I would like to build a stove for boiling sap.First off small scale,only 12 taps. I would like to build a stove to boil on. I am looking hard at a 2 foot by 3 foot pan,a store bought evaporator pan. But the stove part has me wondering. I would like to have the stove about 32 inches tall and about 32 inches wide. The inside would be about 2 feet and each side about 4 inches thick,with sand inside of that 4 inches. Or maybe just have an empty void? I can make some sort of grates and a door. But the steel part has me wondering too. Could I get away with regular steel? I could run some angle bracing on the inside of the 4 inch space that I want to fill with sand to help out with warpage. Have seen that done on a few greenhouse stoves. Or do I need boiler steel? I suppose boiler steel is pricey?? :o I plan on lining the inside with fire brick,they are 9 inches high. Yes,I know I could buy a gallon of syrup a year cheaper. ;D But the wife really enjoys boiling sap.
Ray:
Do not use galvanized steel for boiling sap. I'm told the end product is poisonous. I have no first hand experience though.
As to what to use you need to do a cost/benefits analysis to see what is best for you and your wallet.
Enjoy tour sweet stuff.
Gerald
What little I know,a store bought one is SS and pricey,but that is what I am buying. I just checked the price and forgot all ready.I think it will do a job on a $200 bill. I do remember the SS sipot was almost $50.
make sure to use food grade ss for your pans
Can you use an old box stove with the top off?
Or maybe an 55 gal drum on it's side cut a notch to set the pan in , Cut a door in the end. When it burns out cut another drum.
Check E-Bay for sap pans the 18x34x6 will fit on a 5 burner BBQ grill with very good heat control. Those pans are made in Hunington In.
You can make the stove out of 3 high cement blocks with an opening at one end and a chimney at the other. Size it to fit the pan.
I think they make square 12" ID cement blocks for masonary chimneys.
Might find restaurant buffet SS pans at yard sales and used restraunt supply places but they probably won't be as deep.
Pan will be brought from a sap house supply dealer,so food grade. Yes,I know that. I should be able to get one at just about cost,I work in a hardware store and we order from the company that I was looking at.
Peter,I tried a stove,but was big enough.55 gallon metal drums are hard to come by.
Sprucebunny,I looked at those pans from a buffet years ago. We was just in a place that sold them the other day.No way to drain the sap out without tipping the tray up. Yes,it can be done,but I would not want to do it and I need Brenda to be able to do it too.I have a cement place no more than an hour from me,Just might check out the masonary blocks.
I built this stove last year for the cost of the barrel stove kit. I put grating in it, and a baffle to divert the flame up onto the pan
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20150216_165205590.jpg)
My father-in-law had a sap stove built from an oil barrel for at least 15 years that lasted fine with some really hot fires in it.
That looks good. I also want to put the stove inside of a small sugar shack. With the roof vents and all. I will probably be saying the same thing next year too. ::)
Did you think of a turkey fryer? small time, good heat control, easy clean up, It works good for us and our 12 taps. Lazerdan
Ayup. But want wood heat. Fussy guy I am,I am. Be cheaper to use a fryer. A lot less work too.No wood to get.But it would be cheaper to just go buy it too. ;D
If you're going to do all that with a sap house over it' then get an arch and do it right.
Have you considered buying a used set-up?I would think you might be able to pick up a unit from someone who is upgrading or quitting sugaring.
Used,yes and no. Maybe need to check that out more. Have to remember SMALL scale here. 12 taps.I am even THINKING about going to a 2 foot SS food grade pan. We don't get alot of sap per day. 10 gallons is just about what we get per day,most times 8 is the norm. Hard to boil off sap in a 2X3 pan getting only 10 gallons a day.I have seen us get 5 gallons a day. I suppose I could store it for a couple days too.I think most of the units are set up with a 2X3 pan. Not a rich man here. I would not even want to spend $1500 on a unit.Going to be hard enough to spend out $800 for steel for the roof. ;D
I have built 2 stoves, one for myself and one for a friend, both smallish. Both used an oval oil furnace tank as their base but my stove has an angle iron frame, bed rails, with the salvaged tank steel for infill. I built my friends by cutting down the tank and welding an angle iron rectangle on the top. His has a cut out door and draft door, mine was built from two pieces of heavy scrap I had. Both stoves work reasonably well but would work much better lined with firebrick. I have been saving an old wood furnace firebox and heat exchanger to make a new stove with but I gave it away this year to a friend who is boiling with it. The conversion on it was very easy, not much cutting or welding and he now has the best stove of the three of us.
I kinda am planing on a ¼" thick steel for the outside walls. Than ¼" angle to cut down on the wapage. Or so I think I need angle steel. Yes,on the fire bricks. Yes,on the cut outs for the door and the ash door.
I used to boil using a 2x6 ft Grimm lightning set up on a homemade arch. The arch was simply an angle iron frame with probably 20-24 ga sheet metal infill. Line it with mortared fire bricks and the steel really sees no heat at all. You can have the fires of hell inside it and still touch the outside. You just need to figure out how to do a loading door and a flue connection.
Firebrick I can get from work,at a discount.Sounds like I won't have to worry about the sides warping. Still a thinking.
A 2X3 pan is probably a little oversized for 12 taps :) Mason's 2X3 evaporator is rated for 1-50 taps.
Yes,that is right. I'm thinking of a 2x2 food grade pan too. Really the only way a 2x3 would work for me is to collect for 3-4 days without boiling. :)
For a 2 x 2 it seems to me it would cost less to buy a old flat top wood stove and modify it to hold the pan. 1/4" steel goes for over 50 cents a pound around here. I use a 24" carbon steel wok over a wood fire for the 12 trees I tap and can only do about 10 gallons a day max. :)
I have a flat piece of ¼" steel,I think at least 4 feet square,leaned up against a tree. Than I have a pile of angle,square,round,flat stock too. It just won't look pretty when done. Metal is rusted. I tried a wood stove,BUT it had a small fire box and just could not get the wood into for the heat.
Here's some really good plans. We're building the 2X4 that Medic421 posted. The arch is done but the pans aren't going to be done in time for this season. We'll have them for next year.
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/search.html?q=syrup+evaporator&backendClass=entity
Yes,nice plans. Might be beyond my thinking.
I just lately chopped a $100 stove, but will have to wait until next season to brick it up and try it out. The pan is about 26" x 40." Need to have a very good grinder, torch and 220 buzz box welder. You kind of move the stove parts around a bit, then weld on an angle iron deck to rest your pans on. This one turned out to have room back beside the stove pipe for a frying pan on one side and a tea kettle on the other.
A look at mapletrader.com would be very much in your interest.
Good luck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/evap1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/evap2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/evaporator_002.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38341/evaporator_003.jpg)
Pretty clever guy I see. I like that.
I am really leaning towards a 2x2 pan. Brenda has a bum knee and has a hard time walking alot. That keeps her down to only a few taps,12. I think I have the metal to make a stove. I still have to check on that.
Thank you for the mapletrader link.
I like the green grass in the back ground too.
That link is great!!!!
I like the way you turned the angle iron,keeps the pan in place. I planned on having mine flat. Thank you.
thanks, my favourite place at mapletrader is the homemade equipment section.
That angle iron top is built so I can suddenly yank the finished pan off the stove onto a yet unbuilt rolling cart. Probably elevate the whole thing a foot at install time so I don't have to bend over so far to load wood in it. The upright hollow sleeves at the very back will accept 2 square tubes for a set of back legs that extend skyward to support a future hood. The 2 internal square tubes in the firebox supply more air to the main fire with a minor secondary supply under the back of the pan.
Don't feel at all bad about anything you may come up with. I was lately at a pro camp helping out in the middle of the night where the new pressure hose to the filter thing blew up - got a syrup shower with both the owners, followed immediately by a rubber boot syrup skating scene of enormous hilarity... at least on my part.
That piece of metal is 4'X6'. ;D Than I have another smaller piece that I found too. That should do it. I might go with 6 inch steel pipe than when I go through the roof I will need at least a 3 foot section of insulated pipe. I might need 2 sections because of the roof vent too. The pipe will be close to it. Looks like I will be building a stove. Trying,I said trying,to keep the price down on this adventure.
Looks like a 2x2 pan will be used.
Stove will be on cement,the floor will be wood. I will have a woodshed in the back and the feed door will be facing the back. Don't want to have to carry the wood to the front of the sugar shack. Be easier for Brenda too.
I kinda plan on grates in the stove too,with a ash pan. Does it matter,will it help,or make things worse? I only have cement blocks now and have the fire right on the ground. Seems to work well.
This was from 2 years ago,but the same thing I am using now.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/4maple2014.JPG)
Nice piece of steel, and if it works I hesitate to quibble about it, but...
It's more typical to have the pan directly over the fire rather than sitting on a metal plate. As you have it, the fire needs to first warm up the iron top plate, maybe jump some air gap (as pans tend to be un level) then warm up the pan, then evaporate cold sap maybe against a draft. Steel and stainless steel are good, but not wonderful heat conductors; only meaning you are going to use more than usual wood, if that matters.
Some folks on Mapletrader rig block walls like yours the width of those stainless steel chafing pans you see at a hotel buffet and drop them right in beside each other in a row front to back. Might be cheaper than the pan you have in mind. (Note that ordinary black iron pans were used before stainless came in.)
Grates are important, any way to get air under the fire is good. I see people using angle iron on bricks, old cast iron radiators are spoken well of, and an air blast from a car vacuum or little squirrel cage fan is popular.
These folks are using a similar method to yourself, except they have a stove with the lids removed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HunocfQ9pyg&ebc=ANyPxKrzYjJR5YKG1jG2u5qyUXzMIc6SMLiEvLz7CudodGSpMTTo88aWh4rwrj73AqfJBCn7NTKeR3u9YBMvdhvte73BT13xcQ
and here is the chafing pan approach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w4bxvVYgag
good luck!
There is a hole under that pan.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/2maple2014.JPG)
That is a piece of SS that will not be used for the stove.Yes,the stove will be open like yours. Yes,flames on the pan is good. I need to have a spigot to drain the sap off. Yes,I could do it with the buffet trays,both of us have looked at them more than once. Yes,I want to keep the cost down,but want it to be easy for her to enjoy too.
Than we have a bigger SS kettle,3-4 gallon, that we keep on the back to prewarm the sap.Just about where the fry pan is in this picture.We take from the kettle to fill the frying pan. We get some rolling boils in the kettle too.
Here's my new arch.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10027/027.JPG)
Well!!! Talk about showing up at a knife fight with a gun. ;D That does look good. :)
This is what I use
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=202588#top_display_media
Hey Ray - We bought a 2x4 evaporator and stainless steel flow pan set up from a guy who makes them in NH. Came with a small warming tank as well. I can't access the gallery or I'd post a picture but if you PM me an e-mail address I can send them to you. Nice work and I think it was less than $1200 for arch, Leader pipe adapter, 2 stainless steel flow tanks, stainless steel warming tank, all plumbed up, insulation blanket and firebrick included. You can get it made cheaper if you have access to the fire brick, etc. We had 11 taps out (this was our first time making syrup) and we only have time to boil on weekends so it worked out great for us. We ended up with 2.625 gallons for the season. Wife says a sugar shack is on the to-do list for this summer!
Rich
DMF
Was the guy from Plainfield nh who made the arch ? Andress ?
Bruno
I had a SS pan, 30"X 48" that was made by a welder buddy. I then had a 3/4 ' hub brazed into one corner for a drain valve. The whole thing just sat on an frame made of 2" angle iron. It held about 30 gallons of sap. The spaces between the legs I filled with sheet steel from an old oil tank along with a 6" chimney at one end. The other end we just closed off with another piece of sheet steel which we lifted off to add wood.
When burning we added about 5-8 gallon of sap/hour, then once it got to a certain stage we would let the fire die and drain off 10 gallons of thin syrup to go into a propane fired finishing pot. This had a 1/2" drain valve so we could put it through the filters ..
I say I had a pan, because last Tuesday someone drove up to the barn and loaded the pan into their pickup truck, leaving me with the frame which was frozen into the mud....
$1200 for an arch!!! :o I can't do that. I'm crying the blues about spending $200-250 for just a pan. But thank you. I have all the materials kicking around here. Firebrick I can get from work at a discount,chimney too.
I have my barrel evaporator I built last year with 2 pans. Never even used it. I'd give it to you Ray if you want, but you have to come get it. Add some fire brick and some insulation and you'd be good to go.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26694/008~2.JPG)
Thanks for the offer. But I need a spigot on each pan. Yes,I'm fussy,but this is for the wife. She is not to stable on her feet. Even on a good day. She can trip just walking across the living room floor. I sure don't want her tipping a pan up with hot maple syrup. A spigot cost about $40 at my cost,that is a SS one.
That sure does look good!!!!
Ray, just buy two of these from Amazon. Both would be less than $40. Drill a hole in the pans and install. You can't build something cheaper than the gas you use to get this one from me.
http://www.amazon.com/Boroux-Stainless-Steel-Spigot-Dispensers/dp/B0170M9DPS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 (http://www.amazon.com/Boroux-Stainless-Steel-Spigot-Dispensers/dp/B0170M9DPS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00)
Quote from: DeerMeadowFarm on April 11, 2016, 10:17:32 AM
I have my barrel evaporator I built last year with 2 pans. Never even used it. I'd give it to you Ray if you want, but you have to come get it. Add some fire brick and some insulation and you'd be good to go.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26694/008~2.JPG)
How would you brick up and insulate a barrel stove for syrup production? Inquiring minds and all that, because I have an old barrel evaporator that needs a new pan, and it's never been bricked or insulated. I haven't used it in years.
Hey Engineer,
Just google it or head of to Mapletraders.com. There are many methods that guys use to block up the back half to get the fire closer to the rear pan in a drum evaporator.
Rich