Is it wise to leave gas in an unused chainsaw over the winter? I have friends who drain their saws and those who don't. The ones who do not drain use ethanol free pure gas and add gas stabilizer as soon as they bring their new gas home. They say this has worked OK for them and that keeps their saw ready to go in case a tree comes down blocking some place where they need to go.
I'm in the non ethanol and leave it in crowd... but I use it on n off year round so no stabil used...
I always left it in with no ill effects, but it was nonethanol too. Now even though I still only use nonethanol, if I know it will be a while before I am going to use one, I keep a couple of cans of the canned gas and fill them with it. It is too expensive to use when using a saw much, but sure works well for storing them.
Quote from: starmac on January 22, 2018, 01:57:49 PM
I always left it in with no ill effects, but it was nonethanol too. Now even though I still only use nonethanol, if I know it will be a while before I am going to use one, I keep a couple of cans of the canned gas and fill them with it. It is too expensive to use when using a saw much, but sure works well for storing them.
Yep good point . I took my MS261CM and 550XP out of winter storage to do some emergency hazard tree removal for a customer .
I filled them with a fresh can of Stihl MotoMix which has a shelf life of 2 years after opened.
So the saws are definitely safe for startup in the spring.
BTW welcome to Forestry Forum FirewoodAl.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20180109_092404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1515535745)
I always wondered what others do. I also late in the fall will use the can gas so if it sits over the winter no harm. However I think gas stabilizer might work as well but have a shorter life span.
Stihl extends their products warranty by a good margin from what I hear if their canned MotoMix is used.
Husky has a deal that if you buy 3 cans of gas when you purchase a new saw it doubles the warranty or something like that, and they don't care if you actually use it or not.
For some reason I thought the Stihl oil had a stabilizer in it.
Last fall I used up my last bottle of Stihl Ultra full synthetic mix oil.
I went to my dealer on the weekend to get more and he says the Ultra mix oil is no longer available in Canada.
All that is available is the orange cap Stihl Premium .
Any other Canadians on here have the same problem?
I just checked Stihl Canada's website and no Ultra...just Premium.
Wonder what that's all about .
The Ultra does have stabilizer in it.
I have a weed eater that I have been using for at least 20 years. I start it in the spring with whatever was left in it.
I get a lot of saws in for repair with old gas. Smells something similar to cat pee , to me anyway.
If it smells old I dump it.
I use the Stihl Ultra because they extended the warranty and it is less smoke and I haven't had any carb problems even in a saw that only gets used 3-6 times a year.
I'm way too lazy to dump it out.
I'll go look for more Ultra this week.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the canned gas is not gas at all, but a synthetic substitute. I also thought it did not matter what brand it was, that it was all pretty much canned at the same place. I do not remember if the dealer told me that, or I heard it some where else. I do know my husky dealer sells two different brands and one is cheaper by a little bit, and they don't care which brand you buy to get the extended warranty, or didn't, it has probably been a year since I have even been to the saw shop.
I think the canned fuel is like synthetic oils. Regular gasoline is a pretty random mix of hydrocarbon chemicals, all around the right molecular weight, and all of them burn. But the exact mix will depend on the refinery / crude supply and how it's blended. They blend the raw fuel to get the desired Octane rating, but what the actual hydrocarbons are will vary, even if the measured octane is the same.
So the issue is that some of the lighter compounds can evaporate, or or others will react with alcohol / water /O2, and break down / form sludge over time. And this is what we call "stale" gas.
The synthetic blend can be made from the pure hydrocarbons of exactly the correct blend to give the fuel you require, without the lighter or less stable components. Hence it can sit in a can, or even fuel tank a lot longer than regular gas can.
I run my saws and chipper once a month.
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 22, 2018, 05:18:39 PM
Last fall I used up my last bottle of Stihl Ultra full synthetic mix oil.
I went to my dealer on the weekend to get more and he says the Ultra mix oil is no longer available in Canada.
All that is available is the orange cap Stihl Premium .
Any other Canadians on here have the same problem?
I just checked Stihl Canada's website and no Ultra...just Premium.
When I bought my saw a couple of weeks back I asked for synthetic and they said they could get it but only in cases of 24 and since they sell very little of it they don't bring it in because very few will pay the extra $'s over the orange top stuff..
I went to another Stihl/Husky dealer across town and they had all kinds of it and said they have it all of the time as the model aircraft club uses it exclusively for their small engines since it is the best thing they found for the money!?..
SO mainly I think it is a 'supply' thing depending on the dealer. @$24 incl. tax for 6 200ml bottles.. and the warranty is doubled to 24 months when Stihl oil - either orange or silver is bought with it..
Now I just have to figure out what bar & chain oil is the best.. orange that I always used or if the Bio or other stuff is better.
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 22, 2018, 04:23:42 PM
Stihl extends their products warranty by a good margin from what I hear if their canned MotoMix is used.
When I bought my Stihl saws this summer the dealer said if I bought the fuel mix or a 6 pack of oil mix they would double the warranty to 2 years. As long as I was not a contractor. Apparently people who use their saws every day are exempt from the warranty. I would think these are the ones who need it most.
Quote from: realzed on January 23, 2018, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 22, 2018, 05:18:39 PM
Last fall I used up my last bottle of Stihl Ultra full synthetic mix oil.
I went to my dealer on the weekend to get more and he says the Ultra mix oil is no longer available in Canada.
All that is available is the orange cap Stihl Premium .
Any other Canadians on here have the same problem?
I just checked Stihl Canada's website and no Ultra...just Premium.
When I bought my saw a couple of weeks back I asked for synthetic and they said they could get it but only in cases of 24 and since they sell very little of it they don't bring it in because very few will pay the extra $'s over the orange top stuff..
I went to another Stihl/Husky dealer across town and they had all kinds of it and said they have it all of the time as the model aircraft club uses it exclusively for their small engines since it is the best thing they found for the money!?..
SO mainly I think it is a 'supply' thing depending on the dealer. @$24 incl. tax for 6 200ml bottles.. and the warranty is doubled to 24 months when Stihl oil - either orange or silver is bought with it..
Now I just have to figure out what bar & chain oil is the best.. orange that I always used or if the Bio or other stuff is better.
Thanks for the info realzed.
That $24 for a 6 pack sounds like dealer cost.
Out here in Manitoba I was charged double that.....must either be a supply and demand thing or our dealers out here have a "sucker" button on their cash register just for me.
I left my 026 with gas in it for about 6 months,the saw always had stihl oil mixed.only had about 40 tanks of total use on it. Pulled it out in the spring flashed it up ran up to temp wot then silence!
Next was a trip to stihl dealer for new ms261c. Im wondering if the oil seperated from the fuel , or perhaps someone used it while I was in the Hospital ,im not sure but now I make sure that the saw doesnt sit with the old gas in it.
Quote from: Weekend_Sawyer on January 23, 2018, 06:35:18 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 22, 2018, 04:23:42 PM
Stihl extends their products warranty by a good margin from what I hear if their canned MotoMix is used.
When I bought my Stihl saws this summer the dealer said if I bought the fuel mix or a 6 pack of oil mix they would double the warranty to 2 years. As long as I was not a contractor. Apparently people who use their saws every day are exempt from the warranty. I would think these are the ones who need it most.
I suspect they believe that a six pack of oil will last the typical home owner longer than the warranty.
What is interesting to me is that there is nothing in the warranty that says they have to use it, or any practical way to test.
So Stihl will replace if under warranty even if the color of the fuel in the tank indicates that it isn't HP Ultra.
Quote from: ZeroJunk on January 23, 2018, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: Weekend_Sawyer on January 23, 2018, 06:35:18 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 22, 2018, 04:23:42 PM
Stihl extends their products warranty by a good margin from what I hear if their canned MotoMix is used.
When I bought my Stihl saws this summer the dealer said if I bought the fuel mix or a 6 pack of oil mix they would double the warranty to 2 years. As long as I was not a contractor. Apparently people who use their saws every day are exempt from the warranty. I would think these are the ones who need it most.
I suspect they believe that a six pack of oil will last the typical home owner longer than the warranty.
What is interesting to me is that there is nothing in the warranty that says they have to use it, or any practical way to test.
So Stihl will replace if under warranty even if the color of the fuel in the tank indicates that it isn't HP Ultra.
I think you could look at it like they are giving you an extra year's warranty for the price of the oil you are buying regardless if you are actually using the product (oil gas or whatever) - it's just like everything else you hear whenever you purchase something these days.. you get asked "would you like to purchase the extended warranty on that?" especially appliances or cell phones or electronic stuff.. so why not chainsaws?
On a side note.. my wife and I lost over $700 by buying extended warranties on a load of Sears appliances we bought at the beginning of our kitchen renovation project this past Summer..
We were told when we asked, that they were 3rd party warranties and would be honored despite Sears on-going problems.. buyer beware..!
My husky dealer will tell you, that you do not have to use it, but you get the extended warranty if you buy it at the time of purchase, also doesn't apply if you are a commercial user.
I myself have never had a problem with a new saw the first 2-3 years of use,maybe even 4 years. I've had 3 new ones,so far. I use mine quite a bit,summer and winter. But I do use the husky oil. Always have,just easier for me. I used sthil too.
I run non ethanol gas also and leave it in, not a fan of running them dry as a little bit of gas will remain in the carb and gunk up for sure. Steve
Like some others I use nonethanol gas and stabilized synthetic oil and the saws rarely go a month unused so no problemas.
Generator though is another issue. My 10 hp generator is 18 years old and i always run it dry. last year for the first time it refused to start after a lengthy layoff. Seems the carb bowl was galvanized steel and had serious rust.
I went ahead and put on a new carb but I'm sure the rust would never have developed if it had stood full of fuel. Another example of what ever you do is wrong.
Have posted about this before.
My 1973 Homelite super xl12 was left at camp all the time from 1988 until 2 years ago with regular pump gas either ethanol or not whatever was available but it started in 4 or 5 pulls every time
I have now retired this saw and may be it is because it is so old it would tolerate any gas.
Our camp saw is now a Husky 345.
Still with ethanol pump gas and no problems so far.
My home saws use this gas too.
Thanks for the info realzed.
That $24 for a 6 pack sounds like dealer cost.
Out here in Manitoba I was charged double that.....must either be a supply and demand thing or our dealers out here have a "sucker" button on their cash register just for me.
[/quote]
I didn't consider it all that cheap - I misquoted.. believe it was $24 plus tax (brain fart again - see what you have to expect and look forward to in 10 more years!). Maybe the salesgirl was overwhelmed by my presence and screwed up the pricing?? - Nah
I always liked and used the Ultra with the stabil cause I forget often... "ah - what was it I was talking about here".. Oh yea - to add it. I usually just dump the out old stuff in the Spring into an old outboard motor and refuel again anyway.
I am wondering what bar/chain oil is best?
Does Stihl have a comparable upgraded synthetic-type of oil for chains and bars? What do you use or finds works best for you?
Mostly it's 3 season use for me - hate Winters now and mostly just do nose-art on the windows until late April when you can start to smell the dog crap outside and the blackflies are swarming up..
Have you tried the Bio-stuff from them? The wife would probably prefer if I and my firewood had the essence of a pack of french-fries verses chainsaw oil, but I'm just guessing here...
Will I need to tweak up my oil pump Flow to the MAX for a 20"bar in your estimation?
Old feeble, yet still inquiring mind here with lots of ??'s obviously..
Thanks - Randy
Haha you're doing pretty good for a 7 post new member Randy. Questions that is smiley_clapping
I'm down to a 3 season man too, very few winter days on the saw now.
I never saw synthetic bar oil before. For years red dyed bar oil was the rage but now Stihl and Husqvarna sell clear.
Which may be another eco friendly thing.
Bio oil I just use plain Canola oil from the supermarket. Low cost, odorless, takes heat better then regular Petro oil and safe for your lungs and the environment. You don't need tacktifier in bar oil. Tacktifiers only stick when the bar/chain is cold, stuff flings right off with the oil after warmed up.
Canola only is used in the saws I use the most. Saws that sit more then they work I leave the Stihl or Husky Petro oil in them.
Then when they sit for the winter I drain out all the canola and put regular bar oil in to prevent oxidation and build up.
Canola may seem thin out of the jug but it actually has more weight viscosity then regular bar oil when the bar/chain gets heated up.
For decades machinists used rapeseed oil as a superior lubricant (now refined to canola).
Canola (Canadian oil low acid). Developed right here in Manitoba in the early 1970's.
Good to read some Manitoba strut goin' on!
Canola - right.. seriously?
I can just see myself strutting into my local grocers chainsaw pants, suspenders, boots, and all, in a huff - hurriedly browsing the isles for oil so I can go a'cuttin.. HA! Priceless..
Good news is - they have longer hours now than any dealer in town so 'running out' wouldn't be as much of a problem as ever before..
Just don't leave canola in a saw in the winter. It can freeze solid and the expansion will pop the filler cap off.
Quote from: Andries on January 24, 2018, 12:08:25 AM
Good to read some Manitoba strut goin' on!
Hello Andries! It's good to hear some another Manitobian.
I'm up north here in Thompson. :new_year:
I lived and worked in Thompson @ the T1 offices in the exploration department for 3 years off and on in the late '60's..
Well - actually worked there - but lived mostly in the Burntwood and Thompson Inns, if you get my drift - HA! Are either of them still standing?
Imagine lots of things have changed there by now - but probably unfortunately, many other things may have not..
Many great people and loads of memories of Thompson, Moak, Gillam, The Pas, Churchill, and places as close yet far away as Shamattawa, Fox Lake and others..
Small World I guess to a point..!
Thanks to everyone for this great information! The things that really struck me to remember:
> Fuel may linger in your carb even when you try to run the saw dry. This could gunk up.
> A totally dry carb may rust easier than one with fuel in it.
> Bad gas will not smell like gas.
> One member runs his saw every month whether he cuts with it or not.
> I'm not the only one who likes to take off from wood cutting duties after the snow flies and sticks.
> Enjoy your fireplaces!
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 23, 2018, 09:54:06 PM
Haha you're doing pretty good for a 7 post new member Randy. Questions that is smiley_clapping
I'm down to a 3 season man too, very few winter days on the saw now.
I never saw synthetic bar oil before. For years red dyed bar oil was the rage but now Stihl and Husqvarna sell clear.
Which may be another eco friendly thing.
Bio oil I just use plain Canola oil from the supermarket. Low cost, odorless, takes heat better then regular Petro oil and safe for your lungs and the environment. You don't need tacktifier in bar oil. Tacktifiers only stick when the bar/chain is cold, stuff flings right off with the oil after warmed up.
Canola only is used in the saws I use the most. Saws that sit more then they work I leave the Stihl or Husky Petro oil in them.
Then when they sit for the winter I drain out all the canola and put regular bar oil in to prevent oxidation and build up.
Canola may seem thin out of the jug but it actually has more weight viscosity then regular bar oil when the bar/chain gets heated up.
For decades machinists used rapeseed oil as a superior lubricant (now refined to canola).
Canola (Canadian oil low acid). Developed right here in Manitoba in the early 1970's.
Funny. I make biscuits with it.
Quote from: ZeroJunk on January 24, 2018, 01:19:05 PM
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 23, 2018, 09:54:06 PM
Haha you're doing pretty good for a 7 post new member Randy. Questions that is smiley_clapping
I'm down to a 3 season man too, very few winter days on the saw now.
I never saw synthetic bar oil before. For years red dyed bar oil was the rage but now Stihl and Husqvarna sell clear.
Which may be another eco friendly thing.
Bio oil I just use plain Canola oil from the supermarket. Low cost, odorless, takes heat better then regular Petro oil and safe for your lungs and the environment. You don't need tacktifier in bar oil. Tacktifiers only stick when the bar/chain is cold, stuff flings right off with the oil after warmed up.
Canola only is used in the saws I use the most. Saws that sit more then they work I leave the Stihl or Husky Petro oil in them.
Then when they sit for the winter I drain out all the canola and put regular bar oil in to prevent oxidation and build up.
Canola may seem thin out of the jug but it actually has more weight viscosity then regular bar oil when the bar/chain gets heated up.
For decades machinists used rapeseed oil as a superior lubricant (now refined to canola).
Canola (Canadian oil low acid). Developed right here in Manitoba in the early 1970's.
Funny. I make biscuits with it.
Be careful what you read about canola on the internet.
There's a couple of conspiracy blogs on the internet written mostly by some women.
They claim canola is very unhealthy and is a Canuck invention controlled by agrochemical giant Monsanto now owned by Bayer.
They sound pretty convinced but only trouble is they have no scientific reference sources to back them up. :D
When I was kid it was lard, then Crisco in a can. Not sure there is any such thing as a healthy biscuit.
I know this is off subject but, Holy cow zero
Biscuits made with lard don't get any better than that.
Healthy at my age healthy don't matter, excellent flavor matters.
Maybe lard in ethanol gas would work.
at least the exhaust would make your mouth water.
Don't forget pie crusts made with lard. I do not pay a whole lot of attention to the health hype on most foods.
Quote from: realzed on January 23, 2018, 08:53:44 PM
Have you tried the Bio-stuff from them? The wife would probably prefer if I and my firewood had the essence of a pack of french-fries verses chainsaw oil, but I'm just guessing here...
Will I need to tweak up my oil pump Flow to the MAX for a 20"bar in your estimation?
Old feeble, yet still inquiring mind here with lots of ??'s obviously..
Thanks - Randy
I've used a couple of different brands of the bio/veggie-based bar oil, but now use the Stihl stuff because it's the only thing I can find around here without a lot of hassle. As I understand it, it's basically canola oil with a few additives. The original stuff I was using would harden up if you left it in a saw that sat too long, so like Holmen Tree, I would run a little petroleum oil through it if I was going to store the saw for a while. The Stihl Bio bar oil doesn't seem to have that problem. It's not cheap, but the use of bio-bar oil is required on one of the properties where I regularly cut firewood, so I just end up using it all the time.
As far as lubricating properties, the reading I've done says it works better than petro-oil, so you can safely turn your oilers down a bit. I've turned the oiler down on my saws, and have not had any problems. So I certainly wouldn't be considering turning it up.
Quote from: HolmenTree on January 24, 2018, 08:37:09 AM
Quote from: Andries on January 24, 2018, 12:08:25 AM
Good to read some Manitoba strut goin' on!
Hello Andries! It's good to hear some another Manitobian.
I'm up north here in Thompson. :new_year:
Always good to pick up on your posts Holmen.
If you've got occasion to wander down to The 'Peg, let me know. I'll buy. :D
On topic: My Stihl 034 and 660 stay working year-round.
Bio=oil in summer and light/medium in winter.
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My son packs away his arborist saws for the winter (he is a climber) with tanks and carbs topped and run for a bit with Aspen fuel.
I'm not so good about running them dry or using something like Stabil or fogging oil .I do however dump the old fuel before a start up if they sat long .
Probably not good but I've got a McCulloch and a Poulan S-25 that didn't need a carb rebuild to after about 35 years .On the other hand I've had and have some that might need a refresh after 5 .Might be the gas,might be the oil don't know .
I run Sunoco GT100 (unleaded race fuel) with synthetic premix in all my 2-strokes and straight GT100 in my 4 strokers. They ALL start right up with zero issues. It's the zero ethanol factor.
The canned mixed fuel I've seen is 95 octane, but I think they also use stabilizer. The per-gallon cost of it exceeds the GT100:oil mix.
In 1989 I went on a moosehunting trip to newfoundland. We got 5 moose over two days. The guides split the moose into halves with a chainsaw using vegetable oil on the bar,not sure if it was canole though.
I have heard of guys using chainsaws on moose here, these days cordless sawsalls are more popular.
local butcher shop used to use the wright gas saw that had a bar going back and forth instead of a chain
Ha Trapper, I happen to know where one of those old wrights are, hadn't thought of a real use for it.
I eat enough "bad" food that I should of been dead 50 years ago. :D
I guy I was with in the navy grew up in Rangely Maine,nearly on the Canadian border .They mistakenly shot a moose right over the line. Drug it into the bush and retrieved it after the sun set .They used a chainsaw to split it .
I do try to avoid it but I have left gas in the saws for a couple months at a time without problems, I do use ethanol free gas almost all the time and I believe the 2 stroke oils I use supposedly all have stabilizers in them. If I know I won't be running a saw for a long time I usually fill up the tank with some shelf stable premix fuel or add some stabil to the fuel.
I always leave gas but my Winters are mild and trees always come down, I run 93 E-free and used to use Opti-2 until I bought my firs new saw, a Stihl MS193t and got the 6pack of oil for extra warranty, probably won't need it but figured since it's good oil why not.
I would imagine that moose meat had a lot of bone some chips in it, and that would be the best part of the moose too. Don't think I would be very happy with a guide who did that, and yes I have quartered more that a couple moose in the woods, it's not that hard.
My "Three- Seasons" are Fall, Winter and Spring; I don't run my saws in the summer, except to cut Cherry and oak into small pieces for the Smoker.
Willard, as always- you are spot on with good advice, as well as everyone else.
I'll try Canola oil, even though it's a product of the Evil Canadian's goal to take over the world (as if you would want to, with Canada possessing about 80% of the world's bounty; been there many times...).
For my official two cents (?) worth on the thread, I leave my saws with the fuel in them (the best gas I can get locally mixed with Stihl Synthetic), and if they start hard, I dump the fuel and replace from the can. I rarely have a problem.
I have not tried to start my new MS261 CM after a prolonged storage duration, so we'll see.
Thanks for a good thread......
I use my 3 saws which see periods of non use of 1-12+ months at times. I use non ethanol gas and Husky regular mixing oil. In fact my Husky 365 has sat unused, with gas in the tank for at least 2 years at times. It still starts on 1,2 or sometimes 3 pulls, but most often 1 or 2.
I was told years ago the 2 cycle mixing oil has a stabilizer in it. I never had reason to doubt it.
When I get into cutting mode it gets used daily for about 8-10 days as I cut my wood supply for the house and the maple evaporator. The last time I used the 365 was when I had a real big dangerous tree to drop last fall, but I have no doubt it will start when needed, like it has for several years. It has a 34" bar with full skip chain and only gets used on big trees or logs.