I have a woodmizer LT 40 super hydrollic with 42 hp diesel engine. I cut a lot of pine logs and would like to know what type of blade you use for pine logs and what tooth set. What are pros and cons of different blades? I am currently using 10 degree bimetal blades but am having issues with resharpening. I was wondering about the 7 degree turbo? Has anyone used those for sawing pine?
I just use 10 degree blades but they have to be sharp. I have found that long after a blade isn't sharp enough to cut straight in pine it still works like in new in most hardwoods.
10° has always been my go-to blade for SYP, but recently I have accumulated a nice stash of 7° Turbo's which may gradually become my primary blade.
I've sawn quite a bit with the Turbos. I like them, but you have to push the blade. If you go too slow, you will probably get a poor cut. I've cut a couple of hundred thousand feet of white pine with the DiubleHard tens, and they also do well.
I've always used Wood-Mizer 10° Double-Hards with good performance in everything I've sawn, even hardwoods!
I know there are better choices for hardwood, but the 10's do fine with what I saw!
Turbo 7's...7/39, .045
Thanks for the responses
Started with 10s, now using 7s. 4s work but I find they get wavy sooner esp. on wide cuts in pine. Haven't tried turbo 7s yet. Sharp is everything when knotty.
All mine are 1-1/4", 0.045, double hard.
I have used 10's for years.Then i started sharpening them back to 8's which seemed to help in knotty pine.A while back i went to 4"s to see if they would help in the knotty stuff .I can"t push as hard but they do seem to perform better in the knotty logs.I run 55"s at 30 but i have more than enough power so it"s not a problem running that much set.As others have said ,keep them sharp.
.055 7 degree regular is my all around blade. I buy them set for pine, not sure of set but prob .030 or so. I use and sharpen 2, 3 times then use only for hardwood. I only set when they just won't cut straight when sharp. They will cut hardwood out of the box but leave a lot of sawdust on the boards.
I cut almost entirely eastern white pine. I started with 10* 0.042 WM blades, but rarely got more than two hours from a blade. For my next box, I changed to 7* 0.042 blades. They last at least twice a long. I recently obtained a variety pack of 0.045 thick blades in a private sale. Some 4, 7, 7 Turbo, 9, and 10 degree blades. I look forward to trying them all out. I tried the 7 Turbo's yesterday, in fact. Unfortunately, the cuts were very wavey. I don't know if it was the blades or something else. I put on one of my new regular 7* blades and it cut well all day. I'm sending the 7 Turbos along with some other blades to be checked and resharpened. I will await the results from the retest, but I don't know if the will be better. I only made one pass with each of the three 7* turbo blades and there are fibers caught on most of the teeth. I suspect the taller tooth of the 7* turbo may not be good for cutting EWP.
Quote from: AnthonyW on July 18, 2016, 01:22:09 PM
I cut almost entirely eastern white pine. I started with 10* 0.042 WM blades, but rarely got more than two hours from a blade. For my next box, I changed to 7* 0.042 blades. They last at least twice a long. I recently obtained a variety pack of 0.045 thick blades in a private sale. Some 4, 7, 7 Turbo, 9, and 10 degree blades. I look forward to trying them all out. I tried the 7 Turbo's yesterday, in fact. Unfortunately, the cuts were very wavey. I don't know if it was the blades or something else. I put on one of my new regular 7* blades and it cut well all day. I'm sending the 7 Turbos along with some other blades to be checked and resharpened. I will await the results from the retest, but I don't know if the will be better. I only made one pass with each of the three 7* turbo blades and there are fibers caught on most of the teeth. I suspect the taller tooth of the 7* turbo may not be good for cutting EWP.
How deep is the gullet between the 10, regular 7, turbo 7 and the 4. Steve
I recently cut both poplar and various species of pine with the turbo 7's. I was really impressed with the performance compared to the 10 degree blades. The finished product had no waves, seemed to cut more easily, and of course made the customer VERY happy! That's always a good day when the customer is happy! 8)
I use 7 (regular) for soft woods and poplar, 4s for general hardwood cutting and 9 for frozen softwood. All of them are .055.
I run the Turbo 7s on Hemlock. They work great through the lager logs and keep nice and straight.
I am done using any .42 blades on EWP after I use up the new 10 degrees I have. I actually like the 4 degree blades on EWP but they are the only .45 blades I have.
Have been using 10 degree doublehard this past week for white pine and with good results. Haven't tried anything else.
The primary specie I saw is EWP (Eastern White Pine) and swear by 13deg bands, and also use 10deg bands with the set in the 24-26thousand range.
I have tried 7's and 4's but have found them too slow (most likely due to only having 13hp and a manual mill).
but how are those 13's on the knots?
I got a few 1.5" x.055" 13° bands. I thought they were great on pine, even the knotty stuff. I think I liked them better than Turbo 7s, but I didn't want to switch over to 1.5" bands.
Quote from: hamish on July 19, 2016, 08:22:17 PM
The primary specie I saw is EWP (Eastern White Pine) and swear by 13deg bands, and also use 10deg bands with the set in the 24-26thousand range.
I have tried 7's and 4's but have found them too slow (most likely due to only having 13hp and a manual mill).
This always confuses me. Less horsepower (13hp) with a 13 degree blade (more aggressive, lots of bite) cuts faster. Seems counter intuitive and I still don't understand it. With a 15hp engine, I dropped from 10 degree to 7 degree (less bite) to keep the engine from bogging and the rpm up and get a faster cut.
I have plenty of horsepower to push an aggressive blade (42hp). Maybe I could try the 13s. I'd be concerned that they would travel over knots instead of cutting through em.
Quote from: AnthonyW on July 20, 2016, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: hamish on July 19, 2016, 08:22:17 PM
The primary specie I saw is EWP (Eastern White Pine) and swear by 13deg bands, and also use 10deg bands with the set in the 24-26thousand range.
I have tried 7's and 4's but have found them too slow (most likely due to only having 13hp and a manual mill).
This always confuses me. Less horsepower (13hp) with a 13 degree blade (more aggressive, lots of bite) cuts faster. Seems counter intuitive and I still don't understand it. With a 15hp engine, I dropped from 10 degree to 7 degree (less bite) to keep the engine from bogging and the rpm up and get a faster cut.
As you have a manual mill and get to experience the manual feedback.............push it hard, you want that bog, you want the engine to drop down into its max torque range (not rpm range)find the sweet spot in the engines power curve. Too slow of a feed speed accounts for a lot of band deflection, but the 13's just kind of bite and carry on.
Quote from: hamish on July 21, 2016, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: AnthonyW on July 20, 2016, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: hamish on July 19, 2016, 08:22:17 PM
The primary specie I saw is EWP (Eastern White Pine) and swear by 13deg bands, and also use 10deg bands with the set in the 24-26thousand range.
I have tried 7's and 4's but have found them too slow (most likely due to only having 13hp and a manual mill).
This always confuses me. Less horsepower (13hp) with a 13 degree blade (more aggressive, lots of bite) cuts faster. Seems counter intuitive and I still don't understand it. With a 15hp engine, I dropped from 10 degree to 7 degree (less bite) to keep the engine from bogging and the rpm up and get a faster cut.
As you have a manual mill and get to experience the manual feedback.............push it hard, you want that bog, you want the engine to drop down into its max torque range (not rpm range)find the sweet spot in the engines power curve. Too slow of a feed speed accounts for a lot of band deflection, but the 13's just kind of bite and carry on.
I put a tach/hour meter on my engine (mostly for the hour meter, but on the mill have found the tach super useful). I get the best feed rate around 3000 rpm. Too much above or below and the blade wanders. I find it very difficult to maintain a constant fast feed rate with the 10 degree blades. They bog the engine down too easily which in turn kills the feed rate. Since I made the switch I have since learned that not only does the cutting angle change but also the gullet profile, hence the 7 degree and 7 turbo blades. I skipped from 10 to 7, without ever trying the 9 degree blades. I have some 9's now I will try. I would not buy a 13 to try, but if someone lent me one I would. It's too bad Woodmizer doesn't offer a starter pack, three blades of five types (choose five from: 4, 7, 7 turbo, 9, 10, 13). I also strongly believe blade choice/selection is based largely on personal technique. Since my technique is different than yours, 13's work for you while 7's work for me. We probably get the same (or equivalent) bdft/hr.
It's easy to start "chasing blades" and end up with nothing but confusion. Remember that two different logs of the same species can/will saw differently, so was it the log or was it the blade? Manufacturers recommendations are usually correct for different engines/sawmills. There is nothing wrong with tweaking but do no get carried away with hype.
I tallied all the responses here and one other place I asked and these are the results: 10 degree = 5, 7 degree = 5, 7 turbo = 3, 4 degree = 2, 13 degree = 1
The 10° will saw the Pine as good as anything as long as you keep a sharp blade on the mill!
I don't have good luck with 10s in white pine .
The WM 9s and 7s timber wolf 8s work great for me with 13hp honda on spruce and white pine
4s on realy knotty spruce
Bruno
My LT 40 onan 24 HD cut everything with 1.25 10 degree, but it didn't like spruce or hickory.
I don't like to saw Spruce. I have a hard time making a straight cut. I think it is because Spruce is so darn soft and knotty.
In the last week I have sawed close to 5000 Bft of EWP for my board and batten project. Using .042 10 degree WM blades. I am glad it is my own wood as I have been chasing the wave the whole time. These are fresh cut logs less than a week old that I am cutting down before milling. 12 to 26 inches granted some are of marginal quality (tops) for the purling's. I am fighting sap build up on blade and band wheel belts. Logs are clean and changing blades every 500 Bft. Cleaning the band wheel belts every couple hours as well.
The waves for the most part seem to happen when getting the cant to size. as the waves are on the edges of the boards.
I suspect the blade thickness is part of the issue I am going with .045 blades on next order. I think less blade deflection with thicker blade.
Guess I am asking a general purpose blade to do more than its designed to do.
I have never used a .042 blade.
Quote from: derhntr on July 25, 2016, 08:21:54 AM
In the last week I have sawed close to 5000 Bft of EWP for my board and batten project. Using .042 10 degree WM blades. I am glad it is my own wood as I have been chasing the wave the whole time. These are fresh cut logs less than a week old that I am cutting down before milling. 12 to 26 inches granted some are of marginal quality (tops) for the purling's. I am fighting sap build up on blade and band wheel belts. Logs are clean and changing blades every 500 Bft. Cleaning the band wheel belts every couple hours as well.
The waves for the most part seem to happen when getting the cant to size. as the waves are on the edges of the boards.
I suspect the blade thickness is part of the issue I am going with .045 blades on next order. I think less blade deflection with thicker blade.
Guess I am asking a general purpose blade to do more than its designed to do.
On the advice of many, I dialed up the tension to no less than 2500. This reduced the wave occurrence. I still have issues maintaining a sharp 10 degree blade on EWP for very long. Getting only 2-3 hours of run time from a blade, which for me is about 400-750 bdft. Interesting that you have the same issue. Personally I dropped to 7 degree blades and the blade life increased significantly.
MM.
When I got my mill in 06 the WM tech asked what I would be cutting and at the time I had 35,000 BFT of EWP to cut to red do my dads 135 year old barn. He recommended the .042 10 degree blades so have stuck with them. New sawyer at that time. I am sure if I had own sharpener and setter I could come up with a set that would make them work.
I use 10 degree blades on Ponderosa and White Pine. In both cases I no longer chase the wave :) Here are the 3 things I did which seem to have made a difference:
1. Get the drive belts tight to spec.
2. Get the blade to 3000lbs or slightly more (I was told by a WM rep to crank it down and keep it there!)
3. Increase feed rate. I had been milling around 11 o'clock on the dial (with my LT40HDG26) but learned that unless I am milling a much bigger log (something I'm biting 15" or more into) I crank the dial to midnight and leave it there! Faster passes and the band stays tight.
I tend to run about two bands a day when milling 1000 to 1600bf in a day. I know some say they get a lot more than that but I find that's about right for me.
You're really doing good with that new mill, Erik!
I have a 25hp Kohler on my mill and in W/Pine, I usually average 1,500-1,800 bf in 7 hours on the sawmill hour meter!
Quote from: Chuck White on July 25, 2016, 04:01:47 PM
You're really doing good with that new mill, Erik!
I have a 25hp Kohler on my mill and in W/Pine, I usually average 1,500-1,800 bf in 7 hours on the sawmill hour meter!
Thanks :)
You get that with or without help? I've done 1600bf without help in 8 hrs but sometimes struggle to break 1000bf....usually though that's because of bad log decks, moving logs to much etc.
I don't very often saw alone, so yes, with help!
I don't push the mill as hard as some do!
Gotcha. I don't saw alone much either except for myself but then along comes a customer who I think will be there and I saw alone.
I'm learning. On those jobs the bf rate goes from .375/bf to .60/bf and I don't worry about it since I charge by the hour -- and I'm thankful for that! lol
When we were setting blades we screwed up and set a blade at 30,000 per side and wrote tuition on it. It was by far our best blade. I then asked around a bit about blade set and was told in knotty wood to always go 30+ now I have all my blades set at 34 per side and have nearly doubled mill capacity, time between sharpening and no wavy cuts. I'm impressed at this point anyway. I don't think 20000 more set will affect much on softwood logs.We use 1 1/2 7 turbo blades.
I set my blades at .025-.030 and have had good luck with it.
I put two marks on the lens of the setter and whenever the needle lights between the 2 marks, it's good!
I also get a good surface on my sawn lumber!
Every saw is different. anything over .024 on my saw is not good.
That is very true Kbietz
And bands are very different too. I ran my first Bimetal yesterday and I am impressed.
Had an assortment of mostly white spruce, a few jack pine, a few hemlock and a few Dfir. Average 15 inch small end and 8', 10'. 12', 16' lengths. and only 2 slightly bowed one of those with pretty bad shake. The rest were some of the best logs I have seen in a while.
Was cutting for 3 x 8", 10", 12" and max out the side lumber as best as possible.
Made the first cut at 930AM and shut the mill off at 10 to 5. 3200BF. First 300 ish on the blade that was still on from previous job and then changed to the BImetal and finished this job. It has a couple of logs left in it yet.
At the end of the day he had me square up 7 old dried out logs to use for dunnage to stack the good lumber on. those made up 10, 10' 4X6s that I did not count in the days cut count.
Client is sending some pic and I will post when I get them.
I use 10* bands.
How do the 7 degree bands work with having only 15hp cutting softwood? I've only ever run 10's (WM and Cooks bands), so I have little experience.
I have 13hp and have milled with 10, 7, and 4 degree bands. Never felt like I needed more power. Let's face it - these lower powered mills aren't milling for profit so we can slow down to whatever we need. My feed rates slowed down some using the 4.
I use 7 and 4s on my mill that has a 13 hp honda no problems at all 10s don't cut good for me
This thread is really interesting. Everybody has different ideas. There is no agreement as to which blade is best. I guess that is to be expected since everyone has different mills and different milling habits.
I have a 13 hp engine on a Norwood Lumbermate 2000 and have always used 10* blades. They saw very well through white pine.
Also the Pine species are different. Even the same species can vary greatly depending upon the growth rate, age, sap/resin content, amount of stress, etc.