Good morning all,
My 24' x 48' woodshop is a work in progress... it started as a 1950's framed-in building with little other improvements. I am have installed a ceiling, ample lighting and am slowly improving the wiring, insulation, walls, etc.
I need a whole shop dust collector, I don't have even a small single stage at the moment and I would like some input on sizing one for my shop. It would be easy to buy a mobile single stage collector for the immediate need, but in the end I know I want a stationary cyclone, but what I'm not sure of is how big.
This is a 2 man operation at the most, but mostly just me working in the evenings and on the weekends, it isn't a 40 hour/week production shop.
I was thinking to go with a 3hp stationary cyclone, what do you all think?
Good Morning to you as well.....Sounds like about the same size as my old shop..which was actually a garage. I used the Jet 1.5 HP and used I think is is schedule #3 PVC that ran along the top of the shop. Each tool had a drop to a gate. Easy to work with but if you get the gates I suggest the metal gate, they do not clog as easy. I suggest you ground the entire system although that is subject to opinion. I personally did not ground mine and had no issues. I used the remote on/off and kept one of the remotes on the opposite side for easy access. There are adapters for whatever tool you are attaching to the drops. A bit pricey but worth it. I also incorporated the RIDGID air purification which additionally helped "clean" the shop. One of the drops was close to the main unit that had a "sweep" where if you do sweep, you can take it to that drop and open that gate to suck it all up. Hope this helps and enjoy being creative.
mi shop is 20'x 24', so its a lot smaller, i am a one man band. I have about 5 big machines that use the dust collector, Its a grizzly, or shop fox 2hp. works very good, never had a problem with it. But i can just open the 4" pipes on one machine at the time especially on the planer who makes lots of wood chips.
If you work with two people i think you need at least 3hp
some thoughts on carsons reply, I have a 20" planer with a spiralhead and that thing produces waste, so 3" piping wouldn't be enough if you have bigger equipment. I used 4" pvc (non pressure) pipes. We cant get the dustpipes you can buy down here.
The dust collector manufacturers recommend designing the system first then picking the size of collector. Identify all the machines and their CFM requirements, and a layout that centrally locates the collector to minimize run length. With this info one can get back to the collector size.
I would guess while a 3HP might work it might be undersized for longer runs where 6" or larger ducting is needed or if ducts are open to more than one high demand machine at once. For a stationary cyclone you will absolutely want a large external filter and ability to swap out 55 gal or larger drums or bags if you are going to be planing much.
Oneida offers free design (refundable on purchase of the system): http://www.oneida-air.com/pdf/shop_plan_design_form_2014.pdf
Air Handling Systems offers excellent system design guidance online: http://www.airhand.com/designing/
Thanks for the thoughts and replies guys. Yes I guess I need to sit down and do my homework on the airflow requirements. Initially I have been thinking about the Grizzly 3 hp cyclone, but I don't want to regret it later on.
The 3HP seems to be quite the beast. I use 1HP in series with trash can and it can easily keep up with DeWalt 13" planer and 8" jointer - one at a time, I just connect a hose to the machine I am gonna use.
How big ducting are you going to run?
Quote from: SlowJoeCrow on December 13, 2016, 10:28:44 AM
Thanks for the thoughts and replies guys. Yes I guess I need to sit down and do my homework on the airflow requirements. Initially I have been thinking about the Grizzly 3 hp cyclone, but I don't want to regret it later on.
Look at the clear hose. Grizzlys black hose is junk.
SlowJoeCrow, i am also planning a 30x16 wood working shop. mine will be inside the 30x64x12 pole barn.
plan to run 4 inch, to a cyclone separator that will drop the big stuff into a 4x4x4 plywood box that i can pick up with the tractor to dump. then to a second cyclone to drop into a 55 gallon white plastic barrel. the barrel will have a LED light to show how full it is. the whole system to be driven by a large squirrel cage fan.
the flow will be: from shop, to box outside shop, to barrel, then filter then squirrel cage.
will have a camera looking at barrel with a TV monitor inside to see how full the barrel is outside
Concerning airflow, I'm sure I could get away with a smaller unit than 3hp, but almost all of the smaller collectors have dinky collection drums. I want a minimum of a 55 gal drum or I'll be emptying the collection drum way too much! DDW, I would be interested to see pictures of your setup when you get it built.
You are right on that. I use trash can with this lid:
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to separate shavings.
The dust bag still fills up but very slowly.
I use a 2 hp Grizzly canister one and it works good for my needs. I placed it close to the planer and ran 2 loops of 4 inch pvc pipe with a bare ground wire inside to everything else. I use one of the Cyclone lids on a 32 gallon trash can on the planer run and it fills in about 10 minutes so having a Cyclone with a big container is a good idea if you want to stretch out the dumps. :)
Quote from: SlowJoeCrow on December 13, 2016, 01:31:32 PM
.........DDW, I would be interested to see pictures of your setup when you get it built.
It will be a year or two. first a roof over the timberking, and then 3,000 feet of fence, then the chicken coop, then the ? ? ? ?
you know how it goes.
Size of the shop doesn't mean anything if all the big chip generating machines are in one place. The hp also means nothing, we need cfm numbers, and accurate ones. A LOT of companies overrate those things. The final piece of information is the machinery. Size of thickness planer and jointer are the big chip generators and the trunk line has to be designed for velocity to carry those chips. You will likely need 8" or larger for the trunk line. Here is the place for research; http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/
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Some folks are far too lazy to empty drums, preferring a tractor with a FEL to put chips in hole or sometimes into a waiting pickup.
3 horsepower with a 6" trunk line. I would want 5 if running more than one machine or if my system had a filter/cyclone on it.
I think TT had the best approach in getting some professional help. Especially if it was free.
Larry, Nice !
That puts a lot of the noise and fine dust outside, and the heat.
I think its worth the trade most of the time. Where I'm building he is putting a shop in the basement. He has an old trailer mounted lawn sweeper that is backed up to the back wall. The blower will be outside and blow into that vented vac trailer
Quote from: Larry on December 13, 2016, 08:54:29 PM
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What were you cutting is this shot?
Well, my "big iron" at this time is a Delta DC-380 15'" planer and a Delta DJ-20 8" jointer. These are my two large chip makers at the moment. But who knows what I might pick up in the future. I am looking at the Woodmaster units closely.
Tex, that's good ole black walnut sawdust. I was making some benches.
One of my mistakes was dust collector control. When I built the system I suspended a on/off switch from the ceiling central to my core machines. This worked well for a while. I've added dust collection to several more machines and the on/off switch is no longer convenient.
I thought about remote control, but I would loose the remote or figure out some way to break it. Think I will use a low voltage wired system....at least that's my thoughts today.
I've had 2 remote control boxes both failed after a few years. Thinking having blast gates turn on the collector via low voltage would be ideal.
Quote from: Larry on December 14, 2016, 01:16:59 PM
Tex, that's good ole black walnut sawdust. I was making some benches.
That color is amazing, not used to it.
Good for weed abatement .
Quote from: DDW_OR on December 13, 2016, 11:59:00 AM
the whole system to be driven by a large squirrel cage fan.
I wouldn't think that a squirrel cage fan (like out of an old furnace?) would work well for dust collection. They won't crank much suction. Too many rpms and they will come apart also if you use the old belt driven type to speed them up.
Quote from: Larry on December 13, 2016, 08:54:29 PM
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Some folks are far too lazy to empty drums, preferring a tractor with a FEL to put chips in hole or sometimes into a waiting pickup.
3 horsepower with a 6" trunk line. I would want 5 if running more than one machine or if my system had a filter/cyclone on it.
I think TT had the best approach in getting some professional help. Especially if it was free.
After thirty years of screwing with various dust collectors up to a 10hp cyclone, I just got tired of it and went with your method. I moved the shop out in the country, and it sure is nice to just use the tractor. Surprisingly the heat bill did not go up much, maybe $10.
That is very surprising to hear that the heat bill didn't go up that much. Outside venting seems to be the easiest way to go, but I had dismissed the option mostly due to my worry about heat loss in the winter. I have been considering a system where I could filter the air in the winter and keep it in the shop and in the summer I could switch over to outside venting. When you run in the winter, do you have an air intake that lets air into the shop to equalize the pressure or is your building drafty enough that there isn't a problem?
I've got the same trash can lid separator as Czech made and it does well for my 12" dewalt planer. I have it on a 55 gal drum as my current collector (a rainbow vacuum) has enough suction to implode a metal trash can. I just bought a 1 1/2 horse mobile collector for a can't beat price off northern tool
Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company supply. I have not set it up yet. It was sold as a mobile collector but since the mobile base system was the weak point I'm going to stationary mount it. It has a squirrel cage fan that moves quite a bit of air. Made in china is stamped on the motor but that seems to be the best part of the setup. Don't know the cfs but I'll only run one machine off it at a time. Buyer beware of northern tool
Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company and it lives up to the 3 star out of 5 rating though everyone dissed it for the mobile base system, not the fan or motor.
Regarding venting directly outside, if you're burning wood and don't open a window or have a proper fresh air intake it will suck the smoke right out of the stove. Don't ask how I know :-X
My dust collection situation is a complete mess at the moment. >:(
You mean to say you have a dusty dust collector? Lol
Quote from: SlowJoeCrow on December 15, 2016, 08:51:09 PM
You mean to say you have a dusty dust collector? Lol
Oh yes it's always covered in dust :D. Hoses all over the floor, dust collector pipe going thru a piece of osb in the window, gotta pull the hose out of the table saw to use the planer, and on and on... I had to take the pipe out of the window because it's so cold outside, so now I've added another layer of inconvenience next time I want to cut, plane or run the molder.
Quote from: SlowJoeCrow on December 15, 2016, 08:03:54 AM
That is very surprising to hear that the heat bill didn't go up that much. Outside venting seems to be the easiest way to go, but I had dismissed the option mostly due to my worry about heat loss in the winter. I have been considering a system where I could filter the air in the winter and keep it in the shop and in the summer I could switch over to outside venting. When you run in the winter, do you have an air intake that lets air into the shop to equalize the pressure or is your building drafty enough that there isn't a problem?
There are three garage doors in the shop, so built in leaks. If I open all of the openings to use it to evacuate when spraying I have to open a window, but to just run one machine at a time it is not a problem. If I figure out all the time I spent handling dust and apply an hourly rate to it, the heat bill is cheaper, and it is healthier. I just do like Larry and move it with a tractor. I make everything from rough stock so can make a pile of chips in a hurry. Yesterday I processed 350 bd ft of maple from 1 1/4" down to 7/8", would have been about 6 50 gal bags.
I had a switchable system at my last shop as the dust collection system was bigger, baghouse in the winter, outside in the summer, but that system was too big for my new homeshop location. It worked well other than any cars parked around the outlet were dusty. I'm trying to work out of a three car garage now till I can get my pole barn set up, sure miss that big shop!
Quote from: SlowJoeCrow on December 15, 2016, 08:51:09 PM
You mean to say you have a dusty dust collector? Lol
When I first moved my shop here I bought a Jet 2100 four bagger. My wife called it my dust redistribution system.
I could not get it to stop leaking, even tried cartridge filters, which plug pretty fast by the way when you work every day, and finally gave up and took the blower off and used it to blow everything outside like Larry. I have mine mounted inside at ceiling height so I can use a remote.
Larry, I like the remote. I put it in my shirt pocket and always leave it on the Biesmeyer fence at the end of the day. I did lose it a few times till I made myself put it in the same place all the time. :D
Very good points and thanks for the feedback! Planing sure makes the sawdust pile grow. Maybe I should refocus on shooting the chips outside and be done with it. My shop is out in the country and we have skid steers on the farm for handling. No filters to deal with...seems like a no-brainer now. That changes things quite a bit... all I need is a blower. Hmmmmm.
If you go that route I'm all for sticking that noise outside the wall.
The first big shop I worked in we had a large blower/cyclone and grain side truck outside. I tried to suck the building in one cold night, we had to keep a door open. It was a big day when I went to a shop with a bag house and air recirculation... we had heat. But those were large systems.
Larry & Just_Me: What kind of blowers are you using? Just blowers off of single stage canister dust collectors?
I just used the blower off of the Jet 2100 cfm, threw the rest out. I made a square duct to go through the wall out of Azek and a steel frame that hinges down for any service, and then slips back in to the duct when tipped up. I did make a flapper door on the end of the duct so cold air and critters could not migrate back in through the blower duct. Need to rework my hinge location a bit as it collects dust and does not close all the way. I have to clean it periodically.
Winters are extreme here so I did not want the blower outside, bearing are not made for below zero temps.
I heat 24/7 with a wood stove using something less than two cords a year. Our climate is moderate and a lot of time I have to open a window because its to warm. The shop is 1,500 square feet and fairly tight with average insulation. I have no trouble with pulling smoke out of the wood stove but maybe I'm lucky.
Since I heat 24/7 all the mass in the shop is around 65 degrees which moderates any temperature swing. When I run the DC it may run for a half hour at a time than off for a while. I never notice any change in temperature. Occasionally I will run the DC 4 hours at a time when processing a lot of lumber through the planer. I'll normally do this on warm days as I have the garage door open anyway bringing in lumber from outside.
My blower is a Murphy Rogers with a Baldor motor, all made in the USA. I don't think it makes a big difference where the blower comes from, but the motor should be high quality. If the system is designed properly the motor with be loaded near max and it runs more than any other motor in the shop.
Well, here's a little update on my dust collection status:
I stumbled across an nice lady who was interested in selling her late husband's woodworking machinery. I took a look at his immaculate basement shop, still full of tools and there was a Jet 1 1/2 HP DC-1100 canister filter dust collector. I left with the DC, all the duct work, a Jet 16.5" drill press, a delta 20" scroll saw, and a delta universal wet/dry grinder! I don't know what happened, honestly!!! It is a small shop but I am thinking about going back to look around some more, all of his tools were taken care of very well.
I really wanted a bigger collector, but the price was right and it will be waaay better than my shop vac. I am pretty stoked about it!
good find.
if the price is right then go back
I have a 16 X 20 shop that is wall to wall tools and lumber. I have a Delta Unisaw, 8" grizzly jointer, 18" Woodmaster planer,
10" sears radial arm saw and 10" delta ban saw. All of them are on my dust collector system, and the pipes are hanging from
the celling. The dust blower is out side on the back wall with a pipe running into a collecting box. The blower is a 2hp 1200
cfm unit. The inlet for the blower is 5" and I have it reduced to 4" for most of the machines. I also have a over head air cleaner
that I run when in the shop working. I have some photos I will put on here to show my set up.
Sawwood
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My whole shop was a dust collector before :D. Now I don't have a shop until I build a new one. Seriously considering building pier and beam with wood floors and running the dust collection under the floor along with the wiring.
Quote from: Larry on December 16, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
I heat 24/7 with a wood stove using something less than two cords a year. Our climate is moderate and a lot of time I have to open a window because its to warm. The shop is 1,500 square feet and fairly tight with average insulation. I have no trouble with pulling smoke out of the wood stove but maybe I'm lucky.
This fall I blew another 6" of cellulose in the shop attic. Fixed a couple of air leaks and did some caulking. Last week we had an unusually warm and completely calm day. I had the woodstove choked down and the fire was almost out. I opened two blast gates...you guessed it, I smoked myself out.
That taught me to leave a window cracked when running the DC. Ok in the winter as the woodstove puts out enough heat to warm a couple of shops my size. I added the extra insulation in hopes of being able to AC the whole shop this summer. Will see how that works out.
That's one scary looking chimney...
And I thought my shop was crowded ;D
Gotta post some pictures.
n/a
Now I don't feel so bad about my shop. I could still give you a go though (clutter wise).
My shop is an absolute mess right now, I need to do some major rearranging and cleanup.
same here
my idea of a 16x30 shop with 8 foot ceiling has changed to 24x30 with the ceiling as high as the pole barn rafters, 12 foot sides. so 10 or 11 foot ceiling. the 24x30 shop will still leave a 40x30 Pole barn area.
next choice is overhead or under floor dust collection.
overhead is better for maintenance, modifications and clog clearing.
underfloor is better for freedom of movement of a 16 foot 2x6
i think under the floor for the equipment that is not near a wall. and overhead for those near a wall.