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Health and Safety => Health and Safety => Topic started by: Old Greenhorn on November 14, 2018, 08:46:56 PM

Title: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 14, 2018, 08:46:56 PM
Not sure if this should be here or in the chainsaw forum, but here goes: I finally started wearing chaps about a year ago (I am getting older and more cautious, since I work alone) and I have adjusted to them OK. But when I got them I didn't really shop around for better chaps, I got something reasonably priced and NOT made in china. I have since learned about layer counts, different layering material, and different level of protection. I am not a safety fairy, BUT I am not a fool either. The chainsaw pants look a bit more comfortable for fall/winter use and I am wondering what everybody chooses to wear. When I try to shop and compare, I find that few manufacturers list the actual material they use and exactly how many layers they have in a given product. Those that do, only list it for the higher priced products and not all of their products. It makes it very hard to compare. I have also been told that Kevlar is NOT the preferred material for protection. 
 I can't spend $300 for pants, but $100 is not out of the question. I am looking for some input on what you have, how many layers it has, and what the working material is in it. I'd like to use chaps in the warmer months, but pants in the winter. The chaps flop around and hold a LOT of sweat, I am hoping pants are better. Please share your experiences. Thank You.
Tom
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: thecfarm on November 14, 2018, 09:13:09 PM
Labonville has some chaps. There should be something on thier website about layers. USA made.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: lxskllr on November 14, 2018, 09:16:44 PM
I have the regular Husqvarna chaps, and I'm really happy with them. The coverage is good, as is the price, and they're quick to put on/off. My preferred pants are BDUs/ACUs, and I put the chaps over them. Bottom line, if I were buying tomorrow, I'd get the same thing.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 14, 2018, 09:53:33 PM
I have husky chaps now, but the fact is, you don't know what kind of protection you've got until it's too late. I am looking at the labonville chaps, but really I am shopping for good pants with good protection I can afford, and are comfortable. I am looking for the technical specs so I can make a good decision.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: lxskllr on November 14, 2018, 10:04:51 PM
I'm in bed now, and don't feel like getting up to look, but the Husky chaps are labeled with some kind of certification. See what standard that certification applies to, and that's what they'll be. Off the cuff, I doubt an international leader like Husqvarna's gonna put their name on junk, especially safety gear, but if you wanted to prove it, *$60 and a chainsaw will show you how well they protect.

*I DON'T recommend testing while on your legs!   :^P
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 14, 2018, 10:22:22 PM
Yup, looked at the label and it tells me what standards it meets, but not how it is rated, how it is tested (chain speed), what material is used or how many layers. This is my conundrum.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Andries on November 15, 2018, 12:07:51 AM
Greenhorn:
All the answers to your questions are found here:

Behold Chainsaw Proof Pants in Action - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5VSivQe760) 

Chemical engineers, mechanical wizards and one VERY risk tolerant goof combined their talents - the result is completely cringe worthy!
Enjoy.  :o  :)
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: celliott on November 15, 2018, 05:12:48 AM
If you find chainsaw pants for $100 Id be leery. They are pricey for a reason. The only other option of that type could be labonville pants (they make a lightweight polyester green summer version and an awesome insulated winter version) the pants themselves arent cut resistant but they have a provision to snap in Kevlar pads. Not as much coverage as chaps or other CS pants. Youd be in it around $125 I bet.
Personally I recommend the Labonville chaps. The competition ones are very thick. I wear those most of the time and in winter logging I wear the labonville winter pants with chaps pads.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 15, 2018, 07:24:12 AM
That video was helpful in that I learned that Kevlar is an aramid fiber. I thought Kevlar and Aramid were two different things. Beyond that I am still at a loss. I don't understand why these manufacturers don't just tell you how many layers and what material they use for each model. Seems they only do that for the high end stuff. I would like to get about 8 layers with an Aramid product. Yes, if I got pants they would likely be over $100. but that's ok, it was just a general number. I can't go for $200 or more for the amount of time I spend with them.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Magicman on November 15, 2018, 09:05:37 AM
There are basically three different styles:  Chaps, Apron, and Full Wrap so this choice is yours depending upon your usage.

The safety certifications are:

  • Safety Certifications: UL Certified in Accordance with ASTM F1414-13
  • Safety Certifications: Meets ASTM F1897-2008 Leg Protection for Chain Saw Users
  • Safety Certifications: Meets OSHA Regulation 1910-266 for Logging Operations
  • Safety Certifications: Meets ANSI Z133.1 2012 Standards for Tree Care Operations
  • Safety Certifications: Meets USFS Requirements 11BF
 
You can pay a little or a lot but the Certifications are the same.


My AO chaps have a tag that reads:  Meets ASTM F1897, ANSI Z133.1 and OSHA Regulation 1910-266   UL Certified



Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Ed_K on November 16, 2018, 09:52:32 AM
 I bought the inserts for the winter pants and put them into my carhartt bib overalls with snaps. I can't tell if their 800 or 1000 (I think the word is denier) the Bailey's catalog list's the different types.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: pine on November 16, 2018, 01:45:51 PM
I have a set of Stihl 9 ply that are listed as 9 Ply.
Really like them and have had them for a while. 
Hard to find as the standard Stihl chaps are 6 ply.

I also have a set of Labonville X-treme Competition chaps like them a lot as well and are my backup chaps at this point.
I am a full wrap fan.  Don't really like the straight chaps.  Pros and cons for each safety/comfort. 
Never considered the chain saw pants as they are not for me.

The following comes from the website and lists the plys and the material.

Labonville has been making chainsaw chaps since the mid 60's, and they have set the bar for quality and innovation. Labonville X-treme competition chaps are designed to reduce the risk or severity of injury to your front leg and calf area in the case of a cutting mishap. These chaps have a 1000 Denier covering on both sides, with 10 layers of DuPont KEVLAR and polyester blend for the pad (Standard Labonville chaps come with 6 layers). Chaps come with a 2" adjustable waist belt and 1" adjustable leg straps with quick snap fasteners. Designed to hand wash with non-chlorine bleach detergents and hang to dry.

Just remember even the most expensive pants, chaps, or full wrap are cheaper than one visit to the emergency room.


Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Pulphook on November 17, 2018, 08:57:11 AM
Labonville Full Wrap chaps. On my 3rd pair. Once you cut the Kevlar threads the chaps are useless.
Hey, if they're too hot, don't wear anything under them. 8)
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Old Greenhorn on November 17, 2018, 07:38:53 PM
Thanks everybody for your input. I didn't really get what I was looking for, but in reading my original question I see that I was not clear. First, let me point out that when a product lists specific standards it doesn't really give you the whole story. Many (most or all?) of these standards have various levels and classifications; i.e. 'Level 1, class 2a' . You need to read these specs to really understand them and know what you are buying. I am a retired Fire Service Instructor and part of my job was doing just that to interpret many standards and boil them down for the front line firefighters and officers to understand. So when you buy something and it says it complies with a certain standard, that is only a small part of the story. Usually it means it meets the minimal level of the standard unless they state otherwise (some of those mentioned here actually do just that). These standards are complex and rarely a "pass" or "Fail" type of thing, actually pretty much never.
 This is why I was asking for specific layer counts and materials, to avoid the vastly complex confusion of standards. Having said that, I learned some things here and got turned on to some new sources, so that is good.
 What I didn't really make clear is that I am focused on looking for pants. I have chaps, I like them. I will probably get better ones in a year or so based on some of the stuff I learned here (and my ability to wear out my current pair), but I am looking for pants and wanted 'on the ground, wear them every day' experiences to help guide me. 
So, any pants users out there?
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: John Mc on November 20, 2018, 04:34:15 PM
I'm not sure that just a "layer count" even begins to tell the whole story. More layers of an inferior material or construction doesn't necessarily translate to better protection.

I had a pair of Husqvarna pants years ago that were intended to be summer weight. I liked them, but out-grew them (since I seem to be growing "out" these days). I've not replaced them yet. They have some new designs since I bought mine. A Game of Logging instructor in my area has a pair of their Husqvarna Technical Hi-Vis Pants, and absolutely loves them. However, they retail for about $230. I've not seen their current model of lower-end "Classic" chainsaw pants, nor do I know anyone who uses them. They retail for about $150.

Pfanner makes some great chainsaw pants, but they are all up around $300.

I generally wear good, full-wrap chaps in the fall/winter/spring (they protect a full 360˚ around your lower legs). I used to have some of the apron chaps (which only protect the front 180˚ of your lower leg) for summer time use. I ended up getting rid of them. I now wear my full wrap chaps year round. They are too hot for me in the summer, but since I'm not doing this for a living, I have the luxury of just not using a chainsaw when it gets too hot out.

When my current Husqvarna Full-wrap chaps are ready for retirement, I'll probably go with either the Husqvarna Technical Hi-viz pants, or one of the Pfanner pants models. THey are expensive, but from everything I've heard online and talking to people who wear them regularly, they are both great, and the ventilation is enough that they use them in the summer as well.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: stanmillnc on November 20, 2018, 05:37:47 PM
I've got the Husqvarna chaps as well and they are great - comfortable, fit your average frame body size well and easy to take on and off. The material seems really durable and although I haven't tested them, I would be confident they would protect my legs. Got them at northern tool Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company on sale and used a coupon from their regular circular - final price was around $75; a good value in my opinion.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Pulphook on November 20, 2018, 07:00:42 PM
Comment about chaps sizing : Measure from hip to instep, NOT crotch length as for pants.
Most of us non pro loggers ( 6-8 cords firewood/yr, trail work, blowdowns, cutting with friends, etc...)  prefer chaps. Unlike pants you know for sure the protection. And they're easily removed if you get hot and then doing the 1/2 of the harvesting that's non saw work.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Ianab on November 20, 2018, 07:32:00 PM
And they're easily removed if you get hot and then doing the 1/2 of the harvesting that's non saw work.


True, and if do end up sawing in the heat, then you can at least wear shorts under chaps, and get some ventilation. Summer is usually the busier time for logging here as there is less mud. I know other folks log in the winter when the mud has frozen, but we don't get that cold. Here it's just wet and miserable in winter.  

One of the Aussie guys posted in another thread about why they don't wear chaps / pants when sawing. Sure there is some risk of injury, but if they suit up properly, they die of heat exhaustion by lunchtime, and there was a higher risk of dying from that.:-\
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Pulphook on November 21, 2018, 04:06:55 PM
Those Aussies with their collection of venomous snakes and heat.  ::) No protection ?
Just be sure to strap chaps ( full wrap preferable ) securely.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Andries on November 21, 2018, 10:48:30 PM
. . . . but I am looking for pants and wanted 'on the ground, wear them every day' experiences to help guide me.
So, any pants users out there?
yep, I wear pants everyday - keeps the sawdust from getting' in my personal places.  :D
Kidding aside, I picked up a pair of Pfanner 'Ventilator' pants about three months ago.
They get pulled on at the start of every day that the saws will get used, and even days when the saws stay in the truck.
Comfortable, tough and cool in the heat.
I've taken to wearing long johns underneath them now that winter has kicked in.
The material in them is rated for pro use in Europe, and has been for quite a few years.
Since I don't ever want to test the cut resistant, I'll trust the techies over there.
Cost is about the same as three pairs of Carharts.
so, they better last about 4 or 5 years for this to work out.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Here2Learn on May 05, 2020, 12:59:58 AM
Sorry to reply to an old thread, especially as my first post here, but thank you for the video link posting by Andries. My assumption of what chaps were for was WAY off. That made it very clear. Thank you.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: thecfarm on May 05, 2020, 05:53:56 AM
I just saw another thread dated back in 2011.  ;D
Lots of old thread to learn from. Lots of new ones too.
Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Dale.NZ on September 03, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
If I could add one thing to the conversion for anyone looking over it at a later date is a bit of a breakdown on saw protection standards in chaps.

The key thing to keep in mind re: differing standards is that it's hard to compare say EN standards with NA standards. However, in my mind, a key driver to quality comes from chainspeed that can be stopped / time (i.e: mtrs/ sec or ft/ min).

The breakdown of NZ protection classes is: Class 1 at 20 m/s, Class 2 at 24 m/s and Class 3 at 28 m/s

NA gets a little complicated but here's what I found (source - https://blog.goclogger.com/the-clogger-guide-to-global-chainsaw-protection-standards (https://blog.goclogger.com/the-clogger-guide-to-global-chainsaw-protection-standards/) [clogger = NZ supplier or protective work-wear]"Unusually, Worksafe BC Schedule 8-A, section 8.21 allows for four different ways of complying with the cut test requirements:
3600 ft/min when tested using the test rig for WCB PPE 1 1997
3300 ft/min when tested according to ASTM F1414.
EN381-5 at the chainspeed level of 24 m/s
ISO 11393-2 (same as EN381-5) at the chainspeed level of 24 m/s.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Old Greenhorn on September 04, 2020, 07:27:57 AM
Thanks for the addition, that is useful information. Where were you when I posted this question 2 years ago? :D Since many of us use the forum to look stuff up, adding infor like this even to old threads can be very helpful to someone later.
 Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: moosehunter on September 05, 2020, 09:21:15 PM
The first chainsaw safety course I took was at a local saw shop. The instructor/ shop owner took everyone outside to demonstrate safe starting procedure, safe bucking on the ground then safe bucking on saw bucks. He changed saw sizes a couple of times to demonstrate of much faster a bigger saw can cut. Using a large saw, I think maybe a 440 or so he sawed off a piece of firewood and without warning or preamble spun to his right at wide open throttle and ran the saw into a pair of chaps strapped to a log. It was a big " aha" moment for many in the audience. That chain stopped RIGHT now! He shut off the saw and left it hanging on the chaps. Turned and looked at his students and asked " any questions about if you should wear chaps"? I never wore or owned a pair of chaps before that. I never go in the woods without after that.
But back to the pants question,... I will buy a pair someday. My GOL instructor had them and they look more comfortable to me.
mh
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: Old Greenhorn on September 06, 2020, 08:25:58 AM
BTW, as a follow-up. I did wind up getting Elvex pants and I like them just fine. Been using them for about a year and a half now. They are a bit warm in the summer, but I don't cut on 90 days if I can help it and I wear them on any planned cutting days.  You get used to them after a while and when I quit for the day I am not anxious to get them off. For incidental cutting I use the chaps that I always have handy, but I prefer the pants for real work days. The chaps are so much hotter than the pants.
Title: Re: Chainsaw chaps or pants question
Post by: John Mc on September 06, 2020, 08:52:55 AM
I had a pair of Husqvarna pants many years ago. They were quite a bit different design than what they are selling now. I liked them, but eventually outgrew them (and unfortunately, not because I'm growing "up" anymore.)

I've been thinking of trying to Pfanner Gladiator Ventilation pants for a while now. Unfortunately, the only option in my area is mail order. I'd really like to try them on first.