Well gentlemen, pleased to meet you all. I've been watching your travels for over a year now (gww in particular), and it's time.
Name is Dave, aka Pic, hailing from Timmins, Ontario, Canada (we have lots of wood). A bodyman by trade, I moved back to my roots in the country. I work for the local municipality, and as a pastime, I build stuff! On the short list is many a collision repaired vehicles, sleds, motorcycles, a house and tons of bits of furniture and tshirts. Talk to my wife, I have adult ADD, I'm good with it most of the time.
I've seen how easy it is to build your own mill, lol, so away we go. I've studied every commercial mill out there, read builds here and other forums. I've been stockpiling parts and materials here and there. Sledding season is over and the 6 wheeler is out. So in between work and cleaning a winters worth of two dogs business, I am building a bandsaw mill. A bare bones, no dicker, all manual, portable, somewhat, mill. I call it the NBNW Mill. (No Bells No Whistles)
I came across a pile of old parking sign post at work in the fall, so I'm going with that. It's 2" and 2 1/4" stuff full of holes that sleeves together. Brings me back to my youth and my favorite meccano set. Picked up some 7/16" ready rod, some pillow bearings, some shafting, and a couple trailer tires, a cold 12 pack and locked myself in my "lab" (basement workshop), for a couple days on spring break. Built carriage, rebuilt carriage and modified carriage two more times, lol. I have some photos on the camera in basement that I'll post this weekend for the visual guys. She's going to be a 13hp, trailer tire model with cable boat winch raise/lower, 36" wide carriage, 20" capacity (24" log) that will run on two 10' rails with 6 log dogs.
I'm glad I found this forum and can't wait to share my trials and tribulations with y'all!
I'll be watchen....
Welcome to The Forestry Forum...
Couldn't wait. Pic of carriage. Little on the lighter duty side I know. But mostly proof of concept. If I get this to work, my wife won't mind me spending some real cash on some real steel.
(Photo posting learnt and posted below.)
Gotta work on posting photos, sry for external link. Thanks Kbeitz.
Okay, first, welcome.
Now second. Real good idea to read the rules to save some future administrative type contact. Your first post you used a word desined to get around the censored words program on the forum. What we call pseudo swearwords. Not allowed. This truly is a family site. Not profanity or simulated profanity is allowed.
Third, photos must be in jpg format and located in your gallery. Using the document uploader and changing a photo to pdf format to use it is also not allowed. There is a posting photos topic that will help you learn to do that, or you can simply ask someone.
My apologies, won't use the $ again. And I'll search for photo posting, Thank you.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image.jpeg)
Huh, look what a little reading can do. Don't mind my mess, it's mine, all mine. Here is a pic of the carriage.
Good job on picture posting.
Looks like you've got a good start on your build project.
Keep up the good work.
Herb
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Picky2016.
What size blades are you going to use?
Just to be fair, before I got to this point, I did a ton of drawings and math. A lot of formulas that I argued with my grade 9 math teacher that I would never use again in my lifetime. I picked up some 16" trailer tires. I will run it with a Princess Auto (Canadian version of Harbor Freight) Chinese 13hp. 3.5" centrifugal clutch to a 8" driven pulley. 1" superior chrome shafting running on two pillow blocks per side with tensioning adjustments. I figured out it will run 1.25" 0.75 pitch 120" blades. After some Internetting one evening, found an Ontario guy that will custom make any length blade. Sent him an email with specs, two days later, voilà, 2 blades at my doorstep. Just bolting it all together as I go, will tear down, weld and paint before the big day.
Welcome to the forum! There's at least a few of us that frequent the forum almost daily that have built our own mills so I'm guessing if and when you run into a problem there'll be good help and probably a few different suggestions to accomplish the same end result. Options are always good, right? Looks like a good start you have there.
Doing and re-doing things when building a mill seems to be the norm. :D
Thanks Ox, the norm here, or in life? Both in my case, lol.
I had some cast Teflon wheels in the shop so I had them turned with a groove in them to run on angle iron rails.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image.jpg)
My carriage which assembly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~0.jpg)
Pillow block tensionners.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~2.jpg)
My stub shafts. I wanted this thing to run as true as possible. I designed end plates on AutoCAD and sent file to plasma guy neighbor. Dropped off plates that afternoon when I told him I was building a saw mill. No charge because he may want to use it some day, lol. I had the plates welded and then faced true on a lathe. You might notice when I say DIY, I mean Do It Yourself while cashing in some machine shop favours!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~3.jpg)
Getting excited at this point. Installed some pulleys and cable for winch, installed tires to get a peak at progress. Measured for blade length and as faith would have it, 120" bang on. Thank You Archamedes.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~4.jpg)
I think you may need to stiffen it up a bit and add some bracing. When I started mine it was similar to what you have. Now the head has 4 posts and every place where it wouldn't get in way I added a 45 degree brace. It still flexes more than I would like.
Geez, you're really flying along! Well done. I agree with what Joe Hillmann said. You're going to be surprised the amount of flexing that will happen. Think triangles wherever you can put braces. Double bolting where possible is also nice.
You're very fortunate to have machining places close by willing to barter. That's fantastic and I hope you feel blessed in this way. Those "holed" tubes you're using must be pretty nice to work with, right? How thick are they? I'm guessing around 1/8"? You may find you need to plate some higher stress areas. I hope not for simplicity's sake.
Thank you for putting up all the pictures. Someone will see your build and glean some info from it, which is great. People helping people in this forum is the best. This is the best place on the internet.
Is your winch cable lifting both sides ?
Thanks guys, yes spreading and absorbing a little knowledge here and there is the key to all. I will be gussetting the uprights for sure and the top of carriage also. Seems like flying along but I did all this last month, just posting pics when I can. The winch cable runs down, across and up other side via two pulleys. I tried it and there was a bit of ratchetting side to side, but when I installed engine weight, it settled down fairly well.
Pulley on one side.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~1.jpeg)
You can see cable routing in this one.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~0.jpeg)
I suspect that you are going to need to do some serious bracing and maybe even doubling/sandwiching everything that you have. Tensioning a blade and pulling it through a log can/will give your frame a workout. Any flexing will be transferred to the blade and sawing ability/quality can be compromised.
Thanks Majicman, that's my job for tonight, gussetting. A weekend of bday parties kept me out of workshop.
Here are the blades I ordered.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~2.jpeg)
Well, had some alone time tonight. Made the uprights to hold bearing guides and band guard. Bolted in engine on mount and realized it was going to hit top crosser bar. Extended them by 10". And started concentrating on stiffening whole rig. Plated where I could, triangle gussets at other points. Makes a big difference already. Raised and lowered engine, no ratcheting, woot woot! Thanks for the input guys.
Now you're firing on all cylinders! Keep it up and you'll be making sawdust and cussing with the best of them. Be sure to share when you hit your first clamp or backstop. This will make you a "pro sawyer". I was on my second log, so I was a pro rather quickly. ;) :D Everybody does it at least once, eventually!
If that's the case, I'm going to try and remain an amateur for sure. I'm trying to learn from all the new terms I read like "log dog polishing" and "bandsaw blade necklace" to name a few!
I've thought of the log dog problem and was wondering why no systems clamp from ends of log? Not possible or has anyone tried? Or is there that much side force from blade if it's pushed to hard? I've seen some smaller mills on YouTube that just use gravity of the log with some small wedges on the sides and they seem to do fine.
You will probably pick up a few new ones when it actually happens. :P
There's more twisting action to the log than you think, especially when milling the top of a new log and it's just kinda balanced there. I've been lazy and not clamped/dogged logs enough and almost had disastrous results from the log turning while milling. That'll wreck a blade and pull the whole mill head out of alignment if it ever caught.
As for end clamping - This is my mindset: I tend to look at what most of the mills are using. There has to be something to it and I don't think that I'm smart enough to think better than all those others who are in business manufacturing mills. There's a reason these things are done a certain way. Side clamping is really the only way to get any kind of bite to keep the log from rolling around and at the same time keeping the clamp low enough to be able to mill close to the bed/bunks/frame. That being said, I've never seen or heard of an end clamping mill and perhaps it would work. Maybe some others could chip in with their opinions. :)
Now, everyone knows how much of an attention span I have, lol.
And just because everyone else uses this method doesn't mean there's not a better mousetrap?
Quick design shown from above log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/Untitled_127.jpg)
And this way, if someone else patents then end system, we have a record of it, lol.
Would probably work for cutting through making all live edge slabs and if your logs are similar in length.
I'm thinking it would be cumbersome when cutting various lengths logs or trying to put a flat face 90° to the bed when squaring a log.
The log-end clamps - Give it a shot! You never know, it might work great and we'd all learn something new. I'd be interested to know how you would go about adjusting for different length logs. Are you thinking along the lines of pipe clamps to slide back and forth the length of the mill?
I have a couple ideas I'll work on. Will try to stick to mill for now!
Ran into my first glitch tonight. When I mounted my engine I realized the muffler was going to contact the top bracket on carriage essentially giving me a 12" cut! Back to the drawing board. Whoever said measure twice and cut once, never worked with my meccano stuff! In a fit of ingenuity, I added an 12" extension and looking at things, moved the uprights. I ended up sandwiching the posts and ending up with two braces as opposed to one at the top.
Then I took her all apart for final weld before I realized I didn't take a pic for the visual guys. Gonna hopefully get her back together with proper fasteners before weekend and I'll post some photos.
Mufflers can be moved... I had to change my air cleaner.
All welded up and reassembled! I fabbed some bracketry to hold blade guard and lower will hold guide rollers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~3.jpeg)
Quick trip to machine shop and voilà! Two guides.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~5.jpeg)
I then realized that I fixed my muffler clearance issue and created a futur guard collision issue with my new uprights. Will have to cut the lower upright off and raise 6" or so. That's the problems you get with engineering on the fly, lol.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~4.jpeg)
There are some big commercial vertical bandmills that end dog the logs, it lifts the log right up, and lets them spin it between cuts.
You mentioned getting blades custom made, are they from R&D bandsaws (tufftooth.com)? Was wondering what their millbands were like, I had good luck with their woodworking bandsaw blades.
Keep up the good work.
Quote from: Picky2016 on May 03, 2016, 12:32:58 PM
Now, everyone knows how much of an attention span I have, lol.
And just because everyone else uses this method doesn't mean there's not a better mousetrap?
Quick design shown from above log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/Untitled_127.jpg)
And this way, if someone else patents then end system, we have a record of it, lol.
For that to work the clamps would have to be raise-able and be able to adjust for different length logs. I do a lot of live edge siding from small logs I pound the hook of a comealong jack into each end of the log with the cable going under the mill then tighten up the come along. It works but I wouldn't want to use that method if I was rolling the log a lot.
Well, I am probably the most optimistic person one would meet. For all you sceptics reading along, I'm with you guys. I got band on today and tried to get her to ride up on crown. It keep sliding down to last tread. It's like it's using the tread pattern as guide. So I gave her a couple spins and she stayed on. No promises of it staying at 3000 fpm but time will tell.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~7.jpeg)
I also added the roller guides, I will weld the three pieces together tomorrow for stability.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~6.jpeg)
I've read that some tire users have shaved the faces flat. Will find out I'm sure.
I did notice a downfall of my meccano tubing, everywhere it's welded, it's fine but where it's bolted, it does have a squish factor. I'm going to spend today cutting sleeves and installing them inside the tubes. Only happens at bearings and adjusters, where it's the most critical! To change blade, I just let air out of tires, slide new one on with a little cursing and air them back up to 30 psi and it's good to go.
That should stay on. I change blades on my Thomas and I have to adjust it too. I watch the blade and I can tell if I am adjusting it right. I give it a few quick spins and if it stays on track,I go with it.
I believe that if you could toe the tires outward a bit in the throat the blade would track closer to the tire's center, but it may not matter anyway.
Now to put this on the right thread... :-X
As MM said, you need to be able to adjust the toe-in / -out on each tire to get it to track well. You need it to track where you want BEFORE you put your blade guides in place. The blade guides are ONLY for preventing the blade from going back as you are cutting (and providing about ¼"-½" of down pressure). Even then, the blade should not be pressing much on the backstop. The washer you have on there looks like a normal zinc washer. It will wear out pretty fast. Speaking from stubborn experience, get some Cook's guides and save yourself a lot of headache!
Well John, I thought of this and this is what I came up with. The center of the zinc washer is bigger than bearing I'd so it spins with bearings, But I will redo them. And yes, the blade barely touches them. I'm sure I could run without the guides.
Well, a little drawing for the budget challenged mill builders. After looking at several guide designs, I came up with a 10$ guide. No yelling for use of metric system please. You get three bearings as listed and a 20mm bolt. Bolt them all together and voila, a budget guide! I'll post pic tomorrow. . If the two bearings aren't as wide as your liking you can just add a washer or two.
The blade sits on the two smaller and backs on larger one.
**20mm bolt not 9/16" as shown***
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/Untitled_127_2_2_2_2_28229.jpg)
And yes, the tires are toed out about 1/16" per side. I have adjusters on pillow blocks. This is another spot I had to install some sleeves. Early photo.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~8.jpeg)
Lots of guys run guides like that. Beauty of it is, parts are cheap and easy to replace. Some are push down guides like this, others are sandwich guides top and bottom and one in the back edgewise for back control. All using the same bearings. Yeah, they wear out but a good snort of gear oil or needle injected grease in those bearings now and then will make a big difference in how long they last. A lot of guys just run them as they're bought and new bearings like that aren't usually greased or oiled very good off the shelf.
And there we have guide 2.0
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~9.jpeg)
And just so you guys don't think your knowledge doesn't go very far, some midnight reading last night has convinced me to try and play with tire pressure and tension adjusting in an attempt to get band riding up on crown. ;)
Looking good on the guides. Do as Ox says - grease them up good. I wasted 3 sets of bearings the minute I ran water (coolant) on the blade. I switched to Cook's and no issues so far. On the tire pressure - I did mess around with mine a bit. I have a manual tension screw. If the tire pressure was too high (60 psi rating on the tires - doughnut spares), the blade would not stay on the crown, seemed counter intuitive. So I run a bit lower (50ish) and tighten the blade until it stops fluttering.
My method (YMMV) is put the band on and tighten a little bit. Adjust the tracking until it is right where I want it. Adjust the blade guides (put into position). Tighten blade until flutter stops, running at full throttle. I usually don't touch the tracking any more now.
Will do John, and for the record, it was your mill story I read last night!
Hope it helped more than confused! :D
As far as toe in, I haven't checked in a while but I'm betting that I have between ¼' to ¾" on each side. If I remember, I'll measure when I'm back up there on Wednesday.
Quote from: Picky2016 on May 07, 2016, 07:05:29 PM
Well, I am probably the most optimistic person one would meet. For all you sceptics reading along, I'm with you guys. I got band on today and tried to get her to ride up on crown. It keep sliding down to last tread. It's like it's using the tread pattern as guide. So I gave her a couple spins and she stayed on. No promises of it staying at 3000 fpm but time will tell.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~7.jpeg)
I also added the roller guides, I will weld the three pieces together tomorrow for stability.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~6.jpeg)
I've read that some tire users have shaved the faces flat. Will find out I'm sure.
That blade MAY stay on but it won't cut straight it will probably try to rise out of the cut. You need to get it riding farther back. Ideally you would get it with the gullets riding right about where the back of the blade is.
Well, after 3 hours of trying everything, no avail. I loosened all tension on wheels, straightened everything out with the level and put band on. As soon as it gets any tension, it rolls off back onto it's front groove. I toed the wheels out like a quarter inch to make it stay, but after a few spins, it rolls off back. So too much toe. I take some out and it rolls forward. Tried air in, air out, she doesn't like the crown. I had to take out so much air to get it to stay there, the tire was cupping in center and I'm worried it will take the set out the blade. Then it took me two minutes to get her back on front groove and she stays there with a pretty good amount of tension and air in tires. I am destined to test at front of tires like I had in beginning.
Joe, won't the guide tension hold her straight as not to rise out of cut?
I noticed that your tires have a lot of crown, mine are barely crowned at all. Tracking is pretty sensitive; mine adjusts by turning a 1/2-13 bolt (it pivots a plate that the bearings are mounted on). I adjust it while blade is tight and turning slowly; 1/4 turn of the bolt makes a huge difference. Getting the blade tension set the same each time is important if there is any flex in the frame, otherwise the alignment will have to adjusted with every blade change.
You may be able to get it cutting straight while tracking on front of tires but I think it will take more than just the guides. Might have to tilt the wheels so that the blade is level.
Quote from: Picky2016 on May 10, 2016, 08:15:57 AM
Well, after 3 hours of trying everything, no avail. I loosened all tension on wheels, straightened everything out with the level and put band on. As soon as it gets any tension, it rolls off back onto it's front groove. I toed the wheels out like a quarter inch to make it stay, but after a few spins, it rolls off back. So too much toe. I take some out and it rolls forward. Tried air in, air out, she doesn't like the crown. I had to take out so much air to get it to stay there, the tire was cupping in center and I'm worried it will take the set out the blade. Then it took me two minutes to get her back on front groove and she stays there with a pretty good amount of tension and air in tires. I am destined to test at front of tires like I had in beginning.
Joe, won't the guide tension hold her straight as not to rise out of cut?
With it riding the way you have in the photo, what I think will happen is, the back of the blade will have more tension than the front so the front will be easier to deflect and the guides won't be able to help with that.
Can you move the tires closer together? You may have too much tension.
If the tires are bulging around the blade it will take the set out of a brand new blade in the first couple feet of the first cut (I've done it).
When I first build my mill the blade ran on the wheels nearly perfectly. Then I made a tiny adjustment and it took me several days to get it to say on again. It was just dumb luck that it worked the first time. If I had problems right from the beginning and I couldn't get it adjusted right I would have thought there was no way to make it work and probably would have junked it thinking it couldn't possibly work. But once it is adjusted right it runs and tracks perfectly.
Is your blade greasy or oily? On my mill if I have more than a couple drops of diesel on the blade or tires the blade will pop forward like yours is in the photo. Then I have to rub sawdust all around the blade and both wheels to absorb the diesel so I can get the blade to stay on.
Another thought (it isn't right but it will get you going) Put the blade guides on then adjust the angle of the wheels until the blade wants to pop off the back side but the blade guides hold it prevent it. That will wear out your blade guides and the put a burr on the back of your blade sooner than normal. From there you can slowly adjust your toe out to ride just right.
Also get all the oil/ grease off the blade and wheels. ALL of it. Oil on the blade and wheels can cause large problems getting a blade to ride right on a mill that is set up right so it could make impossible to get one that isn't adjusted yet to track at all.
Also how are you adjusting your toe in/out? Is it just through loosing up the bolts that hold the bearing then slide the bearing then tighten it back up? If so that would make it very difficult to adjust in small amounts and impossible to adjust with a blade on.
What would be better is to have a nut welded on to the frame on each side of the bearing that you could thread a bolt into to push the bearing side to side, that way you can do it in tiny amounts. A few hundredths of an inch on the back bearing can make a very large difference on the tracking.
Also are you only adjusting the idle side wheel or the power side as well? They both need to be adjusted.
One last comment because it is important, get ALL the oil off the blade and wheels, when you think you have it all off do it again, and again. (yes it is that important) Once you get it tracking properly then it doesn't matter quite as much.
I just looked at your photo of your toe in/out adjusters I see you have a way to push them out which is what you need on the front bearing but the back bearing you need a way to push or pull in.
Another thing. Are your wheels running true? They don't have to be perfect but they can't be way off either. Check them for spinning true front to back and side to side.
Is your frame flexing? Put a straight edge tight on one wheel and measure how far the end of the straight edge is out from the other wheel, then put a blade on and measure again. If the second measurement is more than say 1/4 smaller than the first your frame is probably flexing too much or the bearings/shaft have excessive play.
Are the wheels on toed in/out on the same plane up and down?
Is the air pressure nearly the same in both tires? One with high pressure and one with low pressure can be a problem.
Where are you doing your testing at? If your wheels are in the bright sun they can heat up and the pressure can go way up causing problems. The gaurds also shade them from the sun too.
Wheels straight both planes and spin smooth. Drive is perfect and driven might have a little high spot. Carriage still in my workshop so sun not factor. You don't see in photo but I did add a block on outside to push the rear bearing inwards so toe is not changing. I'm going to try again tonight. There is minimal flex of carriage and/or shafts when band is installed, 1/8" max.
It sounds like most of your bases are covered. Now it's just fiddle work to get it just right. Sometimes these things take some serious time. Frustration factor is, well, frustrating. It WILL come together and be perfect eventually. You'll have a eureka moment and it will all be worth it when you have a smooth mill making smooth lumber. Joe has given you good info and suggestions.
And fiddle work it was.
Today was a big learning curve and learning from others mistakes (sorry to pass buck, first time down sawmill road guys). First, I cracked a coolie and sat and looked and sat and looked, another coolie, you get it. I cleaned oil off tires and blade, the junk that comes on new blades. Aired up both tires to 50psi. I slackened off both pillow bearing sides, straightened to level tire to tire. I rolled blade on and it was loose, snug but slid on tires if I forced it. So I tightened 5 turns on front and back on one side, still loose. 5 more turns, snug. Then I toed out driven tire 5 turns and drive tire 5 turns. Blade back on and it's actually trying to climb to centre! Tightened 5 more both sides and tried blade again. It was actually worse. As I looked at my setup, I realized as I toed it out from front pillow, it was actually tightening the blade at same time. So I slackened back to straight and loosened the rear pillow bearings. It still toed them out at the front but not as drastic as using the front. Band back on and she actually rode off the rear this time. Took some toe out and she's riding centred on wheel. It was actually starting to come down to front on drive tire so put a little more back in and ha!
Sorry for lengthy post, but I'm fairly happy right now. I even installed guide rollers with 1/4" down pressure. I spun by hand for another coolie, and every one in a while, the rear bearing just gets touched! Tomorrow I'm gonna tighten everything up and bring her out to the light of day. Going to set her up then mount engine and build rails. Getting there. Thanks again peeps!
Axle design viewing from above.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/Untitled_136.jpg)
I'm glad you got it. Make sure you are standing behind it the first time you put power to the blade in case it comes off. I had mine come off once before I had guards and once it came off the front it acted like a large wheel and rolled at a pretty good speed a hundred feet or so to the right.
Joe - I never saw a blade try to run away like that before - kinda funny if it weren't for the pucker factor.
Picky - see there? A little messing around and all is well. This is usually true for most things when you really think about it! Glad to hear you're progressing.
Don't take much to make it off. Only adjust it a little at a time.
Yes I'm glad. Learned about patience in the past couple decades, sure paid off. Don't you worry Joe, when she's outside, I'll mount motor 1 and 2, install a guard! :D
Quote from: Ox on May 10, 2016, 08:54:12 PM
Joe - I never saw a blade try to run away like that before - kinda funny if it weren't for the pucker factor.
It surprised the heck out of me it rolled nearly to the road. Hit a large log, bounced into the air maybe ten feet and came crashing down. I wouldn't have wanted to get tangled in it when it was moving.
I use to take a large nut or gear and slid it on a screwdriver. Take an air hose and shoot the
air on the nut to get it spinning. Jerk the screwdriver off the nut and watch it go.
I did this with a large gear and it went through a block wall.
Had a buddy come over and help me haul her out of workshop. Heavy little sucker. She sees the light of day. Gonna load on atv trailer tomorrow and bring her down to her resting area where she'll be put to work, lol. Pics tomorrow!
Sure would like to see that!
Maybe a Picture or twenty??? Hey
That was my best Canadian,
tnaz
Quote from: Kbeitz on May 11, 2016, 07:51:17 PM
I use to take a large nut or gear and slid it on a screwdriver. Take an air hose and shoot the
air on the nut to get it spinning. Jerk the screwdriver off the nut and watch it go.
I did this with a large gear and it went through a block wall.
Well, now I am going to have to try that.
:-X ;D
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on May 11, 2016, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on May 11, 2016, 07:51:17 PM
I use to take a large nut or gear and slid it on a screwdriver. Take an air hose and shoot the
air on the nut to get it spinning. Jerk the screwdriver off the nut and watch it go.
I did this with a large gear and it went through a block wall.
Well, now I am going to have to try that.
Keep your hand back on the handle.
Spinning nuts can hurt. Also watch when the nut
first hits the dirt that it does not jump up at you
or bounce off a wall and come back at you.
There is some real danger here. A big nut
or gear could really hurt someone.
Well, this is her in all her glory. Will be mounting engine tonight if rain holds out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/Mill.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1463073428)
Like a giant Erector set!
On the mounting of your engine, remember, the drive wheel needs to PULL the blade through the cut, not try to push it.
By golly, now that looks pretty good! Coming right along.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on May 12, 2016, 04:25:52 PM
Like a giant Erector set!
On the mounting of your engine, remember, the drive wheel needs to PULL the blade through the cut, not try to push it.
Good old Erector sets... I have over 70 sets as of now....
Quote from: Kbeitz on May 12, 2016, 07:04:51 PM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on May 12, 2016, 04:25:52 PM
Like a giant Erector set!
On the mounting of your engine, remember, the drive wheel needs to PULL the blade through the cut, not try to push it.
Good old Erector sets... I have over 70 sets as of now....
Somehow, that does not surprise me... :D
When I get a chance, I gotta come down and visit Kbeitz, I gotta see this collection, lol. Mounted engine tonight and then she started pouring. Postponed till tomorrow. Thanks for the props guys.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/Mill2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1463097082)
Stacks of them....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Erector_sets.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463098965)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC01044.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463099165)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC01045~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463099435)
My....god..... :o
Well boys, today's the day. Busted me rump all day yesterday getting her all done. Made a guard, somewhat, and built a rail. Assembled her all and set her up. I just need to install an upright brace and lube system and away we go! I had it running and idling for about 10 mins in the morning and nothing spun or fell off. No rain or snow today so we're on.
Hope you have nothing but smiles...
Smiles n sawdust yes, :)
It's a unique feeling that many people can't understand when you make the first sawdust with a mill that you created with your own hands.
I'm pretty sure the people that buy a new mill have the same type of feeling the first time because they worked for the money and saved for it, so I imagine it's the same satisfaction and proud feeling in the end. :)
Well wholly junk, there's a new sawyer in town!
Set her all up with temp lube tank. Jumped on 6x6 early this morn and went to pick up an old hydro pole up the road. They put in a new line and the old ones were fell free for the taking. Jigged log up and fired her up. As soon as I turned the lube on, she threw the band. A horrifying noise to say the least. So, cleaned off blade, less three teeth, and the tires with brake clean, put back on and tried her out without lube. She's cutting! I was ecstatic, scared and Leary all at the same time. I almost threw up. Went through log like hot knife through butter. At exit, I shut her off and felt blade, and bearings, not even hot.
I reset log and cut again, and again and again and then milled off 6 boards. I just adjust blade down to next set of holes. Consistent 7/8 planks! No climbing or diving blade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~11.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1463347941)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~10.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1463347903)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~12.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1463347964)
Neighbor came over to see what the noise was all about. I gave her a demo. She absolutely loved it and bought 12 planks for her new green house. First sale! My wife already offered to set up a tent for me so I can cut all day long!
We went for ride this afternoon and picked up another 3 poles and I have my eye on 5 more!
I want to thank everyone here for tips along the way! Much appreciated.
That is Great, and good deal on the poles.
Good Luck Forward
When I built my mill I put on a lube tank. To this day not a drop of lube
has been in the tank. If I dont see where I will need it i never will use it.
Quote from: Picky2016 on May 15, 2016, 05:39:21 PM
Well wholly junk, there's a new sawyer in town!
8)
Awesome! Congratulations!
There is some tweaking left to do yet. I need to plunge deeper grooves in rail wheels. They are about 1/4" deep now so just riding on top of rail and it racks side to side a bit. So before it falls off, I'll fix it to a 1/2" deep.
Also, raising the carriage goes smoothly, but when lowering, it lowers one side a bit till it binds, then the other side lowers till it binds and so on. So I just lower it further than I need and reraise carriage. Both of these problems I can attribute to flex in the two uprights. When version 2.0 comes along, it will be all built out of 2" thick walled tubing.
I lucked out one way, I use two 3/8" pins for carriage holders. After squaring three sides, I cut off a slab. Then lower 1" to next hole and insert pin and away we go! Consistent 7/8" boards.
Quote from: Picky2016 on May 15, 2016, 08:17:46 PM
I lucked out one way, I use two 3/8" pins for carriage holders. After squaring three sides, I cut off a slab. Then lower 1" to next hole and insert pin and away we go! Consistent 7/8" boards.
Well that is pretty neat. If you drop two holes, do you get 1-7/8" boards. That would make some pretty good 2x material - stronger than store-bought. Is that pin going through a hole on both the head and the posts? If so, you might want to add a hole between two on the head. Then you would have another setting to split the difference as you try to make different thicknesses.
Holes are 1" apart less kerf. Yep, 1 7/8".
It actually goes through upright post only and the top of the carriage slide butts up against it. If I put bolt all the way in and set carriage against head, it gives me 1/2". I'll post pic tomorrow. I'm going to bed, I'm bushed!
Quote from: Picky2016 on May 15, 2016, 05:39:21 PM
As soon as I turned the lube on, she threw the band. A horrifying noise to say the least. So, cleaned off blade, less three teeth, and the tires with brake clean, put back on and tried her out without lube.
I love that the lube caused your blade to come off. I have talked to several people with tire mills both in person and on here and none of them seem to have problems with an oily blade wanting to come off the wheels.
On my mill I have to start the cut, then give it a couple drops of diesel (what I use for blade lube) and hope most of the diesel is off the blade by the time I get to the end of the cut. Otherwise the blade pops off and I have to wipe it clean and rub sawdust on the tires to get the blade to stay on once I put it back on. I've also found that my mill is more forgiving of excessive lube on the blade if I have a bit of pitch/sawdust built up on the wheels where the blade rides.
Now that you got it running it is just a matter of learning and adjustments.
One other thing. If you don't already have one buy an accurate tire pressure gauge. If my mill starts having problems one of the first thing I check is the tire pressure is about where I want it and that both tires are within a couple pounds of each other. You may want to put a front guard on your mill. For safety but also to shade the tires. When the sun shines on them they heat up and the pressure in them can go way up which can cause problems. When I first built my mill I had to adjust the pressure in my tires several times a day. I thought it was caused by heat from friction with the band but it turned out to be the sun shining on the wheels. Once I got the guard completed on it now I only have to check the pressure when I am having issues which may be several weeks.
Picky--doesn't get any funner than this, does it? Got caught up in your enthusiasm. Congratulations on your maiden sawdust run.... 8) 8). And going for a ride now will never be the same--scrounging for sawlogs wherever you can find them... :D :D. All the best, Rob.
Fun it is. I had another neighbor ask if he could be my sawyer and I told him maybe when I get bored of it. Don't see that happening. I ran the whole day, no lube. There was very little pitch sticking on blade. At end of the day I took off the band and just wiped it down with brake clean.
Yes, front guards are next. I was thinking of using 3/4" plywood that way if blade jumps off, again, it'll have some protection from steel rails. Some teeth didn't fair well with first blade incident.
I'll keep an eye on tire pressure on hotter days too.
Thanks
Man as a old bodyman to I can tell you this sawmill stuff is fun. I started building a mill but work got in the way so I found a used norwood on craigslist .But I have been thinking about using a small front wheel drive car engine and driveline in a bigger mill the rear axle hubs unbolt and maybe use the power steering pump for the hydraulics on the head feeds ? just a thought . Have fun be safe !
I wanted to use Alum diamond plate for my guards, but I use 3/4" plywood instead.
It does protect the blades but it make my mill look homemade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC03174.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463440240)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Plywood_finished~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463440406)
I like Homemade. You did a Great job too!!!
Gonna hybrid mine Kbeitz, 1/2" plywood covered in diamond plate. Nice job though!
Quote from: Picky2016 on May 16, 2016, 07:37:31 PM
Gonna hybrid mine Kbeitz, 1/2" plywood covered in diamond plate. Nice job though!
Thats a great idea...
Finished greenhouse order 30 bd feet last night, starting on fence board order of 120 bd feet tonight. Still no unexpected incidents to speak of (fingers crossed). Almost missed a staple in one pole. Going to go shopping for metal detector this weekend, lol.
Put the timer on tonight, after I built my cover guard, and figured out just under 100 board feet per hour. I set log up and started, got 8 1"x8" boards in 30 minutes. That's 48 bf per half. I had a little wane half way through, adjusted tire pressure and it was all good after that. Have to plan another pole picking trip, I'm out! Two days, two poles. I get 8" lumber from the butt ends then 6" stuff from balance.
And Kbeitz, just plywood for guard, no checker plate yet, lol.
I know there's many factors, but what should I expect on blade life? I cut about 30 8' boards, 8" wide. All 1" planks, with slabbing, I figure about 500 linear feet of average 12" poles. Total cutting time less than 8 hours. Good or bad or?
Thanks in advance.
Yep, so many factors come into play with blade life it ain't even funny. Your blade life is not unusual. You can consider it normal. Blade life will change every day it seems. Sometimes one blade will last so long you wonder if you were crazy before when you had to change blades 3 times in a day! Just sawing through the bark will have a big effect on how long your blade lasts.
Congratulations on your build!
Didn't see anybody mention it, so... watch out for the dust from cutting those utility poles. Protect your lungs and eyes. The fun lasts longer when you can breathe and see.
Well, gonna try my hand at some timber framing. Pouring rain this morning so no bugs! Me and wifey went on a tiny adventure and scored 10 7' lengths of cedar poles. The rain is supposed to subside this aft, so I'm off to mill me 10 6x6 timbers to build one majestic arbor!
Price of a gallon of gas...4$
Price of wear and tear on a blade...20$
Price of 4 reclaimed hydro poles...0$
8 hours labor in the pouring rain that would have been wasted sitting on the couch googling pictures of a timber arbor...0$
The feeling of accomplishment having built one beam for new arbor...
Priceless!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~15.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1464548828)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~13.jpeg?easy-rotate_cache=1464548738)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~14.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1464548821)
That's some nice looking lumber!
Well, after specializing in 7' fence boards for the past bit, found the need for some longer lumber. Built a 10' extension for mill last night. Put her together this weekend and gonna try hand at milling some 16' 6x6 beams for buddies trapper cabin.
And I finished arbor, posted pics in Timberframing section.
After a successful arbor build, decided to get on my buddies cabin build. Threw on a 600 pounds alder and then a 500 pound pine and came up with some lumber! 22" across. Two big 6" cants and then 2x6s.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~23.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1468142661)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~22.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1468142793)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~24.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1468098796)
If the pics are upside down, I apologize, iPad.
Apology accepted, but you need to turn the first two.
Thanks magic, all fixed. And I know the wood looks pretty and all, but they didn't come to be without problems. The first log was so big, that my guide roller pressed up against it. It held the bearing from spinning and the blade cut into it and jumped off mid cut. Yanked out blade OK and flipped bearing, good to go.
Well, gentlemen, once again thanks for all input and help. Mill working great after ironing a few bugs out here and there. Cut all day today, jackpine, 5 logs, 5 pcs 6x6 and about 20 2x6s and 2 nice 2" live edge slabs I'll use for something down the line. After walking with carriage, I figure about 200 times or a mile roughly, time to automate this bugger! I'm planning on cable driving the carriage, winch and acme rods for height adjust, and even have an idea on self centering, winch powered log dogs. I use a long handled log roller and it works great. No need to go too far here and I still need some kind of exercise! Gonna go picking through my "spare junk to keep in case of emergency" shed and see what I have on hand and get to work. 8)
Well, well, well. Dug out an old sliding gate controller box. Motor was pooched so modded an old reversible compressor motor in housing. Stripped all extra flush mount bearings to use for motor up down. Wired in DPDT switch for fwd reverse and installed rheostat for speed control. I also found two linear motors from an old adjustable bed I was keeping just for ? I'll use these for my automated log holders.
I plan to use rh an lh threaded rods joined in center, and attach these to sliding plates that will house log dogs. When motor is engaged, they will both slide to center ultimately clamping down log. I will make them with a pocket so I can change out different lengths of log holders, 12", 6", and 1/2" to cut down to 1" of bed.
Get some pics later for y'all.
So how are you going to square up your cut if you don't have you log
up against the log stops ?
Not sure what you mean. Maybe my ideas a little unclear.
Sorta like along these lines but with power instead of handles.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~25.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1468800353)
You've all seen these saw horses. As you crank, the boards move closer or further apart. Put uprights and voila, self centering powered dogs. Sorry Kbeitz if you thought about the end log holders I spoke about earlier on.
No, what Kbeitz is referring to is squaring up your logs. You make the first cut and at some point, rotate it 90° and put it up against your log stops so your next cut will produce a nice 90° corner. Continue on and make your cant that is square (or rectangular). IF you make your "log holders" so that one side is perfectly 90° to the bed and does NOT have a "tooth" to grab the cant (and make it out of square), you should be good. If you have a little tooth at the top to grab the log, just make it so you can flip it around out of the way when you are squaring up the cant. Hope that makes sense.
Clear as mud! Yes I understand now. Little sketch of what log dogs will look like. They are removable and reversible for log or square edge.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~7.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1468810667)
Been looking at power feed carriages with motor and chain. Neat system The problem with mine is, like i said before, the uprights flex a little and I'm afraid that if I only pull one side, it will ratchet, then bind , then fall. What I plan to do is run a shaft across rear of mill with garage door pulleys, and run a length of cable down either side of mill with pulleys on ends to be able to pull both uprights at same time.
All right, all right, I get it. No pics, no replies, lol.
Got gate controller down to mill and wired her all up. First of all, I'm not a fan of AC voltage, at all. But I was reading on the interweb last night and saved a bunch o diagrams and got to it today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~27.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1468884369)
The box with its new octopus, I'll clean her up when done. The arm at bottom pulley is override clutch so I can disconnect anytime.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~28.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1468884465)
I'm going for a line shaft two way winch system.
The top shaft comes out of gearbox. It reduced down to? I fired her up and get about 2 revs per second out of her. I was thinking of putting a pipe wrench on it to check torque but then I remember the pickup truck at work getting squished because the limit switches were out of wack.
I would like the bed to travel roughly an inch a second. If I use my 5 inch cable drum guides I have, I get about 7 inches a second, way too fast (would be nice though). Going to have to go to smaller pulleys. And all those wahoos on you tube showing you how to use a dimmer switch as motor regulator, aren't using induction motors. Works sorta but then kicks out capacitor at about halfway.
Going to pick up shafting tomorrow. Till then!
Sounds like you need a VFD.
That's what it's called yes. I don't see any for single phase motors though. Might be shopping for a three phase and frequency drive. I'll get her going first and cross that bridge later.
An Internet search revealed that things of this nature do exist.
http://www.anaconsystems.com/text/singleov.html
Might have to go back to basics. Right now I have a 12vdc power supply with no 12V motors strong enough. And I found a 24V motor in shed with plenty of torque and no 24V transformer lol. Might just use it and two batteries or find 12v motor to fit. I'll mull it over today. The DC units are easy peasy to regulate speed and torque.
Darn, forgot camera. Shaft, coupler and bearing installed. Gotta run cables and give her a whirl.
Well, it works, for about 4' then cable piles up in bearing. Now I know why the guys use chain! Will pick some up this week and work on 2.0
2.0 sounds like a winner.
Going to strip a snowblower in morning for some much needed sprockets and bearings.
Recycle is a good thing.
Yes it is, and free. Ordered chain this morning but the drive idea was killing me. I read somewhere that someone used a riding mower transaxle. So, grabbed blower, took off 10hp knocking Tecumseh and replaced with 1hp electric. Just going for testing. Removed auger and clamped to end of mill. Removed wheels and extended axles and installed two overhead door cable spools to get rid of my cable binding. Bolted the entire leftover blower to the end of my mill rail. Left clutch and shifter all intact. Going to use as is and use dash for future control panel. Reversed electric motor so reverse is forward because R1 is geared lower than first gear. Figured out which way to spool everything and power up! She's not pretty by any means but the concept is there. Going to instal two pillow bearings in between spools and blower because the axles are binding, I expected that. But on paper, 2 forward speeds, 6 reverse. I have a 3" pulley on electric motor and she's a little fast still. Going to fix that. I ordered a 1 1/2" pulley, be in on Wednesday. Should fix everything up by halving speed. Right now I get about 1" per second in R1. I tried cutting a log manually and that's about right with a new blade. Will still get that in R2 so I'm good. I just want a little wiggle room. I showed concept working to my wife, got a chuckle or two but the thumbs up! I think she just wants it to work so I don't spends every waking moment with my mill lol.
I think she just wants it to work so I don't spends every waking moment with my mill lol. :D :D :D
So you control the head from the front of the mill with the lawnmower gear box? If so do you also have a way to raise and lower the head from that position?
On my mill when I come to the end of the cut it is very common for the blade to drop 1/16-1/8 inch when the blade gets past the end of the cut. If I were to try backing it up without raising the head the back of the blade would bump the end of the log and the blade would come off.
Easy John, your going to ruin my next surprise! Yes. I purchased a 12v 3000lb winch for that. I have the same problems. 99% of the time it's fine and I can push carriage back. Usually, when someone stops by and I'm giving a demo, the blade will get stuck! I'm using a snowblower not lawn mower, that's what I had on hand, lol. Planning on power carriage, then power raise/lower, then power log dogs. Busy for this week of holidays! Pics this afternoon.
Well, we have a working unit, one power carriage done. Gonna switch out the cables for aircraft cable tomorrow. I notice a bit of stretch in the plastic coated stuff.
Like I said, she might not be pretty, but she works flawlessly. Going to switch out cables tomorrow and give her a whirl.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~30.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1469617314)
Cables running length with pulley at far end.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/image~29.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1469617127)
I'll post vid tomorrow for all you skeptics, lol.
Your pictures are up-side down so they still don't count? :D
Thanks for the repair.
I'm no skeptic but am very interested in seeing a video on this. I've often thought of doing the same thing with a hydro drive lawn tractor that had a bad engine or something.
These little hydro trannys are great for that. They also make
a good unit for powering winches.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Eaton_Model_6_and_7.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1469629864)
Kbeitz - knowing you, those are sourced through Ebay? I know surplus center has some for zero turn mowers at a reasonable price. Reasonable being proportionate to others, still several hundred bucks.
Well, it works...sorta. I put heavier 5/16" cable on her. With not enough tension, the wheels slip in cable. With too much tension, there's too much drag and she won't spin the wheels. Gonna have to wait for chain I guess.
Quote from: Picky2016 on July 27, 2016, 05:31:58 PM
Well, it works...sorta. I put heavier 5/16" cable on her. With not enough tension, the wheels slip in cable. With too much tension, there's too much drag and she won't spin the wheels. Gonna have to wait for chain I guess.
I have no problems. I have a turnbuckle on one end and a heavy spring at the other.
One wrap with the cable around the drive pulley, But... My drive pulley is 10" dia.
Quote from: Ox on July 27, 2016, 04:10:18 PM
Kbeitz - knowing you, those are sourced through Ebay? I know surplus center has some for zero turn mowers at a reasonable price. Reasonable being proportionate to others, still several hundred bucks.
Ebay has them but I find plenty at the junkyard.
I just got this one...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC03311.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1469662063)
I hate you, Kbeitz. :D I wondered where all the junkyard treasures are...they're down there in Pennsatucky!
Come on down.... We will go junkyard diving....
Another very good varable speed gear box is one made by Zero Max.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Zero_max.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1469700859)
Quote from: Kbeitz on July 28, 2016, 12:50:20 AM
Come on down.... We will go junkyard diving....
I might just have to take you up on that offer. Maybe offer you a finder's fee for picking some things for me. We just don't have those types of treasures up here anymore. The last treasure I remember finding was two years ago and it was simply some lengths of plain old angle iron.
You're smarter than me. Which variable speed box would last longer - the CVT mechanical or the hydrostatic? I've got a hydrostatic Peerless from the 70s out of a Ford LGT140 garden tractor running my Power King now. It still works fantastic. However, quality has suffered the newer things get.
Both are good... I never did a test to see witch is better.
I dont think you would find any Zero-maxs in the junkyard and new ones arnt cheap.
E-bay has them but if you go that way make sure the unit has reverse.
Not all Zero-maxs has reverse. Also turning them backwards doesnt work.
I think for sawmills it's easyer to go the wheelchair gerabox way. Not so many belts, chains and whatever.
Quote from: Picky2016 on July 27, 2016, 05:31:58 PM
Well, it works...sorta. I put heavier 5/16" cable on her. With not enough tension, the wheels slip in cable. With too much tension, there's too much drag and she won't spin the wheels. Gonna have to wait for chain I guess.
What about springs or a weight hanging on the cable to keep the tension?
Springs sound like good idea. Just going to wait for chain. Cut all day yesterday with a buddy lending a hand. Ended up with about another 30 2x6 and a sale for a mill! He will reap the benefits of my mistakes. Will be mainly identical except for thick walled 2" tubing instead of my mechano metal.
Got a hold of a big load of cedar logs for decking for next years project. Question, I'm getting blades snapping. First time ever the other day. I'm way up in the sticks, so after shipping, new blades are same price as sharpened blades factoring in two ways for sharpened, one way for new. So I cut to failure. Usually, when I turn blue from pushing mill I change blade or she jumps guides and falls of wheels. I get to about 100-150 board feet of cedar, the clicking starts and then she snaps and throws blade out the dust chute. I'm using trailer tires, bearing guides and no lube. Tracking ok, guides still holding up nice, and i tried lube with no luck. I cut jackpine, poplar, birch, tamarack and now cedar. First sign of probs. not big, just wondering for all you cedar pros out there. White cedar, 8' lengths, been seasoned for two three years in a pile.
The mills with rubber tires claim they don't need lube
But the cedar being 3 years cut don't help
Try misting the band with a spray bottle with lube in it
You would get a lot more use out of your blades if you sharpen them and set them yourself. You can pretty easily sharpen them with a bench grinder and build a pinewoods setter using a vice.
Sharpening on a bench grinder takes just a few seconds per teeth once you get the hang of it. You shape the grinding wheel to the gullet of the blade and the only thing that really matters is that you keep the cutting face of the blade at about 10 degrees. If you sharpen at the first sign of dullness you can get 10 or so sharpening out of a blade and because you always have a sharp blade the lumber ends up straighter and you get more done in the same amount of time.
Quote from: Picky2016 on October 13, 2016, 09:31:23 AM
Got a hold of a big load of cedar logs for decking for next years project. Question, I'm getting blades snapping. First time ever the other day. I'm way up in the sticks, so after shipping, new blades are same price as sharpened blades factoring in two ways for sharpened, one way for new. So I cut to failure. Usually, when I turn blue from pushing mill I change blade or she jumps guides and falls of wheels. I get to about 100-150 board feet of cedar, the clicking starts and then she snaps and throws blade out the dust chute. I'm using trailer tires, bearing guides and no lube. Tracking ok, guides still holding up nice, and i tried lube with no luck. I cut jackpine, poplar, birch, tamarack and now cedar. First sign of probs. not big, just wondering for all you cedar pros out there. White cedar, 8' lengths, been seasoned for two three years in a pile.
Well, tied up all my loose ends before snow flies, just have to tarp up the mill. I have a few people interested in my mills, so I figure I'll dive in and build a "professional" looking mill to be more marketable. I decided on going to heavy walled tubing with four posts so this thing will be a LOT more rigid than the current one. When a buddy offered up the machine shop free gratuit, I jumped. Went and picked up 60' of various tubing this morning and spent two hours on bandsaw. Will NEVER use a chop saw again!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/Untitled_185.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1477187717)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/IMG_4308.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1477313724)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/IMG_4312.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1477313648)
And so, build 2.0 starts. Basically same setup and idea from the first. Just going to CNC bushed wheels for durability and smoothness. And CNC guides with dual greasable bearings. Staying with cable raise/lower. I'm hoping with rigidness, I'll be able to easily add winch raise/lower and power feed if needed. The new engine will be an electric start model, so the juice will be already there.
Busted out drill press at work and drilled all holes. Have to pickup fasteners tomorrow then get to nut welding. Things go a lot smoother second time around! Bearings and bushings are also in at local bearing shop.
Picky
I agree with joe hillman. I some times sharpen every log or two logs. A new blade will get me through a couple of hard wood logs and then I sharpen like mentioned above. I also have tried two of the cheepest blades that cook makes. One is harder then the other. It is the black. I am now buying the silver which is softer. So with the black, it might go a tiny bit longer but then it breaks. I have not broke a silver, the softer one yet.
If I am in a hurry. I will just take a dremal (have used the angle grinder also) and just touch a small area on the back of the point. Maby a quarter inch. If you don't let it get too bad it doesn't take much to make it cut well. It doesn't last that long but I find it worth it. I also do it simular to what kbitze showed in his build thread and sometime I do the gullet. They will never cut quite as good as your first few cuts with a new blade but it is definatly worth grinding on them pretty regular untill you take the set out. If you want to milk you blades and also just for the pleasure of them cutting better making milling easier.
I also don't do resharp. I did get a setter like pinywoods but to be honest, the sharpening untill you lose set gains enough that I don't feel like I am getting ripped for what I get out of a blade.
Just thought I would weigh in.
Good luck
gww
Ps I do all my sharpening free hand with the blade on the mill. I will put a little scratch on the face of the blade of the tooth I start on and when I get to it I am done. If you do it early and often, a little grinding will go a long way.
Yes, I've been thinking about his comments. Built a tempo over mill for winter. Not sure if I'll cut or not. But come springtime when I order some more blades, I'll give her a whirl! Never now, maybe even come up with a sharpener before then.
8)
Gentlemen, been a while but finally got around to finishing 2.0.
Painted and fired up today. My goodness, the difference the weight makes! When you roll her along, she just wants to keep going. No shaking or shimmying along. Solid, and blue.
Can't wait to get back at her!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/IMG_4743.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498525865%5B/image%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttps://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42916/IMG_4744.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498525868)
Looks really good! Congratulations!
Where are those first cuts? Gotta have pictures.
Are those angled cables going to cause troubles cranking the head to maximu height above the bed?