I think I'm off to a good start. This is one of my lifetime dreams.
I have allways wanted one but I did not want to pay $15,000-$30,000
for one. So I have been gathering parts for a few years to build one.
1400lbs of steel so far.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC04446.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1470684668)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Dsc04447.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1470684699)
looks neat. what's an iron worker do? jg
Have you got the punches and dies . I use my wood splitter as a bender . Just weld up a jig and attach to plate an use wedge for the break .
Yep I got a set punches and dies and I got a shear plate and bending dies.
what's an iron worker do?
A hydraulic ironworker can be used for punching, shearing, notching,
bending and other metal fabrication functions.
It is the most used and most versatile machine a person can have
in their manufacturing or fabrication .
Every thing but work timber. Lol they are very handy!!
Shearing?? Years ago I went to a weld shop. That was when I could go out into the shop. They sheared some ½ steel for my project. Than punched some ½ holes into. Now I know what that thing is called.
Quote from: drobertson on August 08, 2016, 07:15:22 PM
Every thing but work timber. Lol they are very handy!!
But they help build mill parts...
I have only been around one and that was at a welding course. It was amazing what that thing could do easily and I have wanted one ever since.
I'll be paying you a visit! Hope I don't wear the rear bumper completely off the Jeep getting there! :D
Quote from: jaygtree on August 08, 2016, 05:06:42 PM
looks neat. what's an iron worker do? jg
:D :D :D thanks for asking first I don't feel so lonely now :) :) :) :)
What they can do...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duOUGOYv1Q4
Handy as a hip pocket on a sunday shirt ;D I do some limited iron worker stuff using my 20 to log splitter... mostly bending...
This should be a fun topic to follow. I have seen many with tooling for a good price on craigslist lately, but can't justify one. How many tons will your unit be? :)
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 08, 2016, 08:32:42 PM
Quote from: drobertson on August 08, 2016, 07:15:22 PM
Every thing but work timber. Lol they are very handy!!
But they help build mill parts...
You bet! Stomped the pedal on few, very handy with the dies and punches
Quote from: 21incher on August 09, 2016, 07:14:38 PM
This should be a fun topic to follow. I have seen many with tooling for a good price on craigslist lately, but can't justify one. How many tons will your unit be? :)
I have no idea how to figure the tonnage on this toy.
First it has two stations. What i call the first station has a hydraulic cylinder
the pushes an arm like in the picture. This will increase the pressure quite a bit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Double_push.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1470785961)
The second station has double hydraulic cylinders. It really has three. The third one
just moves the two hydraulic cylinder closer to the work station.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Double_clibders.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1470786163)
A shop near me has a piranha. Really awesome machine for a fab shop.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on August 09, 2016, 07:54:40 PM
A shop near me has a piranha. Really awesome machine for a fab shop.
Thats what I really wanted.
But for what I do I could not justify the money that they sell for.
I used a piranha for 5 years.
I'm hoping there is someone on this forum that knows more about hydraulics
than me. I want this machine to run real slow. So I thought I could pump
the oil into a large cylinder and use that cylinder to pull a small cylinder.
Then use the oil that gets pushed out of the front of the smaller cylinder
to push the cylinder on my machine. I'm thinking this would slow down the
oil and increase the pressure. Am I right ?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/More_power.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1470823956)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/More_power_done.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1470857345)
Better (easier) to get a higher psi pump with a lower gpm rating.
Quote from: gspren on August 10, 2016, 09:33:27 AM
Better (easier) to get a higher psi pump with a lower gpm rating.
Years ago I bought a 4' X 4' box full of pumps hoses, flow controls,
hand controls, fittings and hydraulic motors. I might all ready have
what I need. I just dont know what I'm looking at when I look at
the pumps. I can tell the difference between a vane pump and a
gear pump but how can you tell if it's a higher psi pump with a lower
gpm rating by looking at it ?
On a single stage pump you can measure how many ounces in a given number of revolutions to calculate displacement or volume, pressure will need a gage. If it's a 2 stage pump with no capacity plate your on your own. On an iron worker at some time you will run the pressure up the whole way and I would want to know what that is for safety reasons. Using a smaller cylinder to boost pressure could be troublesome in that you would now have a limited volume before needing to back off and you probably wanted a larger diameter ram doing the work which needed more volume.
How about a piston pump with a closed center valve, it will pump whatever you need.
Quote from: gspren on August 10, 2016, 09:34:57 PM
On a single stage pump you can measure how many ounces in a given number of revolutions to calculate displacement or volume, pressure will need a gage. If it's a 2 stage pump with no capacity plate your on your own. On an iron worker at some time you will run the pressure up the whole way and I would want to know what that is for safety reasons. Using a smaller cylinder to boost pressure could be troublesome in that you would now have a limited volume before needing to back off and you probably wanted a larger diameter ram doing the work which needed more volume.
I haven't completely thought it through, but with your multi-ram design, I think you are in for trouble. Say you are pumping 3,000 psi in the big ram. Figure the area of the cylinder and you get X tons of force. Now push on the small ram with X tons, convert that back to psi from the cylinder area and you will see an increase in the psi - potentially more than the seals can take. IF you put in relief valves, then there will be no mechanical advantage to your setup. You will see the same speed (assuming the two small rams are the same diameter) from the large ram as the small rams.
Are you using an electric over hydraulic setup? Why not vary the speed of the electric motor if you need slower motion? That's assuming the pump works efficiently/effectively at any speed.
Thanks for all the input.
What about flow control valves ?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Flow_Control_Valve~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1470887238)
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 10, 2016, 11:41:07 PM
Thanks for all the input.
What about flow control valves ?
That would work but I would expect any restriction to cause a build up of heat. That might not matter with this as you probably are not doing production work.
Since the goal seems to be to get slower motion and higher force (not necessarily more pressure), the simplest method would be to use a large diameter cylinder.
If that isn't available but you have several cylinders of the same stroke and diameter, you could gang them together in parallel and connect the rod ends to a heavy-duty yoke.
Quote from: Brucer on August 11, 2016, 02:32:59 AM
Since the goal seems to be to get slower motion and higher force (not necessarily more pressure), the simplest method would be to use a large diameter cylinder.
If that isn't available but you have several cylinders of the same stroke and diameter, you could gang them together in parallel and connect the rod ends to a heavy-duty yoke.
It's already made that way...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/two_clys.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1470908301)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/one_cly.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1470908394)
My main objective is for everything to move real slow.
I know this is going to be hard because the clys are small
dia. I don't think (or I'm not sure) if you can just gear
down a pump and have it working right. I don't want
to change the clys. So what other options do I have ?
Moveing right along...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Brake_1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1470925492)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Brake_2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1470925535)
Off to the junkyard to find more parts...
I need to find a V-shaped wedge to fit the other half of the die in the picture.
Or I need to build one. Thats a lot of metal cutting.
you probably don't need a forming punch to actually match the angle of the die. you will likely be "air-bending" the material & therefore just contacting the corners of the die & the nose of the punch. possibly build a punch holder as wide as the shaft with 2 functions: top to clamp onto the shaft, bottom to bolt on a nose of round stock which could be changed as required for material thickness. general rules: die opening = 8x m.t. and punch nose radius = 1/2 m.t. (too small causes excessive cracking).
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 11, 2016, 05:50:26 AM
... I don't think (or I'm not sure) if you can just gear
down a pump and have it working right.
Yes, you can. It's service life will go up when you do :). A possible downside to using this option is that the force applied by your cylinder isn't going to increase (if that's an issue).
Without changing cylinders, the only way to increase the force is to raise the pressure, which you can do by changing or adjusting the main relief valve. However, increasing the pressure reduces the service life of the pump (it varies with the cube of the pressure :o). You're also limited by the pressure rating of the pump, and the hoses, and the cylinders.
Quote from: Brucer on August 11, 2016, 11:17:27 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 11, 2016, 05:50:26 AM
... I don't think (or I'm not sure) if you can just gear
down a pump and have it working right.
Yes, you can. It's service life will go up when you do :). A possible downside to using this option is that the force applied by your cylinder isn't going to increase (if that's an issue).
Without changing cylinders, the only way to increase the force is to raise the pressure, which you can do by changing or adjusting the main relief valve. However, increasing the pressure reduces the service life of the pump (it varies with the cube of the pressure :o). You're also limited by the pressure rating of the pump, and the hoses, and the cylinders.
Thanks... I needed that info...
sure wish i had this before I built my mill...
First try with 100lbs of air pressure.
Worked great...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/First_try_1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1471121824)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/First_try_2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1471121879)