I'm currently using a John Deere 990 with a Farmi 351 to haul out wood and it works fine however i am considering upgrading to a commercial John Deere 110 which is a loader/backhoe with a PTO and 3 point hitch. My current 990 is a straight up gear tractor, no frills. The 110 is a hydrostatic transmission. While I'm sure the hydro is more convenient, I'm curious how they hold up. I like the simplicity of a gear transmission, mostly because I understand them and know I could fix it if needed.
For those with hydrostatic experience, I'd love to hear your opinions. It doesn't have to be limited to logging since this will be used with the sawmill, small scale farming, house lot prep, and other work too.
I could tolerate a hydro,as long as both brake pedals are on the right hand side. And the pedal to make it go was not on the same side.I use the brake pedals to get that front end where I want it sometimes. When I have too much wood behind me,that front end gets a little light. The individual brakes really help out.
Wife has a hydro. Has held up just fine. I would not think twice about a hydro. If the brakes was on the right hand side. ;D
hydro is VERY convenient......but for the long term my confidence is with a gear transmission
Hydrostatic , higher RPM = more fuel
Hydrostatic , tends to "creep" if the peddle is not in dead center = have to use the parking brake
my Mahindra Max22 HSD speed is slow at 1,500 RPM, have to keep it at about 2,000 RPM to travel a long distance in a reasonable time
my Mahindra 5520 shuttle shift is much faster and i only have to use 1,000 RPM
true one is 22 HP the other is 55 HP.
so i would choose Hydrostatic for simple machines, and gear shift for work
What is your terrain like?
I work on slopes 100% of the time and find the hydro much easier to keep from rolling. If for some reason I need to shift to a lower range I just put my foot on the brake and shift. With a clutch it was never that easy. It is true the revs need to be higher to accomplish anything.
My terrain is a mix of hills and valleys, with some step slopes.
The JD does have split brake pedals but they are both on the left which seemed to make sense.
Do"automatic" skidders use the same hydrostatic technology?
I don't know much about tractors for logging, but as far as skidders go, I like the manual shift by far. I have operated both and I like the manual better. I think they are also able to go more places. With the manual, if there is a log or something big to climb over, just rev it up a bit and engage the clutch and it just hops right over. With the auto/hydrostatic, the tires will just spin and make a mess and the skidder wont make it. Then try the same thing with a manual, and it just goes. Manual is also MUCH more affordable to rebuild, and it will show signs of wear so you know a rebuild is coming. With a auto/hydrostatic one day it works good, the next day it's done for with little to know warning.
Quote from: mjeselskis on September 28, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Do"automatic" skidders use the same hydrostatic technology?
Depends on the make and model. But yes, they can use a similar type transmission.
A true hydrostatic system runs with a pump and motor. An automatic transmission uses oil to shift and provide a fluid coupling to manual shafting and gears. I always liked the direct drive system (manual) until we got a 1010D John Deere forwarder. That thing can crawl straight up and not near as fatiguing as a manual after all day. Yes the rpm's are up and it will burn more fuel but the ease of use is way better. If you get wheel spin all you have to do slack off and away you go! I can't speak for the brake system on the tractor but on forestry equipment as soon as you let the throttle go the brakes apply immediately. I would not shy away from a hydrostatic drive system but they can get pricey to repair.
I have had both now in forestry skidders. My current skidder which is a 240B Timberjack with a 3 speed Clark auto tranny and it is the Cats meow imo. My left knee and clutch leg are in great shape at the end of the day not having to clutch all the time. Works great bunking logs also. I have also driven but never owned a hydro static tractor but it is a different beast than the skidder tranny. I can honestly say if it were me I would go with a manual in the tractor as I believe it takes less power to operate in the moving fwd and back positions. Yes you need to clutch but maybe a manual shuttle would fit to. Many options out there at this point. I have four farm tractors and they are all manuals, one John Deere has 7k hrs on it and has seen a hard life and is on the original clutch, Its' not a loader tractor but pulls haywagons and harrows and is a worker. Of course the hydros could be pricey to fix but maybe they are really tough and dependable now. Talk to the service manager and see what he thinks. Good luck.
I have a Kubota L4740. I never overload it so it never has to sit trying to pull but not moving. Keep in in lower gear/mode so it has more easy pulling power. I have 2900 hours on mine and no problems. About half is blowing snow the other half is landscaping, making woods roads, skidding logs and trailering logs. I heard of some people having trouble around 3000 hour while others go to 6000 and more hours. Here is video of my logging operations using my Kubota. I also have another video on youtube regarding this as well. Hydro stats are a little more expensive to maintain. On another tractor forum it is a general agreement that they run for about $20/hour including, fuel, maintenance, repairs, tires, etc... Hope this helps and feel free to watch my videos. If you have a dealer do the full maintenance (hydro oil, filters, axles gear oil, motor oil etc) it cost about $900 here in Canada.
https://youtu.be/JrdLwW8GYiQ (https://youtu.be/JrdLwW8GYiQ)
The hydro is fine, but I have to wonder how long JD will support the 110's parts as they discontinued the 110 a while ago. ........(long term thinking)
The 110 was a nice machine, but had a relatively short run so not so "run of the mill" parts (like the hydro's) might get either very expensive or rare, eventually.
Thanks again for the input. I drove down to Mass last week and checked out a 110 and tried it out. While a nice machine for landscaping and earth work, I don't think it would fit what I need for woods work due to the low clearance, same r4 tires as my 990, and lots of delicate parts underneath. And if that wasn't enough, I found too many reviews of people with broken bellhousings with a 10-20k repair bill.
I'm now researching and looking for a 50-60hp 4wd tractor with larger R1 tires, most likely JD or Kubota with a shuttle shift for convenience but a little less worry than hydrostatic.
PA / OH is the place to look for decent low hour tractors that aren't beat. We have all BLUE tractors and NH farm equipment / skidsteers so my opinion is very biased as far as brand choice. I would stay away from a 110 deere unless you where doing small excavation work and occasionally skidding a few trees, alot better machines out there for the money, the guy I bought my forwarder from had one and it wasn't meant for woods work.
Used 4x4 tractors are funny, if you watch you can buy a nice 50-60hp with less hours than a 30hp, just before you jump call a couple dealers or look in the boneyards and see if parts are around, we bought an odd NH model 110hp 3yrs ago and they where known for electrical issues, my father regrets saving it last yr when it went up in the hayfield.
When we bought our NH tractor we looked at the hydro and it sounded awful. But come to find out that is normal. We bought the gear model, but wish we went hydro because of the loader work we do. Good luck with your search.
You're going to need some belly pan's and shielding with any make of "tractor" for woods work. There is very little factory protection "down there" to anything, and little to no aftermarket bolt on options.
When you say hauling out wood,is this on your own land?
I used a tractor in the woods,my woods, and no belly pan and no protection at all. I should not say I never had any damage from brush or limbs. BUT I take some pains with my brush and my roads. Yes,it takes time,but it's my land,so I get all the money. I cut any limbs into not much longer than 2 foot sections. Do it while the limbs are on the trees and it's not bad. Any limbs that came into the main trails is removed. Any new roads are planned out and trees are removed. Stumps are cut down low,and I do mean low. Rocks are hauled into wet areas. I cut bunches of wood here. No more than 3 straight job trucks a month. I have a OWB so I can burn my softwood limbs. All this,as I said takes time,but when I get done,my woods look good. I am very,very,fussy with my land.
And I am the type that can break anything too. :( I am not bashful to pull out the cable either.
TheCfarm,
This is my own land and try to stick to the trails and keep them brush free. I like to keep things neat so I usually do keep the brush cut short so it rots faster.
Even with that, I think I would have hard a hard time with the 110 due to the low clearance and incredible amount of expensive things to snag underneath.
I am trying to figure out what model I like best right now, looking at 5510, 5320, 5325, 5055 JD and some kubotas. I can't over how fast the kubotas fade though and I like to keep things looking new. The 50-60hp are more reasonable than expected and have nice large ag tires and great ground clearance.
Once I nail down a model, I'll probably try to find one online and ship it since the prices seem to be much better in the Midwest. It worked out well with my 990.
We had a Kubota for 4-5 years,I don't remember the paint fading on it. But we always kept it in the garage,and parked it in the shade when it was outside. We put some hours on that thing. Just did not like waiting a week for a part for it. :o >:(
I love my Mahindra 5520 4x4 shuttle shift and Farmi winch on the 3 point. makes a great counter weight for the front pallet forks. i added 2 extra forks to make a four tine tractor pitch fork. :) :)
I am going to try using the plastic bed liners from pickups as a cheap skid plate for the tractors.
While I did just pick up an old skidder to replace my tractor in the woods, I would through in a vote on the Deere 5055e. I have one, bought it a few years ago and have had so far, really good luck with it. Pulls really well and has held up pretty good too. I have to admit though that I have sustained some damage underneath, which is a bummer for sure. So I second the comments on adding belly pans and falling object protection.
The 50xxE series Deere's are quite a bit of horsepower for the money, in my opinion. I got the 5055 as it was the smallest one with the power reverser tranny; which I love.
Thanks for the input on the 5055. I looked at one last week that had been used hard with 700 hours and had no major problems so that was a good sign. It did have a couple welds that cracked on the loader, but I'm guessing it was more from being overworked rather than a design problem.
Definitely looking for one with the power reverser.
looked at a video explaining the power reverser tranny.
yea my Mahindra has one. it is where the turn signal lever be on a car
I don't remember if it was the 5055, but I borrowed a Deere of similar size for some bush hogging and firewood loading. Used it every day for maybe two weeks, though not continuously.
The reverser stalk feels almost exactly like the turn signal in my car, and at one point while roading, I almost put it into reverse before turning left.
Also, the foot throttle is extremely sensitive, and when combined with the suspension seat it's easy to get surging, again while roading.
The cable-drive loader controls felt rubbery, and the quick disconnects and valve block hang out in the open under the cab.
The tractor was a real treat for mowing.
Loading split wood was okay. Poor visibility at the bucket edge, and it took a while to get used to figuring bucket tilt based on the indicator rod.
And there was something about the foot control layout/function that didn't seem right. I think it's the lack of brake when de-clutching. So if you want more power on lifting, you either continue forward , or you take a chance on rolling backward. I think I eventually just used the hand throttle and one particular gear combination.
It seemed a little 'light' as well. Couldn't do much in 2wd.
Full cab with air and heat. De-luxe.
Anyway, try to operate whatever you like to make sure it meets your preferences.
Finally decided on a John Deere 5300. I picked it up this weekend. It has 498 hours and shows almost no wear. It's older than I planned to go, but I wasn't that impressed with most of the newer tractors I looked at so I stayed with the tried and true simplicity. With the extra clearance and bigger ag tires, it should work well in the woods. Hopefully I'll get the Farmi winch on it this weekend to try it out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/00D0D_3jU7kHgOaUs_1200x900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1479775180)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24804/IMG_20161119_121150697_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1479775245)
498 hours. ::) I put more than that on mine in a year.
Looks like a good size one,50-60 hp?
Rear tires loaded?
Build something to put the chainsaw into and bar and chain oil too.
Quote from: thecfarm on November 21, 2016, 08:01:52 PM
498 hours. ::) I put more than that on mine in a year.
Looks like a good size one,50-60 hp?
Rear tires loaded?
Build something to put the chainsaw into and bar and chain oil too.
Yeah, 56hp. Rear tires are loaded with beet juice. Looking for a canopy, forks, and definitely somewhere to hold the saw and accessories. Keeping my eyes open for backhoe, bush hog, and tiller
Just a few ideas on holders. With that size tractor you should have plenty of room to mount it on the loader support. I use to keep my saw in a box behind the seat. This is so much handier. And I can see the saw and know where it is.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/chainsawholder2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1402578961)
I keep my gas in a chain oil jug.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/gas_and_oil_holder1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1402579076)
Than the wrench. I keep one of these on each side of the tractor.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/001.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1402580752)
Quote from: mjeselskis on November 21, 2016, 07:45:31 PM
........Farmi winch on it this weekend .......
I keep my Farmi 501 winch on most of the time for a counter balance.
there is a 2 inch receiver hitch you can add to the Farmi winch.
other useful attachments:
for the Farmi = 20,000lb snatch block
extra choker chains
for the Loader = Skidsteer quick attachment
extra lights on the loader arm
for the 3-point = trailer hitch receiver
box scraper
grader blade
Rototiller
rear hydraulics
other useful items =
Oil Filter Cutter, opens filter to show what it collected
Condor Outback Machete CTK2042S, stainless steel blade, useful for quick delimbing and brush clearing
Kolpin Saw Press Bracket = I have 5, one for each ATV and tractor.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/GEDC1224.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1447783126)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/Kolpin_Saw_Press_Bracket_-_side.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1443858429)
Nice Green Tractor, 8) 8) 8)
Looks like a good find. What's the manufacture date, and is there a story behind the low hours?
Thanks for all the tips. I had a box behind the seat on my last tractor, but the loader arm mount looks like a much better option.
I need to check the serial number, but I believe it's a 94. It came from Ohio and I didn't get it straight from the original owner so I don't know the story behind the low hours.
From the extensive wear on the bucket, perhaps they used it to bring in the groceries from the car?
North River Energy, :D I noticed that too.
I bought a tractor with less than 800 hours on it,eight years old. As with mjeselskis great find,it looked brand new. He had 2 tractors,one for the woods,the one he really worked,and than the one he used around the barn. He would put bales of hay in the bucket and bring it to his animals.
I hate to say,but it does look brand new anymore. :( But I buy stuff to use,not to just sit there.
mjeselskis,that JD did not even have 500 hours on it. :o I put that on mine in one year.
Looks like a great find. How long you've been looking ?
Quote from: lopet on November 23, 2016, 05:38:23 PM
Looks like a great find. How long you've been looking ?
Thanks, I've been looking hard for a couple months. I was leaning towards a new one, but didn't want the tier 3/4 emissions stuff. I was thinking about buying one in the Midwest and having it shipped, but this one was within driving range and it was nice to check it over before buying.
The guy I bought it from put about 150 hours on it in the last year mowing hay, but the original owner must have just used it as a toy.