I know drying rates vary and that there's a standard for thickness, but as experienced sawyers, do you vary from the norm when cutting for client's? I will be cutting mostly eastern red cedar.
ERC shrinks very little. I do not oversize any.
Of course, I cant answer for your client. They have the say and that is why I always try to get an actual measurement from them and what the lumber is going to be used for.
I have some clients who are using it rough that want 5/8'' thick. I cut a lot of 4/4 for a flooring maker at 1-1/8''. I have cut some 8/4 at 2-3/8''. I cut quite a few cross ties that are a little thicker ;D at 7-1/8''x9-1/8''. I even have a pallet maker that buys 2-7/8''x3-7/8''. I don't think you can buy any of these thicknesses at the big box store, so all these vary from the ''norm''.
I try to keep in mind with all my sawing that I want the buyer to want to buy my product and if you make exactly what they want, they will want it.
PC
This is where some type of setworks is so valuable. As Paul said, you can "dial in" and saw exactly what the customer specifies.
Magic
How thick did you cut your stuff for your cabin build or other things that you intend to use for yourself?
gww
I over sized the framing lumber 1/16" thin side and 1/8" thick side. (2X4 = 1 9/16 X 3 5/8) Everything else was sawed 1".
Quote from: Magicman on March 12, 2016, 11:33:54 AM
I over sized the framing lumber 1/16" thin side and 1/8" thick side. (2X4 = 1 9/16 X 3 5/8) Everything else was sawed 1".
That is how I had cut all my framing lumber. SYP, after drying, shrank down to box store size and worked out great.
I cut what the customer wants after making sure he has all the input from me that he wants to receive.
Most discussion is around how much over final target thickness the green wood should be cut. Important to understand what the customer knows about machining rough boards and what his widths and thicknesses of finished boards might be. Need that info anyway to saw for him, which helps to advise thickness overages.
Lots of hardwood flooring at 1-1/8". Framing lumber either store size or full size as requested. Beams are almost always full size.
Usual for customers not knowing what they are going to use the wood for, but have general furniture making in mind, small to medium size pieces, is to cut either 1-1/8 or 1-1/4, plus some 2-1/8 or 2-1/4".
If they start talking about making beds, hutches, dining tables etc. after saying they don't know what they're going to make, better stop the saw and have a second discussion.
I aim for 1/16 under an inch with bairly fair consistancy. My 2x4 I aim for close to 1 and 1/2 inch but end up with a lot of 1 and 3/4 inch boards green. I seem to have a harder time with the 2x4s but still works for most things. I am going to have to watch the 4 inch side a bit close from you guys remarkes. I had been aiming for 3.5 inch but now know I should increase that by 1/8th inch. Magic, thanks for answering my question.
gww
I have used many Mbf of my own framing lumber plus sawn hundreds of Mbf for customers and have never had a complaint concerning lumber that did not match "store bought".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_0262.JPG)
Here is 4434bf of 2X4's & 2X6's that I sawed last week for a many times repeat customer. He is building a barn and the unstickered lumber will be used green.
There are 2 grades for ERC. #1 common and #2 common in the NHLA grading manual. Haven't used the grade in 10 years. All ERC is sawn to customer's spec's. If we are to plane, I saw 1/16 heavy for each face being planed. If we are to plane S2S to 3/4, we move the mill 1" each time. This should leave 5/32 extra wood if 2 sides are to be planed. We assume blade will take out 3/32" each pass.
The question is always what does it take to get the final result. Therefore, you must know what the final result should be and work your way backwards to the first cut.
Just a word of caution if it shrinks below 11/2"x31/2 it is no longer considered framing material, if it has to undergo any scrutiny from a lumber grader and most will overlook a little under on the width but have have zero tolerance on the thickness, so safer to cut 1/8 --3/16 over depending on specie and be able to use it as you please.
Yes, much depends when you are sawing framing lumber.
I realize that we have drifted somewhat from the OP's original question but we have not made it to food yet. :D
What about the long side of 2 x6, 2 x 8s, and 2 x 10. How wide to cut green pine to get close to proper width when dry. Thanks
Quote from: Magicman on March 12, 2016, 02:23:40 PM
Yes, much depends when you are sawing framing lumber.
I realize that we have drifted somewhat from the OP's original question but we have not made it to food yet. :D
Well its about time ya got to that.
I think 1'' is just the right thickness for beef steaks to grill or pan fry. Too thick and they take too long and are hard to get it done any way but medium rare.
PC
There are no hard fast rules capt dick, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
The vast majority of the SYP logs that I saw are from beetle and lightning killed trees that have dried somewhat. Generally if all of the lumber is sized the same there is no problem and seldom is it used in conjunction with store bought lumber anyway.
Often the customer will want 2X6's, 8's, 10's, & 12's full width but 1½" thick. Always understand what the customer wants and saw accordingly.
What difference are the guys out west doing for Douglas Fir versus the SYP that you cut back there?
Since you are cutting eastern red cedar, I assume it is going for cabinets, furniture, that sort of thing. Rule of thumb I use is 10% shrinkage to go to kiln dry, then another 1/16" of each side for surfacing. If the customer wants 3/4" finished product, I cut to 1-1/8" thick. for 1" thick product, I cut to 5/4 (1-1/4"). For anything else, I take the final desired thickness, add 1/8" for surfacing, and 10% for drying, so 2" finished thickness starts out as 2-3/8", calculated by (2+1/8)x1.1 . Remember, the boards will also shrink about 10% in width. According to the data, eastern red cedar shrinks only about 5%, so you could multiply by 1.05 instead of 1.1, which would let you cut 2-1/4" thickness. Clear as mud?
With cedar at $1.60 per board foot, every 1/16" is worth $.10 per square foot. 6.25% of wood going to waste. Experiment by using a caliper to measure green wood, mark where you measured, dry, then measure again. Do this with both width and thickness. This will tell you the amount of shrinkage.
If wood will be used outside, it only needs to dry to 12%.
Cedar is very different than SYP and hardwoods.
Does anyone cut material oversized, then go back and cut requested size by edging out the curves caused by tension? I know the more experienced guys here can read logs and know how to mill so lumber does not curve. It seems wasteful, but to me a bent board is waste also.
Yes I do that. I saw a lot of ties and just sticker the fitches and boards, let dry and then edge on the mill. You end up with nice straight lumber that way.
I have never gone back and resawed anything.
If it's cold outside just tell the "customer" that shrinkage is not your fault, it happens to all sawyers :)
Thanks for the answers and don't sweat the drift, I actually like a little so I can learn more!
Quote from: KirkD on March 12, 2016, 10:21:51 PM
What difference are the guys out west doing for Douglas Fir versus the SYP that you cut back there?
I cut Douglas-fir at an inch and a half thick by full width.
Keeps the math simple :) :)
For most of my customers I cut inch lumber using the ruler and the lumber will come off at 7/8-15/16".
For those that specify otherwise I'll cut the full inch using the 4/4 scale or the 5/4 scale!
For two (2) inch, I have always used the ruler.
It's all in what the customer wants!
Without setworks I tend to cut framing lumber a true 2" thick and a width comparable with store bought lumber. So for example I cut a 2x6 2 inches by 5 1/2. Therefore,the project is interchangeable with store lumber. Also, green framing lumber cut 1 1/2 thick has a greater chance to distort during drying not to mention some loss of strength particularly if you are sawing grade 3 type pine
When you are doing custom sawing it is up to the customer what they want. Now if you are selling to someone who is brokering you lumber. There are outfits around that will buy from small mills and then sort by grade and package it and ship it out by the semi load. Now you are going to be dealing with industry standard grading rules for product.
Here is a link to one of the standards out west. It will give you some idea how they look at it. When the end user is not going to surface it and is going to use it green or air dried you find they often want what would be looked at as under size. Just a matter of their application.
http://www.wclib.org/r17-pdf-online/wclib/pdfs/l_WCLIB_2004_RulesBook_9.pdf
Now days any place that has any type of building code with few exceptions requires 2X lumber used in framing to carry a grade stamp.