I would like to get advice on felling damaged trees. I have numerous trees (primarily tulip poplar and oak) whose bases were severly damaged during previous logging operations (before I owned the land). Several of these trees are up to 30" in diameter. These trees still have significant amounts of good, solid wood further up the trunk. However, with the base and center rotted out significantly, what are the safest methods of felling? Any advice would be appreciated.
First thing, be very careful. Second thing, be very careful.
Rotted wood acts weird sometimes. I personally am not very comfortable felling a tree with significant or an unknown amount of rot. I understand that plunging the center of the tree through the notch can help matters. But you need to know what you are doing. There are some good links in the directory that cover this. But learning felling techniques via the internet is not the way to go about it in my opinion.
That said, don't cut the tree at 18" like normal. Move up a little higher or a lot higher depending on how much rot you have. That seems to be the technique I see most loggers use with trees like that. You already know that the butt isn't good, so it isn't like you are wasting anything.
Now Kevin or RonW or someone else with more knowledge should come in here tell me I'm wrong and give you a better answer. ;)
It`s risky business and difficult to say without seeing the trees.
If you start your face cut and end up cutting the only holding wood you could end up wearing the tree.
The safest method is to have them pushed over or cut by heavy equipment if they`re real bad.
Any leaners would be extremely dangerous.
It wouldn`t hurt to call a reputable logging company and get an estimate on having them drop the trees for you .
I favor getting someone else in to fell the trees for you, if they are that damaged. The extra bucks spent is a drop in the bucket compared to the worst case scenario. We had a client's caretaker get killed last week cutting a tree that was solid. Our cutter would have gladly cut it for him, he just wanted something to do.
How much are these trees damaged? Sometimes logging damage doesn't go in that far. And sometimes it isn't logging damage, but fire damage.
Got a farmer south of me that between himself, son and daughter, have about 1,500 acres – most of it good hardwood. A couple times a year they bring us logs to saw. Invariably it is from dead or damaged trees or trees they had to remove for some reason.
The last time he brought some logs, he said: "This time my luck almost ran out." He explained he had cut a dead red elm about 1' in diameter on the stump and thought he had the lean figured out. Well, he didn't and the tree settled back on his saw and he couldn't pull it out. He hadn't brought a wedge and sledge so he decided to nudge it over with the bucket on his tractor. Got up to it and just stated to push when what was left holding on the stump broke loose. But instead of the tree falling away, the butt kicked away and the tree fell back over the tractor. He just had time to dive down under the tractor and the tree fell across the seat and then down between the finder and left side of the tractor.
That wasn't the end of the action because the tractor was still in low gear and moving forward. He had to scramble under the tractor to get out on the right side. The tractor kept moving until it got wedged against the stump and started spinning on the wet leaves.
He had a heck of a time getting the tractor to stop spinning as the tree had smashed down the shifting lever and was setting over the clutch. But he finally managed to get it stopped. Said the steering wheel and shaft was bent, seat smashed, left finder smashed, and shifting lever smashed. But he was too glad it wasn't him that was smashed by the tree or the tractor.
Good warning story, Bibbyman. :P When I have trees like that, I always put the bucket to the tree, first. I cut the face in the tree and then put some more tork against with the bucket and start the back-cut in a tickleish manner, then finish off the job with the tractor. Yes it is dangerious, as you have related. ;) If you are the least hesitant of dealing with this sort of tree, DO NOT cut them yourself, bjorn, find a professional with good insurance and references
G'day,
Save your pennies, and get a pro in for that job! Felling healthy trees is dangerous enough, but when you add half rotted, leaners, and hangups, its just not worth the risks. If your scarf - open face cut - is sitting in rotten timber, then you dont have an anchor point once you start the back cut. Those are the kind of problems that will smear you all over Mother Nature real fast! Really.
If any of the timber is any good, you may be able to offer some to the guy doing the job as payment etc.
Cheers
Charlie.
Gotta go against the grain a bit here. First off, safety is the main concern, and if you have doubts, get a pro. That being said, I took down a couple of seriously butt-rotten trees at my mother's house, but thought it out well in advance. They were ash, only 18" dbh or thereabouts. Both leaned towards the house. (go an extra step in what I say and use a second line, as I was advised in a post about where a friend and I nearly dropped a huge Oak on a friend's cabin).
I knew an industrial electrician, and these guys have a kind of winch used to pull wires through miles of conduit. We hooked a cable to the upper part of the tree via ladder. I made the notches about 5 ft. up the tree. A small backcut (not into the rot) with the winch just snug. Then had the winch pull with everything it had while I drove a wedge. At the first hint of lean, I backed off and let the winch pull it over, instructing the others to push the line to the ground as it started to fall to avoid twisting or kicking back.
These trees, however, had nothing to hit but ground. If they may hit other trees, that triples the danger.
Though I did this, I did call a professional arborist to take a Chinese Elm down in my own yard, twas so big and wide that it overhung the neighbor's house. Had to be taken from the top down, and this boy don't climb with a saw! Nor do I have the rigging to lower the branches down as they are cut.
Safety has to overule profit in any case. Hard call without seeing the trees and terrain.
Hey everyone, I appreciate all the advise. I think I will call a logger I know to help me with the big ones. I would hate to let all this good wood go to waste. Plus I would like to get these trees down to make room for the healthy trees. As for fire damage, these trees are located along skidding trails, and took a beating. I can't understand why they didn't just take them while they were loggin. Most don't have any indications of problems further up the tree.
This link may help you ...
http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/logging_advisor/manual/felling/cuts/notches/notches.html
Being that it's tulip poplar, don't wait until summer before you get the logs cut into lumber. They will start to spoil when the weather gets warm.
Ron,
Do you mean don't let cut logs sit around, or don't fell them in the summer. I know tulip poplar degrades quickly. I have also heard that it is not good to fell these trees when the sap is in them. Is that so? If that is the case, it is too late for this year.
Don't let cut poplar logs lay. We cut tulip poplar all year long. The worst time is July and August when you get high temperature and high humidity. You can smell the logs turn sour. During that time, you have less than a week to saw them, or you get degrade. Any split logs, whether from cutting or handling, will stain along the split during any warm month.
Right now there isn't any problem with cutting poplar logs. The sap thing is pretty much a myth. There is always sap in trees. What will happen in the spring is there will be more water in the cambial layer. The bark will sluff off really easy, especially on poplar. That is probably when your stand was last logged and one of the reasons for the high amounts of logging damage. I've seen poplar logs squirt out of its bark during the spring. Then the logs are really slippey.
If you wait too long to cut the logs into lumber, you will lose the sapwood to stain. Stained lumber drops to 2 Common, if you can sell it. Some guys will not take any stain. Value is about 1/3. After cutting, put the lumber on dry stickers, unless you have a ready market. We start putting white wood on stickers about mid-April to the end of September.
Funny thing about the time a log is cut until it is sawn, one prevalent tradition around here is the notion that a log must lie on the ground for a couple of years before it's sawn. :( Quite a number of YaHoos around here preach and practice this despite using any and every opportunity to change them. We often saw logs for customers that are completely sap rotten. Sometimes they will call to make arrangements and say "They've only been cut a year, do you think they are dry enough to saw yet?" :o
Not only does that make them hard to saw, it's also messy, and reduces our yield and income. >:(
I don't know where that comes from, Bibbeyman. I get the same rig-a-ma-role down here too. I think the reason some of the sawyers say that about pine is because it is so messy. when you cut a fresh tree, sap flows everywhere and gets all over the mill and gloves and clothes and gets trailed into the truck and the house and we may find that the haus frau has more to say about it than the sawyer. :D
Needless to say, I prefer a log that's been freshly removed from the stump, still wiggling and screaming. ;D
We don't do too much custom sawing. Usually too much trash in the logs.
What I do have a problem with is convincing management they should saw the logs before they get too hard. We don't saw locust until there is an order. Usually the order is for 4x4 or 6x6, so why not saw some of them before they get too hard?
Last fall I sawed some hickory that was in the yard for 1 1/2 years. Some of that hickory had started to quarter split.
We also get some gypsy moth killed oak that has been standing dead for several years. Most places won't take the lumber since it messes with drying time. Sapwood is always gone.
We have one order for planed pallet stock. It is 1" and 2" and only amounts to 3-4 loads per year. Instead of planing when the lumber is still green, they will wait until the order is nearly due and the lumber is hard. Then they complain about how the knives won't hold up. Go figure.