Forgive me if this has already been asked, but could someone please tell me if there is any benefit to the Stihl M-Tronic ?
Stihl states... "With STIHL M-Tronic™ an onboard microprocessor digitally monitors and automatically compensates for changes in your work conditions including elevation, temperature, fuel quality, varying octane levels and dirty air filters."
In your opinion would it be better to stick with the older saws or buy new?
you know what,i actually like it!
i have several older Stihls,but i grab a MS362cm when i dont want to think about the saw,just the cut.
It hasnt been a problem to date,and the saw runs exceptionally well.
Amazing technology! A dealer can hook the saw up to a laptop computer and it can show how many hours the saw has on it, how many rpm it run last. .......
I like things to be kept as simple as possible. The more complex it is, the more things there are to fail and the more expensive it is to fix it. We don't need this technology in chainsaws. It effectively removes humans from the tuning process and if the saw isn't running just right, it has to go back to the dealer. These saws could become very expensive to own after the warranty is over.
I think for a chainsaw owner who makes a living with a saw this technology is a good thing. And surprisingly I've met alot of professional saw users who don't know alot about repairing chainsaws.
For a reputable dealer I think it brings business back to him enabling him to offer better service with money saved for the enduser, eliminating hit and miss diagnosis and unnecessary part swapping.
But if I'm not mistaken Husqvarna sells the AutoTune software for the enduser as I saw it in my 562XP parts list. Whether or not it's easily accessible for the general public I can't say for sure.......
You might be surprised how many tree service guys never make any engine adjustment to a saw, ever.
I'm not sure about longevity yet but i will say there is no comparison between the M-tronic version and old style. M-tronic cuts better, runs better and is a LOT easier to start. Since they have been out I'v probably sold 20 of them, not a single one has came back. I get a normal one back a lot more often.
I dont mind a customer working on a saw or tuning it but provable fact is, you can not tune one better than the saw can tune it self. If it will hold up to test of time.
Quote from: ZeroJunk on February 29, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
You might be surprised how many tree service guys never make any engine adjustment to a saw, ever.
I know exactly what you're saying as I own and operate a tree service company. But thankfully I have 20 years of logging experience falling timber under my belt and before that born/raised working on a farm.
I know some arborists who never sharpened a chain, just swap out to a new loop when the last one gets dull. Lot's of talk on arborist tree forums about buying a "ported" saw but no serious thought in keeping it sharp.
The way I figure it is a good majority of these guys were raised in the city........
there are a heck of a lot of dealers out there who do a terrible job of tuning saws,i know this from bitter experience.
They are there to sell stuff,not fix things.
the Mtronic makes it a little more idiot proof,and thats a good thing IMHO
ps, I totally agree with Holmentree about chain sharpening vs hotrod saws- very true.
I'm going to bring this one back up. It's been almost a year since this post was launched and I am wondering if anyone has any updates or problems with the M-tronic?
I am looking at the Stihl MS 261 C-M with the M-tronic to replace my old 028.
Jon
I have a 362 c-m haven't had an issue with it yet, but I haven't gotten to run it as much as I want or need to.
Well im going to the dealer tomorrow to look at and probably buy it.
Ill give a full report when i do.
Jon
MS362CM here. No problems.
I too am following this thread - I 'm debating 362 w/mtronic or 461 w/o . I only occasionally come up with need for the larger bar of 461 but don't want to go smaller than 362 w/o mtronic .
No rush just yet so I 'm listening to folks w/experience as long as I can
I bought a Stihl MS 261 C-M last year fort cutting firewood. Seems to work will.
Ron
Stihl M-Tronic and Husqvarna AutoTune in my opinion are the way to go, no matter if it's for commercial use or casual use.
I'm a tree service owner/operator and my experience for optimum saw performance is fuel quality. I have a number of saws in my arsenal that are not used that often. I keep them fueled up with Stihl's Moto Mix that I buy by the gallon can.
This fuel has a 2-3 year shelf life after opened (depending on climate)and I can't say enough good things about it. Best stuff you can run in your saws for the best performance whether it's MTronic or not.
Hey Guys! After months of debate which saw to get, I finally picked up my MS 461 yesterday!! Haven't had a chance to run it yet tho. Super excited!
I'll be in touch here when I get my next delivery of lumber. Should be this week! :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33789/IMG_2859.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483820960)
I too just bought a 461, my advice is to contact your dealer and see if your new 461 is one affected by the current fuel line recall. Unfortunately mine is, after only a half a tank of fuel it is leaking.
As far as m tronic goes I am all for it. My 661's are my favorite saws. And have had absolutely no complaints with them.
Quote from: so il logger on January 07, 2017, 04:58:25 PM
I too just bought a 461, my advice is to contact your dealer and see if your new 461 is one affected by the current fuel line recall. Unfortunately mine is, after only a half a tank of fuel it is leaking.
As far as m tronic goes I am all for it. My 661's are my favorite saws. And have had absolutely no complaints with them.
I had to wait until their new shipment came in from those recalls. I'm hoping they should be fine.
But I will post something when I get a chance to use it.
M-tonic here to. Went from 660's to 661's. I'm not lookin back. Very pleased
Quote from: WoodBurner19 on January 07, 2017, 05:14:11 PM
Quote from: so il logger on January 07, 2017, 04:58:25 PM
I too just bought a 461, my advice is to contact your dealer and see if your new 461 is one affected by the current fuel line recall. Unfortunately mine is, after only a half a tank of fuel it is leaking.
As far as m tronic goes I am all for it. My 661's are my favorite saws. And have had absolutely no complaints with them.
I had to wait until their new shipment came in from those recalls. I hoping they should be fine.
But I will post something when I get a chance to use it.
Your dealer must stay on top of things. Mine just found out Tuesday about the newest trouble. He is waiting for the stihl rep to make a visit to explain what needs replaced to correct the issue. He said it may be 2 weeks before an official recall is put out. So if my dealer info is correct it wouldn't hurt to stay in touch with your dealer.
We have been using a 362 cm for a year now in our tree service and except for one issue while working in 100 + temps the saw has been great.
I went to the dealer but the 261 he had did not have the M-Tronic. So he ordered me one. Should be here this week. Looking forward to my first new saw since I won the huskey at the FF picnic! 8)
Quote from: ZeroJunk on February 29, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
You might be surprised how many tree service guys never make any engine adjustment to a saw, ever.
And when they do they screw it up. There have been many ,many saws screwed up by guys with little screw drivers that didn't know what they were doing
Quote from: blackoak on January 11, 2017, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: ZeroJunk on February 29, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
You might be surprised how many tree service guys never make any engine adjustment to a saw, ever.
And when they do they screw it up or make it run worse usually. There have been many ,many saws toasted by guys with little screw drivers that didn't know what they were doing.
Dad bought a 261 M-tronic 2 months ago, loves it.
The ease of starting is a big plus for a 77 year old.
I've ran it, seems to have more power than my 026, but my saw has a lot of miles on it.
Ed
Quote from: blackoak on January 11, 2017, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: ZeroJunk on February 29, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
You might be surprised how many tree service guys never make any engine adjustment to a saw, ever.
And when they do they screw it up. There have been many ,many saws screwed up by guys with little screw drivers that didn't know what they were doing
Yep most of these tree arbs are so focused on the latest handiest dandiest rope friction hitch, brush chipper, boom truck.... that they totally neglect to fully understand their most important tool to get the job done in the first place. :D
M-tronic is based on the early Husky AT, and they pay royalties to Husky to use it.
Husky didn't want that to happen, but the EU forced them to, to "avoid a monopoly situation". The same is the case with some "strato" patents. As some may know, the EU effectively is attempting to move all production of "final products" to Germany, and Sweden was stupid enough to join the EU.
Norway never did, formally, but there are close relations anyway, so a lot of the crap that the EU comes up with applies here as well.
Rant over.
New rant;
I may have forgot to say that I don't like the EU, and the multitude of agendas that system has - and the main culprit is of course Mrs Merkel, that want everything to be centralized into Germany, and is doing a too good job about it.
Also, the EU "parliament" are politicians that didn't succeed in their home country, but were "cast off" to the EU - and politicians are the lowest creeps on the earth. They are earning good money by just having opinions and "debating", not by doing anything useful.
Often they spent years at a university (collage) to study some meaningless subject, "debating" and drinking a lot of beer in the process - there are several hundred meaningless "subjects" that can get you a collage degree, more or less specially designed for such people, so they end up with a degree that sound fine, but is totally useless outside politics. The state and communities here don't understand (or simply ignore) that those degrees are meaningless, so the ones that doesn't succeed in politics can get a well paid job there, because of their meaningless "degree".
On top of that they often are arrogant, because they have a "degree" - never mind that it is totally useless in any context.
I'm very pleased with the M-tronic on my MS 661 and it doing something I can tell. When I go from have done some milling to doing some felling the saw seems "dull" it have optimized it self to run full throttle and using it's torque and not to get quick up to speed but after after a couple of minutes it have adjusted itself to the work I'm doing so something is going on :)
The main reasons for me to buy the new 661 instead of the 660 was the lower fuel consumption but mostly lower vibrations in the handles.
Jesper
Quote from: SawTroll on January 13, 2017, 09:57:03 PM
New rant;
I may have forgot to say that I don't like the EU, and the multitude of agendas that system has - and the main culprit is of course Mrs Merkel, that want everything to be centralized into Germany, and is doing a too good job about it.
Also, the EU "parliament" are politicians that didn't succeed in their home country, but were "cast off" to the EU - and politicians are the lowest creeps on the earth. They are earning good money by just having opinions and "debating", not by doing anything useful.
Often they spent years at a university (collage) to study some meaningless subject, "debating" and drinking a lot of beer in the process - there are several hundred meaningless "subjects" that can get you a collage degree, more or less specially designed for such people, so they end up with a degree that sound fine, but is totally useless outside politics. The state and communities here don't understand (or simply ignore) that those degrees are meaningless, so the ones that doesn't succeed in politics can get a well paid job there, because of their meaningless "degree".
On top of that they often are arrogant, because they have a "degree" - never mind that it is totally useless in any context.
sounds a lot like here
Quote from: SawTroll on January 13, 2017, 09:57:03 PM
New rant;
I may have forgot to say that I don't like the EU, and the multitude of agendas that system has - and the main culprit is of course Mrs Merkel, that want everything to be centralized into Germany, and is doing a too good job about it.
Also, the EU "parliament" are politicians that didn't succeed in their home country, but were "cast off" to the EU - and politicians are the lowest creeps on the earth. They are earning good money by just having opinions and "debating", not by doing anything useful.
Often they spent years at a university (collage) to study some meaningless subject, "debating" and drinking a lot of beer in the process - there are several hundred meaningless "subjects" that can get you a collage degree, more or less specially designed for such people, so they end up with a degree that sound fine, but is totally useless outside politics. The state and communities here don't understand (or simply ignore) that those degrees are meaningless, so the ones that doesn't succeed in politics can get a well paid job there, because of their meaningless "degree".
On top of that they often are arrogant, because they have a "degree" - never mind that it is totally useless in any context.
Your best post ever, tell it like it is. Steve
I agree great post Niko :)
And like you said it all "goes back to Germany " like history had always proven that.
Seems logical enough Britain breaks away from the EU .......
It's just a tiny bit off topic tho...
Hey I believe you will absolutely love the 461 I know I do..... being able to bury a 25" bar in any hardwood and not slownitbdown is prettty sweet.....
I know it's been stated slot, but the saw will gain attitude after a break in time.....I know my 461 was quite a bit stronger after 10-15 tanks of fuel, than it was after only a tank or two...
Let us know what you think of it...... oh and what size bar do you have on her!!!!
Quote from: khntr85 on January 20, 2017, 06:33:11 AM
Hey I believe you will absolutely love the 461 I know I do..... being able to bury a 25" bar in any hardwood and not slownitbdown is prettty sweet.....
I know it's been stated slot, but the saw will gain attitude after a break in time.....I know my 461 was quite a bit stronger after 10-15 tanks of fuel, than it was after only a tank or two...
Let us know what you think of it...... oh and what size bar do you have on her!!!!
I cannot wait to run it! I gotta 20" b/c
I have two cars, the older one with a carburetor and the other with fuel injection controlled by an ECU.
The one with the carb is good to drive, stamp on the accelerator and off it goes. Go up a hill it takes it easily halfway and if I keep the accelerator pressed a bit of pinging comes on unless I change gears. If I go up into the mountains the engine runs rich unless I open up the carb and put in a leaner jet or adjust the fuel screw and/maybe the ignition timing.
If I happen to have fuel that is a bit 'off' the engine plays up and starts knocking. On the highway (not so frequently) I find that my setting of the carb and timing for my usual drive is not that great. Ditto in traffic.
In my newer ECU controlled car, all the variables are taken care of, the temperature, the altitude, the position of the accelerator, the gear selected,whether I am riding the clutch the quality of fuel, and much more.
It does have its negatives, but a whole lot of positives, depending on the situation.
The M-Tronic would be something like that ECU I think.
Have MS461's throughout our fire department with no issues.
I just thought I should mention this.
The MS461 does not have M-Tronic. It is a 3 pole coil that electronically advances the ignition timing and also limits the rpm to 13500.
It has an exhaust stratified system which saves fuel by a good 20% when compared to its 'older' brother the 046/460.
Though power specs are the same as the 460, the power and torque delivery are much better.
I also was shocked at how much torque the saw had.... I mean you can lean on the 25" bar in the hardwoods I cut here in Indiana, and she just eats right threw it....I know that the saw is a minor benefit to me and my small operation, so I am very happy....
A buddy of mine that I buy part saws off of has a ported 372 husky waiting on me whenever I am ready to buy it....i can't wait to see what the husky saws are about, granted this one is ported, but it's a husky none the less.... everyone love the 372, so I am very anxious to try her out!!!!
I just bought a new 372xp and so far really like it. I went with an adjustable saw this time just so I can have atleast 1 saw that I can prety much fully service my self, but the next saw I buy will definatly either be a M-tronic or autotune because I hear a lot of good about them. My cousin has a M-tronic 261 and really likes it and my dad uses a (IIRC)362 M-tronic at work and says it seems to do real well.
After listening and studying on it a bunch I ended getting a Stihl 362 . Haven't used it yet ( I just brought it home ) . I don't think starting it at the dealers counts .
I've liked the other Stihls I own or use so I 'm hoping for good things with my first mtronic .
Well let us know how you like the ms362!!!
Just wanted to update you guys on my purchase of my MS 461. I have only about 3 tanks of gas thru her so far & she has run great.
No gas leak issues & starts right up after fueling. I also have another load of wood coming in about a week. This load was Walnut & some Red Oak. I'm happy so far :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33789/IMG_2982.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1485552263)
Quote from: Weekend_Sawyer on January 04, 2017, 02:34:24 PM
I'm going to bring this one back up. It's been almost a year since this post was launched and I am wondering if anyone has any updates or problems with the M-tronic?
I am looking at the Stihl MS 261 C-M with the M-tronic to replace my old 028.
Jon
I just purchased a MS 261 C-M this morning. I'll run it sometime this week. Cost me about $550 and was given a 2 year warranty with it.
I just purchased a MS 261 C-M this morning. I'll run it sometime this week. Cost me about $550 and was given a 2 year warranty with it.
[/quote]
Best of Luck!!
QuoteI just purchased a MS 261 C-M this morning. I'll run it sometime this week. Cost me about $550 and was given a 2 year warranty with it.
I got a 261 C-M two years ago and it cost me 820€ ($870) (catalog price). Here in Greece everything is more expensive and people get paid less. I will never understand economy... Anyway, I love the saw. Never had a problem with it. I think M-Tronic rocks!
I've got no complaints. I replaced my old 028 with it. It weighs less and has more power.
I do notice some folks saying that they are easy to start. It is just as easy to start as all of my other saws. 6 or so pulls cold and 1 when warm. Any saw of mine that doesn't start like that gets a good talking to and a going over. ;D
Jon
Have owned the MS 441 CM when it first came out with the M-Tronic; Since then I have also purchased the MS 241 CM and the MS 261 CM and have had NO problems with them. Did sell the 441, for I did not care for the Wrap-Around Handle. Just two weeks ago I purchased the MS 462 CM and I am in the process of breaking it in.
Having the three different size saws makes it efficient: 462 for falling and bucking large trees. The 261 is used mostly.
The 241, very light, is used to cut limbs and branches, using the Pico chain.
So I have been with the M-Tronic, since it came out and like it very much.
Welcome aboard Rich! Can you fill in your profile and let us know where you are and what you are cutting?
I recall that in the 50s when the first transistors started appearing here the experts claimed they would never replace the sturdiness of the valves. A decade or more later I saw the first integrated chip (Sinclair) and again the experts claimed they could never do the work of transistors. More recently I heard this about micro chips. In engines I heard this as fuel delivery moved from a basic carburetor, to single point fuel injection, mult-point, cb points to electronic , mechanical injectors to solenoid, to piezoelectric...
Heard it more recently when the exhaust stratified 461 (who uses waste gases) was compared to the clean air stratified 575,..........and, it will continue, until we come to grips with technology.
So, I think the M-tronic just like everything else needs some time for getting accepted. Just the fact that a screw driver no longer works but you need a laptop or PC to fine tune should not be a retarding factor.
The 'expert's will find will find their way around it soon enough.
A very good example is my Fiat with a multijet turbo diesel. A tuner has developed a multi-mode map for the ECU, regular (stock), sports for fun at the signal light, economy for highway cruises and a high torque mode for bumper to bumper traffic. Switchable from mode to mode by switching off the engine, turning on the ignition and pressing the accelerator to select mode 1, 2, 3 or 4 which is indicated by the fuel gauge moving from Empty , Quarter, Half, Three Quarter and Full being the selected mode.
If an independent tuner in a country like mine can do this for Mercs, Bee Ms, Toyota and such, I am confident that soon members on this forum and elsewhere will find the ways and means to custom tune M-tronic very very soon. :)
I don't make money using saws. But I save money doing my own maintenance and using what I can for firewood and hobbies. Still, I wanted three new saws that would last me a long time, be easy to start, and wouldn't require much maintenance over cleaning and sharpening.
While I really, really would have loved to have a brand new MS201CEM and a MS261CM, I ended up buying 3 Echos, CS-361P, CS-490, as well as a CS-2511T for over $400 less than what the 2 M-Tronic Stihls would have cost me, and over $900 less than if I added in the MS150TCE.
I do think the 2 M-Tronics 35 and 50cc saws are a cut above the two similar Echo's I got though. And I really do like most Stihl equipment. But all three of my new saws have been super easy to start and trouble free, and have required a minimum of tuning.
I bought an M-tronic Ms261cm last year. I'm very impressed with this little saw. It has a surprisingly good amount of torque and has ran flawlessly from 90°F to -20°F, and I've never reset it or anything. Turn it on, pull the cord, and go👍
I have a 341 (bought new) and a secondhand 660. Pretty old fashioned and especially the 660 is a beast 8). They work well and only had some issues with broken oilpumps. When I want to buy a new one I will go for a 461 or 661, but will they work fine with high temperatures as well with the M-tronic? I mean >30 degrees celcius ( 85-95 fahrenheit)
And nobody ever had problems with the processor etc? And if so, is it possible to replace the processor by yourself?
Quote from: joe_indi on February 17, 2019, 11:43:30 PM
I recall that in the 50s when the first transistors started appearing here the experts claimed they would never replace the sturdiness of the valves. A decade or more later I saw the first integrated chip (Sinclair) and again the experts claimed they could never do the work of transistors. More recently I heard this about micro chips. In engines I heard this as fuel delivery moved from a basic carburetor, to single point fuel injection, mult-point, cb points to electronic , mechanical injectors to solenoid, to piezoelectric...
Heard it more recently when the exhaust stratified 461 (who uses waste gases) was compared to the clean air stratified 575,..........and, it will continue, until we come to grips with technology.
So, I think the M-tronic just like everything else needs some time for getting accepted. Just the fact that a screw driver no longer works but you need a laptop or PC to fine tune should not be a retarding factor.
The 'expert's will find will find their way around it soon enough.
A very good example is my Fiat with a multijet turbo diesel. A tuner has developed a multi-mode map for the ECU, regular (stock), sports for fun at the signal light, economy for highway cruises and a high torque mode for bumper to bumper traffic. Switchable from mode to mode by switching off the engine, turning on the ignition and pressing the accelerator to select mode 1, 2, 3 or 4 which is indicated by the fuel gauge moving from Empty , Quarter, Half, Three Quarter and Full being the selected mode.
If an independent tuner in a country like mine can do this for Mercs, Bee Ms, Toyota and such, I am confident that soon members on this forum and elsewhere will find the ways and means to custom tune M-tronic very very soon. :)
I hope you're right Joe. I agree with your general points, and I love my 362cm, but I wonder how many people will have the know-how to hack on saw computers. Cars have a wide audience, but sawyer/hacker/gearhead is a rare combination I imagine.
I have had my 261-CM for over a year now and have no complaints.
I do have a warning. Don't let it run out of gas. I have done this twice now and it took about 30 pulls to get it going again.
This saw rides in the truck with me when I am up on the tree farms in WV so it gets used about every other weekend.
I have had my 661-CM for almost as long and it mainly gets used on the chainsawmill. It is a real bruiser and I'm glad to have it.
Jon
Im not a fan of the autotune but once I mod the second linkage they work fine, the Mtronic seems to work pretty good and the latest 462 seems to work the best
I'm curious, what does the 2nd linkage do and how did you mod it?
Jon
Quote from: Weekend_Sawyer on February 21, 2019, 07:48:35 AM
I have had my 261-CM for over a year now and have no complaints.
I do have a warning. Don't let it run out of gas. I have done this twice now and it took about 30 pulls to get it going again.
Jon
HA - funny you should mention that Jon - I did run out a couple of times with the new 261 I have as well..
I found it goes quite a way on a tank full over my older 026 and previous 290 to the point where it allows me to get caught up on my cutting and forget about fuel related things.. so inevitably the end result is it just dies without so much as a single cough or fart as a carb'd version might give, well before you can shut it down..
My guess is the M-Tronic adjusts so well that it runs perfectly right until the last drop unlike older versions which usually give some lean-warning or surging as notice of impending doom..
AND as you mentioned it does take quite a bit of effort to resurrect it again.
I found the weight of it, lack of vibration, and good balance, all contribute to making the time fly by and instead of getting tired enough to stop and refuel as an excuse to take a break the C-M version lets me just power on through - sufficiently to forget to look at the tank level and paying for it with the dreaded 'empty' hard restart penalty.
I'm really pleased with the saw and especially the performance of it though, all things considered!
My 362 will get subtly irregular when it gets low on fuel, and I stop to fill it. Haven't run it out of gas yet due to the warnings here :^D
Yeah you wouldn't want to be in the predicament of a barber chair on a tree splitting up 30 feet above you when your saw stops the instant you're half ways through the back cut.
That Mtronic should have a built in warning signal when it's starting to run out of gas.
My 261 I noticed it had a slight ignition miss right before it almost died and I was able to turn it off in time.
But I was just lucky I was paying attention.
I just bought my 4th M-Tronic saw, a 241c. I don't think it will take over the 362c for riding shotgun with me, I love that saw, all-around. I'm stingy, so all the M-Tronics I have are second-hand to me. But I'm happy to say, I haven't had major issues yet.
I like that one can perform a simple reset for various situations, especially when entering a new season. Then they seem to run like a champ.
I would like to ask: does one benefit from modding (intake/exhaust port timing grinding or muffler mods) the M-Tronic saws in the same way as a normal carb? I wonder how hot I can make my 241c before I run into issues -- but I'm also OK if the suggestion is to leave it alone.
Cheers
Check out this thread starting at reply #507.
Actually the whole thread is worth the read!
Official MS261CM vs 550XP test in Chainsaws (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=96491.500)
I definitely agree with the "do not run out of fuel" statement!!!!!!!
Is that enough !!!!?? :)
Last week I was at the stihl dealer. I know the guy pretty good, and asked about the M-tronics. He told me that the first models had some problems, he thought it was the 201 tophandle who were the first with m-tronic. After the first models they never had serious problems. Most important thing is to keep everything clean when refilling and servicing. When there are problems with the M-tronics, people will say it's a software problem but in fact the problem is caused by bad maintenance and contamination. It's not my experience, just tell what he told me last week ;)
He didn't recognize the problems with running out of fuel either, is everyone here having problems with it?
He also told me that you can reset the m-tronic by running it on choke for 60 or 90 seconds. It's a kind of calibration, and mostly the problems will be solved. When carburettor and everything is clean offcourse... And the microprocessor/unit is easy to replace.
I think my next saw will be a m-tronic, than I can figure it out my self ;D
Regarding M tronics VS older conventional models there has been a raging debate out here . Both Stihl and Husqvarna sell and service many saws in this neck of the woods . Most folk up here live at 7-10,000 ft
most fuel wood cutting is done between 9-11,000 . Talking to dealers and many folk using the newer M tronic models , most folk seem very unhappy with their performance.
I'm not referring to a home owner occasionally cutting but people who make a living selling firewood or cut their own for winter.
BUT Ive never owned one so my impression is based on other peoples feedback.
I bought a MS661 and have only made a couple of cuts with it. Bad weather. I can tell you that it is very quick. But, I'll never put over a few hours on it.
A tree service guy brought me a MS261 with an earlier solenoid. The piston was toast. I cleaned the cylinder, put a Meteor piston and a new solenoid. Just finished a few minutes ago. Seems to run fine.
How does a man who runs a saw for a living let a saw cook and not hear it or be able to tell it is off. Never have understood that.
Quote from: ZeroJunk on March 22, 2019, 12:46:33 PM
How does a man who runs a saw for a living let a saw cook and not hear it or be able to tell it is off. Never have understood that.
Most of them don't, and I don't understand either, but they just are not "engine men".
I purchased a brand new 661 M-tronic few weeks ago and tested it in some poplar logs before it's on his way to a project.
Can't say it has much more power than my old 660. I expected it to be much more agressive to be honest. But with my 660 I often need 5 pulls or more before it starts, the 661 goes straight away! That's a big difference. The air filter is easier to clean as well, but it looks like it collects way more sawdust than my 660. After an hour it looks like its almost full of dust, my 660 only needs cleaning after an entire day.
I ran out of fuel once, and the 661 didn't start after refill. It looked like it flooded, while my stihl dealer told me that it is impossible to flood the M-tronic. I took out the spark plug, filed my chain and waited a few minutes and then it started again. But it's quite annoying that it won't start after running out of fuel...
we have a 362cm and a 462 and have to say that over time with multiple users the mtronic easy to start feature...fails.
Our 462 must be choked to start after running out of fuel and frankly it is not easy to start but the choking after running empty has been an issue from get go. Going to change fuel filters and air filters on it next week and reset to see if gets easier to start.
Our 362 had a fuel filter get plugged and since then has been tough to keep running sometimes...sometimes...and that gets me.
Oh and parts are hard to get, when bucking a massive oak this week the blade pinched just as the log decided it could roll a bit, log got the handle (we don't have a full wrap...) and bent it and broke a suspension rode inside spring. Ordered another handle ( full wrap :) )but a stihl dealer took 2 days to figure out how to order it. They have still never seen a 462 so you may experience pain in parts.
On the positive side they both seem ok power wise, I'm the size of a half starved chicken so a 660 type saw is just too big for me. 462 is fine, I dropped some oaks with massive buttress's yesterday with the 462 (even with a half broken handle) that were 60" at widest, just cut off buttress and make a big notch and bored it out. I actually dropped it with the 362. If I were big enough to use a 660 safely I sure would or the husky equivalents.
Quote from: nativewolf on May 16, 2019, 05:52:51 AMor the husky equivalents
I see a lot of post about how happy people are happy with there M-tronic, but it seems that there are a lot of post about how they are not. I was thinking about getting the MS661 because I have a older MS290 that I got in 2011, I converted it to a MS390. I've never had any problems with the saw what so ever. I like the saw! If you look at all the chainsaw problems, there are very little post about anyone having problems with the old style husky 395XP that is still in production with the plane old carburetor. I plan on getting a husky in the next month or so. You could in time see me post about a problem I have with it, but one thing is for sure it won't have any m-tronic problems.
I purchased the huskvarna 550 xp 3 years ago and have cut 20plus cords of wood each year and it does not give any warning when running out of fuel. I have learned to keep an eye on the fuel window on the fuel tank. It has been a while since I ran it out of fuel so I don't remember if it was harder to start- maybe a few extra pulls. My trees are not big so I put a 16" bar on, much better balanced and wanted to save some weight. Has run and performed well.
The best things that have happened in the automotive industry in the last three decades are electronic ignition and fuel injection. Why then should chain saws be any different? I've sold a couple of ms250c and three of stihl's ms180c. All five of these saw were equipped with tooless chain adjusters and e-z pull starter. All five purchasers have voiced praise for their saw. I don't own one myself simply because I have more saws than I need as it is. One I forgot Husqvarna's 460 auto-tune. I hav'nt heard from this individual... no news is good news. The point is autos run better and last longer than the carburated, points and condenser version, fact. Chainsaws will have the same type of results.
I agree knuckle but when they do not work, what do you fix. even the dealers, at least early on, were just changing out parts. I am anxious to try the ms 500 i when it gets to Ks., but I had bought the ms 661 and had nothing but trouble. would not start warm and that is a big saw to pull on 20 - 30 times. My dealer took it back finally and I got an 880. I have the ms 261 and like it fine.
At my age Al it would take a week to give 30 pulls on a 661, compression release or not. I really disliked those 'ol throttle bodies. Auto's tweener era. The auto makers got over that hump. M-tronic, auto-tune I believe is the saw ind. tweener era. Stihl and Husqy will get over the hump as well. I'm not sure what to fix on the smart saws... they are smarter than am. lol
I'd pay extra for Mtronic. $25 certainly. $50 probably. I'd start thinking at $100. I love my 362. Starts easily, and runs without hassle. I like cutting wood, not wrenching on engines. Mtronic keeps me cutting wood.
my saw has not been run since last year. 3 pulls fired right up and cut flawlessly. last time I used it was middle of winter. its 65 degrees today.
I love my MS261cm. I don't ever want another carb.
Well, you can't fix the solenoid. So, if you ever have a fuel related problem with your 261 and have ruled out fuel line, filter or whatever just replace the solenoid. Just plugs in. One way. Chances are yours is an older version and they have improved reliability.
The ignition works with the solenoid to determine the fuel mixture. On some saws, the replacement carburetor and ignition come as a unit in one box for under warranty repair. So, you know there is some tweaking going on.
huh, wonder if the solenoid is bad on our 362. The 462 is getting harder and harder to start.
Quote from: lxskllr on February 22, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
My 362 will get subtly irregular when it gets low on fuel, and I stop to fill it. Haven't run it out of gas yet due to the warnings here :^D
So does my 2nd gen 261c...it still acted like a regular carb saw the one time i was close to running it completely out. But, I was outta the cut and the saw was just idling. Anyways i like the translucent gas tank on it...makes it easy to just glance at the saw and estimate fuel left. Anyways, 2 261c's, one 1st gen(sold) and another 2nd gen and no problems whatsoever with mtronic. I like it.
What serial # second generation 261c start with?
To reset the mtronic, run on choke for 60 to 90 seconds??? Is this correct? Never needed too do this but good to know if it ever needed. Thanks
Quote from: trapper on May 19, 2019, 11:08:17 AM
What serial # second generation 261c start with?
Not sure, but 2nd gen has different bar/rim cover and the cylinder is angled more with different looking cooling fins. These two things are dead giveaways for 2nd generation 261.
I took a 3 day weekend and my brother and I dropped 12 trees.
We were into some big wood for our area, 30" white pine, 25 to 30" red and chestnut oaks and a 22" yellow poplar. We were cutting saw logs and firewood.
I ran my 261 and 661 M-Tronic as well as my old 440.
My brother ran his 271 non M-Tronic and 660.
Yes we are a Stihl family.
Temperatures from the mid 60's to the mid 80's.
This was quite an undertaking for a couple of weekend warriors. I'm happy to say that no one got hurt and only 1 tree, a dead and hollow 30" red oak fell 90 degrees from where I wanted it to go.
So my conclusion is, all of the saws ran very well. I could not point to any particular saw and say that one outpaced any of the others. All of them performed as expected. I like the M-Tronic because it does a better job of tuning the carb than I would and I believe that will add to the life of the saw.
I also slept very well.
Jon
Quote from: skipster on February 29, 2016, 05:43:58 AM
you know what,i actually like it!
i have several older Stihls,but i grab a MS362cm when i dont want to think about the saw,just the cut.
It hasnt been a problem to date,and the saw runs exceptionally well.
It works good at least for now. Long term reliability I'm not sure about. I suspect it will be expensive to repair and in an older saw it might be the thing that causes you to heave it in a junk pile because the cost of repair is not worth putting into an old saw. I have a ms262 but I wonder about long term reliability especially if the electronics get wet or subject to extreme temperature. So far so good.
I got use to adjusting the old carbs and enjoyed getting them working good so I still question is the m-tronic worth the time saving convenience and luxury of use. At this point I have to say yes it's worth it but I will see how it pans out long term. It always amazes me how engineers can come up with such smart devices but yet can't make a proper oil and gas cap.
If you have a problem other than fuel lines etc. getting old it will be the solenoid very very likely.
You can change it yourself . It is held in place by a little strap and a torx screw.
$47 U.S
FYI, the torx is the one with the little teat or whatever you call it in the center. PITA
You can get it out with a small vice grip if need be.
when i cut ERC the other day, had trouble starting. My ms 261 had ran and then set for a while, so I went back to the third position (down), smelled flooded, and started fine later. ran it out of gas today and took a while but did start after 15 pulls or so and ran fine.
all i can say is, i just bought ms261 last week. with no computer. retireing my av32 i bought new in 1981. i carb rebuild, and up graded ignition, origanal spark plug. i do my own work, no computors for me.
It's only a matter of time until that's all that will be available. I think if I was making my living with a saw I would want m-tronic, downtime costs money, but for now I'll keep tinkering with my dinosaurs.