With all this talk of blades is there a site or here on the FF
that will show me what blade set it and hook angle? I know
some of this as its the same as my 12" ban saw but is there
only a few mill blade with so many teeth per inch ? Would
like to learn more so when i git my mill i will know what to
buy in blades.
Sawwood
Most guys use 1¼" X .041 thick X 7/8" tooth space X 10° Hook Angle. This works pretty well as an "all purpose" blade. Some experiment with set and ° of Angle. Set is usually around .022". There are also a .031-.035" thick blades.
When I send those Suffolk Blades, I will try to remember to send their Brochure. It is very informative.
Thanks Fla_Deadheader for the info. I have a 1.5" Timber
wolf blade that is 12'6". i looked in town for some one to
shorten it. One guy said thats its not good to shorten or
reweld a blade. Couldn't give me a good reasen so will
try and call Timber Wofl and see what they say. Thanks
for the blades.
Sawwood
If it ain't good to re-weld one, how'd they make it in the first place ??? I love them kinda guys ::) ::) ::) ::)
Sawwood,
Don't believe the guy. Bandsaw blades h ave been broken and re-welded/silver soldered intentionally for many years. It's the only way to get a bandsaw to cut an inside circle. You drill a hole, break thte blade, put the blade through the hole and reweld it. Then you have to break it again to get it out.
You might not know the condition of the blade if it's someone else's but that doesn't mean that trying it is a bad thing. Some will work harden and have cracks. Some will have been sharpened improperly and have bad gullets. Some will have been in the weather too long and weaken. They are still free blades. Just pick the best and give them a try. If they work, you are money ahead.
I hate it when someone makes a generalized, blanket statement like that when there are so many options available. :)
FD; didn't you have a hat. And does that jacket have sawdust in the pockets?????? ::) ::) ;D Boy do I like these critters. :o :o :P 8)
When I had my first mill the blades were 13 ft 3 inches. When I built the mill frame and carriage larger I had all these 13 ft 3 inch blades that I couldnt use cause the blades now are 14 ft 6 inches. I ask my blade man if he could lenghten them by adding 15 inches and he said he'll try. He did and they work like a new blade, use them until they got to narrow. Had around 5 resharping on them.
EZ
Hey Bruce. Yeah, I got a hat. Jeff stole it, but Tom found it. It's on the General Page.
I wasn't sawin when that pic was taken. That's "Closet Dust". I HATE wearin a Jacket & Tie. Just thought I'd susprize Y'all for the Holidays. ;D ;D ;D
Next pic I got this neat "Speedo" I'm gonna model. ;D ;D ;D
NOOOOOOOOOOO :o
Jeff B, check the rule book and make sure speedo's are not allowed!
The "bad to re-weld a blade" idea probably comes from the good advice given from people that have tried to extend the life of a worn-out blade that broke of fatigue by re-welding it. The problem is, it'll just break someplace else real soon.
I don't think cutting and re-welding a new blade would be the same situation.
Rewelding a blade and the life you get from it thereafter depends on the metalurgy of the blade and the care taken to eliminate the stresses put in during the welding process. If stress relief is done properly after the proper weld is done, the band will have long life.
id like to know some techniques for joining ends back together,mnboy.
thanks,
jon
Small blades like you have on a shop bandsaw are put together with silver solder. The welders for them are affordable and in the 200 to 500 dollar range.
Band blades like we use on the sawmills are under much more tension and are much wider. The welders for bands thta are greater than 3/4 inch are very expensive, if you can find them at all.
You are probably better off taking them to a shop that has the experience and equipment.
What you need is one of those "cognito" things. ;D
https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/harold-incognito-1.jpg :D
Hay Tom the cognito thing looks pretty good but he needs "The Hat" to be camoflougeed too.
Harold you look pretty good in that speedo
Redpowerd,
If I could weld and relieve the stresses reliably, I'd be a welder instead of a sawyer. I just know that it has to be done to be successful at welding bands.
WM gave me a book when I got the mill that had some good general blade info in it. When I get home I will look and see which one it was.
I use mostly WM double hard 10 degree 1 1/4 wide by 0.045 thick 7/8 blades. They work well in pine and oak and I can even saw frozen wood with them. It is a very good general blade for most uses. Having only one to two types of blades keeps my life simple since I have over 100 blades on hand. I do have some 10 degree 1 1/4 x 0.055 blades for hickory and very knotty wood. They break by the 3rd sharpening but have cut over 3,000 bdft so it is a good trade off since I can keep my bdft per hour rate. I have used 13 degree in pine and they cut really well and fast, but will jump on a large knot so you have to be awake and slow down at large knots. I have used the 9 degree blades in hickory and osage orange and did not notice much improvement. They were 0.045 thick and I may have gotten better results with a 0.055. I have not tried a 4 degree blade and can not tell much about them but hear they do well in hard wood and frozen stuff.
As for spacing any thing less then 3/4 inch would be too fine and more then 1 1/4 to big a bite. I used some 1 inch Lennox blades some time ago and they were good in pine and cedar. So a tooth every 7/8 to 1 inch would be a fine general blade.
How thick depends on HP and wheel dia. If your wheels are 19 inch like on the WM a blade thicker then 0.045 will break because of the flex sooner and blade life will go down. A 0.035 blade has a long flex life but will get to narrow to sharpen and will not cut as many bdft an hour and be more prone to "jump" over knots. 0.055's will break on a small whell like mine before you can get any where near wearing it out. But they cut hard and tuff stuff very well and will cut more nails and keep cutting better then any thing else. If I put it on and saw 1,200 bdft and it breakes that is less then $0.02 bdft blade cost. I can take it off after 900 bdft and sharpen it and run it another 1,000 and take it off I can sharpen it again. I may get another 800 bdft before it breaks. cost is still around $0.02 a bdft.
How wide is a HP thing mostly and wheel dia will play in as well. You may get more sharpenings from a 1 1/2" if you grind your own but if it will not live long enough to bend around the wheels what is the use? They do cut flatter and take knots better being wider but it takes more HP to pull it through the log. So if you are electric or running a big diesel engine then the 1 1/2" or wider blades may up production to justify the cost.
Hook angle just means how much "bite" each tooth will take. In hard woods you will not want each tooth to bite to much or heat will kill the tooth. You also do not want to little bite or you will take to long to chew through the wood and the longer the blade stays in one place the more heat it generates. Thats why sawing to slow is as bad as sawing to fast. As a general hook angle 10 degree seems good. Hardwoods do well at 9 or 10 degree and softwoods seem to do well in the 13 degree range. Mills will respond differently in respect to blade speed in how well they cut.
Set is about half of the blade thickness. You need the teeth to cut a groove wide enough for the rest of the blade to follow and leave just enough sawdust behind to keep from "pinching" the blade. Soft woods can stand more set then hard woods but the main important thing is that each side be set the same distance from the middle of the blade and all the teeth the same amount. That is why I use re-sharp.
Now what else do you need to know other then the best way I have welded blades back together is to TIG weld them. Also if a blade breaks at the weld send it back to the maker and if it breaks any where else and you have not sawn 4,000 bdft or sharpened 4 or more times I would change brands.
ARKANSAWYER
Thanks Arkansawyer thats what i needed. The Norwood
has a 20hp Honda with 18" wheels. It takes a 12' band
and i not sure what set JR is useing. I do know its a 1 1/4
by 7/8 blade, I will just find some one that runs a 1 1/2"
blade and just give it to them. Again thanks,
Sawwwood
Got my pic changed to the one with the neat lookin Speedo.
Did Y'all see the one Tom put a link to ??? ::) ::)
I think he's gettin a little " Strange" these days ::) ::) ;D ;D :D :D I wooda NEVER posted sumpin that looks like Dat. :o ;) :D :D
Looks better FD and thanks a bunch.
Arkansawyer hits the question that I have been asking myself lately. Being in the market for a new mill, I have been trying to examining the bennefits and drawbacks to different sized band blades, specifically, the cost relationships between 1 1/4, 2, and 3-6 inch regular and double-cut band blades. As the relationship between initial overhead for the larger blades and equipment to run them is easy to determine, my main problems have been determining realistic benefits in the performance department.
A 2 inch band is around twice as expensive as as an 1 /1/4 but seams to yield around 20% more production per sharpening. Assuming 8 sharpenings per 2 inch blade vs. 6 for 1 1/4, production numbers could be 3600 ft (600ft per Sharpening) for the 1 1/4 vs. 5760 ft(720 ft. per Sharpening) for the 2 inch.
Figuring $25 for the 1 1/4 and $50 for the 2 inch blades, plus a resharpening cost of $8 per time, blade overhead would workout to .020 cents/bf for the 1 1/4 and .019 cents/bf for the 2 inch blades, or for arguements sake, exactly the same.
If the additional initial overhead to run a 2 inch blade is estimated at 2500.00, the cost of some manufactures to upgrade from say a 30-40 horse diesel to a 50-60 horse, and then averaged into the production numbers for someone sawing full time( lets say 100,000 bf/year over five years, which would likely be the length of the loan) then the aditional cost for the upgrade would be .001 cents/bf, making the cost of the 1 1/4 vs. 2 inch blade, over the long haul, almost exactly the same.
Now the numbers I have used are guesses of the top of my head, so please correct me If I am making any assumptions in my numbers that would greatly effect the results. I have no experience with two inch bands so if I'm off, please let me know.
heres somethin i have always wondered, i hear the double sided blades mentioned from time to time in the large sizes, how the heck do ya run blade guides against the back side of them without killing the teeth?
To run a two sided band, the tension is much higher than is normally run with the smaller bands we are accustomed too. The roller guides place downward force on the center of the band blade which keeps the blade from pushing off in either direction. Because much more tension is required to keep the blade in place, larger bandblades are necessary.
Or at least I think that is how they work ;)
It was suggested to me that I try this forum as a possible source for information to where I could locate some carbide teeth to be used with a Disston C shank or bit holder. I need 36 teeth, or bits. Does anyone out there know where I could locate some, either new or used but usable? Thanks for any help.
Let me be the first to welcome you to the Forum, Loggerbabe.
You were told correctly, there is more info here than anyone has a right to know about.
I'm sure the Circle Blade folks will be responding. Just be a little patient. It's a Holiday, after all. ::) :D :D :D
Haines, where ??? We like pics on here. LOTS of pics. What's your job capacity, just logger or more deeply into the whole Timber thing ???
Whay kind of blade should I use to cut sassafras. I may have about 2000 bd/ft to cut and was wondering what would be my best choice . I need to by some blades anyways and this could result in a once or twice a year thing . I have a 20 HP manal mill if that matters , other than it is recommended to run 1 1/4 bands .
WV Hillbilly.
Well, Fla._Deadheader, Haines is in Eastern Oregon. I'm actually not a logger by trade but every year we go get firewood and fence materials (posts and poles) on the timber portion (80 acres) of the family cattle ranch. Someday I'd like to train one of our Belgians to skid wood, but until then we use tractors. Thanks for the welcome. ;)
Loggerbabe
One of our sponsors on the left, Menominee saw should be able to help you out with your needs. Its been years since I needed bits for a circle blade but when I did they had EVERYTHING.
WV I'd use 10 degree blades for the sassafras, you can use them on hardwoods such as cherry, walnut and others that are similar in density.
Welcome to the FF Loggerbabe, we have another member or two that are trying to talk their begian into skidding. Ours is more content to recycle alfalfa.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/becky.jpg)
Thanks for the information. We'll check with Menominee this week. The blade is from an old sawmill my dad's uncle used when he built a ski area. When they finished the buildings, he converted it to cut up firewood, and forty or so years of cutting
up hundreds of cords of wood have about used up the teeth that are in it.
Our timber pasture is mostly larch and Fir, with a little spruce and pine. As I mentioned, we mostly use it as a source for poles, posts, and firewood, but we also cut some for lumber, and a neighbor with a Wood Miser mills it on the share.
Thanks Norm
So right now I shoulld only have to keep one kind of blade on hand for most of my cutting .
Norwiscutter,
When I upgraded to a new mill a couple years ago, I asked Timber Harvester about 2 inch blades. They decided not to offer it as an option because, in their opinion, the cutting benefits derived from the 1/2" wider blade didn't offset the added costs. A 1 1/2" blade is only slightly more than a 1 1/4", but a 2", as you mention, is about double. Add the horsepower issue, the wider guide wheels and the deeper shroud area, and it didn't merit the switch for them. May have needed wider band wheels as well, I forget. I took them at their word. If I need assurance of a straight cut in difficult wood (spruce) I get a thicker body (.055") as mentioned earlier and live with the shortened life.
Just a note to let you know we now have teeth! Before we had a chance to contact Menominee, we had a call from a supplier in the Northwest who had been offered a bunch of old stock (new) from a business whose owner had retired after 50 or so years, and there was a lot of obsolete stuff, including Disston C teeth and shanks. So thanks for your input. If anybody else is needing something like that, post here and we'll put you in contact with them. Who knows what sorts of treasures they might have?
Quote from: Norm on January 02, 2005, 05:52:31 AM
..............
.......... we have another member or two that are trying to talk their begian into skidding. Ours is more content to recycle alfalfa.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/becky.jpg)
Patty
Is Becky into the harness yet? Just curious. She and you popped up on the random photo's page. Just checkin it out. Is that a UW-EauClaire shirt, or am I just not reading it clearly?
Y'all hafta know this pretty horse likes chicken......really!
I'm not sure Patty will see this beenthere so I'll tell you that the odds of becky doing any work is the same of me being the next man on the moon. :D
Her tee shirt is bcluw it is an acronym for our local school, Beaman, Conrad, Liscomb, Union and Whitten. When our kids were in school I wanted and extra b for Bangor. ;D
Quote from: Norm on January 25, 2007, 07:40:20 AM
I'm not sure Patty will see this beenthere so I'll tell you that the odds of becky doing any work is the same of me being the next man on the moon. :D
So tell us, Norm. How long have you been in astronaut training. :D :D
Oh about the same amount as becky's been in logger training. :D
The picture is deceiving.... Becky looks so tiny. I am standing in the feed bunk so I can reach high enough to comb her.
She thought about work once, but it gave her a rash.... :D