The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Drying and Processing => Topic started by: DR_Buck on January 26, 2005, 08:51:26 PM

Title: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: DR_Buck on January 26, 2005, 08:51:26 PM
 ???

I'm looking an a possible purchase of a Nyle L200 in the near future.    Should I spring the extra $375 for the powered vents, or just go with the manual ones provided with the basic system?

What benefit will I get from the powered vents?  According to the Nyle literature, they are "automatic over temperature vents"  The L200 is rated at 120 deg F.   Will it actually ever get to an "over temperature" point?

Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Brad_S. on January 27, 2005, 07:33:03 AM
My Nyle is in an old masonary flash freezer, and my vent is the door. :D

Can the Nyle get "over temperatured"? That depends on how well insulated the chamber is, I would guess. I know mine sure can.

In my opinion, power or manual would depend on how closely you can monitor the thing. If you can check in on it a number of times during the day and vent when needed, manual is fine. If you want it to be more self suffient, power up.

As stated, I just use the door, but I only use the Nyle to finish air dried from about 20% to 6-8%, so I have a lot more latitude with conditions without destroying anything. Still, I check it several times a day if I can.
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Den Socling on January 28, 2005, 04:36:09 AM
When controlling a DH kiln, you should have a vent(s) open to prevent the chamber from getting too hot for the wood. The equipment 'overtemperature' isn't the immediate concern. If the wood gets too warm, too much water will evaporate, the DH will run excessively making more heat and the whole process runs out of control.
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Don_Lewis on February 05, 2005, 10:21:32 AM
Try it without the powered vent. It is no more expensive and not much trouble to put it in later. Most people (90% or so) don't need them
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Mike_Doolittle on February 09, 2005, 03:24:43 AM
I don't understand why nile say's that 90%of the people don't need them.  Last spring I started with the Woodmizer version of the L200 and I'm working sith a lot of white Oak.  During the summer I would climb from 120 deg in the morning to over 160 deg by evening...OUCH.  This fall I put in the powered vent kit and it really helps but the quality of the louvers is greatly lacking.  The louvers even closed let way too much air excape!!!  This has been very frusterating!!!  I have put a baffle in front of the intake side and it helps but I still need a better solution.  I'll be calling Nyle soon to discuss this problem but that will need to wait untill I get the flooring made out of the material that came out of the last kiln load.  I might also add that the temp controller for the powered vent system doesn't track with the temp controler on the DH system.  wouldn't there be a way that Nyle could use the same temp sensor to controle both?  I guess that I should add that my chamber is an insulated container.  Those of you that wonder about the R value of these boxes, here is your answer.
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: DR_Buck on February 09, 2005, 11:21:43 PM
Ordered the Wood-Mizer version today.....without the powered vents.   I'll add them later if I need them (when I get some more $$$) ;D ;D 

Den,

Not sure I understand the comment 
Quote
the DH will run excessively making more heat and the whole process runs out of control
    I thought that if temp and humidity reached the set points on the controller, the thing would shut off. ???   Is there something I'm not  understanding about how the controller is supposed to function?   
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Brad_S. on February 10, 2005, 12:30:01 AM
You set the dehumidifier to run for X minutes each hour. The DH will then run for that amount of time reguardless of what the temp is. The temp control knob on the controller is only controlling the aux heater. It has no control over the heat being generated by the compressor, which is why vents are needed. You either need power vents to blow off excess heat automatically or need to monitor the kiln fairly close and manually vent so things don't get out of control. The controller doesn't do any monitoring of the humidity level.

Congrats on the purchase! 8)

Den (or Don)
Given that the compressor will only run for those X amount of minutes it has been set for and then shut down until the next cycle, can it indeed actually spiral out of control as described? ???
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Mike_Doolittle on February 10, 2005, 01:46:31 AM
I'm not Den or Don, nor am I an expert but I do have the woodmizer version.  I'll try and explain how the controls work.  For starters, you set what you want the Min. temp to be to get started. once you reach 80 deg (using the Aux heat) you can start the compressor to take out moisture.  This is done by setting what RH you want the kiln to stay at.  The compressor will then cycle as often and for how ever long it takes to stay within +/- 1 % RH you have chosen.  It has been my experience that the temp will continue to rise above the 80 deg that you originally set it for just from the heat off the compressor and the fan motors.  I have never needed to ever use any Aux heat after the initial start up.  Therfore I have needed to vent at times to stop from the temp getting too high and damaging some wood types.  An interesting note here with Douglas fir, I was even able to get the temp up to 155 deg without any additional heat in the early fall before the nights started getting colder here in Oregon.  So my message here is that to set pitch in fir or pine, it can be done without breaking the bank. A word of warning about venting though is that when you vent you are not only letting out heat but moisture also and that will drop the RH very quickly.  The woodmizer controles let you see this within a few min.  The temp will come down along with the RH.  When I first put in the powered vents, I wanted to test them early one morning and what a fog coming out when that fan kicked on.  One major problem that I am looking for an answer on is the amount of air that escapes through the intake vent when it is closed.  This shouldn't happen and I lose too much heat at times so I need to close the manual outside vent to stop it.  Like I said in an earlier post, I need to get with Nyle and come up with a solution.  Here in Oregon drying white Oak, during the spring through early fall you can go from 120 deg to 140 deg within 8 hours so you really need to watch it or you just made junk in a few hours.
I hope this helps.
Mike
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Brad_S. on February 10, 2005, 02:11:18 AM
Wow, am I confused!

My Nyle doesn't monitor or respond to the RH in any fashion. As mentioned, the compressor is set to run for a set number of minutes per hour based on charts in the manual. Is my unit old and out of date or is WM's version modified?
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Mike_Doolittle on February 10, 2005, 02:43:39 AM
Yes the Woodmizer has an upgraded controler that seems to make things somewhat easier for a novice like me.  I understand that anybody can get it for the nyle, it's just an upgrade.
Mike
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Den Socling on February 10, 2005, 07:39:33 AM
We are talking about different methods of control. Cycle timers are the cheapest, simplest way to turn the compressor on and off. This isn't going to spiral out of control but neither is it controlling the process. RH controllers monitor the humidity and turn the compressor on/off as needed. When we put an RH controller on a DH kiln, a 'process high' alarm follows the temperature set point and opens the vents if/when the kiln is too warm.
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Ironwood on February 10, 2005, 02:08:27 PM
In the future look for unit that can withstand a "killing" heat of at least130-160 range. THIS IS THE BIGGEST DRAW BACK TO MY EBAC LD3000!!!!If I'de only have known! :P
                                                Reid
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: OneWithWood on February 21, 2005, 10:39:45 AM
Would someone please explain the powered vent configuration?  Are the vents separated from the compressor unit?  On the opposite wall?  Where on the wall should the vents be located?  High on the wall?  In respect to the wood stack where is the best location?
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Don_Lewis on February 21, 2005, 11:20:22 AM
The Nyle (and Bailey and TimberKing) standard versions use timer/temperature. The Wodmizer version used temperature and humidiity for control.

The powered vent used with the standard version uses a separate thermostat for the vent. This is because most people don't keep the temp setting at the kiln temperature tp save electricity in running the resistance heater. Usually you only set the heater to get the chamber to 85F and then you don't run the heater again until the wood is dry and then you turn off the refrigeration and raise the temperature setting to what you need (up to 160F for setting pitch)

Both systems work and both systems have strong advocates. Nyle offered the temperature humidity system as an option for many years.

Mike and I have spoken and we are working on his problem. Something doesn't add up. On the one hand his equipment is generating so much heat, the temperature jumps to 160 but on the other hand it generates so little heat that the leakage by the louvers causes it to drop.  We'll solve that one.
Title: Re: Nyle  -  -  Powered Vents or Not ???
Post by: Mike_Doolittle on February 21, 2005, 01:27:34 PM
Hi Don,
I tried to call you today to give you the latest but you guy's are closed.  I guess I'll try and call tomorrow.
Mike