i seen it recommended in another thread and was wondering if anyone was using it and how well it works ???
I use canola oil in my saws. Cheaper and works good.
Some smoker purists don't want bar oil flavoring on there ribs. If using split whole wood for heat and flavor using vegetable oil in the saw will leave out the petroleum flavoring possibility, so I've been told. We smoke a lot of meat here, I use a chainsaw for the obvious reasons and resize my wood on a bandsaw. But, I use Stihl bar oil on my pancakes. :D
I have had customers use it cutting large game and ice blocks where there is already moisture to help cooling but think it might be a poor substitute in wood. I can't see veg oil making it to the underside of the bar where it is needed.
thats what i was wondering im not concerned with using bar oil i just remembered reading that and got to thinking that the veg oil is about 1/2 price of the stihl bar oil but i wondered how good it would lube the bar/chain :)
Works fine for me. Mix it 50/50 with bar oil to start if you're skeptical
Are you asking about straight vegetable oil, or the veggie-based bar oil that Stihl (and others) sell?
I've used Stihl and other brands of veggie-based bar & chain oil with very good results. It actually seems to lubricate better than their regular B&C oil. I started using it because it's required on one of the properties where I cut (by the decision of the group of owners - of which I am one). Once I started using it, it was simpler to just use it all the time rather than keep track of what is in my saws, and change when needed.
It isn't cheap, but it works well. The only problem I've had was with a brand that is no longer available around here. If you left it in your saw, it would eventually stiffen up on the chain, making things hard to move until it ran a bit and got fresh stuff worked into the chain. I've never had that problem in the past 5 years or so. Apparently the newer stuff must have some sort of additive to prevent that from happening.
I've not used straight veggie oil, but a friend has. He does say he's occasionally experienced it stiffening up on the chain (not problem with what is in the tank). If he knows it won't be used for a while, he just runs some petro-oil through it before storing it.
Quote from: John Mc on May 04, 2016, 01:29:52 PM
If he knows it won;t be used for a while, he just runs some petro-oil through it before storing it.
I do the same thing with my 372XP, or at least I have been so far because I've heard that this will happen and the 372 just doesn't get used as much as my 346XP that rides in the scabbard on the winch.
I wonder if you could make a heat box for the saw. Just a light bulb in an enclosed box big enough for a chainsaw. That would keep the saw warm and I would think the veggie oil warm too.
What would warming the veggie oil do?
My saws I run everyday day I use straight canola oil. In the ones that sit the most I keep regular petroleum bar oil in them. Reason I do it is strictly for health reasons as I don't want to breathe in carcinogens in petroleum bar oil mist when it's airborne.
Canola lubricancy is very good , it actually has a higher smoke threshold then petroleum oil. Don't need tacktifier as it doesn't stick after the b/c heats up anyway.
Like others said run petroleum bar oil through it before storage to prevent any plaque buildup issues.
If you only use a jug of oil a year you're best to spend your money on the Stihl Bio Plus bar oil. It's been on the market for as long as I can remember.
Quote from: John Mc on May 04, 2016, 01:29:52 PM
I've not used straight veggie oil, but a friend has. He does say he's occasionally experienced it stiffening up on the chain (not problem with what is in the tank). If he knows it won't be used for a while, he just runs some petro-oil through it before storing it.
Just thought with it stiffening up on the chain some heat "might" make it soften up and flow better. Just an idea.
Chains that have been hanging on a nail for a few years after I run them with canola they seize right up. But with a spray of WD40 it loosens up nicely.
Quote from: thecfarm on May 04, 2016, 05:47:35 PM
Quote from: John Mc on May 04, 2016, 01:29:52 PM
I've not used straight veggie oil, but a friend has. He does say he's occasionally experienced it stiffening up on the chain (not problem with what is in the tank). If he knows it won't be used for a while, he just runs some petro-oil through it before storing it.
Just thought with it stiffening up on the chain some heat "might" make it soften up and flow better. Just an idea.
I think it's more that the veggie oil dried out and hardened up than a temperature thing. (I see the same thing on the griddle I use for my pancakes. I just can't get that hardened on veggie oil off it. Hmmm... I haven't tried spraying it with WD-40)
Use peanut oil instead of canola for cooking.I don't think you'd want to use it bar oil,kinda costly .
Not trying to start a ruckus. I'm not all that green minded and no more oil than I use it's just the stuff they drill for,not plant extracts .
Besides that I've worked in an industrial environment for so long around all kinds of oils .I don't think a tad bit more is going to kill me off any sooner .
Much ado about a little bit of petrolium oil on the ground from chainsaws .It's not like the wreck of the Exon Valdez.It will degrade .Now I can see bio oil around lakes and streams but that's different than in the woods .
All that said use what you want,I'm going to. :)
Well both Stihl and Husqvarna owners manuals both warn about serious health issues breathing in bar oil vapor while running a saw.
So it must hang in the air for a while while you're cutting not just going straight to the ground.
Must be something legit about the hazard if both companies are covering their butts with the warning.
for me this isnt a matter of going green or not or health (as i didnt know it was harmful until i read HolmenTree post :o ) it was strictly about the money as i can get veg oil for about 6 bucks a gallon that is a little more than half what bar oil cost me even buying it by the case ($1 gallon discount). i am all for going green when it makes sense but alot of time it just dont :-\ and when you look into alot of this epa and go green stuff it takes more energy to produce it than the end user would have used to begin with.
Now back to the oil ;D i think i will switch and try it when i use the last of this bar oil i have now :) whats the worst that could happen burn up a bar ??? :D :D :D
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 04, 2016, 10:04:32 PM
Well both Stihl and Husqvarna owners manuals both warn about serious health issues breathing in bar oil vapor while running a saw.
So it must hang in the air for a while while you're cutting not just going straight to the ground.
Must be something legit about the hazard if both companies are covering their butts with the warning.
they must have stocks in veggie oil co :) :)
:D :D :D :D :D it is possible
I have been using soya oil for about 3 years now in my three 260s in the plantations. it works perfect and i protect my land (grounds). There is absolutely no additional wear on the chains or bars! I use soya because that is the cheapest veggie oil around here. In Europe they use rape oil, i dont know if that is the same as canola oil.
In Costa Rica there is no real baroil, all the dealers just sell cheap engineoil and some people put used engine oil in their saws. smiley_embarrased huh-smiley huh-smiley
Yes, rapeseed oil is the same as canola oil.
Quote from: John Mc on May 06, 2016, 09:00:04 AM
Yes, rapeseed oil is the same as canola oil.
Well technically Canola oil can come from several species of Brassica, while Rape Seed is specifically Brassica napus. So Rape seed oil is a type of Canola oil,
But for the purposes of oiling a chain, yes its the same thing. :)
I have never tried veggie oil or canola oil as bar oil, however, I think that is a better purpose for it than as a food. Have ya ever tried to get splattered veggie oil off a range hood? Next to impossible. I hear they use Benzine to separate the oil from the veggie and Benzine is bad stuff.
I think I'll give some a try in my saw.
I use veg oil but with 10% SAE240 oil and 5% diesel mixed in. The gear oil gives the veg oil some anti-fling properties and the diesel give it some cleaning properties.
Canola is a Canadian invention, invented right here in Manitoba in the early 1970's.
Canola means CANadian Oil Low Acid.
Holmentree, are you just using straight up canola oil or are you using the canola based bar and chain oil?
Like right off the grocery store shelf, canola oil...?
Yep right off the grocery store shelf Joe
A good friend works for an environmental disaster clean up company. For petroleum spills in dirt, dirt is moved to company property and routinely turned over until it is tested safe to be released. I am not a qualified professional on the subject. This company is a major one.
Yes, regular oil will be broken down by microbes in the soil and oxygen etc, over time.
This is why a TINY bit of bar oil mixed into the sawdust and chips you leave in the forest isn't really a problem. It's going to break down in a similar way to the sawdust itself. The amount matters of course. A large puddle of oil (or a big heap of chips) might take years or even decades. But by the time the wood has rotted, so has the oil.
Of course vegetable oil oxidizes and breaks down even faster, and is pretty much non-toxic, so it has it's uses.
This polution business has taken an interesting turn,more so I think for the popularity of the subject than any facts .Al Gores' theory of grazing animals are breaking down the 0zone layer is just plain nonsense .Imagine that cow farts ruining the planet,bullocks.
Like everything else they just go nuts .EPA mandated things like non adjustable carbs and the like on small engines.Chainsaw oilers that just barely oil the chain.Ethanol laced gasoline ,made from corn of all things. More so a method for Central Soya, Monsanto ,John Deere to make more money but not really solving a problem as if there were one to begin with .
On the bright side in the 60's you couldn't buy a car that got 30 miles to the gallon unless it was a VW .Then again gasoline was 27 cents a gallon but the average wage was 2 bucks an hour .
So salad oil for lube is just an option for those who would care to try it .They also make a water based lube which I assume is just water with a thickening agent .Industrial KY jelly in some respects .I doubt it would work in a cold climate ,turns into ice ,hard water in a true form .
my opinion of al gore would get me sent to the wood shed or worse >:( >:( >:(
:D Woodshed,aye .Poor old Al, seems some guy ,Chad I believe in Florida just hung around too long and cost him the election .It was toss up anyway .However at a later time he managed to win the Nobel prize in spite of that blarney .Tipper set off to find greener pastures perhaps devoid of bovine flactulations .
Of course all this blarney has nothing to do with salad oil .On same though I spied a field of yellow topped plants of late .Probably 40 acres or more within two miles of me .I had no idea that stuff was planted here in the giant corn field of the midwest .Too many yellow plants I would think to be some sort of weed .
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 07, 2016, 06:50:02 AM
This polution business has taken an interesting turn,more so I think for the popularity of the subject than any facts .Al Gores' theory of grazing animals are breaking down the 0zone layer is just plain nonsense .Imagine that cow farts ruining the planet,bullocks.
Yes, methane gas is polluting the planet. If that is true then when we shot all those millions of Buffalo, back in the eighteen hundreds, we stopped an ecological disaster. Correct? ::)
I was reading during WWII rapeseed oil was used by machinists as it was superior to sticking to wet steel or something like that.
Then the Canadians took the high acid out of the oil which made it edible for human consumption.
I your saw sticky . Any veggie oil I have used for other uses turned to a sticky goo then dried hard . I would think if the saw sat for a month the chain would be stuck in the bar .
Quote from: Gearbox on May 07, 2016, 10:52:28 AM
I your saw sticky . Any veggie oil I have used for other uses turned to a sticky goo then dried hard . I would think if the saw sat for a month the chain would be stuck in the bar .
Imagine what it does inside your body. Flax seed oil makes a dandy wood finish.
I cook with coconut oil myself.
Quote from: Gearbox on May 07, 2016, 10:52:28 AM
I your saw sticky . Any veggie oil I have used for other uses turned to a sticky goo then dried hard . I would think if the saw sat for a month the chain would be stuck in the bar .
No the pure canola I use doesn't have a sticky problem, only if left to sit for a long time on metal in the open
Like I said if you use you saw regularly use it if not use regular petroleum bar oil.
I hear alot about veggie oil used in saws and I wonder what kind of oil it really is.
I hear some use old discarded deep fryer oil , imagine the crap that would contain and putting that into your saw.
Some have reused old cooking oil for biodiesel I'm told .The down side if used fry fish is it emits odor like French fried fish .Kentucky fried chicken might be a better option perhaps .---ya know this bar oil thing has grown legs about like the oil wars --- 8)
Quote from: Gearbox on May 07, 2016, 10:52:28 AM
I your saw sticky . Any veggie oil I have used for other uses turned to a sticky goo then dried hard . I would think if the saw sat for a month the chain would be stuck in the bar .
drying out and being sticky is the luck i've had too but that wouldnt be a problem with my saw :) theres not 3 days a month mine is not run at last a few minutes ;D
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 07, 2016, 11:44:26 AM
Some have reused old cooking oil for biodiesel I'm told .
I'm sure it is possible as you'd need a multi million dollar operation to do that to make it profitable .
But we're getting a little off topic about someone straining that used fryer oil through a sieve ..
Oh it's only slightly bent off course ;D .On the subject though what about straining old fryer oil through those home made filters made of toilet paper rolls some have strained used crankcase oil through .Oil is oil and that would be an option for the "super" recyclers .Now I'm not going to do it but somebody might run with it .
A ten foot section of 4" pvc pipe,4-5 paper rolls and three days for it to dribble through the filters . Not counting cost of the filter the oil in essence would be free .You can't get it any cheaper than that .
Still don't know if that would get the high acids out of the oil though. I'm no expert on the subject but I think high acid content in bar oil would cause more oxidation and corrosive problems.
Just wondering how the viscosity of canola or other oils affect the sharpening process of the chain, does it just slip'n'slide?.
On a lighter note, I've heard of some that have used spent engine oil to lube, but seriously don't know how effective this would be....
Quote from: 49er on May 06, 2016, 09:28:26 AM
I have never tried veggie oil or canola oil as bar oil, however, I think that is a better purpose for it than as a food. Have ya ever tried to get splattered veggie oil off a range hood? Next to impossible. I hear they use Benzine to separate the oil from the veggie and Benzine is bad stuff.
I think I'll give some a try in my saw.
When I was younger the old man had a restaurant. We used to clean the coffee machine, fridges, bar, ice maker, anything made from stainless steel with gin. Mind you, gin in those days and where I was located at the time was pretty cheap (about 2-3 bucks a bottle). However, metho works just as well, and mixed with water 50/50 works great as a glass cleaner and is the only thing I ever used to clean tinted windows on my vehicle.
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 07, 2016, 06:50:02 AM
This polution business has taken an interesting turn,more so I think for the popularity of the subject than any facts .Al Gores' theory of grazing animals are breaking down the 0zone layer is just plain nonsense .Imagine that cow farts ruining the planet,bullocks.
Like everything else they just go nuts .EPA mandated things like non adjustable carbs and the like on small engines.Chainsaw oilers that just barely oil the chain.Ethanol laced gasoline ,made from corn of all things. More so a method for Central Soya, Monsanto ,John Deere to make more money but not really solving a problem as if there were one to begin with .
On the bright side in the 60's you couldn't buy a car that got 30 miles to the gallon unless it was a VW .Then again gasoline was 27 cents a gallon but the average wage was 2 bucks an hour .
So salad oil for lube is just an option for those who would care to try it .They also make a water based lube which I assume is just water with a thickening agent .Industrial KY jelly in some respects .I doubt it would work in a cold climate ,turns into ice ,hard water in a true form .
Why Not, Dinosaur farts ruined the planet millions of years ago, it's just taken millions of years for it to recover. :D
The subject of flatulation could grow legs I suppose .They claim termites are the worst offenders .Perhaps we need more ardvarks .Al Gore ,where fore art thou when we need you? This is serious business . 8)
Okay enough feeble attempt at humor at o-dark thirty in the morning .
This recycled veggie oil business ,I read just yesterday about recycling fryer oil .They use scraps of old blue jeans for filtration .They claim it does a pretty fair job however no method found by experimenters can rid the stuff of smelling like a fish if used for that .
French Fry oil has been used on scuba driving boats for 20 years
And thats why divers get attacked by sharks so often....
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 09:15:54 AM
And thats why divers get attacked by sharks so often....
Would you like fries with that? :D
Wal-Mart has Liquid Wrench Bio Based bar oil for $43.63 a gal. :o Think I will run down a get a couple gallons NOT!!!!!!!
I am not saying that you guys are lying about your results or anything...
I have tried the Bio Bar and Chain oil from my local saw shop (land owner's request) and I didn't think it was as good quality at all... I had the same issues with the chain getting sticky if I didn't use the saw everyday. It was very very thin in summer and would FLY off the chain, and too thick in winter. The chain was always DRY and I would blow bar tips right and left... When I run regular bar and chain, I don't have any issues and the chain is sopping wet. Is it really better for the planet or your health?? Maybe so, all I know is that I poured a equal amount (one cup) of Bio B&C and Conventional B&C in my lawn, and both oils killed my grass overnight... Plus I can get conventional B&C for under $10 and Bio oil is over $20 per gallon! Logging has enough expenses, last thing I want to do it make my operation costs go up. Why pay more for less quality??!!
I had the sticky problem with the veggie based bar oil years ago. The manufacturer reformulated and it worked much better. I could actually turn down my oiler with the veggie-based stuff compared to what I had to set it on for petro-oil.
I use the Stihl veggie oil now because it's the only stuff that is easily available in my area. Not cheap, but on two of the places I regularly cut firewood, it's REQUIRED to use it. I'm happy with the quality, have used it down to about 15˚F with no problems, and also use it in the summer (though I avoid doing extensive chainsaw use when the temps get really hot - which by VT standards means upper 80s or more).
There are additives to make veggie oil more sticky.
My uncle used it for years for butchering big animals like moose.
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity. The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.
Quote from: ppine on June 15, 2016, 09:48:08 AM
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity. The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.
This was my experience, the oil would FLY off and the chain would always be dry. And I kept blowing new bar tips... When I run the conventional bar and chain, I have no issues and my bar tips last forever...
Also, the Stihl Bio B&C is made from waste veggie oil from restaurants, that's why it's so dark looking, No way would I run a waste product in a $800+ chain saw!
Quote from: danbuendgen on June 15, 2016, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: ppine on June 15, 2016, 09:48:08 AM
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity. The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.
Also, the Stihl Bio B&C is made from waste veggie oil from restaurants, that's why it's so dark looking, No way would I run a waste product in a $800+ chain saw!
Show us proof Stihl uses waste veggie oil.
Stihl just spent $99 Million US.dollars in upgrades. Do you think their going to mess with waste oil.
And even if they did it's the right thing to do in a green business sense and still have the best quality product on the market.
http://www.powerequipmenttrade.com/stihl-completes-multi-million-investment-germany/
If you have a Swedish or German saw and use it hard and make a living with it, why would you even consider going cheap and using dirty engine oil for your bar oiler?
Lubricants are very important for chain saws to function. They run at high rpms and generate a lot of heat. Use the best lubricants you can find. I used to use "Optimol" made in Germany. Now there are probably better ones. It cost more, but lasted longer. You could use less in a tank.
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 15, 2016, 11:01:20 PM
Quote from: danbuendgen on June 15, 2016, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: ppine on June 15, 2016, 09:48:08 AM
For everything else, I think it is too thin without enough viscosity. The rotation of the chain tends to fling it off.
Also, the Stihl Bio B&C is made from waste veggie oil from restaurants, that's why it's so dark looking, No way would I run a waste product in a $800+ chain saw!
Show us proof Stihl uses waste veggie oil.
Stihl just spent $99 Million US.dollars in upgrades. Do you think their going to mess with waste oil.
And even if they did it's the right thing to do in a green business sense and still have the best quality product on the market.
http://www.powerequipmenttrade.com/stihl-completes-multi-million-investment-germany/
I don't want to start a war, I don't care what folks use for B&C. All I know is the last time I used the Stihl Bio oil it was very dark brown, then I tried the Husky type and it was very light in color, my local saw shop told me (at the time, 2 years ago) that Husky used virgin oil from sunflowers, and Stihl used waste veggie oil. And that's how it looked when I poured it out...
Also, I don't want to be a jerk, I don't understand "Green Business Sense". With the amount of fuel I burn, gas and diesel, the small leaks in the equipment, tires I buy, blowing hydraulic hoses, buying oil constantly, oil changes every 100 hours in the 240 with Detroit, 200 in the Rottne, one or two tubes of grease per day in the logging equipment, there is nothing "Green" in the industry, Period. I am all about curbing pollution, eating health organic veggies from my garden, but again, the bio oil kills the lawn just like the conventional oil does, the "Green Revolution" seems to be a scam to me. Just a way for some people to make lots of money off everyone....
Well said Dan, but we're just talking about a little chain saw oil selection not for a Timber Jack 240 skidder and other logging equipment.
Don't always believe what your saw dealer says . The Stihl Bio was probably old inventory sitting for years.
Dan brings up a good point. There is nothing wrong with being aware of the effects of the decisions we make. A lot of the advertising is hype to sell stuff. Separate it from the realities of making a living and making your equipment last.
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 16, 2016, 10:17:30 PM
Well said Dan, but we're just talking about a little chain saw oil selection not for a Timber Jack 240 skidder and other logging equipment.
Don't always believe what your saw dealer says . The Stihl Bio was probably old inventory sitting for years.
I am just saying that the logging/tree service/firewood industry is not "Green" at all but, honestly nothing else is either. I mean, we all drive a car, heat our homes, use electricity, go to the landfill, buy food from half way across the planet, ect, none of which are Green or sustainable.
Also, when I mentioned my equipment before, just saying that I honestly can't afford to spend more on something as trivial as bar oil, my costs are high enough as it is. For a home owner cutting up some firewood now and then, that's a different economical story all together...one gallon of b&c could last them a year! I can go through a 2 cases of b&c a week if I work 7 days, that would be around $180 per week, so I want the cheap stuff that works well, for under half the cost, And in my experience double the quality...
And I am not anti-bio b&c, I could care less about bar oil types. I just haven't had good luck with any of the brands of bio oil that I have tried, Stihl and Husky and some thing else I can't remember what it is. In fact I have had nothing but problems with it. And with my little DIY back yard science experiment, both oils killed the lawn bio and conventional, so I don't bio b&c any better for the planet. And I don't think the Stihl oil was sitting around for years, they move a lot of it. Lots of "crunchy" home owners go in there and buy it. And the Asplundh and Davey crews are required to use it when working around wet lands, I see them buying it by the case full.
On the other hand, forestry is one of the original green industries. We grow everything we need. The old log trains ran on waste wood from the logging operations. Burning wood for heat is carbon neutral because combustion releases the same amount of carbon that was absorbed by the a tree during its life.
Quote from: ppine on June 19, 2016, 07:57:08 PM
On the other hand, forestry is one of the original green industries. We grow everything we need. The old log trains ran on waste wood from the logging operations. Burning wood for heat is carbon neutral because combustion releases the same amount of carbon that was absorbed by the a tree during its life.
You are totally right about that, it goes both ways. I just get upset about all the petroleum products needed now-a-days...I hate having to give so much of my hard earned money right to big oil company's and I honestly forget how logging has good benefits also...
To be honest I never bought Stihl or Husqvarna bio oil.
Only canola oil from the grocery store for about $6 a gallon jug.
I've been running saws for 42 years now and my lungs are not as good as they used to be.
I use the canola as its been proven that petroleum bar mist in the air is hazardous to your lungs. And since running canola for about 10 years now I'm breathing alot better.
Also running Stihl Ultra full synthetic mix in my fuel which is also claimed to be bio degradable.
You're only 29 now Dan but trust me it will catch up with you.
I'm going to try the canola oil,but i find stihl Ultra gives me headaches (known phenomena)
Quote from: skipster on June 20, 2016, 04:03:09 AM
I'm going to try the canola oil,but i find stihl Ultra gives me headaches (known phenomena)
I had a buddy helping me last winter, and he ran the Stihl saws and Stihl Ultra saw fuel, and I could not stand the smell. I could smell the exhaust from a long ways away... I used some of his saw fuel once when I was low, and I could not stand it. It also gave me a headache...I am sure its good quality, but it smelled awful.
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 19, 2016, 11:45:50 PM
Only canola oil from the grocery store for about $6 a gallon jug.
I've been running saws for 42 years now and my lungs are not as good as they used to be.
I use the canola as its been proven that petroleum bar mist in the air is hazardous to your lungs. And since running canola for about 10 years now I'm breathing alot better.
Oh, I know the bar oil mist in not good. Nothing is these days, I just spent all day working on my forwarder. I got covered in machine grime from fingertip to shoulder... I know that crap causes cancer... We live in a nasty world.
Holmantree, you run canola oil and don't have any issues with your bar and chain gumming up if you don't run the saw daily? How long do your bar tips and oil pump last? I see you do tree work, that is what I used to do before logging, so I know you don't put a ton of hours on a saw in a day, but I am just wondering how long you tips and pumps last. At $6 per gallon that's cheap... I would consider trying it if I knew my saws would not have issues. I cant afford downtime. Like have said before, I have had poor luck with the Stihl and Husky Bio Oil, and its $20 per gallon. I am well aware of the effects of oil mist and saw exhaust... If the canola oil works for you long term I would try it.
When I get a chance to start cutting again, to busy at work and yard care, I think I'm gonna try a 50/50 mix of canola and bar oil hoping to doesn't gum up as bad for sitting for a few weeks.
Never had a issue with bar tips, oil pumps or gumming up problems running canola. A saw can sit for the summer and never had issues. Had a chain once that I hung on the wall for a couple of years after running it with canola and it got pretty stiff. Soaked it in varasol for a few seconds and was as limber as a noodle again.
If the saw is put in storage let's say 6 months then yes drain the canola and run the saw for a bit with regular bar oil .
I'm not running canola to save money... far from it.
Just for my lungs and forgot to mention my wife like it not grimeing up the washing machine.
Just give it a try and see what you think....that's the only advice I can give you. ::)
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 20, 2016, 10:29:32 PM
If the saw is put in storage let's say 6 months then yes drain the canola and run the saw for a bit with regular bar oil .
My saws never sit around, I work 6-7 days per week if the weather is good. The only time I slow down, on rain days. There is mud season (spring time) also, but then I am busy working on firewood. So the most they sit is a few days to a week. When I was running the bio bar oil my chain and bar rails would gum up in a few days...especially in summer time. Seems like the heat from the bar and chain would make it much worse. I will price out the canola oil next time I am at the grocery store.
I keep the Husky Pro-Forest in stock for those who want to run it. I don't use it myself. I won't get into the politcal aspect of the debate, but there are some realties that exist on saws that see a lot of this oil.
Primarily there is a caking problem that affects the cooling of the saw, and the ease of working on it. The veg oil mixes with the sawdust and literally bakes itself into a much harder substance than you get with conventional bar oil. In most cases this stuff can't be blown out with air and must be scraped out with tools. If not maintained properly it will build up and cook the saw.
Some oils are worse than others. The Husky oil seems to be in the middle as far as this issue goes. I had one tree service customer who was using some oil he was buying from Canada that was horrible. The build up would get rock hard and it was a pain just to work on the saws. Every screw head had to be scraped clean and "excavated" so you could get a tool in it. Every saw had a gross smell to it; in fact the whole shop would have that smell when he'd drop off some saws.
Got to the point that I had to tell him either he changes oil or he needs to find another shop. I just didn't want to work on those saws anymore. Keep in mind, that this is one of my best customers, but that's how bad it was and I had enough. From his perspective, he accepted the reality that some of his saws blowing up was due to that hardened build up. He switched to the Husky oil and we're both a lot happier now. :laugh:
The stuff I had the problem with years ago with it stiffening up on the chain (and now that Spike60 mentioned it, it also caked onto other parts of the saw) was also from Canada. That was back in 2007 or 2008, I believe. A couple of years later, they must have reformulated it, because the problem got noticeably better (but did not go away entirely).
The local supplier stopped carrying it. I've never had the problem with the Stihl stuff. I haven't tried the Husqvarna veggie oil yet. I've not seen anyone around here carrying it.
I think the problem with canola (Canadian oil low acid) is it doesn't work in the United States :D :) ;)
Back on topic canola is virtually odorless. Nice clean pure oil.
Never had a plugged up cylinder or buildup up of canola residue.
Whenever I service my saw I spray a light coating of Fluid Film underneath the sprocket cover avoiding the clutch drum and shoes. Once a year pop off the chain brake mechanisms cover and spray Fluid Film under there also.
Quote from: Spike60 on June 21, 2016, 06:36:47 AM
Primarily there is a caking problem that affects the cooling of the saw, and the ease of working on it. The veg oil mixes with the sawdust and literally bakes itself into a much harder substance than you get with conventional bar oil. In most cases this stuff can't be blown out with air and must be scraped out with tools. If not maintained properly it will build up and cook the saw.
This is a issue I had with the Stihl and Husky bio oil. I got baked into my bar rail big time. I would constantly have to clean out the bar rail or it would get plugged up with baked on oil and saw dust. And I could not remove it. I lost a few bars dew to this and said "screw it" back to the conventional oil.
Holmantree, looked at the veggie oil at the grocery store, I am not sure what things are like in Canada, but here the canola oil costs more then bio bar oil...
Around here I can pick 1 gal of "great value" walmart brand 100% canola oil for $5.98...4.7 cents per oz...sounds like a deal to me. Perhaps you can purchase it and have it shipped to you, or pick up in store. What upscale grocery stores are you shopping at ?
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on June 22, 2016, 08:52:16 PM
Around here I can pick 1 gal of "great value" walmart brand 100% canola oil for $5.98...4.7 cents per oz...sounds like a deal to me. Perhaps you can purchase it and have it shipped to you, or pick up in store. What upscale grocery stores are you shopping at ?
I will try wal-mart next time I am there. I go there for all my motor oil, both trucks need a oil change, so I will be there soon.
I am still concerned about the veggie oil issues...I may just stick with real oil and not mess around.
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 20, 2016, 10:29:32 PM
Never had a issue with bar tips, oil pumps or gumming up problems running canola. ....
I can say the same. Mind you, I only use the chainsaw maybe 100 hrs a year. I use the old oil (usually 100% veg) from the fryer at the house (after many batches of donuts) :) Sometimes I use it straight, sometimes I mix it 50/50 with a cheap bar oil. Simply using it because I can, as there's no place to dispose of it. If the oil has crap in it, I'll first pass it (warmed up first, hot enough to the touch) through a paper towel resting in a sieve. When the saw comes apart for touching up the chain on the benchtop grinder, the saw gets inspected and cleaned out if necessary. I see no difference in caking whether its store bought oil, 50/50 or the fryer oil. My nickle's worth of experience.
What is the temperature range that you are running the canola oil at, coldest to hottest days?
I run a CNC machine shop and our Kitamura horizontal mill drinks way oil. It's used to create the sliding surface that moves the 16,000 pound spindle casting 2000 IPM. Just the way lube side of the machine uses about a gallon every couple days. The oil coing off the saddle is still absolutely clean. I just haven't got the guts to reuse it on the ways of a $480,000 machine, but it makes great bar oil.
I created a separate skimmer to catch the waste oil off the saddle so it doesn't contaminate the coolant. #2 way lube has loads of tackifiers that just happen to make it work very well as bar oil. It's all I've used for years. My friends who are professional loggers come grab my stash of 5 gallon pails as well.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on July 19, 2016, 04:51:03 PM
What is the temperature range that you are running the canola oil at, coldest to hottest days?
I don't run straight canola oil, I run the commercial veggie oil stuff (presently Stihl, but I have run other brands). I ran it in 90˚F for a few days recently, which is about as hot a day as I've ever run it. I've also run it at about 10 or 15˚F. I did not notice any problems. I don't often cut in those temperatures, however. A more typical range would be 20 - 80˚F.
Not sure if the commercial veggie bar oil has any additives in it to extend the temperature range or not.
I did a small experiment during the weekend.
Veggie oils don't have sticking/anti-fling properties as much as non-veggie oils unless an additive is used.
I was looking at several additives that have this property, an essential in a chain lubricant. That was when I thought of sesame oil. We use it a lot on cast iron and iron cooking utensils for seasoning the cooking surface and as a protective coating on the side that faces the heat. Sesame oil unlike other oils does not wash off so easily.
So I added 10% sesame oil in vegetable oil and tried it in a chainsaw.
And it works! The oil sticks much better, as good as store bought chain oils.
Interesting experiment! I never would have thought of it.
I read through this post a while back and was convinced to try vegetable oil. (Holmen had a very strong case for it)😀I'm very pleased with the results. I use straight up the cheapest veg oil from Walmart for milling. I did turn my oiler down a bit because of the thinner consistency, but it rides along to the tip very nicely. So far, I would recommend it over recommend it over reg bar oil for milling. My bar and chain stay cooler with it. (I have my opinions as to why, but I'm just guessing) . By the way, I'm using a 36" bar on an 09 395xp. That's my $0.01.
Hmmm, very interesting. I use saw dust from Junking my wood as mulch for my garden. I'll be trying Veg Oil next weekend.
Quote from: joe_indi on August 22, 2016, 12:38:52 AM
I did a small experiment during the weekend.
Veggie oils don't have sticking/anti-fling properties as much as non-veggie oils unless an additive is used.
I was looking at several additives that have this property, an essential in a chain lubricant. That was when I thought of sesame oil. We use it a lot on cast iron and iron cooking utensils for seasoning the cooking surface and as a protective coating on the side that faces the heat. Sesame oil unlike other oils does not wash off so easily.
So I added 10% sesame oil in vegetable oil and tried it in a chainsaw.
And it works! The oil sticks much better, as good as store bought chain oils.
Good to see you got good rusults with your experiment. Not all vegetable oils are the same, I think the one that was mentioned earlier was canola oil being used. Now I think they have gm canola state side so it may be different again. Another vegetable oil that is causing havoc in the tropics is palm oil and a lot of that is being produced quite cheap, and labeled as vegetable oil also. Good to hear about the tackiness of sesame seed oil, I think by memory it not a cheap oil to buy here.
So how many people here actually just use Vegetable Oil? So far I've only seen HolmenTree say that he uses it straight.
I've been using Canola oil exclusively for about ten years now. I'm a full time chainsaw carver for over 20 years now, and my saws get used almost every day, year round. I see no reason to use anything other than Canola. The only tiny drawback is the saw gets a bit dirtier more quickly.....just gotta do a quick cleaning a little more often. "Tack Additives" in oil is a bunch of BS. I want my bar/chain oiled....no need for tack. My chains are never dry, they are always nice and oily when I use canola.
I used to have plugged/problematic oilers years ago on a regulat basis. I have had almost no plugged oilers since I started using Canola
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Chainsaw10.
Thanks ;D
Welcome Chainsaw 10 .
welcome chainsaw 10. But with chainsaw carving I believe your in a cleaner environment say than a logger. tree gets felled, skidded threw mud and creek sand to landing then bucked up. I would think that theres a big difference in the environment of the chains. Not argueing just thinking :P
Killamplanes, after all that wood going through mud and sand on the way to the landing ....more thought will be on filing that chain then worrying about lubrication :D
Carving all day on long cuts in every direction to the grain is super strenuous on a sawchain and those dime tip carver bars. Especially hard on little 1/4" .043 chain.
I also use Canola oil in my stihl ms661 with a 32" bar for big cuts. I don't just have little saws with carving bars. I find Canola keeps everything lubricated well.....big or small.
Hi all, after reading this forum on and off for years this thread has prompted me to register so that I can add my two cents worth about using vegetable oil for bar and chain lubrication.
I have been using various types of vegetable oil in my saws for over twenty years, mainly canola or sunflower, both new from the store and after it has been used for frying. Lately I have been using discarded cottonseed oil (someone gave me about 30 gallons).
I have not noticed any increase in bar/chain wear, and more importantly, breathing is much easier. :-)
Re the cottonseed oil, even though it is used, it seems to create less gum than the others. The gum is the result of a chemical process called polymerization where the individual molecules are linked together to form chains of molecules.
Polymerization occurs at normal temperatures but increases at higher temperatures and the more unsaturated* the oil, the faster the polymerization. Higher temperatures will also generally create a harder gum.
*This tallys with my seeing less gum when using cottonseed oil which has about 26% saturated fat, whereas canola has about 7% of the saturated stuff. Hey I looked it up on the internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottonseed_oil
Interesting info, Micheall.
... and welcome to the Forestry Forum. If you get a chance, fill in your user profile so we know where you are from.
Quote from: Stuart Caruk on July 19, 2016, 10:11:33 PM
I run a CNC machine shop and our Kitamura horizontal mill drinks way oil. It's used to create the sliding surface that moves the 16,000 pound spindle casting 2000 IPM. Just the way lube side of the machine uses about a gallon every couple days. The oil coing off the saddle is still absolutely clean. I just haven't got the guts to reuse it on the ways of a $480,000 machine, but it makes great bar oil.
I created a separate skimmer to catch the waste oil off the saddle so it doesn't contaminate the coolant. #2 way lube has loads of tackifiers that just happen to make it work very well as bar oil. It's all I've used for years. My friends who are professional loggers come grab my stash of 5 gallon pails as well.
I'm also using way oil. I a full 55 gal drum of new to use.
Works great.
I read that too and really started thinking after buying some bar oil at TSC that was on sale, cheap. Soon as I opened the bottle and started to fill a saw I wondered what I had, the oil looked like something nasty I have seen come out of my newly acquired antique tractors. Definitely going to try the vegetable oil and at least read the label on my Stihl bar oil.
Been buying TSC bar and chain oil for years. I think I have 20 gallons? or more? When it it was on sale I would buy 4 bottles when I went by.
It has always looked the same. So far. ;D Who knows what will show up in my stash.
I have not bought any for 6 months. Going to work my stash down some.
My uncle Alaska Bob used to use vegetable oil in his saw for butchering large animals like moose and caribou because it would not taint the meat. Otherwise it seems like a bad idea. You need high viscosity to keep the oil on the chain and bar at high revolutions.
A friend of mine uses his motor oil after he changes the oil in his truck. I have yet to hear him tell me of any trouble using that. Yet...but he has been doing it for years.
i used it for years with no issues i now have 25 5gal buckets of iso 100 chevron oil i got off CL for 5 bucks a pail they say its rock drill oil that stuff is some tacky
Ok I wakened this old thread. Just read about canola oil in place of bar oil. Sounded neat, did some reading of old threads.
The facts are:
Canola oil can be had for about $6/gallon at Walmart and other superstores (costco, sams, etc)
Some folks don't like the bio bar oils
Lots of reports of folks using all manner of recycled veg oil for years
Some folks added higher saturated fat oil to canola to get a bit more tackiness
Question:
Has any logger ever used canola oil or the like full time?
I have an 11 year old that needs a science experiment and we're going to cut 12-15 acres and could start with new chains and compare at the end of the cut (bar oil vs veg oil- this logger hand cuts). Be a neat experiment, could do a microscope examination of the chains after the crew finished.
It may be tough to control other variables: a dull chain will cause more wear on the bar than a sharp one, and there is no guarantee that the two chains will see the same action. But still, it will be an interesting experiment.
I've used the commercially sold veggie bar oil for years, which is basically canola oil with some additives. (It's required on one of the properties where I cut firewood.) The manufacturers claim that it lubricates better than the petroleum-based oils.
I had a Husqvarna rep at Arborcon tell me that if you buy a husqy run husqy oil, if a stihl than run stihl oil, etc...he said they each design their oil pumps to be used with their oil. You will get longer bar/chain life if you run the oil designed for your saw. Besides if you are a homeowner that $12 gallon of bar oil should last awhile. I dont get why you would spend several hundred on a saw and than run a different bar oil to try and save a few dollars.
I have never ever run sthil bar oil in any of my 5 stihl's in the last 20years and never had a pump failure. You can't even buy original stihl bar oil here. Just put in whatever serves you best.
I have a drum of hyd oil left from the oil change on my big excavator, so instead of buying bar oil (which in Costa Rica is a cheap motoroil sold even by the chainsaw dealers at 10$/gal :o) i just use this oil. before i used soya oil for about 6 years and it works also very good, it's just every veggie oil is going to rancid and they make a sticky mess on every part of the saw who touches oil, and it's hard to clean.
Quote from: teakwood on September 10, 2017, 09:18:34 AM
I have never ever run sthil bar oil in any of my 5 stihl's in the last 20years and never had a pump failure. You can't even buy original stihl bar oil here. Just put in whatever serves you best. Ip
I have a drum of hyd oil left from the oil change on my big excavator, so instead of buying bar oil (which in Costa Rica is a cheap motoroil sold even by the chainsaw dealers at 10$/gal :o) i just use this oil. before i used soya oil for about 6 years and it works also very good, it's just every veggie oil is going to rancid and they make a sticky mess on every part of the saw who touches oil, and it's hard to clean.
I didnt say you can't I'm just saying you shouldnt. Hell put old motor oil in it if you wabt idc. But for the average joe that does not do regular bar maintenance they should use oil designed for that system...I can just paint the end grain of my logs with walmart paint but Anchorseal will do a better job...all I'm sayin.
Dated thread but this thread is how I found this site, I would like to expand on veggie oil for future folks looking into this. After running about 10 jugs of canola oil through my saw I can say I'm happy with it, I notice zero difference other than in mid cut it will smell like I'm cooking a batch of frys. Much cheaper than 19$ CAD a jug(7$ a jug). It almost seems to good to be true.
In the summer months I suspect I may half to mix a little actual B/C oil in it to thicken it up. but it has been great for me so far in -10 up to +10 C temps.
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, @HemlockKing (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=55126)
The only drawback I've found with running straight veggie oil is that it can eventually harden onto the chain if it sits for too long. (Much like that residual crust that forms in the bottom of a cast iron frying pan.) If you are using the saw regularly, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue. When I did try straight veggie oil for a time, if I knew I would not be using the saw for a while, I'd fill up the last tank with petroleum based oil, and run enough through to get that out on the chain before storing.
The commercially sold "bio-blend" chainsaw oils seem to have solved this issue, I assume through some additives. I leave the Stihl green jug Bio-oil in my saws year round. It is thinner than their summer weight oil, so it works well in the winter, but I use it year round, and if anything, it seems to lubricate better than the petroleum oil, even in the summer - enough so that I turn the oiler down a notch on my saw with no ill effects.
Quote from: John Mc on May 04, 2016, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on May 04, 2016, 05:47:35 PM
Quote from: John Mc on May 04, 2016, 01:29:52 PM
I've not used straight veggie oil, but a friend has. He does say he's occasionally experienced it stiffening up on the chain (not problem with what is in the tank). If he knows it won't be used for a while, he just runs some petro-oil through it before storing it.
Just thought with it stiffening up on the chain some heat "might" make it soften up and flow better. Just an idea.
I think it's more that the veggie oil dried out and hardened up than a temperature thing. (I see the same thing on the griddle I use for my pancakes. I just can't get that hardened on veggie oil off it. Hmmm... I haven't tried spraying it with WD-40)
Im jumping ahead here.. Maybe ive read the thread way back i dont recall.. But its polymerization. Vegetable oils react to metals. Copper/brass the worst, stainless and alumin the least and plastic not at all. Heat accelerates the process. It makes a plastic that people call "poly" and smells like oil based paint, which is linseed oil reacting with oxygen to make a cap that the sublayers harden under.
Anyway veggie oils are very high in lubricity and fairly clingy. Flows well hot but the muffler heat will make a tank want to skin up so i would dump it at the end of the day.
You could make up a PVC cylinder back at the shop full of old gas or something to dip the bar and chain in at the end of the day to rinse off the bulk of the veggie so it doesnt poly up. If you see green and black goo its found some copper.
I've been running pure to 50/50 mix canola oil/bar oil for years now with no issues. YMMV...
There is as much big ado with bar lube about like oil /gas mix ratios and aviation gasoline used in a chainsaw engine instead of regular old buy it anywhere pump gas .
I suppose some people who are extremely into eco friendly alternatives would be interested in using cooking/salad oils .More so than who would consider using bar oil on a tossed salad .
Regular old buy it any where bar oil is just oil with a tacking agent .Cheap works just as well as that stuff that comes in an orange bottle .The brand loyal types will always go with the brand ,it's a Ford Chevy thing IMO .
It's not like a chainsaw is like the wreck Exon Valdez on the rocks .What little they blow on the ground will be gone in very quick order .It's none of my business though what they use except the amusement factor . :D
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 24, 2021, 10:33:55 AM
There is as much big ado with bar lube about like oil /gas mix ratios and aviation gasoline used in a chainsaw engine instead of regular old buy it anywhere pump gas .
I suppose some people who are extremely into eco friendly alternatives would be interested in using cooking/salad oils .More so than who would consider using bar oil on a tossed salad .
Regular old buy it any where bar oil is just oil with a tacking agent .Cheap works just as well as that stuff that comes in an orange bottle .The brand loyal types will always go with the brand ,it's a Ford Chevy thing IMO .
It's not like a chainsaw is like the wreck Exon Valdez on the rocks .What little they blow on the ground will be gone in very quick order .It's none of my business though what they use except the amusement factor . :D
For me, the eco friendly part was a plus,
Mainly for me though it comes down to cost. I can’t afford a 15$ jug of bar oil every day or 2. Also mentioned earlier the mist oil that sprays off the bar is less toxic to inhale
Anyhoot, I’m still running 100% veggie oil in almost summer heat recently, still no problems. Probably 30-40 jugs in
They say used crankcase oil works but even being a tight wad I'm not that tight .You could probably use eco friendly stuff which is basically thinned down KY jelly .Water with a thickener agent added .Come to think of it that stuff might be the hot ticket to use when slipping a tire on a rim being water based
I just wait until I find some petro based oil on sale and buy 4-5-8 gallons whatever .TSC used to have it on the cheap but locally all they had was high priced oil from a manufacturer located in Sweden which is just as high priced as a saw maker in Germany .
Al, I just went into TSC. I found their brand of oil way up high. Those orange gallons was down low so a customer could found it. ;)
I had over 20 gallons of TSC, at one time. Every time it would come on sale I would buy 4-6 gallons of it.
Vegetable oil for seasoning the cast iron frying pan and TSC for bar oil here.
I only go through about a gallon a year here cutting just firewood.
Not trying to be a smarty but trying to figure on my saw how much I saved over the years. I use 100 % used bar oil. My 066 is 17 now and going strong. I usually cut about 10 to 12 cords a year. So that is approximately say 180 cords of wood. Can anyone tell me how many gallons of oil they would have used on that job? I never figured my oil to cord of wood before. This is blocking up the wood also and using chainsaw to split big ugly crotches. Cany leave them in the woods ya know. Mabe some of you have kept better track of things.
Whenever i see sub $6 a gallon bar oil at rural king i get one. Usually cam2 or RK brand. But ive run many gallons of motor oil and have totes and drums full of french fry oil. I guess i should just switch to that all around. No idea why i never have. Ill cut it with a little diesel to flow.
I've always used the tacky stuff, but when Mount St. Helens blew in 1980(?), it was a requirement on gov't. land to use veggie oil in the saws for enviro purposes. It was pretty goofy, like they were treating the ravaged area as a sterile environment, the bubble boy if you will. The biggest concern for the cutters though was chain, with the pumice dust on everything. Everybody wanted carbide tip chain.
I always figured a little sheen of oil on the mud puddles helps keep the mosquitoes down.
Quote from: tawilson on May 25, 2021, 12:42:48 PM
I always figured a little sheen of oil on the mud puddles helps keep the mosquitoes down.
Helps keep the fish and other wildlife down as well.
:D
Quote from: BradMarks on May 25, 2021, 11:39:17 AM
I've always used the tacky stuff, but when Mount St. Helens blew in 1980(?), it was a requirement on gov't. land to use veggie oil in the saws for enviro purposes. It was pretty goofy, like they were treating the ravaged area as a sterile environment, the bubble boy if you will. The biggest concern for the cutters though was chain, with the pumice dust on everything. Everybody wanted carbide tip chain.
I was offered a job up there bucking the OG that blew down. I was having trouble breathing just walking around Portland, so.....
Even my young, dumb dare-brain said, nah.
I always wondered about those guys and how they came out later in life...health wise.
The ash was small enough to trash most air breathing motors in short order.....you had to have oiled, foam filters at the least. Yeah, I imagine the chain was a real obstacle in that ash.
Kevin
There was detection of that ash clear to Ohio from St Helens .For the next several years it rained cats and dogs .Soy beans hit 9 dollars a bushel, they couldn't get them out of the fields .I have no idea exactly how long that event just plain messed up the weather patterns .
I bought my first farm in Chehalis, WA around '83 and the main livestock barn still had ash piles on the metal roof. Removed the ash and there was bare metal underneath...galvanizing completely gone.
Neighbor was using ash to make pottery and glass stuff. He became somewhat of a celebrity with the hipster doofus crowd.
Kevin