For over 5 years I've been sawing softwood at 250/thousand and hardwood at 300/thousand.
During those 5 years I have learned to use my mill to saw wood for different markets. I can make a ton of money on just log flower boxes which pays way more than sawing lumber. This is just 1 example.
I am gonna raise the sawing per bf on anything over 12 foot.
I know some of you do it already for the reason it just takes more manpower. time and equipment use.
One thing I can do is to turn anything away thats over 12 foot and recommend another sawmill. Knowing where ALL the sawmills are in my area and how they saw, if I did recommend them, the drive would be rediculas for a customer to take his logs over 12 foot to them.
So what would be a fair price to saw over 12 foot?
2-1/2 days a week I have help, the rest of the time I work by myself, I can do it by myself with just me and my backhoe....but its tough, especially when logs get to 16-20 length.
So what is you price recommendation or what are you charging?
Thanks Y'all.
I've been at 30 for a while now with no complaints David.
You could look to charge by the hour??
I personally like sawing the long stuff, the board feet add up faster, assuming relatively straight logs with minimal stress :D ;D
In most cases I leave pine logs at 17' saw them and load onto a trailer, then zip in half and stack on my 8' piles (then again I have a helper, heavier equipment and its my own wood/lumber)
$350 and I provide an off bearer.
Quote from: LittleJohn on April 28, 2016, 08:42:42 AM
You could look to charge by the hour??
Not an option. To many people coming into the yard to pick up lumber, buy benches, birdhouses, etc. and dropping off logs.
I have a manual mill on a homemade trailer and really have no problem with logs up to 24" diameter & 16' long. I always try to set up with my logs on a good roll way that is about the same height as the mill, I also have a homemade turner powered by a 12 volt winch. The turner uses a hinged arm to lift the log and turn it from below rather than using a cable and a roll hitch like many do. I started out sawing on the ground and using my tractor to turn big stuff and hated it, waste too much time getting on and of the tractor. Your price is more than fair so maybe go up a little and spend some money to make things easier. Sounds like you saw in one location and have the logs trucked to you so some sort to live deck, a good turner, and a few rollers could ease the burden. Does not take many big fat 16'ers to make a good days pay.
Dave,
Novel idea. Are you doing any mobile sawing or only at your site? I typically charge $.30/bf for good, normal logs or $60/hr for specialty sawing or small, short logs. No difference if hardwood or softwood. Nearly all mine is hardwood. Customer provides labor at those rate or $.35/bf I dead stack and $.40/bf if I stack and sticker. I'd rather just saw and let him provide labor. I don't get a lot of long logs and have never thought much about it. 16' is normally as long as my customers want although once in a while they will want a longer 2X8 or such for making a 20' beam or such. I'm not ready to change my rates for longer stuff right now.
I have thought about a different rate for wide stuff that I sell. I am thinning a few poplars off my place and currently have a customer who wants nearly all 1X12 and first wanted them 16' long. Takes a big tree for me to provide that. Turned out he only needs 4-1X12X16's and okay if the rest are 8' 1X12's which are lots easier to provide. That still leaves me with the upper logs and such to cut for other customers. I don't like to store much lumber as I have no support equipment to handle it.
If I get may more calls for buying wide lumber I may raise those rates. I like cutting long, wide boards if its the customer's logs.
I weighted the Pros and cons of BFT vs PH, as I seldom get good sized or quality logs I have went by the hour. Was $70 per hour with helper provided, thinking of bumping it up a little. Most of my customers are looking for widest boards so have not had to worry much on cutting to size. Last job I bucked logs to length, sawed fire wood with chain saw, cut down a Sassafras tree, quartered sawed larger trees. Cut stickers Never sat down and figured how many board feet cut. Would guess around 1000-1100 board feet. Billed job for 10 hours plus mill delivery fee. Would have lost if charged by board foot.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13244/20160420_184542.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13244/20160420_184414_28229.jpg)
I am stationary. I do not travel.
i'd sure do it, make surcharges up for 14-16 and 18-20 feet. Make 'em think twice about giving you long logs so they can cut the lumber in half & make sure you get paid for the extra work of handling both logs & lumber.
I dislike cutting long when I have to help handle the wood (not usually, except the edging). Also cutting accurate gets more time consuming as length goes up.
Hackermatack, have you posted pictures or anything about your log turner? I couldn't find anything and I'd like to see how you made it.
I have not posted any pictures of it or even taken any for that matter. Next time I saw, maybe tomorrow I will. Not doing much milling rite now but I have a couple of burls I want to carve up. I don't have anything big to put to show how it works but I think it is pretty easy to figure out. The winch that I run it with has a wireless remote which works great when I'm alone because I can work the log some with a peeve while operating the winch. I sawed some 18' pine this spring and some of them were a easy 24" top end I had a helper but could have done it alone, he ran the peeve while I ran the winch. Sawed a lot of 8 x 12's out of them when the were finished we just tipped them off the back side of the mill onto some skids and moved them with the tractor.
I have slowly but surely developed a price range . Mostly based on portable sawing . Length and over size 36+" I charge more sometime allot more . 350 a thousand for 12 and over is good but everything better be in order and plenty of help etc. If it's all on me and I need to hire help etc. I go up bye the nickle per BF soft or hard wood . Hourly is good to but I usually save that rate for the disaster jobs.
An old engine lift with a winch on it makes for an easy log Turner.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC03984~0.JPG)
Quote from: Kbeitz on April 28, 2016, 07:30:17 PM
An old engine lift with a winch on it makes for an easy log Turner.
.......and that calculates into how much per bf over 12 foot?
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on April 28, 2016, 04:06:39 PM
i'd sure do it, make surcharges up for 14-16 and 18-20 feet. Make 'em think twice about giving you long logs so they can cut the lumber in half & make sure you get paid for the extra work of handling both logs & lumber.
I dislike cutting long when I have to help handle the wood (not usually, except the edging). Also cutting accurate gets more time consuming as length goes up.
I think when you get out past 16' it falls into the specialty sawing category anyway. At least where I live lumber yards don't stock any lumber over 16' so you have to order ahead and pay a premium. As for good strait smooth 16' logs under 24" I like to saw them, takes the same amount of time to turn and dog a 16' as a 8. For me it is way ahead of 8' pole wood.
Many years ago, when I was sawing at something like 50 cent per bdft, I had a higher rater for short stuff, long stuff and other factors. But that higher rate was only 5 cents per bdft.
Then this customer came in with a load of firewood chunks and wanted some 5/4 out of it for flooring for some future barn.
It was very difficult to cut all these short small pieces.
I got pithed off and said never again for this short money.
So I raised my rates by half of what I get for anything shorter than 8' and longer than 16', as I can cut up to 22' with my 6' bed extension.
Now if they want the short stuff cut, I will do it but I get paid good for it.
It takes time to add a fence or deck to the mill in order to hold/clamp a short small piece.
Sometimes that fence board gets cut. Sometimes the deck board gets broken.
But I figure that I'm getting paid for these boards by charging the higher rate.
The carpenter from Boston who's cherry log I cut the other day, (and posted about it in the "what are you sawing" thread) said he had called another mill and told them it was 5' long. And they said that they wouldn't cut anything shorter then 8'. So I got that job because I would cut short stuff. But he paid for it.
Jim Rogers
Thanks Jim. :)
Jim,
With the short stuff I drop back to my hourly rate so I get compensated accordingly. That's what its for.
Maybe you could work out a linear foot price with the curve steepening as the lumber gets longer. I know that the lumber yard prices are more per bf as the boards get longer.
I use an over-length price scale, only my cutoff is a little higher than you're talking about ;D.
Just to give you a feel, though ...
8' to 20' = standard rate.
20' to 32' -- add $0.06 to the standard rate for every foot of length over 20;
If the log is over 26' -- add an additional surcharge of $0.50 per BF.
So a 32 foot log has a surcharge of (32-20) x $0.06 + $0.50 = $1.22 per BF :o.
You can adapt this to any size range you want.
People pay that kind of money, and here's why. Nobody else within a 5 hour round trip can supply those lengths. When someone asks if I can do 24' or 30' or more, they're so darn happy that I can do it they really don't care about the price.
Oh yeah, about those short logs ... I never saw anything under 8' long. If a customer brings a 5' log, I just tell him/her it's an 8' log as far as my mill is concerned ;D.
We don't do a lot of contract sawing and when we do I tend to quote based on the logs presented... send me good logs and I'm cheaper then if you send me snot that belongs in a firewood heap. My time is worth money and if it takes me longer to cut them you get to pay more kinda thing.
Lengthwise my rate doesn't change from 0-19', surcharge after that though after a recent job I think I'm going to do like Brucer and say anything under 8' is 8', and anything under 12" diameter is 12".
Selling boards we have a discount for lengths under 8' in most sizes to clear them, standard rate from. 8 to 15', 5% jump from 15 to 19, another 7.5% from 19 to 24', and after that it's POA, meaning call me and I'll decide how bad I need the money. I don't mind cutting longs but the oversaw required to straighten them has to be paid for
My question came from this.
I can line a whack of 8 footers up at the lifting arms and "get on down the road".
Nothing to it...Logrite Cant Hook those logs right up as I need them.
But when I get to the longer logs, especially 16-20....and the board footage is around 320 or more.....I have to use the backhoe to move them up. Plus removing 16-20 foot slabs can be challenging at times.
Then these 16-20 foot boards (white Oak especially) takes 2 people. So then I have to schedule these jobs to be sawn when my off bearer can work.
Its just common sense to charge more for longer logs.
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on April 29, 2016, 05:16:46 AM
My question came from this.
Plus removing 16-20 foot slabs can be challenging at times.
I must confess when I am sawing alone my slabs tend to be pretty thin, takes a few extra cuts but I also get a few extra short boards.
I know you said /hr does not work for you because of customer distractions but maybe charge off the hour meter, if the engine is running you must be working. I don't do much custom work but what do is by the hour. If someone wants to pay me to saw difficult logs they pay dearly and I tell them so up front. Before I had a mill I used to hire a guy about once a year he charged by the hour and I made darned sure I set it up rite for him. I even separated my logs by size so he could saw the small 8' logs two at a time.
Quote from: btulloh on April 28, 2016, 04:09:58 PM
Hackermatack, have you posted pictures or anything about your log turner? I couldn't find anything and I'd like to see how you made it.
Add me to the list as well Hackermatack. I'd love to see your turner.
I saw by the bd ft only. For a while, I tried MM's suggestion of by the lineal foot. Some people just don't understand a board foot. I used a sliding scale based on log size, but that just confused customers even more. For someone with one or 2 logs in his pickup truck, I sometimes make a wild guess and quote a flat price. Anything over 20 ft, I send up the road to LeroyC, he has an extension on a lt40 superhd...
When I'm working alone and sawing long logs, I cut the slab in half, at least, before I try and carry it off the mill.
Sometimes even with my helper here we cut them in half or even thirds to make carrying them off easier.
Hardwood goes to the chop saw table to be cut up for my firewood.
Softwoods are hauled out to the chip-grinder to be made into fuel for the electrical power plant in southern NH. I have two different guys wanting my softwood waste.
They will even come here and pick it up.
Jim Rogers
Quote from: Jemclimber on April 29, 2016, 07:50:50 AM
Quote from: btulloh on April 28, 2016, 04:09:58 PM
Hackermatack, have you posted pictures or anything about your log turner? I couldn't find anything and I'd like to see how you made it.
Add me to the list as well Hackermatack. I'd love to see your turner.
OK I am going to start a new thread so not to hijack this one completely.
Quote from: Hackermatack on April 29, 2016, 11:01:53 AM
OK I am going to start a new thread so not to hijack this one completely.
Carry on...I'm finished. :D
I did start a new thread and got a couple of pictures but I am having a heck of a time figuring out how the picture posting works. I got them into my gallery (twice) but have trouble navigating the rest of it.
Quote from: Hackermatack on April 29, 2016, 05:22:48 PM
I did start a new thread and got a couple of pictures but I am having a heck of a time figuring out how the picture posting works. I got them into my gallery (twice) but have trouble navigating the rest of it.
Try this: https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61788.0.html
If you got to the part where you can see the picture you want to show on your screen
you can then move down the page and there will be a spot that says insert picture
in post... Click on it...
Most of the logs I saw are 16' and I always saw solo. I just slide the slabs off or the log and they fall next to the mill. I then pick them up with my front end loader and haul them to the slab pile when enough slabs are there to make a load on the forks. I drag back each board and slide it onto the stack lifting only one end at a time. Since it takes more time to saw 16' I have more time to stack 16' boards.
Some times when sawing 2" oak for trailer decking I will through and through the cant and pick it off of the mill with the front end loader.
It works well for me.