:P
I am about to enter into the wild world of portable sawmilling for fun and profit and have a few questions for those of you further down the track then me. I have been researching designs, and have narrowed the selection down to swing blade mills: the Peterson and Lucas.
Questions:
With the standard Peterson (the WPF) you have the option of one high track, to allow placement of the log by rolling it onto the skids which is handy if you don't have log lifting equipment on site. With one track on the ground, this means that your log support has to be maintained parallel with the track. The Lucas mill with both high rails allows fairly easy adjustment of the track to allow for taper in the log. Is this less of an issue then it seems? I don't want to have to be messing with a large log trying to get it parrallel and level with my tracks.
Peterson also sells a more portable frame (which looks like the Lucas system), the 'All Terrain'' but sell it as an entry level (low production) model. Has anyone tried one of these? Comments?
Are there any disadvantages with the 26" 10 inch cut blade on the larger Peterson aside from cost?
The Peterson advertises a double cut feature without rotating the whole head carriage - this coupled with the 10 inch cut seems a significant advantage. Any comments on this feature and it's real world usefullness?
Most of what I will be milling is 12 to 30 inch Douglas fir and Cedar in 8 to 20 foot sections (mostly framing/ decking/ siding - clears pulled out for finished lumber and dried), but there is a percentage of business around here involving large (4-5 foot width) old growth logs where one will have to set up around the log. Up front, I am impressed by the Peterson, but want to be aware if I am sacrificing any protability or ability to set up on rough(er) terrain over the Lucas design. While I may be able to set up on my own site for some of the milling, much of it will be at the customer's location, so the ability to set up quickly and accurately on varied sites is a must.
Any thoughts much appreciated!
Hey, Timo, welcome to the forum!
I can only speak of the Peterson 8" WPF, since that is the only mill I have run. I have the hi track option, but I don't use it. I set it up once and it seemed too wobbly. I know that it's probably supposed to be that way, and works just fine, but I just can't get around it in my head. Plus, you still have to move the middle support post out of the way. What I do, is stage the logs so they are uphill from the mill so that a short ramp ( random boards and blocks ) ends up level, making rolling the logs into the mill easy. If a log is too big to move around, the tracks can be moved. The tracks do need to be kept fairly level, but you can deal with the taper by setting up the log bunks in a way that lets the log lay the way you want. With big fir and cedar, you shouldn't find this too much trouble.
I think you will find too that the WPF can be set up almost anywhere. Once you get familiar with it, it is very transportable and versatile. Also I believe the capability of making double cuts without turning the mill is a definite advantage! The double cut procedure is a bit of a hassle to begin with. I can't imagine also having to turn the whole carriage around every time I wanted a board wider than 8"
Hope this helps,
George
Timo,
Welcome. I don't own a swing blade so I'll leave comments on your questions to others who know more. But I will say that you have taken the right first step by joining the forum. There is a lot of knowledge here to answer your questions.
Welcom Timo,
I will be watching this thread closely as I am a similar positionas you. I have been posting here for about 9 months now, while I have drafted my business plan. I am in the final stage of my market research and things are looking very positive.
I too am considering a swing blade saw for my operation. I have been contracting out my sawing and kiln services. My business has been reasonable given that I currnetly have only one species for sale; Oak.
Mark
AMS Kiln Dried Lumber
;)
Thanks for the warm welcome! Just trying to get as much info as possible before plunking down any money. Most of the custom milling done around here is with band saws, and while there may still be room in that niche, I'd rather be doing something different from the start. Lots of salvage opportunity as well what with all these nice riparian management zones that have been mandated in over the last 10 years. Wind doesn't seem to care if frogs live near by.......
Yes Timo, you have come to the right place. Congratulations on your research so far, hopefully we can help you with the rest of your questions. There are a fair number of swingers lingering here on the forum. Just for the record, I do work with Peterson Sawmills here in the US in mostly an aftersales and training mode, and I get around to the shows. I hope that we can also get some Lucas owners to check in with their experiences as well.
The "standard" Peterson WPF is a "Lo-Lo" track configuration. "Hi-Lo" track is an option at the time of purchase. The obvious reason for the high track is repetitive log loading, this is accomplished on the new models with a slide up middle support leg. The less obvious reason for the high track is to keep the track out of the sawdust, the low track on the offside (to the left of the operator) is right in the line of fire for the discharged sawdust when the blade is in the horizontal position. When operating "Lo-Lo" you are needing to move accumulated sawdust more often. Another comment, the high track supports have been improved since the build of Woodbeard's mill (I gotta send you some pictures, George). The track is very stable, almost as stable as operating in Lo-Lo. Your other question with the track system on the Peterson was in regards to compensating for log taper. Well, if you want to be able to compensate after the log is placed, advantage to Lucas with the ability to move the track ends individually. I find that most logs that I encounter do not need any more than 2" of taper compensation over the length. With the Peterson WPF this is easily done by adding material under the skids before placing the log, or after if you have a jack. Most times I do not bother, I put the low quality face up, and take out the taper on the bad face. Most of my logs have at least one.
Peterson ATS....exactly the same center unit and horizontal sizing as the WPF with all of the same blade sizes and engine sizes available. The difference being moving tracks like the Lucas, but less walking because the vertical adjustments are both on the same side. Taper compensation like the Lucas is still possible with a hand crank located on the oppesite side. Sweet mill, light and easily portable into the woods, or over just about any rough surface. More portability, only because of the weight of the saw unit without all of the extra frame of the WPF. The WPF can setup on equally rough terrain, although it requires more length than the ATS (6 feet longer standard tracks). Bottom line, all the same cuts can be made as the WPF, even comes with the same length track standard (20 foot capable) The major difference is the amount of walking required to lower the tracks. Another thought, the WPF has an optional electric winch so the unit may be lowered without leaving the operator's position.
20" blade disadvantages?? The only one I can think of is the extra weight being pushed around for every cut due to the larger frame size requirement. It is a manual mill, and there is a fatigue factor.
Double cuts are a place where the Peterson (any model) really shines. It is really quick and easy to double cut once the lower balde guard is removed. (2 nuts required....doing a lot of double cuts?? Use wing nuts) Although I do not double cut at EVERY job, it is important to be able to handle the larger cuts to satisfy more customers....many go crazy over the wide stuff. In the real world, I prefer cutting my hardwoods at a maximum of 8" to reduce cupping and splitting anyways, I find the really wide stuff harder to dry and control defect. I often end up making a 16" wide hardwood board into something smaller to eliminate defects.
I hope this information helps, and keep the questions coming. There are plenty of other Peterson and Lucas owners here, so I am sure there is more information on the way.
Captain
I can't help you with your sawmill study, but, Welcome to the forum Timo. I have a boy named Timo too. ;D
Hi Timo
I would pretty much agree with what Woodbeard has written.
The Peterson ATS is very similar to the Lucas mill in design. I believe the Peterson is better constructed and has a couple of nice features that put it ahead of the Lucas. There is nothing seriously wrong with the Lucas mills, I just think the Petersons are better.
The double cut is usefull IF you have a need for really wide boards / beams. I'd still guess that 99% of timber gets sawn down under 10" in the end.
My experience is that the WPF isn't quite as portable as the Lucas or ATS mills, but I can still haul mine to logs on a quad bike trailer ( OK it takes 2 loads ::) ) The Hi-Lo rail setup seems to work best when you can stage up a big stack of small / medium logs and roll them in under the rail. I use the Lo-Lo setup like Woodbeard as I'm usually moving the mill to the logs. There is a limit to what size log you can skid with a quad bike.
Lining up the taper in the log can be done by sitting the bunks on various boards to adjust their height. You can get a feeling for it by looking at the logs. Alternatively a high lift jack can be used to lift one end of a log and another board can be slipped in under one bunk.
I've set up my WPF is some interesting places, on dirt tracks, the side of hills etc. A selection of blocks and wood rings will support the rails easy enough. The rails MUST be parrallel to each other, reasonable level so you aren't cutting up and down hill too much, but if one rail is 4 inches lower than the other it's not a problem.
Ian
OK, so the ATS Peterson is very similar to the Lucas. Why such a difference in production numbers? Peterson's site rates this mill as a 900-1800 BF per day, where as the Lucas folks make a big point of 3000 BF+ per day. Now, I recognize that there is a lot of varience in these numbers but would expect both companies to be erring on the high side, hence end up with equal numbers.
I also don't see what makes the WPF twice as fast given that it has the same running gear - it can't all be in walking down to the other end frame to lower the tracks. I know that log loading/ board unloading has a lot to do with production, so am concerned about the impact of the mill setup on my options.
:D Great info, much thanks!
I anticipate that a lot of the milling I will be doing will be setting up the mill next to a deck of 12-20 foot 20 inch average Doug Fir and Cw as that is what we get off our private land around here (seeing as most of the big stuff was logged out 60 years ago). Henceforth, I had firgured that the hi track option would alow me to roll logs under the frame fairly easily. I guess you could also roll over the frame rail if you have very good support, but this strikes me as rather risky!
Also, as you say, if it is one log and you can't move it with availible equipment, then your only option is to set the mill up around it and go. This seem so favor the ATS, as setup and portability will factor larger then winching time differences in a one-tree-at-a-time situation. Lots to condiser. Anyone out there run an ATS Peterson? Are they that much slower? If so, why?
The ATS Petersons are not that much slower, especially for 2 people. They are a factor slower for one person because of all of the leg work required for the adjustments.
I hesitate to provide any production numbers for any sawmill, but here are a few for my 8" 24hp WPF.
My best time? 1040BF in 40 minutes of cutting. This was just 1 log, and the customer wanted 8x2.5s.
My best day with 1 helper? 3800BF in 7 hours, no equipment involved for log loading, stacking, or taking away waste.
My average day on a customer's site with customer provided labor (1 person) about 1300-1500 BF in 6-8 hours including setup, teardown and lunch. I did a job one evening last week with a particularly ambitious customer. 840 BF in 3.5 hours from the time I pulled in to the time I left. Average 14" pine, 8ft long cutting mostly 2x6s.
There are too many variables to consider, size of logs, are they staged, dirty, low quality, need trimming......The constant that everyone will tell you here (no matter the mill they run) is that the sawmill is rarely what slows you down, materials handling will. Keep the materials moving and the blade in the log, and the numbers go up. Don't get hung up on the production numbers manufacturer's claim...they are not in touch with reality. :)
Captain
Just another thought on the diffuculty of setup for that 1 big log....ATS vs WPF...
Parts breakdown...
ATS
2 Track Sections (4 if over a 14' log)
2 Cross skids
4 end stands
2 winch tubes (length of the track)
blocking for track adjustment
1 saw carriage
WPF (being run Lo-Lo)
4 track sections
2 cross skids
blocking for track adjustment
1 saw carriage
Yes the saw carriage is heavier on the WPF, but still easily moved by 2 people over rough terrain or through the mud. There is actually less to carry with the WPF, and Lo-Lo it sets up as fast as the ATS on equal terrain.. Just food for thought.
Captain
Hey there Timo. I have owned and operated both The Lucas and The Peterson mills In my opinion , the setting of taper thing on the Lucas is a little overated. Remember , you are the feed mechanism on these mills. When you set the rails on an angle, you will be increasing the amount of effort needed to push or pull the mill on an incline. I've done it and it sucks. I would much prefer shimming the log, and keeping the mill level. I never liked the hi-lo set up, and never used it much. I loaded logs over the right side low rail. Its nice to be able to get out and around the mill and log with the lo-lo set up.My opinion is that overall, the Peterson mill is a better cutting , stouter, more operator friendly machine, but I did cut good lumber on the Lucas mill too.
??? That is great input, I was hoping to un-earth someone with experience on both mills!
I can visualize what you are saying, but still have a hard time imagining myself there with a peave (cant hook) and a 16 foot, 24 inch wet fir log, trying to get it onto the bunks without hitting anything, or going to far and crushing the other rail. Maybe I'm a lout, but I try to never underestimate my ability to damage equipment in the heat of battle..... Still, I respect your having-done-it perspective far more then my gut fears. thanks
Timo, lay a 2X or something close on both sides of the rail and the log should not hit the rail.
Welcome to the Forum. I have nearly all the parts gathered up to build a Swinger, but, hurricanes and such have slowed down the project. We also built an oversized Band mill. Still think we have a need for both. ;D ;D :D :D
Timo, Welcome to the Forum! I'm sure you will soon be overwhelmed with the amount of information you can find in this place. I still get lost!! ;D
Jake has been having a read of this thread with keen interest and is itching to get tapping away but he's out in the factory playing with the mills and can't get on just yet. So I've been asked to pass on some info . . .
To answer your board ft question, as to why we are so much below Lucas's estimates, it's cause we have given a realistic number, and not just the best that you could possibly do. Ours is an average number per day, taking into account the weather, the quality of logs, helpers, etc etc. It might be a bit hard to maintain 3000+ ft per day when there are so many other variables involved, and that is what our estimate takes into account.
If you are wanting something comparible though, we took the ATS to the 2002 Portable Sawmill Shootout in Maine. Peterson's ATS had a 24 hp Honda on it while the Lucas had a 25hp Kohler. Peterson's ATS averaged 461 bf/hr and Lucas' averaged 333 bf/hr. Lumber Recovery for Petersons was 79% while Lucas's was 58%. Again lots of other factors, but there are some more figures to add to your research!!
Also, the ATS is only our entry level mill. We have bigger and faster models for the larger commercial side of things.
As people have said, there are lots of Peterson and Lucas owners on here so keep asking those questions.
I'm sure Jake will be along later to put in his two cents worth too .. .. . . . ;D
Ok, point taken regarding the posted production numbers on mills: I suspected it had more to do with perspective then hard data. So Peterson is selling the ATS as an entry level mill, rather then just a more portable alternative. I haven't seen the pricing on these yet (Local dealer just has prices posted for WPF mills) so I don't know the savings of the (simpler?) system. I don't think that the price difference will be a major factor for me unless it it huge, I am more concerned with matching the mill to my needs and intended market. As far as I can tell it falls out like this:
Lucas/ ATS high rail:
simple system
easy setup
less weight in the carriage
easy adjustment without moving log
less sawdust build-up issues
more labourious process (lots of walking)
WPF:
less labour (less walking for adjustment) in basic operation
log/ lumber more accessible (no upright frames in the way)
easy length increase (not limited by span of supports)
less side wobble of frames/ more robust setup
more setup required for parallel milling (logs must be level with rails - might mean moving logs)
I still don't understand why Lucas does not have a provision for double cutting (other then reversing the carriage) or a larger then 8 inch cut. I guess my decision is complicated by the fact that I am trying to achieve two opposing things - high production in stable operating conditions (lots of logs or bring logs to mill) and portable operation for one-log-at-a-time salvage milling. The one Peterson I have had the opportunity to view was set up in a warehouse, and had a large forklift to lift logs in over the rails - made sense, accept I don't see having support equipment all the time, and need to be sure I can make a workable situation out of a less then perfectly level site. I know from being around band mills that anything that supports a log and has to maintain level/ square (band saw trailer frames) can be a pain to setup and maintain.l
You seem to be getting a handle on it :)
QuoteI know from being around band mills that anything that supports a log and has to maintain level/ square (band saw trailer frames) can be a pain to setup and maintain.
Remember the log doesn't sit on the mill at all. The rails only support the mill frame and there is very little pressure on these while sawing. The line-up of the rails on uneven ground will take a couple of minutes and a selection of blocks.
The log sits either on the ground, if it's to big to move, or on a couple of simple wooden 'bunks' . You can adjust the bunks by slippping some boards or blocks under them, move them to suit log length, cut some different ones...You just need something to wedge the log in a steady position. I usually look at the log and the mill and decide which one is going to be more work to move. A 12" log I can drag alongside the mill and roll it up onto the bunks easy. A 36" log.. well Muhammed can go to the mountain :D
You are right about getting best production in a nice yard, with a forklift, good logs and a couple of helpers. The mills work great there. But they are truely portable, can be dragged off into the forest and set up / operated by one person. You just aren't going to saw 3000 bft a day by yourself with no log handling machinery.
Ian
Timo,
Welcome to the forum! :)
I am in the same boat as you except I have already made my decision and am in the process of saving the money up for it (I don't like debt hanging over my head so I make myself be patient). One thing that you may consider is that you could start off with the ATS and then buy an upgrade to the WPF later. This would allow you to convert to the WPF and then back to the ATS if the situation warrented. I have not seen all that is involved to know how easy or hard this is but just know that it is doable.
I have a WM lt20 now and I plan on hanging on to it to cut the wide boards. This is a manuel mill yet it is set up on a trailer and these can be found real cheap used. But I am like you in that I am trying to find a niche that not everybody else is already doing. ;)
God bless, Jeff
Timo, you mentioned a local dealer, I assume you mean Lou Brown? I think I remember something about changes he makes to the mills to optimise them for the wood in that area. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Captain, Oh great, another improvement since my mill was built ::) :D I got to see the new ones at the Fairview demo. Very nice. Saw yer rig there too, and was hoping you'd be there with it. Oh well, maybe another time.
I finally got it thru my thick head to try the simple wood bunks with square notches, and they work great! Having different size notches to compensate for taper is good too. I still use the fancy ones I built for smaller stuff, especially cedar (eastern) which is light and likes to move.
Welcome Timo, I really like my Lucas 618, I've had it for 2 years and have put 160 hrs on it. I'm by no means a production sawyer, more of a hobby. With a helper, I'm happy getting 100 to 200bf/hr cutting 1x, a little more on 2x stuff, can keep that pace all day. I've lost jobs to bandmills, cause alot of folks want wide boards. I hear Peterson has a new thinner blade, have you seen it in operation? How far up is Duncan, I'm only 3-4 hours South of the border, if'n ya wander far. Good luck, BWW
Funny you should mention that. I was just talking with the folks at Peterson today. I guess Lou is no longer representing them (at least directly). My efforts to contact him have come up empty handed, although the phone still has a message saying "Peterson mills" which is a bit misleading....To bad, it would be nice to have a dealer on the west cost of Canada! Given the utility, I think these mills are under-represented here.
Fortunately Rex from Peterson was able to answer the questions I had regarding the different models and such which has filled in the gaps in my knowledge and added to the good wisdom from this site. I was interested to hear that the 10" cut operates a bit slower then the 8" mill, is substantially heavier, and has a wider kerf. It all makes sense of course, but the details are important. With the ability to double cut, I may be able to get away with the 8 inch blade. It is just a question of how much 8"+ material I will be cutting.
At any rate, I do see a big pile of sawdust in my future, which is good 8)
BW_Williams,
Duncan is just over the boarder, but on Vancouver island or "the Island" as we locals call it (but don't they all :D). I do get down your way now and then as I have a bit of an addiction to bending my old BMW motorbike down Oregon's coastal backroads, and the company I work for does some business in Washington. Glad to get your input on the Lucas, which I have coveted for many a year. A decent unit indeed. What is your take on the need to cut larger dimensions?
Gidday everyone,
I'd just like to add a few things, in regard to the 10" machine.
The Kerf increase from the 8" model is around 1mm and it does cut just a little slower, also a little heavier to push. What it does offer is some incredible flexabillity over other saws. The 10" machine is the only circular that I know of that can cut 10"x20" beam straight from a log (not that you'ld be wanting to handle them). In my opinion this machine is one of the key points that set the Peterson aside from all the rest, no one else makes a 10" model.
The new 'microkerf' blade makes real since on this machine as it takes a blade that has a kerf of around 6mm and almost halves it. So on days that your needing production/recovery slap the thin blade on and go for it. The days your needing more flexabillity put your standard blade on. All in all you've got way more option with a 10". My 8" keeps me happy, though there has been days where customers have asked me to cut 10" stock, lucky for me I can ask dad if I can borrow a 10" mill for the weekend :).
The 10" model for the first time was entered in the most recent shootout, it did well considering it's heavier kerf and bigger blade, infact I'm pretty sure it came in second for production (10" 24hp), just under the Lucas (8" 27hp). Just a few board feet seperated them. Theory would put the less hp/bigger blade way under but to our suprise it didn't (wasn't there but I heard the Lucas operator was a big fellow AND a kiwi at that). I think woodmizer still holds the results on their sight some where.
All out of breath now... I mean fingers ::).
Cheers, Jake.
Howdy, Jake. Haven't seen you on here much, lately. Yer probably workin waaaay too hard. Missed seein that AMS your guys had in Moultrie. Good to hear from you.
Haven't heard about the thin kerf 10inch blade; how does it work, what are the tradeoffs?
Talking with other owners, I am hearing the following tradeoff with the 10" vs 8" discussion:
10 inch difficult to move around with one person (loading in truck, wheeling to tracks, etc). Also harder to push back and forth all day. Perhaps underpowered for the size of blade (could use 35 HP?). Also goes out of adjustment faster then 8, which goes out adjustment faster then the 6 inch mill.
For me, portability and the viablity of single operator cutting is critical, so I am asking myself how many 10" cuts I will need to make. In this case the double cut becomes critical, and it is hard to visualize how much of a hassle this can/ will be (remove guard, raise mill, move, lower mill, reverse cutting pattern). More to think about......
Hi Timo
The 10" thin kerf blades that Jake is talking about use a much larger arbor / hub to support the centre of the thinner blade. The down side is they wont cut 10" any more (I think it reduces cut to 8" ? ) The up side is it cuts faster and makes less sawdust. If you need to cut 10" it only takes a couple of minutes to change the blade back to the standard one.
If you want some REALLY wide boards you can allways go for a clip on slabber, a BIG chainsaw bar that bolts on in place of the circle blade.
The double cutting is definately a bit more hassle, but not hard work as such. Also if you are cutting 12x2s or similar you dont have to cut many an hour to get reasonable production figures. Your offloader may have a different opinion on the 'hard work' comment of course :D
Ian
Hey Timo, welcome to the board.
Is that Timo as in, I should have said "Päivää Timo, Mitä kuuluu?" :D
I have been looking at swing blade mills also, I came to the conclusion early on that 'portable' is a truly subjective term.
What is highly portable to one person is nearly immoveable to someone else.
:)Sorry the name might be Finnish, but the owner is not. Some blood line, but no cultural ties unfortunately!
Everything is relative isn't it? One man's axe is another man's hatchet. Frankly, the terms 'production mill' and 'portable' are resolutely headed down opposite directions on the same path. It's all a big, fat compromise at some point.. You still have to get the wood out don't you? If it is valuable enough to pack/ fly/ build road for that, then the mill can go in on the same terms.
My cut off point is this:
Can unload/ setup/ reload with one person (ok, one sweaty, cursing person)
Can manoeuver over challenging terrain with two people - not talking cliffs or helicopter slash here, but not something you would drive your truck on either.
Still sets up quick
Can justify cost with production at average per 1000snd rates in area.
Murf, I agree that "portable" is subjective, but when it comes to most swing mills I think portable is a fair statement. I have a Lucas 618 and I can load it into the back of my shortbed pickup (with a ladder rack) by myself in about 20 minutes. It is true that with the Lucas, pushing the sawhead up ramps is a challenge, but the Peterson has a much easier system that presents no such problems. Also keep in mind that I'm not a big guy 5'-5" 160 lbs.
Thin Kerf...available in both the 10" and 8" mill sizes. Both of them have the reinforcement boss as mentioned by Ian, and both are reduced to a maximum 6" cut. Kerf is so little over 1/8" that it is not worth mentioning :)
It really does increase the cutting speed, reduced effort and just like getting 50 percent more horsepower. Tradeoff? Maximum size of cut.
I am not so sure about the statement that the 10" go out of adjustment more than say the 8" or 6" mills. It is true that the same mechanical amount of adjustment imperfection will show up easier on the 10", In my experience I would not say that a 10" mill needs to be adjusted more than or is any less robust than say a 6" mill.
Sounds like you are geting the information that you need, this is a great place to research.
Captain
Timo,
I have a Lucas 613. I've cut a lot with this little mill and I like it, but I think it's underpowered. It has the Honda 13HP. You'll find yourself wanting to walk through your cuts a lot faster than this engine will cut. Because of this, I'm up grading to a 23 hp motor(to the tune of about $1400). Needless to say: get enough power on your initial buy.
If you think you will be sawing a lot of wide boards, having to turn the saw head around is a issue. I've had to build an overhead hand crane over my sawmill in order to quickly turn my head around when I'm sawing alone, which is 99% of the time.
From what I've read, you've gotten enought good advise to make a good decision. Good Look
DakotaSwinger
Timo,
Welcome welcome welcome - you have found the best forum online!
I've come in a bit late on this and am now happy a few Lucas operators have joined the convo.
Firstly the disclaimer :D ;) I haven't operated a Peterson, I only have opinion regarding Peterson based on my pre-purchase resaerch and the promo info, I own the Lucas 618 with a slab attachment and weatherboard attachment. Have never experienced a mill, until running my Lucas and have offered my operating opinions whilst using my Lucas (although I'm still new to things)
Some of the things I've found;
production is lost with log handling - loading the mill anywhere up to 75 min a log - all log moving done with cant hook, steel bar and branch offcuts (I'm 6'2" 230 lbs for perspective - not bragging :D)
the milling runs as fast as I can manage - 3 cubic metre log (1275 bft I think) 6X2 sleepers 2.0 hours on the engine clock, but Timo you would already have realised cutting this size is great for numbers.
Cutting full depth timber (6x2's) requires two half depth cuts - not sure if this is the same for Peterson. But it isn't something Lucas portray in their promo info (this is my only sour point of my purchase)
Milling is hard work:D
Double thickness boards doesn't require lifting equipment or an offsider, you can park the switched off mill on the log face (with blade horiz) and lower the rails, then turn the carriage 180 deg bring rails back to original position and keep cutting - no worrisome removing of safety guards - I've got all my fingers but not all of my legs so am very focused on safety
Vital set-up and operation elements seem to be 'lacking' in Lucas info (such as how the slabbing attachment goes on the mill) and requires calls for assistance to sort out. After talking to my local rep who actually uses his hardware in the field I had no troubles whatsoever, but just couldn't get by on the supplied paperwork, this may be due to me never being around a mill prior to buying and unpacking one, but I think this could be addressed by Peterson's instructional, hands-on day with new buyers.
Milling is hard work ;D
I do wish I had bought the model 8 - sleepers at 6" is adequate but not standard.
Powerhead seems fine for the machine, but do feel an 8" machine is well served with the bigger horses -although no experience with an 8"
I did seriously look at both manufacturer's very closely for sometime before making my purchase, (difference in $'s at that stage wasn't an issue for me - I had money to burn :D ;D)and personally (not wanting to lose any friends, just my opinion :)) I felt the Lucas was a little easier to adjust and work with. The Lucas rails (the heaviest single bit of the kit - I know the powerhead is heavier but the wheels make it very easy to move) can be picked up and shifted by one fella - the Peterson rails seemed to be a good deal heavier (maybe someone can let me know - the 6m Lucas rails are 33kg) and as a single operator (with my leg issues) how much work I have to do is a big factor, right up there with safety and not removing blade guards and running the blade backwards to access features.
I hope this helps out Timo.
One last thing I'd like to add - "opinions are like ars.. um armpits, everyone has a couple and they generally stink" edited from Sgt. Rozitez, basic training.
8) Well, just put in an order for an 8" Peterson WPF 27hp mill. Hope to see the chips fly in about 10 weeks or so... January - what have I gotten myself into!??! ::) :o
Seriously, thanks for all the advise and opinions - very helpful in making a decision - I'll be back on this in a few months to curse you all ;) ;D
I'm sure I'll have more questions to. Wish me luck!
Well Congratulations. Did you purchase a small or large frame?? This is a good time of year to start cutting the logs you will need in January to keep that sawmill busy....
Keep the questions coming.
Captain
I ended up going for the large frame for two reasons:
1) big trees, or the hope there of! - we still have some old growth lurking around here somewhere, and some surprisingly large second growth as well.
2) more room between rails for operator - not much experience here, but it looks to me like lots of room for good footing is not a bad thing. The last thing I want is to trip on the return cut and have to stop that big blade with me teeth or something!
I guess the penalty is extra weight (and expense) but I do think I will use it now and then. Actually, I just viewed the first deck of logs I'll be staring down the throat in a few months, and one of them looks a tad over 48" at the butt. Can't wait. My first order of business will be cutting the lumber for my house and shop so by the time I hope to be charging others, I should have a handle on what I am doing.
It's always hard ordering something like this when you don't have the experience to say exactly what you will need, but the advise I received here made a big difference, and has added confidence to my decisions.
Went for some extra track as well - Looking forward to producing some nice 30' 8x16 beams for a shop. Anyone looking for work as an off-loader? :D ;D
If you're buying one these swing blade mills to try to make money and I hope you can; then, you will be out on milling sites where the logs might not be uniformly set up on skids, probably laying on the ground and you don't own a tractor or a knuckle boom or winch lines, etc., etc., and the customer doesn't set the logs up properly or help (which is usually the case); you will need additional support equipment of some kind to make your work safer and more productive. I own the WPF 8". I feel it's the most versatile and the rpm is a higher speed than the 10" model. That rpm helps when you're running the slabber. I've sawn on skid timbers and it got ugly, fast. I'm not going to say anymore about that, just be very careful. Desperate to make my investment pay off and work smart I developed some very efficient and affordable equipment you might be interested in some of it. It's on my website on the Industrial Fabrication page. I know what it means to make an investment like this and want to get sawing. Make your decision wisely base it on your true honest projection of what you will be doing the most. The swing blade sawmill is genius. I wish I had thought of it. But they have their unique situations. The wobbly high track can be overcome with a couple of end supports and beefing up the connection between the bracket and the cross beam. A piece of wood is supplied with the WPF. I built an aluminum beam to replace it. I use the high-low set up most of the time. The new style center support takes about a minute more than the old swing out of the way style. I use a piece of inch thick plywood with a hole cut in it for the peg to keep the foot from sinking into the ground and that eliminates some of the fuss when resetting the upright. I recommend swing blade sawmills to anyone who doesn't have all the heavy equipment mentioned above. The two best known brands have their unique attributes. Price might be the one you consider the most. But I say "Buy the best, you only cry once!". Best of luck.
fabrik,
Looking at the pictures on your website, it looks like you have your skids set up to put two logs in at the same time. Is that correct and do you saw two logs together often?
Also, welcome to the forum 8) Looks like you will have alot to contribute here.
Good to see you Mike ;) You've been busy!!
Captain
Thanks for the welcome. I don't get alot of time to spend here, but enjoy it when I do. You can saw 2 logs at once on the double bunks, but the logs are usually smaller and ones that don't need to be double cut. As we've all probably found out by now, it isn't the large logs that are a problem, it's the small diameter and making them pay has been difficult. Most of the time is spent handling the log with very little recovery. With my bunk system there's nothing left. Because the timber is dogged down, I don't need the side slab being left in the log. That slab has lumber in it too. With my bunk system I'm now getting on the average 95-105% recovery, IR, on average 2 sided logs. Obviously you can put one log on at a time if you want to double cut.
Hey Craig-I wanted to show you what I've been up to, but my ash can't catch up to my feet right now. Will get back to you as soon as I can with some spectacular shots of sawmilling. Got the website up alittle early, and have a lot more to do, but it's easier for Ardis to work on it online. We'll be adding more and more stuff every week, but by the first of the year should have fairly complete portfolio online. Hope all is well your way.
fabrik
Do you have a donkey that is chasing you? :o
Only one official swear word here. That be the DanG DanG one. ::) ;D
Ok, I'll change my vocabulary. More contemporary of course.Thanks Mike.
Hey Timo, Where's Duncan at? Used to live in AK, went thru Litton, Lilloete, Frazier River, Devil's Gourge on our way South of course. Loved BC. They love the Yanks there! Saw good wood, man. See ya soon.-Mike
Fabrik:
Thanks for the input, I agree that getting the logs in efficiently, and holding them in place seems the biggest problem with this design. I might have a bobcat availible part time, and am considering other equipment, but want to make sure I understand my needs before putting out more $.
Quote:
"I developed some very efficient and affordable equipment you might be interested in some of it. It's on my website on the Industrial Fabrication page."
I'm most interested in what you have designed but couldn't get the link to open on your web site (is it just me? :() I'll keep trying.
Timo-try this:http://www.fabrik.us/industrial_fabrication.htm
If that doesn't work, just let me know and I'll email some pictures directly to you. Just getting the website up and it's being worked on everyday so maybe you tried while we were fixing something.
Fabrik, nice loader. I have a hi-lift and I've had the same idea for a while now (honest, I have), but haven't gotten around to building anything. I also thought that if the two pivot points are pretty well anchored, you could use a chain between the two. You aren't too far from me. I'm in Lynchburg and I come out to that area from time to time (mostly to go see my Hokies kick butt).
I have invested more in the development of these simple useful implements than I care to relate here. But, my patent log books clearly reflect the timing, effort and expense. This equipment is built to help strong honest men scratch out a living. Ideas are great. Bringing them to fruition is another story. I offer my swing blade portable sawmill support equipment for sale with pride and the knowledge that it's well made, affordable and will not let people down. Look for more information about our products in Sawmill & Woodlot and Southern Lumberman magazines and at www.fabrik.us We will also be at logging and sawmill expos in 2005. Hope to see you there.
So Hkiemill, I remember that discussion, now ya kickin yourself :D :D
fabrik
Ideas are great. Bringing them to fruition is another story.
Hope all that patent and r&d pays off for ya! ;)
Duncan is on Vancouver Island.
I managed to get on you site for a look, but had to use Explorer - my usual browser, Firefox wouldn't let me look at the pictures. Great equipment, in particular the bunk loading ramp. Good luck with your marketing and sales, you might be getting a call from me as well in the spring when I better know my needs.
Innovation is a wonderfull thing!
Thanks Timo,
Anytime I can be of help, just let me know. I love BC, haven't made it to Vancouver Island yet. It's on the list of things to do. Thanks-Mike