thecfarm on February 06, 2016, 09:20:14 PM
BargeMonkey,Maine did that too.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 06, 2016, 09:27:19 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on February 06, 2016, 09:20:14 PM
BargeMonkey,Maine did that too.
The biggest changes came thru on the Fed level, but NY always has to out due that and go overboard. About 1/2 an hr this summer @ a meeting about new stove laws, and how FW was going to be HUGE this fall. Had 3-4 FW processor company's there selling machines, I don't think it worked out to well for a few guys this yr.  :D  we have narrowed it down, my father wants a new built-rite and I want a cord queen. A new one for us would have to be modified to fit inside so it kind of kills buying a used machine, and after watching the new 20" circle saw from cord-King my mind is made up.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: thecfarm on February 06, 2016, 09:31:00 PM
Ayup,I meant to say the Feds did it. We have a phamplet in the store for all the ones that don't believe us.
Just like the Dcon pellets. Can't buy them anymore either in Maine. They all went to a bait station and a block.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: OH logger on February 07, 2016, 01:25:28 PM
 and after watching the new 20" circle saw from cord-King my mind is made up.
[/quote]

I cant find that on their website?? is this that new for them??
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: JJ on February 07, 2016, 05:28:28 PM
Here in my area process firewood price went up by >25% when price of fuel went up over last couple of years.
Now that price of fuel is down, I hope the price of firewood would fall (sorry you firewood guys), or else I will just burn oil.

Before putting in my wood stove I was burning about 1000gal/year during heating season.  I replace that with about 10 cord/year, so if oil is 1.85/gal, then firewood better be less than $185/cord; otherwise I will just shut the OWB down and burn oil.

Currently processed green firewood is $225/cord while #2 oil is $1.80, so I have had my OWB shut down for last 2 weeks; but its been in 40's anyways.

        JJ
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: beenthere on February 07, 2016, 06:10:58 PM
I recall when I built my house, installed the oil boiler for baseboard radiant heat, I burned average of 1850 gal of oil a year... at the per gal cost of $0.158.  Oil cost went up so I looked into supplement wood heat.. with oil backup. Now have propane backup and tomorrow will find out how low the propane per gal price is going to be. A year ago it was $1.49.
I've been relying on the propane backup fairly often this winter because the temps have been so mild and feeding the wood boiler is not very efficient in warmer weather.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 07, 2016, 11:53:41 PM
 Wish I could have doubled my fw price when on-road fuel was 5.15 gal a few yrs ago.  >:(   we see an influx every yr of 10-15% with customers switching from oil-pellets or fw. I do alot of government subsidized fw, most of these homes/people don't have the money to pick between fuel sources and wood is relatively low maintenance, I know alot of oil stoves haven't seen much use around here in the last few yrs.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 07, 2016, 11:59:39 PM
Quote from: OH logger on February 07, 2016, 01:25:28 PM
and after watching the new 20" circle saw from cord-King my mind is made up.

I cant find that on their website?? is this that new for them??
[/quote]
http://www.cord-master.com/products/firewood-processors/cord-king-cs20-40/
I would probably go with the larger model, but same speed. I'm not looking for 10 cord an hr, let's be realistic. Even at 3-5 an hr I could do all my wood orders in 1 day a week and get back to the woods, by the time it was delivered I've got another truck and trailer waiting.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: FYRWOOD GUY on February 08, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Quote from: OH logger on February 07, 2016, 01:25:28 PM
and after watching the new 20" circle saw from cord-King my mind is made up.

good choice.i've been runnin' one i bought from them new in '86. that machine will mix in good with your outfit!!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19013/2200/aug_oak_2008_033_Standard_e-mail_view.jpg)

i just hauled in 185+ cords of red oak,and plan on shipping it out in the spring
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19013/KHIEL_OAK_2015_005.JPG)
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 08, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
 I like your container building.  ;)   how have they been for support ? We have had a "brute-built-rite" for a LONG time, never had much trouble except stuff just wearing out. I think about 8k hrs on the dial right now. I'm not looking to be the guy doing 2k cord, but 5-600 cord and you could pound out 15-25 cord in a day and get back to something else, I think that's the way to go.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: FYRWOOD GUY on February 08, 2016, 07:24:45 PM
thanks!!....the containers are a lot cooler with the roof on,and they support the roof great. i used 2 foot square 1 foot thick cement blocks with re-rod in them on each corner.and i like to do about 10-12 cord a day also if i get the chance. that don't happen often for me. i do about 150-175 in the spring/summer/fall,then it's back to the chainsaw shop next to the woodstove for the winter months. ;D
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: beenthere on February 08, 2016, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: beenthere on February 07, 2016, 06:10:58 PM
I recall when I built my house, installed the oil boiler for baseboard radiant heat, I burned average of 1850 gal of oil a year... at the per gal cost of $0.158.  Oil cost went up so I looked into supplement wood heat.. with oil backup. Now have propane backup and tomorrow will find out how low the propane per gal price is going to be. A year ago it was $1.49.
I've been relying on the propane backup fairly often this winter because the temps have been so mild and feeding the wood boiler is not very efficient in warmer weather.

$1.099 for Propane this morning.. seems almost that the gas is near nothing and storing cost, handling, distributing, and delivering would eat up most of that per gallon price.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: OH logger on February 08, 2016, 07:42:08 PM

[/quote]
http://www.cord-master.com/products/firewood-processors/cord-king-cs20-40/
I would probably go with the larger model, but same speed. I'm not looking for 10 cord an hr, let's be realistic. Even at 3-5 an hr I could do all my wood orders in 1 day a week and get back to the woods, by the time it was delivered I've got another truck and trailer waiting.
[/quote]

I see you mean model 20. I thought you meant they are comin out with a model with a 20 inch circle saw on it. my bad :-[
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 08, 2016, 09:35:13 PM
Oops.  :)   yeah I have lots of time to kill with my "regular job" when not logging, sat and watched the video of that machine working with a drool cup in hand. 2 other guys around here pounding out 2k+ cord a yr, I don't think they are making money. Do 5-600 quick and efficiently, that's the key. Everything in moderation unfortunately, wasn't even close on my Powerball #'s.  :)
I'm a huge fan of the shipping containers, and have seen a few guys build with them and think it's the way to go, not alot of wasted space plus you've got water tight storage for parts, our mill building is 60x190 ? And I'm running out of room again.  :D. Put up a new 40x80 for storage, that didn't last long.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: Oldman47 on February 15, 2016, 06:05:23 PM
Just my opinion here but if you can stand the cash flow issue you will be in better shape next fall. All of the "left over" wood will be truly dry and should demand premium prices. People that actually use wood for heat will appreciate the much drier wood you will have for sale. Oil prices are forecast to stay low for at least another year, so unless we have a much colder winter next year you may still have wood to carry over to the following year. I burn natural gas right now, which is cheaper than it has been for several years, and that means I have no need in this house to ever light a fire. The house I am building is not on a gas pipeline so I am setting it up to use geothermal heat but have installed a stove in it for supplemental and emergency heat. I doubt the power company will ever reduce rates to reflect cheaper oil so my own costs will be sort of fixed on a per BTU basis. For me that means that good burning dry wood would be a priority for the first cord or so just so I am able to survive a sustained power outage. After that first emergency cord, my own desire to burn wood becomes the variable for me and price then does matter.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 16, 2016, 12:35:23 PM
Quote from: Oldman47 on February 15, 2016, 06:05:23 PM
All of the "left over" wood will be truly dry and should demand premium prices. People that actually use wood for heat will appreciate the much drier wood you will have for sale.
There is such a thing as too dry.  :D  we try and cut just about 1 yr ahead, rarely try and keep a stick in the yard over that. The wind blows up here 364 days a yr, I stack my piles as high as I can, and try to slash less than 12' to speed up dry time. RO, HM, SM & WA aren't to bad getting held over till the following season, but your white and black birch + beech have started to go the other way, if spring cut wood which doesn't go that yr. Seeing a few more gasification stoves which require very dry wood, but these aren't the people your selling alot of wood to. 50% of my customers are to lazy to put a tarp over it, drive by and see them picking it out of the snow, after demanding "seasoned wood". We have a dedicated base of customers who order green wood ahead which cuts down on the craziness when the regular season starts.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: beenthere on February 16, 2016, 02:18:56 PM
IMO, can't get firewood "too dry" if stored outside ... only if maybe baked in a kiln to 6%.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: chance33 on February 16, 2016, 06:10:13 PM
Neighbor told me that he filled-up his #2 fuel oil tank at $1.47 a gallon.  I Still have 1/2 tank left so don't meet the fill-up minimum.  I use 9 to10 cords a year and I'm debating if wood is worth my time and expense this spring.
Title: Re: early spring, will it effect firewood sales?
Post by: BargeMonkey on February 16, 2016, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: beenthere on February 16, 2016, 02:18:56 PM
IMO, can't get firewood "too dry" if stored outside ... only if maybe baked in a kiln to 6%.
My contract with the state reads "seasoned wood" with a moisture content of 20%. I have a kiln that holds 3+ cord, the market isn't there, we talked about buying a purpose built one, guy down the road bought it, good for him.  :D. Firewood isn't a "huge" source of income for our operation, logging makes up maybe 30% total. Kind of a by product to keep busy during the winter, the cheapest, fastest way I can get a quality product out the door the better.