Hi everyone.
Some may remember I was searching for a good light-weight, firewood saw a whilst back, well I ended up with a stihl ms362cmqtronic thingamagigy hot off the press, as some may remember. Rather than having a whinge about the saw, i'm having a whinge about the wood now. Some of those bigger logs are so darn heavy. Having to load them on the trailer has put my back out again. Doing a few logs aint so bad, but when one is constantly bending over, picking em up and carrying them to the trailer, I really feel it the next day once I cool down, to the point where I cant get out of bed. I Know some may suggest use a wheel burrow, but 9 times out of 10 it just aint possible. So far the best mode of transport for firewood is by foot due to the nature of the terrain, (unless someone has managed to grow wings or has some other ideas). My question is, does anyone use a back brace when collecting fire wood off the forest floor, what type and brand please?. Are there any speciality braces with pockets and the like to carry things that one would use whilst chaining?. I'll post my opinions on the new saw in a separate post for those that may be interested. Thanx...
You need to stop lifting with your back and start lifting with your legs in a correct squat technique
Backs are not for lifting, lifting with your legs will leave you with muscular pain but it's unlikely to have any lasting damage.
My loader bucker saves my back. A good little compact 4x4 tractor and a wood trailer is a back saver for me...and a 555 lighter saw! Although the old 242 is seeing more and more time....back driven logic.
Quote from: weimedog on May 10, 2016, 05:35:37 AM
My loader bucker saves my back. A good little compact 4x4 tractor and a wood trailer is a back saver for me...and a 555 lighter saw! Although the old 242 is seeing more and more time....back driven logic.
Yep, I could see myself with a front end loader running around the state forrest, lol, would be fun. The best I got at the moment is a 4x4 with a trailer hitched. I do have a 78 ford effy with a hydraulic tilt tray but still got a few things to go on it for a roadworthy. Maybe I could rig up a front end bucket for that, It'll be kind a like a plow.
Where I live are some bush tracks and very rarely can anyone drive off them. The scrub is so thick, that going off track is quite often not an option. Getting to fallen trees is best done after we,ve had high winds and heavy rains, and then every tom dick and harry is out looking for firewood. We're not allowed to cut trees down, hefty fines and loss of chainsaw and equipment, but twice a year we're allowed to burn off and gather wood that has fallen on the forrest floor, it reduces fuel in case of wildfire. Trying to pick up logs can sometimes be a bit tricky as your either on the upside of a track, or on the downside of the track, either way you more often than not have an incline to circumnavent. The best I think one can do is have a winch at the ready and drag that sorry little log as close as possible to the track, and slice her up.
You could always pick up a wench bumper for your truck, a wench, a good long rope and log tongs to pull the logs to your vehicle. My Dad who has 2 collapsed disks and 1 herniated disk in his back will use his jeep to wench logs from the woods, so he doesn't have to carry them out by hand. I believe they also make log dollies, they look like a off road hand truck with big tires.
How about using a capstan or gas powered winch . You could build a tripod for truck loading , and use the winch to drag the would .
Ideas: make smaller pieces, use log tongs so you don't have to bend over so far to pick them up. For me anything over 50 pounds is bad for my back when having to bend over and pick up repetitively, and yes I am lifting with my legs.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 07:47:14 AM
You could always pick up a wench bumper for your truck, a wench, a good long rope and log tongs to pull the logs to your vehicle. My Dad who has 2 collapsed disks and 1 herniated disk in his back will use his jeep to wench logs from the woods, so he doesn't have to carry them out by hand. I believe they also make log dollies, they look like a off road hand truck with big tires.
Yep, the winch has definitely been on my mind for a while, so too has a small crane on the A frame of the trailer, for those heavier logs, especially when there still a bit green.
Don't know about log dollies, unless there to facilitate winching up hill, I've thought about something like this too, but the amount of gear that starts to add up is starting to run away, where does the firewood fit?.
Quote from: motohed on May 10, 2016, 08:20:12 AM
How about using a capstan or gas powered winch . You could build a tripod for truck loading , and use the winch to drag the would .
Yeh, winches are plentifull here and will be seriously thinking about one for the f100 when I finally get her on the road. Would ideally also like a small hydraulic crane mounted on the back, but these a a little harder to find, at any price let alone a good price. Big truck ones are a dime a dozen though,.
Quote from: Hilltop366 on May 10, 2016, 08:44:00 AM
Ideas: make smaller pieces, use log tongs so you don't have to bend over so far to pick them up. For me anything over 50 pounds is bad for my back when having to bend over and pick up repetitively, and yes I am lifting with my legs.
I'd like to see a picture of those log tongs you have in mind, though I'm not to certain if some of those logs can be picked up with one hand. Green wood is heavy and some of us don't have the luxury of allowing them dry, they'll grow legs and walk off quick smart. Yeh some of those logs would have to weigh 50 pounds plus, even when cut to one foot biscuits for later spliting, I think you get the picture. I do like the idea of some sort of dog spike and handle though that can hold the log/biscuits under its own weight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3MB0-A2FEI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3MB0-A2FEI)
I always carried a cable and drug the logs to an easy access point, no way am I going to cut firewood up out in the bush and carry it out, though I do see it being done.
I will carry the saw to it to limb and stump it, but the log comes to the road in one piece.
I think they also make a wench plate to fit into a 2" box hitch, if you have a strong enough hitch. It would be a bad deal to rip your hitch off your truck. Harbor freight has a few large capacity wenches for less then other guys but quality may be iffy.
a "bunching hook" or hand tongs, keeps you from bending over so much, also a good hookaroon can be a back saver as well. There are many strategies that you can employ to save the back. When I am loading large rounds, I use a shorter big one as an aid, placed just in front of the tailgate, with a flat side up( other flat sie on the ground), then will "lever a large one onto that, then onto the tailgate of the truck from there. This makes it so that you never have to completely pick up the whole piece yourself. you are just moving pieces around by "tipping" them or upending them, vs ever having to have a whole piece off the ground at once.
I have a small winch mounted in a 2" receiver hitch plate. I also have one of the Harbor Freight 2" hitch mounts that has a extra 2" hitch mount on the top of it and a ball mount on the lower section. This works great by being able to have the trailer hooked up and winch logs onto it. My only problem at this time is when the cable gets too forward to one side of the winch spool and it gets caught inside. Just a cheap winch and bad design. It does have the fairlead in front of the winch.
Tractor supply has all the different types of log tongs chain pull, handle lift and the cable with hook type. I can't say for sure of the quality or longevity of them but they have many types.
I was thinking , more of the one that fits a chainsaw , you can see them online from bailey's .
Do a search for the DanG-Deadheader Log Lifter (or just Deadheader Log Lifter) for a great way to load a log onto the back of a truck or trailer. This does require a winch, but it's a great way to load long logs onto a trailer. You can cut them down to length after you get them home.
As for log tongs, I didn't have much luck with the type that Hilltop linked to (though others have found them very useful). I've ended up using tongs like these:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Firewood_tongs.jpg)
These are 8" tongs, but I've found they easily pick up 10" diameter logs, and I can get most logs up to 12" with a little bit of care in getting them set on the long. They been a huge back-saver for me: it's so much quicker and easier when you don't have to bend down, and They are also handy to pick up one end of a longer log that you want to drag out of the woods (though not nearly as handy as a small capstan rope winch, or better yet a tractor with a logging winch - but those are a lot more expensive). They also make a larger size tongs (12"?). I have used one, but don't own one. When the logs get big enough to require that, I tend to just use my tractor to lift them.
Harbor freight has a 1/2 ton pickup mount crain on sale now for $144, all manual mind you. That will pick up most any wood chunk you can get to your truck. A receiver or bumper mounted electric winch will get it to your truck and is probably they way I would go if i was in your situation.
Quote from: Hilltop366 on May 10, 2016, 11:59:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3MB0-A2FEI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3MB0-A2FEI)
Hey, they look like little rippers, I could probably use a couple of those to keep balance, thanx for showing me this.
Quote from: starmac on May 10, 2016, 12:49:12 PM
I always carried a cable and drug the logs to an easy access point, no way am I going to cut firewood up out in the bush and carry it out, though I do see it being done.
I will carry the saw to it to limb and stump it, but the log comes to the road in one piece.
:D :D :D Yes it is hard yaka, especially if your've got to walk back up hill and the undergrowth is a little thick and uneven footings and the like, snakes are always a worry as well. Dragging the log is an option where there's room for it, which is rearly the case on a narrow track.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 01:01:54 PM
I think they also make a wench plate to fit into a 2" box hitch, if you have a strong enough hitch. It would be a bad deal to rip your hitch off your truck. Harbor freight has a few large capacity wenches for less then other guys but quality may be iffy.
Yes I've seen those winch hitches. There not a bad idea if you don't want to lug a winch with you all the time.
Quote from: mad murdock on May 10, 2016, 01:19:31 PM
a "bunching hook" or hand tongs, keeps you from bending over so much, also a good hookaroon can be a back saver as well. There are many strategies that you can employ to save the back. When I am loading large rounds, I use a shorter big one as an aid, placed just in front of the tailgate, with a flat side up( other flat sie on the ground), then will "lever a large one onto that, then onto the tailgate of the truck from there. This makes it so that you never have to completely pick up the whole piece yourself. you are just moving pieces around by "tipping" them or upending them, vs ever having to have a whole piece off the ground at once.
Yep, I like the idea of the hook thing, haven't seen anything like it around, I'll have to make some. They look so simple. The stairway to heaven is a good idea also. Thanx.
Quote from: Savannahdan on May 10, 2016, 01:35:24 PM
I have a small winch mounted in a 2" receiver hitch plate. I also have one of the Harbor Freight 2" hitch mounts that has a extra 2" hitch mount on the top of it and a ball mount on the lower section. This works great by being able to have the trailer hooked up and winch logs onto it. My only problem at this time is when the cable gets too forward to one side of the winch spool and it gets caught inside. Just a cheap winch and bad design. It does have the fairlead in front of the winch.
Sounds like another good idea having both winch and trailer hitched up. Also sounds like the rope is being wound to one side of the drum. Any chances of making the winch swivel through the use of a king pin?.
Quote from: John Mc on May 10, 2016, 05:16:45 PM
Do a search for the DanG-Deadheader Log Lifter (or just Deadheader Log Lifter) for a great way to load a log onto the back of a truck or trailer. This does require a winch, but it's a great way to load long logs onto a trailer. You can cut them down to length after you get them home.
As for log tongs, I didn't have much luck with the type that Hilltop linked to (though others have found them very useful). I've ended up using tongs like these:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Firewood_tongs.jpg)
These are 8" tongs, but I've found they easily pick up 10" diameter logs, and I can get most logs up to 12" with a little bit of care in getting them set on the long. They been a huge back-saver for me: it's so much quicker and easier when you don't have to bend down, and They are also handy to pick up one end of a longer log that you want to drag out of the woods (though not nearly as handy as a small capstan rope winch, or better yet a tractor with a logging winch - but those are a lot more expensive). They also make a larger size tongs (12"?). I have used one, but don't own one. When the logs get big enough to require that, I tend to just use my tractor to lift them.
I'll definitely have to do an internet search for it. I really haven't seen any of this stuff around here, maybe there just isn't enough of a call for it.
Those tongs look very similar in design to railway wheel lifters, whereby they clamp under there own weight. Was looking at doing something very similar using a couple of old chainsaw spikes that attached to a frame I was going to knock up. But above everything else, I like the simplicity of that rope and meat hook thing, so simple, and so simple to use, and very light weight.
>:(
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 05:57:58 PM
Harbor freight has a 1/2 ton pickup mount crain on sale now for $144, all manual mind you. That will pick up most any wood chunk you can get to your truck. A receiver or bumper mounted electric winch will get it to your truck and is probably they way I would go if i was in your situation.
Yeh, there about 300-400 around here. Chinese units to boot. We seem to get stung on everything around here. They'd be ok mounted onto the A frame of a trailer but a little too tall for the back end of a truck. Some come with hand crank winch mounted on the top but you either have to be seven foot tall to use them (if mounted on the back of a truck), or go back in time to the 70's. Now that'll be a sight for sore eyes, :o .
A better option would have been to mount a small electric winch to the tops of them.
Would definately have to seriously think of fitting a winch to the truck.
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 10, 2016, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: John Mc on May 10, 2016, 05:16:45 PM
Do a search for the DanG-Deadheader Log Lifter (or just Deadheader Log Lifter) for a great way to load a log onto the back of a truck or trailer. This does require a winch, but it's a great way to load long logs onto a trailer. You can cut them down to length after you get them home.
I'll definitely have to do an internet search for it. I really haven't seen any of this stuff around here, maybe there just isn't enough of a call for it.
Do the Deadheader Log Lifter search here on the Forestry Forum.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 02:07:39 PM
Tractor supply has all the different types of log tongs chain pull, handle lift and the cable with hook type. I can't say for sure of the quality or longevity of them but they have many types.
I haven't really seen any of this stuff around here, mind you I haven't really been looking for it either, but aint seen anyone using them either. Maybe I need to look harder.
I've come from a steel fabrication industry (namely the railways), so knocking something up is always an option for me, if I can't find it.
I would still look at the lewis wench at baileysonline , 4000lbs pull capacity run off a chainsaw , if you use a skidding cone you can work , the log back to the truck from any where .
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 10, 2016, 08:23:28 PM
Those tongs look very similar in design to railway wheel lifters, whereby they clamp under there own weight. Was looking at doing something very similar using a couple of old chainsaw spikes that attached to a frame I was going to knock up. But above everything else, I like the simplicity of that rope and meat hook thing, so simple, and so simple to use, and very light weight.
Both Stihl and Husqvarna sell similar hand tongs. I've used the 8" tongs for lifting heavy loads. It really helps to have two to balance you out. I've often wished I had a harness or sling to go over my shoulders to take the weight and just use my hands to maneuver the blocks while I carry them. The "rope and meat hook" idea with a shoulder harness might be even better. I could see carrying two 60 pounders with a rig like that. I've never used a back brace, because once you brace one area, it seems like the risk would just move to hips, knees, ankles or feet.
I wear a belt like a weight lifter , I have had three disc's fused in my back and the Doc says , my spine is degenerating , I will stay in the woods as long as I can . I take more precaustions now more than most . The woods and excavation have been my life since I can remember , there's nothing like sunrize and sunset to a good day in the outdoors .
Quote from: John Mc on May 10, 2016, 08:53:59 PM
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 10, 2016, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: John Mc on May 10, 2016, 05:16:45 PM
Do a search for the DanG-Deadheader Log Lifter (or just Deadheader Log Lifter) for a great way to load a log onto the back of a truck or trailer. This does require a winch, but it's a great way to load long logs onto a trailer. You can cut them down to length after you get them home.
I'll definitely have to do an internet search for it. I really haven't seen any of this stuff around here, maybe there just isn't enough of a call for it.
Do the Deadheader Log Lifter search here on the Forestry Forum.
Yeh just did. Kind of reminds me of the skip bin lifters we have around here, thought of this concept too; though the skip bin lifters I've seen work on hydraulics.
Quote from: motohed on May 10, 2016, 09:00:47 PM
I would still look at the lewis wench at baileysonline , 4000lbs pull capacity run off a chainsaw , if you use a skidding cone you can work , the log back to the truck from any where .
I was thinking of a skidding sleigh but I suppose a cone would work just as well if not better if the log decides to roll over. Yeh, we don't have baileysonline here but know what your talking about. Chinese winches are so cheap at the moment (not as cheap as in the States), that you can just about have one on each corner of the truck.
Quote from: Cedar Eater on May 10, 2016, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 10, 2016, 08:23:28 PM
Those tongs look very similar in design to railway wheel lifters, whereby they clamp under there own weight. Was looking at doing something very similar using a couple of old chainsaw spikes that attached to a frame I was going to knock up. But above everything else, I like the simplicity of that rope and meat hook thing, so simple, and so simple to use, and very light weight.
Both Stihl and Husqvarna sell similar hand tongs. I've used the 8" tongs for lifting heavy loads. It really helps to have two to balance you out. I've often wished I had a harness or sling to go over my shoulders to take the weight and just use my hands to maneuver the blocks while I carry them. The "rope and meat hook" idea with a shoulder harness might be even better. I could see carrying two 60 pounders with a rig like that. I've never used a back brace, because once you brace one area, it seems like the risk would just move to hips, knees, ankles or feet.
I'll have to go down the hill and check out the stihl shop, no point in re-inventing the wheel if there reasonably priced, (knowing my luck they'll probably be the same price as a small chainsaw ::) ). Yeh definitely need two to balance out too. I'm having images of a human bullock carting these huge logs around the forest, :D :D :D We may as well step back in time and use the real thing. :D :D :D.
On another note, been looking at back braces and WorkCover findings have found them pretty useless at preventing back injuries. What they do however is limit your mobility if your already injured, which helps. We'll get older is just a real pain in the Caracas in my view, I think what most of us would give to be 20 again.
Try pulp hooks available at your stihl dealer. They make picking up wood a whole lot easier
Quote from: DonT on May 10, 2016, 10:40:48 PM
Try pulp hooks available at your stihl dealer. They make picking up wood a whole lot easier
Did a search but can't find them here. Plenty on your side of town though.
On a different note, I did find one of those log lifters, the ones that raise the log off the ground that makes for easier cutting. Didn't ask how much as I had other chores and was only after a bit of two stroke oil.
Ada - Some of those log lifters are complete junk. I was given one from northern tool
Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company years ago, and the tip at the end of the hook broke off after about a dozen uses -- and all I was doing was rolling a couple of 10" hemlock logs.
Forum sponsor LogRite makes some of the best such tools I've ever used. Look under "Peavey" or "Cant Hook" on their web site. They sell an attachment that will clamp to either of these tools so it acts as a Log Lifter. I'm not sure if they are available in your area, but of they are, and if you need to roll logs (or lift them for cutting), they are a great way to go.
You can see the lewis winch at bailesonline.com
I just looked up where you were , Check ebay , search lewis chainsaw winch . You can see them there on the United States ebay
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 01:01:54 PM
I think they also make a wench plate to fit into a 2" box hitch, if you have a strong enough hitch. It would be a bad deal to rip your hitch off your truck. Harbor freight has a few large capacity wenches for less then other guys but quality may be iffy.
I have a HF 12000 lb winch mounted on the tongue of my trailer. Have used the heck out of it. If you do go an electric winch remember they are slow and if you hook to something big they may scoot your truck rather than pull the load. Spring for the wireless remote control. Saves many steps. I have been stuck before and ran out winch cable from the trailer tongue to a tree and set in the cab steering while pulling myself out backwards.
Here's another winch option: gas-powered portable forestry winch (https://forestwinches.com/collections/frontpage/products/portable-winch-pcw-5000).
Some advantages:
- pull distance is limited only by the rope length (they sell winch rope in lengths of 50 to 200 meters - personally, I find the longer end of that range to be impractical).
- Higher speed than most electric winches: runs 40 FPM with the standard capstan, optional capstan gives you 60 FPM but at reduced pulling power (12 VDC electrics are typically around 15 FPM, and run slower under heaviy loads.)
- continuous duty - no need to stop and let the winch cool down (many of the less expensive electric winches are rated as low as 5% duty cycle at full load: run 45 seconds at full load, wait 14 minutes. Though you can run significantly longer at reduced loads)
- No need to be near a vehicle to operate it
Down sides:
- Another engine to maintain
- One more thing to lug around in the woods
Quote from: John Mc on May 11, 2016, 06:19:59 AM
Ada - Some of those log lifters are complete junk. I was given one from northern tool Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position) years ago, and the tip at the end of the hook broke off after about a dozen uses -- and all I was doing was rolling a couple of 10" hemlock logs.
Forum sponsor LogRite makes some of the best such tools I've ever used. Look under "Peavey" or "Cant Hook" on their web site. They sell an attachment that will clamp to either of these tools so it acts as a Log Lifter. I'm not sure if they are available in your area, but of they are, and if you need to roll logs (or lift them for cutting), they are a great way to go.
Hi John Mc.
Thanx for letting us know about the weak points. I haven't seen these things here but don't see why they cant be made up using good quality spring steel. Most of the stuff you guys have state side is possibly for local markets, manufactured by little guys supplying local markets, hoping to grow bigger at times. I did like the peavey, it seems to save a lot of bending over.
Thanx for your input, I'm loving the ideas people come up with to address issues, blokes are pretty good at fixing things.... :)
Never tried it before, but do you think a hand truck with offroad tires would help? The way I drag big blocks of firewood is with my hookaroon (logrite makes the only one worth buying). If they are too big, I noodle them in half or quarters with my chainsaw until I can handle them. At my age, I try to make things easier on my body than to show off to the skwerls and the bees how much weight I can lift.
Quote from: motohed on May 11, 2016, 07:36:12 AM
You can see the lewis winch at bailesonline.com
Hi motohed
Yes I saw them a while back on some previous posts. I think by memory some blokes were looking for power heads to roll logs onto trailers if I remember correctly. There not bad little units by the looks of them, I like it when things do double duty.
Quote from: motohed on May 11, 2016, 08:15:25 AM
I just looked up where you were , Check ebay , search lewis chainsaw winch . You can see them there on the United States ebay
Yes I'm just trying to hug and shake a tree, getting ready to catch it if it ever falls. She'd make one hell of a nice dinning table, and bar and anything else one can think of. I know I can get them online in the states, but then there's international postage rates, and spare parts + support can become issues too. Best to deal with local agents if there were ever to be one.
Quote from: luvmexfood on May 11, 2016, 10:37:20 AM
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 01:01:54 PM
I think they also make a wench plate to fit into a 2" box hitch, if you have a strong enough hitch. It would be a bad deal to rip your hitch off your truck. Harbor freight has a few large capacity wenches for less then other guys but quality may be iffy.
I have a HF 12000 lb winch mounted on the tongue of my trailer. Have used the heck out of it. If you do go an electric winch remember they are slow and if you hook to something big they may scoot your truck rather than pull the load. Spring for the wireless remote control. Saves many steps. I have been stuck before and ran out winch cable from the trailer tongue to a tree and set in the cab steering while pulling myself out backwards.
That's where tirfor's come in on there own sometimes. another option is to anchor the truck to the base of a tree first, just make sure you don't end up with two half trucks when your done.
Quote from: John Mc on May 11, 2016, 11:10:28 AM
Here's another winch option: gas-powered portable forestry winch (https://forestwinches.com/collections/frontpage/products/portable-winch-pcw-5000).
Some advantages:
- pull distance is limited only by the rope length (they sell winch rope in lengths of 50 to 200 meters - personally, I find the longer end of that range to be impractical).
- Higher speed than most electric winches: runs 40 FPM with the standard capstan, optional capstan gives you 60 FPM but at reduced pulling power (12 VDC electrics are typically around 15 FPM, and run slower under heaviy loads.)
- continuous duty - no need to stop and let the winch cool down (many of the less expensive electric winches are rated as low as 5% duty cycle at full load: run 45 seconds at full load, wait 14 minutes. Though you can run significantly longer at reduced loads)
- No need to be near a vehicle to operate it
Cricky, a grand and a half for a one ton pull state side, we'd probably have to pay twice that here if it were available here. There are a lot of advantages to having a portable unit though. I wonder if anybody sells mechanical mules that can pull logs amongst other things, wouldn't be a bad idea I recon, be a bit heavy to cart around though.
Down sides:
- Another engine to maintain
- One more thing to lug around in the woods
Quote from: 4x4American on May 11, 2016, 09:18:06 PM
Never tried it before, but do you think a hand truck with offroad tires would help? The way I drag big blocks of firewood is with my hookaroon (logrite makes the only one worth buying). If they are too big, I noodle them in half or quarters with my chainsaw until I can handle them. At my age, I try to make things easier on my body than to show off to the skwerls and the bees how much weight I can lift.
Hi 4x4American
Yeh a hand truck would probably ok on flat level ground, there's no way id be dragging its back end up and down hills, but something like a two wheel tow ball thing (narrow to get around trees) and motorized might just work in some cases (2WD with mud tyres), I wouldn't want to be lugging that thing up or down hill either as what goes down must come back up :D. Doesn't necessarily have to be a tow ball, a 2 inch square adaptable hitch type arrangement would be better. Might stand half a chance at lifting/dragging some logs up/down with a half descent power plant. However, our forest floors are pretty overgrown at times and the like, so the going could get tough for it at times. It may be able to be used like a pull/winch at a distance if enough traction can be had.
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: John Mc on May 11, 2016, 11:10:28 AM
Here's another winch option: gas-powered portable forestry winch (https://forestwinches.com/collections/frontpage/products/portable-winch-pcw-5000).
Cricky, a grand and a half for a one ton pull state side, we'd probably have to pay twice that here if it were available here. There are a lot of advantages to having a portable unit though. I wonder if anybody sells mechanical mules that can pull logs amongst other things, wouldn't be a bad idea I recon, be a bit heavy to cart around though.
You can get 2 tons by using a snatch block and doubling the line back. One or two tons is plenty, especially if you use a skidding cone (or an old VW beetle hood), unless you are pulling out really large trees. The big advantage is that it's significantly faster
_______________
Another thing you might consider is a logging arch. It picks up the log (or one end of the log), and you wheel it out, rather than dragging. If the ground is fairly level, you can wheel it out by hand. If not you can pull it with a winch or an ATV. I've only had the opportunity to use one a few times, but I was able to move some pretty good sized logs by hand with one.
Logrite (forum sponsor, see logo on the left) makes some great ones. Or, lots of folks around here make their own. If you are good at scrounging for parts, and can weld, you can make one rather inexpensively.
Quote from: John Mc on May 11, 2016, 10:32:01 PM
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: John Mc on May 11, 2016, 11:10:28 AM
Here's another winch option: gas-powered portable forestry winch (https://forestwinches.com/collections/frontpage/products/portable-winch-pcw-5000).
Cricky, a grand and a half for a one ton pull state side, we'd probably have to pay twice that here if it were available here. There are a lot of advantages to having a portable unit though. I wonder if anybody sells mechanical mules that can pull logs amongst other things, wouldn't be a bad idea I recon, be a bit heavy to cart around though.
You can get 2 tons by using a snatch block and doubling the line back. One or two tons is plenty, especially if you use a skidding cone (or an old VW beetle hood), unless you are pulling out really large trees. The big advantage is that it's significantly faster
_______________
Another thing you might consider is a logging arch. It picks up the log (or one end of the log), and you wheel it out, rather than dragging. If the ground is fairly level, you can wheel it out by hand. If not you can pull it with a winch or an ATV. I've only had the opportunity to use one a few times, but I was able to move some pretty good sized logs by hand with one.
Logrite (forum sponsor, see logo on the left) makes some great ones. Or, lots of folks around here make their own. If you are good at scrounging for parts, and can weld, you can make one rather inexpensively.
Yeh, I've seen those arches on this site. Once again, requires fairly level ground and a bit of clear space.
If you did a google image search on " Yarra Valley rain forest " , you'd get a better idea at the type of terrain we have around here, tree ferns are plentiful, so too are eucalypts (widow makers), and other scrub. Most of the time trying to get deeper into the forest is near enough to impossible, let alone trying to get any contraptions in. Most around here would use a vehicle mounted winch, as its easier to run around the scrub with a bit of chain and rope. A tirfor can be handy where there is limited vehicle access, which happens in many cases.
Any chance you could use a rope and pulley? Hang the pull in a tree with a strap on the side of the road then pull with your truck.
Sounds like a tough situation. I can see why people have settled on winches. I like the gas powered capstan rope winch myself, since it's quite a bit faster than the electric winches, and you can do a longer reach in one pull. On the other hand, I don't think you can do a remote control on that one, since you have to be at the winch to tail the rope n the capstan. It sounds as though being able to control the winch remotely might be a good feature in your application. You could be out near the log, stopping and rolling or guiding it around obstacles.
As far as your back goes, almost anything is better than picking up and carrying them. Before I had the logging winch for my tractor, I used the tongs I posted earlier. I'd cut as long a log as I could drag, hook the tongs to one end, and drag it out. It was still tiring, but at least I didn't need 3 visits to the Chiropractor after each day in the woods. In good conditions, I'd have a set of tongs in each hand and drag out a couple of smaller diameter logs at once - but that required a nicer path to drag the two logs on.
I briefly played with hooking the tongs to the frame of an old backpack so I could drag the logs without using my arms. This used mostly leg muscles, so it was less tiring, but I quickly discovered that the pack I was using was a whole lot more suited for carrying than it was for pulling. I still think there might be something to this concept if someone was determined to use human muscle power, or was on a limited budget. You'd need the right harness. Maybe a choker cable would be better than tongs?
Quote from: Hilltop366 on May 12, 2016, 08:22:49 AM
Any chance you could use a rope and pulley? Hang the pull in a tree with a strap on the side of the road then pull with your truck.
Hi Hilltop366
Yeh, something like that will work from time to time, but guess what?.
I've just found out that's illegal to drag logs along the forest floor over here. Something about destroying the natural habitat or something like that. I'll be dammed, learn something new every day. :o :o :o
Looks like we're back to cutting 'n' carting that wood.
Quote from: John Mc on May 12, 2016, 08:36:07 AM
Sounds like a tough situation. I can see why people have settled on winches. I like the gas powered capstan rope winch myself, since it's quite a bit faster than the electric winches, and you can do a longer reach in one pull. On the other hand, I don't think you can do a remote control on that one, since you have to be at the winch to tail the rope n the capstan. It sounds as though being able to control the winch remotely might be a good feature in your application. You could be out near the log, stopping and rolling or guiding it around obstacles.
As far as your back goes, almost anything is better than picking up and carrying them. Before I had the logging winch for my tractor, I used the tongs I posted earlier. I'd cut as long a log as I could drag, hook the tongs to one end, and drag it out. It was still tiring, but at least I didn't need 3 visits to the Chiropractor after each day in the woods. In good conditions, I'd have a set of tongs in each hand and drag out a couple of smaller diameter logs at once - but that required a nicer path to drag the two logs on.
I briefly played with hooking the tongs to the frame of an old backpack so I could drag the logs without using my arms. This used mostly leg muscles, so it was less tiring, but I quickly discovered that the pack I was using was a whole lot more suited for carrying than it was for pulling. I still think there might be something to this concept if someone was determined to use human muscle power, or was on a limited budget. You'd need the right harness. Maybe a choker cable would be better than tongs?
Yeh, I hear ya and know what you mean, there is some merit in using your shoulder and legs to lift rather than bending over to pick up logs all day, after cutting them to reasonable size. As I mentioned in the previous post, just found out today that were not permitted to drag logs along the forest floor either as it destroys natural habitat. We're not even permitted to split on site after cutting, and we can only use chainsaws (no rotating saw blades), hand saws permitted if your game. So basically stuck to cutting on site and carrying the wood out.
There is some merit to this though as the authorities may be able to determine where the tree/branch came from, if they were to pass through, basically a deterrent for anyone wanting to cut down live trees, as they'd be able to tell if the tree was cut, or fell down by high winds.
On a lighter note, went down the hill to one of the Stihl dealers to check out what they had.... ;D
Nada, absolutely nothing in stock regarding tongs and the like, they can get them in but that requires another return trip of a couple of hours. That hookaroo thing that looks a bit like a pick is close to $300 here, and one tong is close to $90, so 2 is about $180. :-\ Don't know how that compares to prices in the states.
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 13, 2016, 09:41:42 AM
On a lighter note, went down the hill to one of the Stihl dealers to check out what they had.... ;D
Nada, absolutely nothing in stock regarding tongs and the like, they can get them in but that requires another return trip of a couple of hours. That hookaroo thing that looks a bit like a pick is close to $300 here, and one tong is close to $90, so 2 is about $180. :-\ Don't know how that compares to prices in the states.
The 8" Husqvarna log tongs are about $35 here. The 12" are $50. Other companies make the same thing (Oregon is one). Prices are similar.
http://www.arbormaster.com.au/shop/outdoor-power-equipment/husqvarna-lifting-tongs/
$76 in Oz. $30 in the US.
http://www.arbormaster.com.au/product-category/outdoor-power-equipment/forestry-tools/log-lifts-hooks-bars/
Quote from: Cedar Eater on May 13, 2016, 08:38:48 PM
http://www.arbormaster.com.au/shop/outdoor-power-equipment/husqvarna-lifting-tongs/
$76 in Oz. $30 in the US.
http://www.arbormaster.com.au/product-category/outdoor-power-equipment/forestry-tools/log-lifts-hooks-bars/
Yeh it hurts, not as bad as buying a new chainsaw hot off the press though.
"Now where'd that kidney go"?.
Quote from: Ada Shaker on May 11, 2016, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: luvmexfood on May 11, 2016, 10:37:20 AM
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 10, 2016, 01:01:54 PM
I think they also make a wench plate to fit into a 2" box hitch, if you have a strong enough hitch. It would be a bad deal to rip your hitch off your truck. Harbor freight has a few large capacity wenches for less then other guys but quality may be iffy.
I have a HF 12000 lb winch mounted on the tongue of my trailer. Have used the heck out of it. If you do go an electric winch remember they are slow and if you hook to something big they may scoot your truck rather than pull the load. Spring for the wireless remote control. Saves many steps. I have been stuck before and ran out winch cable from the trailer tongue to a tree and set in the cab steering while pulling myself out backwards.
That's where tirfor's come in on there own sometimes. another option is to anchor the truck to the base of a tree first, just make sure you don't end up with two half trucks when your done.
Pretty sure that would be a case where two halfs don't make a whole again.
You said that you cant skid them out, I'll assume thats just dragging along the ground. Can you build or purchase a set of axles for the front and rear of a log to to keep them from dragging on the ground, northern industrial tools and equipment has 1 to pull behind an atv with a front and rear axles. Hook them on and just winch them to your truck, with very little ground damage.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 15, 2016, 05:13:30 PM
You said that you cant skid them out, I'll assume thats just dragging along the ground. Can you build or purchase a set of axles for the front and rear of a log to to keep them from dragging on the ground...
AKA a logging arch
Yes but with an axle in the rear aswell effectively turning it into a 4 wheel trailer, but with taller tires. Most of the skidding arches, that I have seen have small tires.
Quote from: John Mc on May 15, 2016, 06:00:34 PM
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 15, 2016, 05:13:30 PM
You said that you cant skid them out, I'll assume thats just dragging along the ground. Can you build or purchase a set of axles for the front and rear of a log to to keep them from dragging on the ground...
AKA a logging arch
I may as well winch a light weight four wheeled burrow/cart that I can throw on top of the trailer, that sort of thinking I think would work well because quite often the tree is a fair distance away. (Might be a runaway going down hill though)
Anyway, I've now acquired an axe head which I'll cut and covert into one of those hookaroo's (I think that's what they've called it). A mate of mine has a forge so well heat it up and bend it on the anvil to shape. Sounds all too easy and looking forward to giving it a go. I really appreciate all the ideas that have come in so far from everyone.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 15, 2016, 09:42:57 PM
Yes but with an axle in the rear aswell effectively turning it into a 4 wheel trailer, but with taller tires. Most of the skidding arches, that I have seen have small tires.
I like the idea of turning a log into a trailer but just a tad bit illegal on the road around here with that one. I don't know about the states though?. We'd have to effectively register and roadworthy the log before putting it on the road. ::) I can only imagine the road authorities faces if someone did try to register one. :D
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356854_200356854?MobileOptOut=1 I'm not saying drive it down the road, but you could its just not made heavy duty enough for large logs, just use it to winch it up to your truck. If you did build one yourself you could make it as heavy duty as you want or would want.
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on May 16, 2016, 06:39:50 AM
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356854_200356854?MobileOptOut=1 I'm not saying drive it down the road, but you could its just not made heavy duty enough for large logs, just use it to winch it up to your truck. If you did build one yourself you could make it as heavy duty as you want or would want.
I see what you mean Delawhere.Joe.
I was only kidding about turning the log into a trailer, as one would likely crab down the road with one. These thins are great on flat ground, on a farm and the like. Unfortunately I have to keep things lite and simple when collecting firewood, otherwise I wouldn't have enough room in the trailer for the firewood. Something about as big as a builders wheel burrow and just as light to throw on top of wood/trailer would be about the limit. I think a modified builders burrow or a purpose built aluminium cart perhaps using mountain bike wheels for lightness and to lessen rolling resistance might fit the bill, I'll have to give it some serious thought though, as anything bulkier or heavier would make it unfeasible, and it needs to be stable so some consideration to centre of gravity, as well as usage in all types of terain/inclinations. But to start off with I'll use the kis method (keep it simple), and use a hookaroo and a couple of tongs, I'm hoping that would be all the gear I would need to carry, so as to cart the firewood back to the trailer, but I have my reservations.
Moving wood I leave that to my Muck Truck factory rated to haul 800 lbs (365Kilos) and the machine only weighs 285 lbs.
27 inches wide, 4 wheel drive with a 4 speed Peerless transaxle capable of climbing 40% grades fully loaded. It can pull or push a 10,000lb trailer for short distances and I have carried 18 cement bags on it once (1,700lbs). Have used it in my tree service business for over 8 years now without a bit of trouble.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160425_150105.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1463404475)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160428_103457.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1463404592)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160425_143507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1463404711)
And that looks like the winning solution for the problem.
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 16, 2016, 09:27:57 AM
Moving wood I leave that to my Muck Truck factory rated to haul 800 lbs (365Kilos) and the machine only weighs 285 lbs.
27 inches wide, 4 wheel drive with a 4 speed Peerless transaxle capable of climbing 40% grades fully loaded. It can pull or push a 10,000lb trailer for short distances and I have carried 18 cement bags on it once (1,700lbs). Have used it in my tree service business for over 8 years now without a bit of trouble.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160425_150105.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1463404475)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160428_103457.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1463404592)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20160425_143507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1463404711)
Think I might have to put my order in for Christmas. Quite chuffed at the way they've achieved 4wd on the burrow. Albeit a little heavy to try and lift onto a trailer but perhaps a set of ramps on the front of the A frame might just do it.
Just wondering how this thing turns with a load, from the video it looked like the bloke was lifting the rear end to turn it.
Thanx for this one HolmenTree.
I built and added the orange rack with stakes .As long as the load is centered in the bucket it turns really easy with little force on the handle bars.
Climbs stairs real easy too.
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 16, 2016, 05:35:05 PM
I built and added the orange rack with stakes .As long as the load is centered in the bucket it turns really easy with little force on the handle bars.
Climbs stairs real easy too.
Yeh, the bull horns look like an add on, looks like you move quite a bit of volume, perhaps more so than weight hence the bull horns are ideal.
Nice to here it turns easy and yes I do have quite a fair amount of garden steps here, which is also good to hear. Looks & sounds like something I'd be very interested in indeed. Thanx again.
Quote from: mad murdock on May 10, 2016, 01:19:31 PM
a "bunching hook" or hand tongs, keeps you from bending over so much, also a good hookaroon can be a back saver as well. There are many strategies that you can employ to save the back. When I am loading large rounds, I use a shorter big one as an aid, placed just in front of the tailgate, with a flat side up( other flat sie on the ground), then will "lever a large one onto that, then onto the tailgate of the truck from there. This makes it so that you never have to completely pick up the whole piece yourself. you are just moving pieces around by "tipping" them or upending them, vs ever having to have a whole piece off the ground at once.
Well here's a home made hookaroo I've just made out of an old axe head. Stuck it in some wood by hand as is, lifted it no worries. I'd hate to see what it does once I fit an axe handle to it, might inavertably split it. :D These old axe heads were certainly made from tough steel. Unlike much of what we get these days.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40697/1463464604191-165514028.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1463464357)
If you heated that axe head up to cut it, it may have softened the steel. Keep an eye on the hook to watch for bending. There are ways to restore the temper of the steel, if needed. If you haven't done it before, it would be good to find someone knowledgeable to help. Done wrong, you can either further soften the steel, or make it so brittle it will shatter when you hit a rock.
For moving one or two pieces at a time through rough terrain have you looked at deer or game carts? some of these will haul a few hundred pounds and fold/disassemble down to an easy to handle size.
Quote from: John Mc on May 17, 2016, 06:46:35 AM
If you heated that axe head up to cut it, it may have softened the steel. Keep an eye on the hook to watch for bending. There are ways to restore the temper of the steel, if needed. If you haven't done it before, it would be good to find someone knowledgeable to help. Done wrong, you can either further soften the steel, or make it so brittle it will shatter when you hit a rock.
Nah, I didn't really heat up the axe head all that much, I could actually handle it as I was cutting it and it didn't turn blue, other than the very tip whilst polishing but it's been ground back on the tormek. It was on old rusty axe head I got for a few bob, not realising that it was actually a really good axe head untill I starded polishing it up a little, good steel. Kicking myself for cutting up a really good axe. I didn't check to see if it was case hardened or tempered all the way through, but it was tough cutting, nice and slow did it though. The very tip of it still has an axe edge on it, *Dang thing knicked me after grinding and drew some of the red stuff. I think she bit me for causing her sooo much grief, but at least she's getting a new lease on life. I don't think she needs further tempering but I'll find out when I start using it. A friend of mine has a forge so we could heat and quench over there but would have to anneal it first. Would have to work out what type of steel was used in these axe head first, not good second guessing. I would say a good old fashioned high carbon steel but what type?. I'm loving the fact it has a nice sharp axe edge point, I'm going to have to treat it with some respect .
Quote from: gspren on May 17, 2016, 08:04:13 AM
For moving one or two pieces at a time through rough terrain have you looked at deer or game carts? some of these will haul a few hundred pounds and fold/disassemble down to an easy to handle size.
No I haven't but I'll have to look into it, thanx gspren.