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General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: Knute on March 24, 2019, 09:36:47 PM

Title: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Knute on March 24, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
24" red oak hung up in white oak by branch about 6" in diameter. Do you think I can bust that limb with 12 ga. slugs to bring it down? If so, how many do you think it will take? I'll try to add a couple of pictures which are a little fuzzy.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19354/IMAG0199.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1553477178)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19354/IMAG0198.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1553477127)
 
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Southside on March 24, 2019, 09:45:32 PM
What's down range when you miss? 
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Hooterspfld on March 24, 2019, 10:02:07 PM
Think, I'd be more likely to attempt to drop the white oak and drop them both at once. . Looks like the lean and weight of the red oak combined with maybe a 20-25 degree lean from the white oak are both headed in the same direction. (hard to judge by the pictures though). Curious to see what the pros here suggest.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: doc henderson on March 24, 2019, 10:07:55 PM
can you throw a chain on the base of the stump and winch it back to pull it out of the tree.  a come-along might work if you cannot get in there with equipment.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Hans1 on March 24, 2019, 10:41:04 PM
I had a nice veneer walnut locked fork to fork with a big bur oak. I could pull the but of the walnut way off the ground but wouldnít come out. The bur oak was a giant old wolf tree and I didnít want cut it. I shot the walnut  limb with a 45/70 took about 8-10 shots but got it.  
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: doc henderson on March 24, 2019, 10:44:54 PM
that sounds like more fun anyway! fudd-smiley
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: hacknchop on March 24, 2019, 10:49:52 PM
I usually just keep cutting em down until it works or I get to a clearing or field .
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Texas Ranger on March 24, 2019, 11:16:10 PM
I have cut 5-6 inch sweet gum limbs with a .22 rimfire with a scope, not much over penetration if you watch your shots.  The whole idea is to break up fiber.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Woodpecker52 on March 25, 2019, 12:24:48 AM
Dilbert says just shimmy up the trunk of the red oak and cut with a chainsaw after you tie off a rope around your waist  and unto the white oak. Carry an extra rope to lower yourself down and carry a cell phone to call 911 if this does not work out right.  Or You could just let nature take care of it in about 3 years.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Riwaka on March 25, 2019, 05:27:48 AM
I would not want to guess where the weight and tension is off pictures. 
If the white oak has a rotted out center things could get interesting.

Deluxe Pocket Saw | Camp Tools | Coghlan's (https://www.coghlans.com/products/deluxe-pocket-saw-8304)  (various 'pocket saw chains' to put on long ropes)

det cord

safe T cut explosive clamp overhead powerlines tree removal (http://www.brexco.co.uk/products/powerlines/)   (safe-T cut - clamps det cord onto up to 12 inch branches etc) 

Fiberglass Hot Sticks ? Fiberglass Spline Hot Sticks, Telescopic Sticks, Shotgun Sticks, Ground Operable Telescoping Hot Sticks (http://www.fiberglasshotsticks.com/)   (hot stick - up to 50 feet height) to get the clamp up to the branch)


Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Firewoodjoe on March 25, 2019, 05:40:14 AM
Is the tree cut or blown over? If itís only on one limb on one side it should role off if the hing is cut free.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Old Greenhorn on March 25, 2019, 07:06:20 AM
Is the tree cut off at the stump? If not, do this first, it may just roll off, or drop enough that you can cut saw logs. If it is cut, you might want to try the 'post in a hole' method. Bore a rectangular mortise through the base of the tree about 4x6 inches, the shove a timber in the mortise about 8 feet long. Attache a chain to the end of the timber and give it a tug. This could make it roll. Without standing on the ground it is tough to call, looks like it is still attached, or is that other fork hung up too?
In my younger and dumber days, we tried to cut down a 6" half rotten maple at hip level with .45's. It took about 500 rounds before we could push the tree over. (don't ask what led to this)
It could be worse, it could look like this:


(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/DSCF1474.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1553511736)
 
That photo was taken after I removed the first of the 4 trees all hung together, leaving only the 3 tough ones. Took me a while, but I got them all down without any heavy equipment.
Be very careful cutting off at the stump, the tension and compression is very hard to figure on theses trees. Use bore cuts to make it safer, have a second saw available, just in case.
 What type of equipment do you have to work with?
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Crusarius on March 25, 2019, 07:41:11 AM
Can you just hook something up and pull it sideways? I know all the ones I stuck like that I was able to just rock them back and forth by hand and finally get them to drop. took alot of energy but it worked.

I have done what many have said and tried to shoot a tree down. It takes alot of lead to do it. 
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Simple Jack on March 25, 2019, 11:40:25 AM
I find this a little funny, because I had a white oak hung up last week! My first tree dropped right where I wanted it to. second tree was going to lay right next to the first until limbs caught on another tree and changed the direction of how the tree was falling, got hung up in two trees. I had to cut another one down to get close to the ground. I tried lifting the trunk with the skid steer to see if it would slide a little, just wasn't going to happen. Ground is now too wet to get them out, going to have to wait until May or June to get them out now.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Knute on March 25, 2019, 03:03:51 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I may need to try different things to get it down. It is completely cut off the stump but won't roll because of some other smaller branches in nearby trees. Will try to pull sideways first. Then maybe jack up the butt, put some slabs under it and pull. I know if that branch lodges in the white oak crotch I won't pull it down. Using an Allis Chalmers D-17 which is about 57 hp.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Old Greenhorn on March 25, 2019, 03:39:36 PM
 Then maybe jack up the butt, put some slabs under it and pull. I know if that branch lodges in the white oak crotch I won't pull it down. 
Just a word of warning here for you to consider. Again, I can't see the tree or guess the loading, but there is a high probability that if you jack up the butt, as soon as it is free of the ground it will slide back, flip your jack, etc. This could be very hazardous. You are going to need one heck of a jack. I tried jacking a log that size once to get out a pinched saw, gave up after I had humped my biggest floor jack down in the woods, set up planks under it, and could not budge it.
 Just saying, be very careful here, there are LOTS of different forces working here, many are against you. Besides, we all want to hear the rest of the story. ;D :D :)
Perhaps scratching out a hole in front of the butt giving it a place to slide in would work. Not sure what you have on that tractor, I you could do that, you might be able to pull it into the hole.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Firewoodjoe on March 25, 2019, 07:12:32 PM
If u till it sideways put your hook or choker bell on top and opposite side of the direction u pull it will roll it rather than just drag it. Good luck.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: barbender on March 25, 2019, 07:32:55 PM
I shot a snagged fork down with 12 ga 3" duck loads once. Took a few shots, but I didn't have to worry about what was down range as much. There's no way I'd be shooting a rifle up in the air .
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Knute on March 25, 2019, 09:10:33 PM
Thanks. I can try digging out under the butt and put some slabs under it to slide on. Frost is coming out so it may sink somewhat now. Will let you know when I get it down, but may take awhile. I have had a couple of other large trees hang up over the years that I just left, but would like to get this one since it is hanging over my woods road.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Old Greenhorn on March 25, 2019, 09:32:07 PM
Just take your time. If it isn't going right, walk away, think about it some more, and come back tomorrow and try something else. That snag I showed you above took me 3 weeks to figure out, but I didn't get kilt, so it all worked out. Be patient, the tree will wait on you.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Riwaka on March 26, 2019, 02:37:26 AM
Could always put some hazard tape around the area, to reduce the chance of someone walking under the tree too.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: thecfarm on March 26, 2019, 05:57:42 AM
A 57hp tractor should help. And a long chain.  I have a 3 pt winch on my tractor. I run the cable out and that keeps me away from the danger point. I have seen the butt of them trees come up in the air before they give up their grip way up high. Than they come down and bounce up in the air.
Got the idea about a long chain now??
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: W5E2J on March 26, 2019, 07:46:31 AM
Your idea of pulling straight is probably the best. As others have said get the longest chain you can find. The limb will drop in the crotch of the white oak and unless the crotch breaks you will not be able to roll it like some have suggested. Try to be 20 or more feet away with your chain when pulling, as what the tree will do when it drops is very unpredictable. Stay safe.  W. Jones
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: doc henderson on March 26, 2019, 07:58:07 AM
I have a 83 foot. half inch chain just for such an occasion.  Nylon straps are safer, or even cable.  I usually put chain on the tree so it does not ruin my strap, then convert to strap towards the vehicle.  You can borrow my chain if you pay the shipping.  :)  pulling with a dump truck with the bed up, can help protect the man in the cab.  if it won't drag out of the crotch, attach half way up the tree to apply tension to almost stand the tree back up.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: WDH on March 26, 2019, 08:22:21 AM
I have a friend that wanted to pull up a stump and decided to do it with his Ford Bronco.  Hooked a chain to the stump, then a tow strap from the back of the truck to the chain.  Could not pull it up just applying direct pressure, so decided to back up a little to put some slack in the chain and the strap and get a running start.  He did, and the tow strap acted like a big rubber band.  When the chain broke, the rubber band tow strap slammed the chain into the back window, shattering it, then the chain climbed over the top of the vehicle, denting the top all the way from back to front, then busted out the front wind shield, then over the hood denting it all the way to the grill :).
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Crusarius on March 26, 2019, 08:26:12 AM
it is always fun watching ppl try to pull stumps with trucks. seems the bigger the truck the dumber they are.

Hopefully I did not anger anybody with that statement. Just what I have observed.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: doc henderson on March 26, 2019, 09:11:41 AM
I agree.  I added the strap to get me another 30 feet away.  I tug, or pull tension.  A chain will and has killed people.  when we used to pull stumps, we ran the chain over an old wheel to give "up" pull on the stump.  just a rocking motion.  good for stumps of dead trees up to about 1 foot diam.. A 12 inch ERC tree broke a 1/2 inch chain for me once, so you have to test the waters.  I found the edge of a stump underground digging to place a wall,  It jarred my kidney hitting it with a skid steer.  It turned out to be about 4 feet square.  cut out 1 cubic foot at a time.  This is when my stihl dealer recommended I borrow a neighbors saw for jobs like that.   :D  even without the strap, a chain alone may wind up in the cab if you hit hard enough.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Southside on March 26, 2019, 09:54:26 AM
Is there anyone around with a skidder that you can pass a $100 bill to and have him pull it down?  Not to be blunt but shooting in the air with rifled slugs, jacking a widow maker, placing slabs under it, yanking on it with a long chain are all really good ways to end up in the local paper either in one section or another and neither is a good place to be.   
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Hilltop366 on March 26, 2019, 11:45:26 AM


With no winch I would try pulling with the tractor first, with a long enough chain to keep yourself safe. To me a chain is the safest option because it does not spring back at you if it fails.

Doc's putting the chain over a wheel may help get the tree moving or a notched section of log on end starting with the log leaning back towards the tree.

You probably already know to keep the pulling point on the tractor low enough to avoid flipping the tractor but I would feel bad if something happened and I had not said anything.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: charles mann on March 27, 2019, 12:20:56 AM
used a 22LR many times to get a tree out of a tree, and unintentionally shot a limb supporting my lock-on stand 1 day with a 308. granted, as SSL said, not the best way, but if there are no dwellings around for a mile and your scope it truly zeroed, it shouldn't take many rounds to cut the limb. 
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: LeeB on March 27, 2019, 02:43:45 AM
I have a hung up pine I need to get down. I cut it free of the root ball to no avail. Thought about cutting the oak it is hung in but could see no way to do it safely. Having no desire to make an early exit from this world I ditched that idea. It's only hanging in the crotch formed by a nub and the main trunk of the oak. The nub is from a long ago broken branch the has since heal over is is maybe 8" long. Shouldn't take much to roll it off but due to location there is no good access with equipment. I considered wrapping a chain and pulling that to get it to roll. I think I like the idea of adding a lever instead for a torque arm to make the required pull less. It was blown down in a tornado that luckily jumped over the house. We've had two more high wind episodes since then and I had hoped it would come on down but no such luck. Lost several more tree but that one likes it's new home.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: Peter Drouin on March 27, 2019, 05:57:33 AM
Cut the W oak. If you're afraid of a barber chair rap a chain around the base of the W Oak. Above the notch.
That's what I'd do. Good luck
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: LeeB on March 27, 2019, 06:59:29 AM
Peter,
I'm not afraid of the oak. It's the pine that has me worried. being able to get out from under it and its branches when it starts coming down. Good point about the barber chair though.
Title: Re: Red Oak Hung Up
Post by: doc henderson on March 27, 2019, 08:35:21 AM
this one may be the case for a come along and a long rope, strap, cable, chain.  be safe