So yesterday i visited a WM owner that let me operate his LT40 diesel for a while. My mill and the only mill I've ever ran is an LT28. This guy has the Yanmar diesel, command control, Accuset2, debarker and lubemizer. So just about every option available. So really a great opportunity for me to test out specific options that i may or may not want to spec on my new mill. So a few things were immediately evident:
The diesel has an abundance of power. Maybe overkill for my weekends only use. Plus it was not as easy to hear the engine load when the feed rate was increased. I was sawing a 19" Red Oak that cut like a 10" pine would on my 28.
The claw turner is not the easiest thing to use. Why doesn't WM go completely chain turner?
The hydraulic clamp is much like the manual clamp in that you only want to snug it up to the cant. Too much clamping pressure can cause the cant to tilt.
I still have the same clearance concerns. Are the backstops and clamp low enough for the blade to clear them? I sure wish they would come up with some sort of sensor that would let you know you're not going to saw into the backstop.
The command control is awesome! I love standung at the head of the mill where you can see the entire area. Plus no sawdust blowing in my face. 8)
The Accuset2 is leaps and bounds beyond what I'm used to. The auto down is really nice. I barely touched on its full capabilities but definitely liked the system. I'm guessing that the Simple Set would probably be great as well for my needs.
I'm thinking that an LT40 with 38hp gas, command control and Simple Set would probably put a smile on my face that couldn't be wiped off.
After a few months of shopping and mental wrangling that is pretty much what I decided on. And for another $795 l figued why not go wide. So far, after a dozen or so logs I wouldn't change a thing.
Yeh the WIDE option is definitely on my want list. Being able to saw thru 34" instead of only 26" like i can right now would be really nice. Speaking of that... with the extra width capacity why don't they increase their stated capacity of a 36" diameter log?
Quote from: Whitetail_Addict on June 18, 2017, 08:32:49 AM
Why doesn't WM go completely chain turner?
IMO the claw turner is one of the best things I like. When you get used to it, it can be used for things other than just turning. I've see the chain turner work....I still prefer the claw.
You asked if the back stops are low enough to clear the blade.
With the clamps all the way down, how much lower do you want your blade to go?
Quote from: Whitetail_Addict on June 18, 2017, 09:47:31 AM
... with the extra width capacity why don't they increase their stated capacity of a 36" diameter log?
I've thought about that myself and the only conclusion I could come up with is the fact the saw head still only goes to a maximum height of 36" above the bed. But the reality is that in spite of that fact, you could cut a bigger log.
The clamp/backstop/band clearance wasn't necessarily only when you're clamping a cant. When you have a square edged cant it works really well to position the log clamp at its lowest possible position - below the 1" minimum of the blade. Then you don't need to worry about your cut clearing the backstops and clamp. So when your clamping a log the backstops and clamp both must be up higher on the round edge of the log - potential for a blade/backstop/clamp collision. With only my eyeballs judgement to rely on to avoid the disaster
Dave,
I guess I have not learned those other things to do with the claw turner and I am with WA thinking it is a bit of a weak point. I have not used a chain turner so I am not giving a fair evaluation. I find the claw works well on long, larger diameter logs but is less effective on smaller, shorter stock. I often have to make several short starts on a log to get it to turn. In fact on most small stuff it is faster to just turn by hand with a short cant hook I keep at/under the front of the mill for that purpose. I am thinking if there were a pair of claw turners it would work better. My claw tends to raise the far end too high causing the multiple short starts while I think if there were a second claw closer to the front of the mill it would go ahead and spin the log/cant.
It took me a while to gain confidence in the clamp but I now completely trust the clamp. If I lower the outside movable clamps all the way down and just barely raise the center clamp and tension it snug but not overdo it, I find I can cut 4/4 stock comfortably. I do usually do a quick check at about the 2" mark to make sure I have enough clearance but rarely do I feel nervous enough to reset/lower another fraction of an inch and I don't remember the last time I nicked one.
I think most will agree the mills are designed for cutting 8' and longer logs. Cutting shorter logs causes all kinds of challenges such as the toeboards being unusable or ineffective to level short logs.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 18, 2017, 12:17:37 PM
I think most will agree the mills are designed for cutting 8' and longer logs. Cutting shorter logs causes all kinds of challenges such as the toeboards being unusable or ineffective to level short logs.
You are exactly right.
My Lt40 was designed for a LOG...minimum 8 inch diameter, minimum 8 foot long.
Anything smaller....my mill looks and me and says...."You're on your own buddy". :D :D :D
In certain situations I have raised one end or the other with the claw and sawed. It serves as a toeboard and a clamp while still using the regular clamp.
I have sometimes used the clamp as a toe board. Actually the log will not be clamped in this situation but the weight of the log is heavier than the weight the blade will move.You CANNOT do this on small diameter logs.
When sawing a big cant from top to bottom and leaving the boards in place up to 16 inches high ( the head will not travel across a cant higher than 16 inches), I will hide the clamp under the cant when I get down to the last 4 or 5 boards and drop my back stops all the way down. The weight holds everything in place.
This insures me I'm not sawing into anything.
Lets keep in mine not every mill has back stops alike. Some have 2 HD back stops, some have manual.
I have 4 HD back stops. Some have 2 manual and 2 HD....So your back stop positions will vary in different situations.
I have had a 40 with the claw and now have a 50 with the chain turner. I love the chain turner hands down. I also got the 3cyl Yanmar, plenty of power beyond what drive belt will take! I ordered mine with the wireless remote. I was unsure of that at first but now it's pretty much the only way I run it. I like being able to walk around the mill and be able to control it.
Dave,
I heeded Jim and Tyler Whitely's suggestion and bought the 2 extra hydraulic side clamps when I ordered my mill and I have never come close to a hint of regret especially when sawing shirt stuff.
Are you referring to the side supports? I'm not aware that WM offers extra hydraulic clamps on their mills.
Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on June 18, 2017, 03:14:38 PM
Are you referring to the side supports? I'm not aware that WM offers extra hydraulic clamps on their mills.
I call them back stops. Some call them side supports.
If by "some" you mean Wood-Mizer then, yes, you are correct sir. ;D
Wood-Mizer properly named them "side supports" because they are located on the "side" of the sawmill and "support" the log/cant. Of course this is quickly verified by looking at your operator/service manuals. :)
The "back" of the sawmill is where the tail lights are, just like your truck. There are no supports or stops there. ;)
Since coming to the FF I have come to accept that people call them backstops, but every time I read "backstop" that tall fency looking thing I see at the baseball diamond comes to mind. :D
The MM is absolutely correct again. My manual Parts chapter, section 10-7 Hydraulic Log Side Supports (Middle - Optional) page 10-13 are the 2 I am talking about and mistakenly referred to as a clamp earlier. They look like they cost $150 extra installed when purchased initially with the mill and have been well worth every penny many times over.
Quote from: Magicman on June 18, 2017, 07:43:53 PM
Wood-Mizer properly named them "side supports" because they are located on the "side" of the sawmill and "support" the log/cant. Of course this is quickly verified by looking at your operator/service manuals. :)
The "back" of the sawmill is where the tail lights are, just like your truck. There are no supports or stops there. ;)
I call them Back Stops. As written in the Goat Manuel, page 300. :D
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on June 18, 2017, 08:42:04 PM
Quote from: Magicman on June 18, 2017, 07:43:53 PM
Wood-Mizer properly named them "side supports" because they are located on the "side" of the sawmill and "support" the log/cant. Of course this is quickly verified by looking at your operator/service manuals. :)
The "back" of the sawmill is where the tail lights are, just like your truck. There are no supports or stops there. ;)
I call them Back Stops. As written in the Goat Manuel, page 300. :D
At the risk of running out of quote fluid, I'll quote again anyway.
Mr. Goat, Sir, with no disrespect intended, in spite of what the goat manual says, I still think of the fency thingy at the baseball diamond when you and others refer to them as backstops. :D
And one more thing, where can I get a copy of the goat manual? I'll bet it would be an entertaining read! :D :D :D
It says in the Goat manual that they are Back Stops.
Side Support? What is it supporting? Nothing.
What is it stopping?
The log from rolling off between your tire and frame. Simple.
What do you call a rubber cylinder, 50 foot long that carries water.
Y'all call it a water hose.....We call it a hose pipe. Its just a southern thang. :D
This is a sheet rock vs drywall argument :D :D. But I wish I had to much hp that the drive belt was my weakness...WV Sawmiller.
:
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on June 18, 2017, 09:39:11 PM
It says in the Goat manual that they are Back Stops.
Side Support? What is it supporting? Nothing.
What is it stopping?
The log from rolling off between your tire and frame. Simple.
What do you call a rubber cylinder, 50 foot long that carries water.
Y'all call it a water hose.....We call it a hose pipe. Its just a southern thang. :D
:D :D :D
On the topic. My mill all hydro. I had a log turner idler adjustment break so no log turner. So I grabbed the can't hook. I found out very quickly that I changed the way I sawed. Not for the good. Laziness prevailed, instead of turning log I would cut my can't down to a 6x6 only turning log (manually) 4 times. Of course they were10-14in logs. And my blade took the brunt of the work (always in the bark). But the "to be edged" stack got big qiuck with alot more 2 sided live edge. I would hate to see myself on an all manual mill. It takes a day or two every ounce in a while of not having somethin to remind me of what I have. Of course it's a matter of prospective, I have to make xxx amount of lumber a week to keep up with another business I have. If not bottleneck occurs overnight and shortly after 2 employees riding that time clock :D
Manual mill is fine,if just sawing for yourself. ;D I only saw for mine own building projects. I would not want to try to make a living on a manual mill. :o ::)
I make half a living with a manual mill it's hard work.
But I cut what a good seller for me.
Two big differences in manual vs hydraulic.. Initial cost. I bought a used manual mill cause that's what the budget would bear. I quickly found out I needed some assistance with material handling. At my age, wrestling big logs and moving/stacking lumber soon becomes an excuse for leaving the mill idle Production.. amount of lumber produced per day and the physical cost of same.
Adding factory hydraulics proved to be impractical, but there are ways around that. My current mill is the same manual wm lt40 with home-made hydraulics added a little bit at a time as I could afford. A manual mill has it's place, but if you get serious about making lumber, hydraulic assist is a must unless you enjoy abusing your bod..
I would to add resale value. I shopped all last winter and decided the extra I spend now for hydraulics will be at least partially returned if I ever decide to sell or trade.
I see ppl talk about hydraulics all the time. Does anyone ever think of electric hydraulic? or maybe straight electric that can be run off the alternator? Aren't most hydraulic systems run off a second engine? Unless its a full hydro mill?
Quote from: Crusarius on June 19, 2017, 12:25:53 PM
I see ppl talk about hydraulics all the time. Does anyone ever think of electric hydraulic? or maybe straight electric that can be run off the alternator? Aren't most hydraulic systems run off a second engine? Unless its a full hydro mill?
I believe Wood Mizer uses a electric powered hydraulic pump and Pineywoods homemade hydraulics are 120vac powered. Some are powered by a second engine.
Two of the best friends a sawmill owner can have,
1 A diesel power-plant
2 Hydraulics
If you can have them both you're in great shape,
D
I'm all electric. Just turning hydraulic pumps. No gas or diesel here. I guess I'm kinda coal powered, because that's what fuels are electricity here on the power grid 8)
Quote from: killamplanes on June 19, 2017, 06:29:25 PM
I'm all electric. Just turning hydraulic pumps. No gas or diesel here. I guess I'm kinda coal powered, because that's what fuels are electricity here on the power grid 8)
How many hp on each, if I was stationary that would be the way to go, also instead of the cord reel I'd set it up like the Cooks with the overhead wires. Steve
Mines over head wire. It also has the hydraulic hoses for up,down motor which is also hydro. 3hp hydraulic, and a whooping 10hp motor for saw.(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42551/20160328_155445~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1459216788)
there is a 16 hp kubota b7100 just down the road for sale. The guy wants 2500 for it. Bet that would make a decent power plant for my sawmill :)
All manual mills should be upgradable to hydraulics, of course manufactures want you to order a new mill. Selling and buying new incurs taxes and other losses that would have made it cheaper to order the hyd's on your first mill. Dubbing around cutting for yourself alas "putter miller" is fine but that leads into milling for hire. If your an older fella get or build a hydraulic turner, give the money to yourself not the chiropractor. If your young and strong, stay that way with hyd's. Frank C.
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on June 18, 2017, 03:30:28 PM
Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on June 18, 2017, 03:14:38 PM
Are you referring to the side supports? I'm not aware that WM offers extra hydraulic clamps on their mills.
I call them back stops. Some call them side supports.
I've called them "targets" a few times, but won't admit how many times