Just curious for those of you who have completed the entire process of cutting oak into flooring what all you did. I have cut maybe 200 sf of oak into 1" planks. I cut most of it slightly over 4" wide. I will def have to rip them again on a table saw bc of the curve/warp/wave of the wood. Is this normal? I've been pretty pleased with my homemade mill lately, but the planks are far from perfect. They all looked great when I had them cut into 1x12s before I cut them down to the 1x4ish that they are now. They also all had a split near the center that occured nearly immediately after I cut them. I didn't quarter saw bc it is too much flipping for my manual mill. im just curious if it is normal to have to rip them with the table saw off of any other mill after sawing them to widths on mill? Merry Christmas to everyone! I hope everyone has a blessed holiday season!
Thanks!
I saw quite a bit of flooring from time to time. Trailer flooring, barn flooring and house flooring are all different size. I assume by you making 1x4 you are talking about house flooring. I do not make oak flooring into finished product, but rather I sell to folks that do that. They stick it and air dry and then kiln dry before further processing. I am not sure what it is but they figure they will have a % of loss during drying. More so on lower grades of lumber and certain types. I have learned not to try to make hi dollar lumber out of low grade logs. Very good grade oak logs sometimes do not behave while drying. I am guessing that you didnt end seal your logs or lumber to keep the ends from drying too fast.
It is a learning process.
PC
No, I didnt end seal. This tree just recently fell, and I sawed quickly after. Do you have to seal if you are sawing quickly after?
What widths do you normally cut oak flooring. I am really just trying to learn. I'm actually going to put this in my kids playhouse. I figured wider wood cup or split worse? How long do you normally cut? These are all about 8' long.
End sealing is to prevent the log from drying out on the ends before it is sawn, AND the lumber from splitting on the ends when it dries. Stop moisture loss from the ends so the board can dry out through its faces and sides instead of from the ends.
Have you dried the lumber or what's your plan for that.
What kind of flooring are you going to make- T&G?
You just discovered the reason so much flooring is sold in short and narrow runs these days, it's how the defects are removed from the final product. I learned the same lesson the exact same way when I did my first flooring run. The good thing is with 1 x 4 you should be able to make a lot of the bow / wave issues go away between ripping them square and during installation. Pneumatic floor nailers can do wonders when installing less than perfect pieces of flooring. I would think for a playhouse it will come out just fine.
I actually just saw the lumber and sell it to a flooring mill that dries it and mfg's it into flooring. They buy 4/4 which is sawn on a band mill on 1.25''. I guess the boards would be a little less than 1 3/16'' thick? They buy various widths and lengths but require me to seperate species and lengths so I saw my pieces from 8' to 10' long.
As for a tree house floor, I guess you arent going to plane them and maybe not put poly on it, or even if you do, they probably wont need be so perfect, since it probably wont be heated and cooled except by the seasons. Put them down the way you sawed them to go. 4'' boards even will shrink some but will not have as big of cracks as wider boards. I hope we get to see pics of the final product as we like pics.
:christmas:
PC
About 8 - 10 years ago I had access to a dead WO which I cut down, dragged it to my manual mill, sawed it to 1 x 6s x 12s, air dried it for a year, put it in my dry kiln and dried it to about 9%. I was through lifting that tree so I took the dried lumber to a hardwood plant and they ripped it to 4" and about 6' long, T&Ged it, yielding about a 80% recovery. I had someone else put it down in the upstairs of my house. It still looks great. It is wider and longer than the commercially done downstairs flooring and has interesting "defects" done by artistic insects. I much prefer the upstairs job. There will be some waste on the edges and length so be prepared for it to be narrower than 4" Do you plan to do it all your self or cheat a little bit like I did? When it is over and done it will be GREAT and give you a warm fuzzy feeling when you can say "I cut this flooring".
Bob
Georgia, I've done it once but will not do it again too much work. I felled the oaks, milled to ether 4" or 6" wide, air dried, and planed. I did not attempt to fit them with a fine seem. I broke the top edges with an electric hand held planer. When fit they have a "V" at the seem that hides any gaps. Countersunk, screwed and plugged with cherry plugs. Sanded and finished. Looks good and has been fine for 30 years. Frank C.
Not much I can add.
Yes, the wider the boards, the more they will cup. Best to put the "bark side" down if plain sawn. That way any rise should be in the middle of the board instead of the joints.
Are you going to just but them against each other? It would work just fine. There will be some shrinkage as it drys, so it depends how fancy you want it. If you do want to interlock, shiplap is much easier and quicker to pull off in a home shop than tounge and groove. Two passes with a dado blade on a tablesaw and done. ;)
To be honest, it's for a play house for my kids and I'm impatient. I have it stickered and air drying now, but I will probably be putting it down before it has a chance to dry properly. I still would like to get it fairly straight and plane it.
You say cut a straight edge and rip the other. What's the best way? Chalk a line and cut? Attach a straight board to it to run down the fence of table saw? Something else?
Kellog-
Yes, I plan to do it all. It's just my hobby I guess.
Pc-
I will add pictures, but I'll admit I'm not a super wood worker. I like rustic (probably bc it's as good as I can do anyway :D). But I enjoy doing it and I doubt the kids will care.
Tkhel-
I will probably just butt them. I thought about shiplap, but for a playhouse I doubt I go that far. I wouldn't mind doing some like that for a later project though.
Merry Christmas!
In my opinion, a bandsawmill is a good straight line rip machine.
Hey,
Every project is or should be a learning experience, so have fun, do what you want, and if it doesn't satisfy you do it over til it does.
PC
Hi Georgia88! I am in the process of drying some Red Oak for floors in one of my rental properties. (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,98418.0.html (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,98418.0.html)) I have about 400 sq feet stickered and drying outside and have another 600 sq ft left to cut. I'm cutting mine 1" thick and fairly wide with the hopes of ripping them down to 6" wide. (Keeping my fingers crossed on the cupping issue.) I have the rest of the trees staged and ready to be milled but I realized the necessity of having a kiln and took a detour to get that built. Yeah, I seem to have trouble staying focused. :D
Anyhow, I bought a Woodmaster 718 (with Pro Kit) so that I can rip the boards into exact widths and then plane them down to 3/4" boards. I bought the Woodmaster specifically because I can perform all of the necessary steps with one machine. I found a used one on eBay for $2,200 and it came with a whole bunch of molding knives as well. I don't plan to make T&G this time around and will just fit the boards together as tightly as possible.
I'm just doing this for the fun of it and have no expectations of going into business selling hardwood floors. But any money saved by doing this myself is money that I can deduct from the overall cost of this "hobby" and eventually see a break-even point. In the meantime, I'm having a good time and I'm learning a lot.
Good luck!
Jim
It seems that for flooring, you need straighter stock. When it comes off the mill, it should be straight-ish. From there the stacking, and stickering is important to having something that resembles a straight board when the board dries......
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/Photo035_28Small29.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1348425937)
I straight-line edged all of the Cabin wall paneling and flooring on the sawmill after it had dried.
Thanks for all of your input! So, ideally it should be sawn, dried, ripped to size, cut to however it will be used (t&g, shiplapped, etc), and then put down and finished?
Mm-
Is that some of the waste that came off of your boards after it was dried?
Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Yes, that is the pile of edging that generally went from nothing to ~½". We stood about 6 boards hump side up, edged, flipped them over, and edged the other side. LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,47709.msg891158.html#msg891158) Also scroll down to Reply #376.
Not using as flooring, but for wainscoting and cabinets. Water oak. Boards were sawed 4/4 and most were 12"+ air dried for about a year. After that, I put them back on the mill and resawed. To get a very good straight edges, I past the boards on a edger. Then planed them down to true 1" stock. For the wainscoting, I past the boards on a tablesaw with a dado blade for ship lapping.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38788/IMG_1002.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1474391800)
Doors
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38788/IMG_1385.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499711082)
Cabinets and kitchen island.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38788/IMG_1637.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513974669)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38788/IMG_1636.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513974628)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38788/IMG_1406.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1500596645)
It takes a lot of work and even more wood chips/dust that is put out then a saw mill can. :D
That is pretty wood AND work. Is that a cat sleeping in the cabinet in the last picture? Nice.
Bob
Bag, don't own a cat. ;D I'm a dog person. ;D
OK. That bag's got cat ears. ;D
So, about the drying thing.... I was and may still just put this down virtually green and live with the shrinkage bc it's a playhouse and the wife is impatient (truth is I am more). However, I wouldn't mind building something to dry wood quicker. I've asked about a solar kiln before, and I don't think it's what I want. I'm located in a heavily wooded area with little open space and I'm impatient... I've spent the last 3 hours reading about dehumidifier kilns with and without heat. This is prob not the right place to post, but it kinda goes with my project. Plus, most of you that have commented were huge contributors on other posts regarding kilns.
How long would it take for this WO to go from current mc to say 12-15% by simply air drying (in the shade in Georgia)?
How much could I shorten this time with a household dehumidifier kiln? We're prob talking 200-300 sf.
The dehumidifiers don't run 24/7 do they?
Thanks!
I am going to experiment with a "household dehumidifier kiln" in a room in our old farmhouse. If it works I may extend the project to a much large space, our insulated 53 ft trailer. It is something worth trying: We can buy a lot of those inexpensive yet very functional dehumidifiers at Costco or Sams for the price of one "especially designed for wood drying".
Window AC units, cheap as dirt, would in theory do the same thing, but there's no pump to remove the water. With both intake and exhaust in the same cavity, they should function as dehumidifiers.
I would have to do the math on BTUs, energy usage, etc, to see which would be more economical, if the water removal problem could be solved, perhaps with a hvac condensate pump--the complexity starts to sound daunting, making the dehumidifiers from Sams and Costco sound even better.
A Wi-Fi enabled remote monitor reader, in the $50-$100 range could provide remote monitoring of humidity/temp capability. We are getting ready to install those on our refrigeration units at the restaurant to avoid surprises-- we are mainly open four days a week.
Blame Shakespeare: A rose by any other name would smell as sweet....
It parallels what my wife and I have learned in our over 31 years in the restaurant business: Using "inside the box" things for "out of the box" applications.
Just a thought, but are there any kiln owners near by, or close enough by, that you could pay to to dry your wood?
There is a lot if info on air/kiln drying in the Drying and Processing forum.
Briefly, airdrying 1" oak takes a year in NC and it wouldn't be much different in Ga.
Home dehumidifiers (like mine) cannot dry green wood w/o cracking. Once air dried I can kiln dry to 8% in 2-3 weeks.
Bob
Quote from: Southside logger on December 24, 2017, 06:22:40 PM
You just discovered the reason so much flooring is sold in short and narrow runs these days, it's how the defects are removed from the final product. I learned the same lesson the exact same way when I did my first flooring run. The good thing is with 1 x 4 you should be able to make a lot of the bow / wave issues go away between ripping them square and during installation. Pneumatic floor nailers can do wonders when installing less than perfect pieces of flooring. I would think for a playhouse it will come out just fine.
I've installed tens of thousands of sqft of wooden flooring, and I've rarely seen a box that had all straight pieces no matter how expensive it was. There is usually crowning in wooden flooring. We get rid of it by cutting off really bad ends and using as cut/end pieces, and like you say, a flooring stapler will do wonders at straightening out flooring. One good whack and the gap closes and it bends straight most of the time. In fact the very firs thing we would do before we installed was open the boxes and find the straightest pieces. We always like to start with those to build up a good base for 'whack straightening' later lol.
I have plans to mill and make some flooring for the man cave in my house. No rush on it, but will probably start cutting up some oak soon to start drying for that purpose. Threads like this are a big help smiley_thumbsup
Air drying white oak in Georgia will take a minimum of 9 months. I have air dried a lot of it.
Window ac's have a drain pan, run a tube from pan to bucket and Bob's your uncle. You'll corrode the coils and vent the coolant to atmosphere faster than a purpose built unit especially with acidic woods but yes it is the same thing. A home DH or AC would need controls to avoid checking green lumber, it will shrink the surface around the still swollen core too fast if run 24/7. Once AD you can pretty much turn it on and let it run.
So, even with a dehumidifier kiln, 10 months to a year would be about how long it would need to dry? I just do this as a hobby and I have never looked into see who could dry wood around here...
just curious wdh, how long does it take to air dry SYP here in GA? Does drying times vary a lot between species?
Thanks!
Sure does. SYP air dry take about 5-6 months here in Louisiana to get down to around 11%. All depends when I saw it. ;D Red oak and water oak take about a year to get to 11% air dry. Again, it all depends on what time of the year I saw it up. This is only for 4/4. I do keep my stacks thin, about max is 20" and use 1" stickers. I cover my stacks with 28" or 36" metal roofing and nothing on the sides. When I set up a stack, the board ends, I set them east/west. I find that helps drying and keeping any direct sun off the boards. Also, I find it best for air flow too.
In Middle Georgia, green SYP will take about 8 - 10 weeks to air dry to 15% under cover with fans.
QuoteDoes drying times vary a lot between species?
Yes, and climate / season has a big effect too.
White Oak is a slow drying species, it just seems to take a long time for the inside moisture to migrate to the surface and evaporate. And trying to rush the drying will lead to case hardening / surface checking etc (and ruin your wood) Kiln drying should be faster than air drying, but you need some sort of control so you don't dry the wood too fast, although some species aren't as fussy. Pine etc you can basically dry as fast as possible, so that might only be a few days in a high temperature kiln.
Other species like most "cedars" dry quickly, often only weeks to air dry them.
And of course is you live in a cold humid swamp or rainforest, drying anything takes longer.