Hello I am getting ready to Order my saw mill blades,and I am here to ask for suggestions on what to order for blades. I am new to sawing and I have built my own mill. So I need all the help I can get picking a good blade to use. I have a few big Locust logs and Pine logs and maple logs Please help Thanks
LD60,
Not sure of the details about your mill but with mine I'd definitely want 4 degree blades for the locust especially if it is somewhat or completely seasoned. Maybe the same with the maple. I can usually get by with 10 degree blades for the pine but if there is a lot of knots I drop back to 4 degree for it too. I have some 7 degree and 7 degree turbo blades but get little use out of them. Others use them exclusively so I need to go back and give them a better test run.
Order a mix and try them all and draw your own conclusions. Don't let one log determine your choices though. Be sure the performance is based on the blade not one freak log properties. Good luck.
Larry, all the major band brands are good its just some mills work better with a particular band. I agree with less hook on bands, I like in the 4 to 6 degree range. Many manufacturers only offer 10 degree, nothing wrong with that try em. If your not going to sharpen your own best to get bands that they will sharpen, some will only sharpen what they sell. When I started I called many band vendors, explained what I was doing and ordered a couple of their bands to try, several sent me bands free to try. You will find your mill will like one brand and type of band best. Frank C.
As others said, try different bands. Over a short time you will know what works best on your mill.
LD60,
Congratulation on your build, ;) https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90460.0.html
As others have pointed out you'll find which (manufacturer) you like best and provides the service you want/need, Shop on the left of the page
You'll have to consider how much H.P. you're pulling, what your sawing, hard or soft and how wide you want saw and band wheel diameter
:P Good reading on hook angle, set and tooth pitch here.
http://www.cookssaw.com/index.php/sawmill-blade-insight
These folks have a pretty good guide as well
http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six-rules-of-sawing.html
this one too
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2513/NREM-5046web.pdf
D
Most homemade mil owners that ask the same question got the answer to use 4 deg blades.
Quote from: larrydown60 on November 06, 2016, 04:29:42 AM
Hello I am getting ready to Order my saw mill blades,and I am here to ask for suggestions on what to order for blades. I am new to sawing and I have built my own mill. So I need all the help I can get picking a good blade to use. I have a few big Locust logs and Pine logs and maple logs Please help Thanks
Over the last 2 days, I was sawing Black Locust logs to give the customer a bunch of 4X4X10's.
The 4x4's will be used to fence in a new apple orchard/back yard, against deer!
We sawed out 80 4x4's, 5 of them were 12', the rest were 10's.
We sawed 2 "short" days, each with one Wood-Mizer Double-Hard 10° blade that I had resharpened to 8°.
These were fresh cut Locust logs, as we know, it does make a difference!
Ok. I hope I came up with the right blade size of 186" I have 19" band wheels with center to center measurement of of the pulley shafts of 63" If anyone can double check my figures and make sure they are right I would greatly appreciate it, and thank you everyone for you Ideas on the blades looks like I will get a few 4 degree and a few 7 degree blades thanks a gain for your help
Using an abbreviated version of pi, I get 185.9 inches. Good luck with the first blade!
Using Google calculator I get 185.690260418. You have enough room to adjust .3 inches I take it?
Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on November 06, 2016, 09:28:50 PM
Using an abbreviated version of pi, I get 185.9 inches. Good luck with the first blade!
Using Google calculator I get 185.690260418. You have enough room to adjust .3 inches I take it?
I think I have a few inches of adjustment on my tensioner box here is pic of my tensioner
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40619/311~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1478486488)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40619/310~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1478486589)
Just run a tape measure around the whole thing.
Quote from: larrydown60 on November 06, 2016, 04:29:42 AM
... I have built my own mill.
Larry,
Have you purchased your sheave for your driven side yet??
The reason for asking is... Proper blade speed (sfpm or surface feet per/min) is critical. This needs to be matched as closely as possible to your hp/torque output of your motor. To fast and it will lug the motor down and decrease the chance of having a good working and manageable torque curve while the blade is cutting. In turn, this will make milling a less than pleasurable experience.
If you plan on cutting this winter, you are going to be working with frozen logs. With that said... A 4 deg. blade is the only way to go. IMO and experience, it would be your best choice regardless.
Hope this helps ya out
When designing a mill its best to start with a commonly used band length, like for instance a WM-40, and build the mill around it. Also helpful if you have a wide range of adjustment. I would take ole Kbietz advice and stretch a tape around it, just to be sure. Company's that sell bands don't take you quite as seriously if you want an odd length band for a home made mill. Frank C.
x2 on what bandmiller said. If you have to go with a custom length, keep in mind that the number of teeth on the band needs to be a multiple of 3 (left set. right set, and raker). Otherwise setting the teeth can get a bit confusing, especially with an automatic setter. Wherever you purchase blades, keep in mind that a blade normally will need sharpening and setting after just a few logs. Some blade vendors offer a sharpening service, some don't. As to which blades I am about as biased as can be. Woodmizer doublehard 1 1/4 by 7/8 tooth spacing, 10 degree rake 25 thou set. Probably not the absolute best in some cases, but good enough for everything.
Thanks for all the info on the blades. I talked with the people at Cooks We decided to try a couple of their Xcel black blades with 10 degree hook to start with they said that blade would work good on my mill being low on HP and cut all types of wood. It will be good to start with a cheaper blade while I get things adjusted and aligned up. Thanks for all the help again
Larry
For blade length, measure hub center to hub center...multiply by 2...then add wheel circumference of one wheel...which is diameter x's 3.14...
Quote from: larrydown60 on November 11, 2016, 07:38:05 PM
Thanks for all the info on the blades. I talked with the people at Cooks We decided to try a couple of their Xcel black blades with 10 degree hook to start with they said that blade would work good on my mill being low on HP and cut all types of wood. It will be good to start with a cheaper blade while I get things adjusted and aligned up. Thanks for all the help again
Larry
That's a conflict from all that I was told. Lower HP should be lower hook angle.
I was told 4 degree hook is best for low HP.
Kbeitz, I told them I wanted the 4 degree blade and she told me not to listen to them woodmizer guys and listen to her . Cooks doesn't sell 4 degree blades. So I will try 2 to start with the price is good also. I will give you a review when I get them cutting
I'm only getting my information form what I'm reading on this forum from
the experience of people with low powered mill that has tried different blades.
I ended up with a load of blades from the junkyard when I first started milling.
They worked great. Then I was ready to buy new blades. I wanted 4 degree blades
and the sales man said that what I really wanted was 7 degree blades. So that's what
I got. I'm not happy with the 7's My junkyard blades did much better but I have no idea
what degree they was. So my next order will be 4 degree blades then I can really say
what works and what does not. I do know that I had to reduce my travel speed by
1/3rd with the 7 degree blades to make them work.
I am all ears because I have only seen a portable saw mill operate 1-2 times and have never milled anything. I will get some 4 degree blades but to start with I don't want to have to order 15 -20 blades at one time till I make sure my mill cuts good and I can get aligned up.I watch and read a lot on here and trust everything I am told thanks everyone for the help I really do listen.
If a fella sharpens his own bands he can try whatever hook he wants. To check hook you need a good protractor head. It helps if you have a white background and leave a slight gap between the protractor rule and the tooth face. From what I was told 10 degree help the feed on manual mill where you have to push the saw head through the log. My grinder is set for about 5 or 6 degrees, I say about because as the grinding wheel wears you get a little less hook. Really I don't think a degree or two is important as long as the tooth is sharp and set right. Frank C.
Quote from: larrydown60 on November 12, 2016, 07:42:28 PM
I am all ears because I have only seen a portable saw mill operate 1-2 times and have never milled anything. I will get some 4 degree blades but to start with I don't want to have to order 15 -20 blades at one time till I make sure my mill cuts good and I can get aligned up.I watch and read a lot on here and trust everything I am told thanks everyone for the help I really do listen.
Lots of good discussion here, remember hook is only
part of the equation for good performance with a band blade.
you have to consider set and pitch as well. Pitch I believe is pretty easy 7/8 is standard. Set is material dependent, softer wood
needs a little more set than the harder stuff.
I believe Cooks is pointing you in the right direction to start. You
could make an argument for the 8 Deg bands as you indicated in your original post
you have Maple & Locust however, I think what you will find is what works well for the harder logs, will not cut well or as well in the pine,
That's not to say you cant find a balance to work on both hard and soft species as long as you don't stray too far outside the boundaries of your log size
I'll add this, debark your logs if you can before you begin, your blades will thank you with longer run times ;)
Quote from: Kbeitz on November 12, 2016, 01:41:22 AM
Quote from: larrydown60 on November 11, 2016, 07:38:05 PM
Thanks for all the info on the blades. I talked with the people at Cooks We decided to try a couple of their Xcel black blades with 10 degree hook to start with they said that blade would work good on my mill being low on HP and cut all types of wood. It will be good to start with a cheaper blade while I get things adjusted and aligned up. Thanks for all the help again
Larry
That's a conflict from all that I was told. Lower HP should be lower hook angle.
I was told 4 degree hook is best for low HP.
I don't believe that to be correct When I had my Woodmizer LT 10 (10hp) I couldn't get 4 deg bands from WM and as I recall I had to really dig to even find 7's, 10's and 9's were readily available and recommended by WM. Their (WM's) position was the 10hp would not pull the 4's efficiently and it would saw poorly. This makes sense in the fact that 4's are a more aggressive (vertical) tooth than a 10 or 12 deg tooth.
D
i have a 13hp mill and it works well with 10* 3/4 pitch and 8* 7/8 pitch bands. those are the only ones i've tried. i cut about 800 feet of popple with an 8* and it still didn't seem too dull. i do brush off the logs well b4 i saw them. jg
Quote from: bandmiller2 on November 12, 2016, 08:02:41 PM
If a fella sharpens his own bands he can try whatever hook he wants. To check hook you need a good protractor head. It helps if you have a white background and leave a slight gap between the protractor rule and the tooth face. From what I was told 10 degree help the feed on manual mill where you have to push the saw head through the log. My grinder is set for about 5 or 6 degrees, I say about because as the grinding wheel wears you get a little less hook. Really I don't think a degree or two is important as long as the tooth is sharp and set right. Frank C.
Being that I sharpen my blades with a dremel my hook angle is a curve
and I would not know how to check it with a protractor. I think you need
somewhat of a flat edge to align the protractor up to.
As I stated before 10's don't cut well for me on my 13 hp mill with any wood with knots.
I use 8's 9's mostly 7's and 4's for the real hard stuff .
Bruno
Bruno,you also have a wide cut mill.
I use the 10's on hemlock and have a 20hp motor. But don't saw much knots. The knots go into the OWB. ;D
Thecfarm
I think it might be the lower hp on my mill that makes the 10's not cut well for me .
Thanks guys My saw is a 16hp my blade length is a 186" and Cooks had them for 20.00 each plus shipping and they don't make a 4 degree so I talked to WM and they have 4 degree blades for 30.00 each if I don't order 15 or 20 at a time so I will try a couple of them too. I will let everyone know how they work when I get them. thanks again
I guess this only applies if you sharpen with cbn, but I like 10s and 7s because if you hit metal, it's easy to bump them to a 9 or 4, at least using Wood-Mizer's profiles. Just fyi, the respective profiles are identical except rotated a few degrees, and the 4/9 profile is much shallower. Found that out the hard way accidentally turning all my 4s into 9s.
And I have no comment on the T7s for normal sawing performance, but I can say that when the eat it in metal, it's very easy to drop them down to normal 7s. And grinding the gullet isn't critical in my opinion, most cracks propagate from the back and there's no grinding those away.
Well after following this thread since it's first post, I feel there are a few issues that need to be clarified. If I were a new member looking for much needed advice this thread would have me more confused than before I first read it.
Larry, glad you found the proper blade length you needed. You might want to see if you can adjust your overall length to be in the 184" range. This is the standard length for a WM LT70. No added charge from blade supplier for a custom cut length. You really should have asked the person that you talked to at Cook's just how many thousand Bd Ft of lumber they have personally sawed with their 10 deg blades on a low HP mill. Justifying the sale of a profile they have by telling you that the advice for a lower hook angle blade you have received here is all wrong. That is total bull.
You all should go back and review the post that Cutting Edge wrote. He is spot on with his advice. His opinion is not based on speculation. It has been proven in real world, hands on sawing conditions.
I have been sawing full time and maintaining my own blades for over 16 yrs. I get paid on a full production basis. You could not give me a 10 deg blade. I use 7 deg blades as my general purpose blade and 4 deg blades as my fall back blade. I have sawn and owned mills in hp ranges from 18 to 62. I have seen the total evolution of most all of WM blade profiles. When I first started out, with an 18 hp mill, there were only two blade profiles 10 deg and 9 deg profiles. Made some really crappy lumber. With those profiles you could forget about cutting woods run w. oak and hickory accurately. When the 4 deg blade was released the cutting accuracy issues were resolved. If I were sawing with a low hp mill today, the 4 deg blade would be my general purpose blade. My advice for using a 4 deg blade on a low hp mill is founded on real world experience not conjecture. The manufacturer long time recommendation of a 10 deg blade being a general purpose blade is totally archaic.
I truly wish you guys would stop posting the link to Suffolk's Six Rules of Sawing. All they do is add more confusion to new mill owner looking for advice. Disproved those theories as long as 15 yrs ago. They are totally wrong when applied to a production sawing situation. If I were to try to follow these instructions I would be broke and out of business today.
Another issue that needs to be clarified is, a 4 deg blade being more aggressive than a 10 deg blade. It is exactly the opposite. The higher the deg of hook angle the more aggressive the blade is.
And I thought I was going crazy.... Now I can go and get some sleep.
Thanks for clearing all that up. This thread really had me confused.
Quote from: Kbeitz on November 16, 2016, 12:22:55 AM
And I thought I was going crazy.... Now I can go and get some sleep.
Thanks for clearing all that up. This thread really had me confused.
And I was thinking I was going crazy. :D Larry, I found that 7drg blades on my 9.5hp woodland mill does great on oak. I have yet to try 4 drg and I will try to get a couple in the future just to see if there is any improvement.
gmmills thank-you for your clarification of the 4 deg band v 10
larrydown60 I wish you the very best success with your mill.
D
Quote from: Cutting Edge on November 07, 2016, 06:04:02 AM
Quote from: larrydown60 on November 06, 2016, 04:29:42 AM
... I have built my own mill.
Larry,
Have you purchased your sheave for your driven side yet??
The reason for asking is... Proper blade speed (sfpm or surface feet per/min) is critical. This needs to be matched as closely as possible to your hp/torque output of your motor. To fast and it will lug the motor down and decrease the chance of having a good working and manageable torque curve while the blade is cutting. In turn, this will make milling a less than pleasurable experience.
If you plan on cutting this winter, you are going to be working with frozen logs. With that said... A 4 deg. blade is the only way to go. IMO and experience, it would be your best choice regardless.
e
Hope this helps ya out
I did buy a b57 belts For both drive and Ide side band wheels Thanks
LD60
where did u land with your band choice?
best
D
I have not sawed anything yet. As you know the weather put an end to my build back in December tried to get going again a couple of days ago but the ground is to wet to the mill out of the yard, truck is sinking in the ground 6" I lack about 1/2 hour of welding to finish and then I have to figure out how to align it all up. I ended up just ordering a couple of blades from Cooks they were 15'6" - 1 1/4 - 042- 7/8 . I will try some 4 degree from wood mizer I have some 36" x 10' locust that is sitting on the ground since last fall it will give the blades a test to see what works better 10 degree 0r 4 degree. I also bought a 20 hp kohler but I want to cut some wood before I put the new engine on. I have no place but the back yard to work on the sawmill that is why it is taking so long to finish it up next time the ground is frozen hard enough I will get the mill over to the basement door so I can finish welding it up I am ready to see this make some sawdust. I also have about 30 logs waiting to be sawed