can someone tell me what kind of fluid the W400 series winch operates on? I have a beautiful 1978 668C and the winch is slipping on heavy pulls (30 000 lb) logs? Its rated to pull 40 000 with the drum empty and easy yarding uphill? Just wondering if it needs new fluid? There is also a bit of black looking oil seeping occasionally out of the breather on the left side of the winch? The control valve used to operate the winch gets very warm with heavy use and not sure if that is common? Any help with this would be greatly appreciated very much.Thanks
assuming you have a clark winch, it gets fluid/pressure from the transmission. sounds like your pressure may be a little low. but they will stop pulling at a certain load. i am also assuming a 668 works the same as a 666.
yes its a Clark winch and its burping oil out of the breather and the oil is blackish in color so I don't think its tranny fluid because of its color. I'm wondering if there is some kind of other type of fluid the system is operating with? Maybe a type of gear oil? Its not leaking any where else that I can find. Will an air lock in the system cause it to discharge the oil from the breather? The tranny filter hasn't been changed in awhile and would this be causing some of my issues? Thanks for the advice
there may be gear oil in one side......honestly i have never had to mess with one, they just work. is it possible rain water got in the gear box side and over filled it? be careful what you do here, don't add gear oil where it can get into the trans.
This is a link to where you can get all the manuals you need for Clark skidders for free, it appears that just like Treeslayers and my own 666 the 668 also uses the same oil for the trans, converter, and winch, so my guess would be a bad seal inside the winch causing a small amount of oil into a spot it should'nt be and picking up dirt and debris somewhere before being pushed out the breather.
http://www.alliedsystems.com/pubs/pubs.htm#
Thanks treeslayer, the skidder was parked for 3 years and was never touched till it was given to me. I'm not much of a mechanic but have become very interested with the functions involved with this system. Will check for water and maybe the poppet valve in the breather.
Thanks fether, I have been using allied' s website and they have a lot of great info for our machines, just haven't found any info regarding my issues yet but will continue reading and hopefully find what I need.
The winch uses the same oil as the transmission. There is a clutch pack inside the winch that is a activated with transmission pressure. There should be a drain hose that goes through the hinge to the transmission case. So I would suspect that drain hose is blocked and allowing the winch to over fill. We used to add transmission fluid at the winch because it was much easier to pour there than in the cab with the floor board flipped. You don't want that burnt oil going back into your transmission. The clutch back is likely worn. Need to get the manual for than winch before breaking into it far. The clutch is strait forward. But the brake has some big springs that can blow apart on you if not disassembled and reassembled properly.
Thanks Kiko, would you remove the breather to add the ATF or did you use the drain tube? I have been trying to bleed my brakes the last day I was pulling wood and wonder if there was air in the system that could be adding to my winch slipping? With the exception of the midmount brake everything else runs off the same system(brakes trannny & winch) Is it hard to find parts for these winches? My model number is WD-412
you don't add fluid to the winch, it is in the transmission circuit. if the trans is full the winch is full.
Yes, but you can add the transmission fluid through the breather on the winch. I don't know how to direct to an old thread started by nblogger in which oldseabee goes in depth to Clark winch operation and diagnosis. May be some one can help find it. In that thread oldseabee writes about the breather being a check valve not just a breather and if it is open both ways it can allow splash oil to seep out of the breather/ check valve.
That thread is titled Clark winch problems.
clark winch problems (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,46125.msg664071.html#msg664071)
Quote from: kiko on June 12, 2017, 11:27:47 PM
Yes, but you can add the transmission fluid through the breather on the winch. I don't know how to direct to an old thread started by nblogger in which oldseabee goes in depth to Clark winch operation and diagnosis. May be some one can help find it. In that thread oldseabee writes about the breather being a check valve not just a breather and if it is open both ways it can allow splash oil to seep out of the breather/ check valve.
so it is the same breather/check valve as on the converter then.....
but why would you have to add fluid to the winch?
i am afraid seabee may have left us. that man forgot more about clarks than i will ever know.
if anyone is looking for a spare clark/Lufkin winch I have one that ill let go only to a FF member
Treeslayer, like you stated if the transmission is full the winch is full. same circuit. It is just easier to fill the transmission at the winch than in the cab holding the floor board up and the bucket sideways. Either way the same thing is accomplished.
Thank you all for the advice as I scroll through the comments I learn something new about my machine. I've been a coastal faller here in British Columbia for 30 years and was in a bad falling accident in 2014 leaving me with a crippled led and paralyzed left foot.My ex boss gave me the skidder and I've been trying to get this old girl running smooth with some difficulty its getting there and the info you guys share is very helpful,thanks again!
I've been searching for parts and haven't had much luck finding a good source. Does anyone know a good place to get a clutch pack and various other parts for my tranny system as well as the brake system on these 668C's?
Thanks
why do you think it needs a clutch pack?
That skidder has a 2800 clark transmission. All wear parts such as seals, clutch and reaction plates should be available from Aftermarket Parts Inc dealer. Bowers transmission also .
My winch controls get hot to the touch and i'm wondering if its time to change the hoses that supply the fluid to function the winch?
if I'm right it will get almost as hot as the fluid in the tranny I know that's the way cat is
With my winch slipping on real heavy(30 000+)pulls i'm wondering if its got something to do with a clogged up line or the suction screen in the tranny?Living in a real isolated community has its challenges with finding a good mechanic let alone one that knows these Clark skidders. It seems that since my winch started slipping the control valve in the cab has progressively gotten warmer to touch as I use it more, some pulls it lifts the front wheels off the ground very easy without slipping and then the next pull it slips real easy.Frustrating when you just want to get that log to the road
if your pulling front wheels off ground that is all it can do. however, the brake should never slip. i thought you meant the clutches slipped winching in. if the clutches slip this will create heat in the system. i suggest you get a gauge and test in various areas to see if lines are clogged/collapsed.
thanks treeslayer, i'll get a gauge and test the system this week and hopefully have some better news to report :)
If your still having problems with the winch ive worked on many clarks here in maine and on a slipping winch pulling in I always check pressures on the right side of winch where the adjustable free spool knob is located usually under that there is a 1/4npt plug test port on the pressure line that comes from the trans control valve. Should be 240-280psi if pressure is good and fluid is clean (dexron auto tranny fluid) than input clutch pack needs overhaul. Parts are readily available on minnpar.com I can give you part numbers for clutch disks and all seals if it comes down to that. Good luck!
Quote from: MCLOGGING on June 21, 2017, 07:26:55 PM
If your still having problems with the winch ive worked on many clarks here in maine and on a slipping winch pulling in I always check pressures on the right side of winch where the adjustable free spool knob is located usually under that there is a 1/4npt plug test port on the pressure line that comes from the trans control valve. Should be 240-280psi if pressure is good and fluid is clean (dexron auto tranny fluid) than input clutch pack needs overhaul. Parts are readily available on minnpar.com I can give you part numbers for clutch disks and all seals if it comes down to that. Good luck!
welcome and feel free to stick around.
Quote from: MCLOGGING on June 21, 2017, 07:26:55 PM
If your still having problems with the winch ive worked on many clarks here in maine and on a slipping winch pulling in I always check pressures on the right side of winch where the adjustable free spool knob is located usually under that there is a 1/4npt plug test port on the pressure line that comes from the trans control valve. Should be 240-280psi if pressure is good and fluid is clean (dexron auto tranny fluid) than input clutch pack needs overhaul. Parts are readily available on minnpar.com I can give you part numbers for clutch disks and all seals if it comes down to that. Good luck!
Thanks, I just ran my machine to the shop yesterday it was 65 kilometers out of town so it took me all day. While I was on the road I stopped several times to check the temperature of the casing around the front of the winch as it seemed warm when I warmed up the machine before starting my journey. The casing was hot to touch around the ID tag on the front of the winch as well as the control valve inside the cab? The day before yesterday I was having trouble getting it to freespool and when I tried to get slack off the winch yesterday it was back to normal and easy to pull line? I will be working on it today checking the pressure and going over all the lines and changing anything that looks worn. all the U joints in the driveline and the winch have been diligently greased and are tight , my tranny fluid looks new with no signs of water or any other contaminants. Earlier this year I put a new used midmount in my machine and the mechanic put 80 weight gear oil in it instead of tranny fluid which I discovered a month ago when I drained it. I put new tranny fluid back in it and have been wondering if this could cause any issues with my system having that gear oil in there for a couple months. My brakes are real hard to bleed and always feel spongy.Would any of these factors lead me to the troubles i'm having with the winch? Thanks for your help MC and Treeslayer :)
midmount?
I'm assuming that by midmount you are talking about the brake box? That shouldnt have had any effect on the winch if thats the case. Back to your winch I forgot to add if all your pressures are good and before you decide to pull the winch input clutch pack first remove your winch control valve in the cab I have seen also several times but rare that there is a spring on the back of the spool valve and it can break but still operate but it allows oil to bypass constantly and create heat, strange winch problems ranging from excess heat winch creeping in by its self and also cause the engine to lug. Hopefully you can pin point the problem, the clark trans and winch are a Cadillac in my opinion!
Yes MC, the midmount was installed on only a limited amount of skidders back when they were built. I finally had time to go over the machine and what I found was the breather on the winch had backed off and was finger tight allowing air both ways(in & out) and caused the system to over heat. I simply pulled it off cleaned it and reinstalled and now its not heating up. I ran a few trial pulls with it and its back to normal operating temps. I also changed my tranny filter and fluids changed a couple worn lines and fittings and added a new tranny temp gauge. The tranny filter I changed that's under the air filter assembly was in rough shape like it was used for a anvil lol . I cleaned a lot of dirty grime out of the filter casing. Thanks for the help