The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Bindian on May 28, 2019, 12:17:06 AM

Title: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 28, 2019, 12:17:06 AM
Within two years, I will be building  a log home.  I'll build the front door out of Hickory.  Two weeks ago, I had to cut down a beautiful Hickory tree.  Now, should I cut it into boards now and stack and sticker to store above my barn shop, or just keep the log off of the ground for up to two years?
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: WLC on May 28, 2019, 12:45:18 AM
I'd saw it now, stack and sticker.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Weekend_Sawyer on May 28, 2019, 07:05:57 AM
I'd cut it now and cut it a little thick and stack and sticker it with a lot of weight.
You never know what hickory wants to do, I haven't cut a lot of it but what I have noticed is that the bigger the tree the straighter the wood when you mill it.
I recently cut a 12" and it cupped in 2 different directions on the same board!!!
I wound up using it for smoking wood.

Jon
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 28, 2019, 10:01:53 PM
Thanks Guys!  I cut it ASAP.
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 28, 2019, 10:06:52 PM
Will 7 degree blades saw it, or will I need a blade in another degree? 
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: nativewolf on May 28, 2019, 10:13:02 PM
PPB love hickory so be sure to spray boards with borate.  Another reason to saw.  A reason not too would be that Hickory stains badly in hot weather.  For this reason there is generally no commercial hickory log sale from May to September.  
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 29, 2019, 01:55:15 AM
PPB love hickory so be sure to spray boards with borate.  Another reason to saw.  A reason not too would be that Hickory stains badly in hot weather.  For this reason there is generally no commercial hickory log sale from May to September.  
What is PPB?  Never heard of it down here in Texas. 
 I had to cut it down ASAP, as it looked like it was gonna uproot onto my friend's trailer.  He has phobias of leaning trees, as Harvey uprooted one on his RV trailer.  We were out in Harvey's full force trying to get the tree off of his RV, while trying to keep my 4WD Mahindra from sinking up to the axles, then tarping the trailer.......................not fun at all.
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: LeeB on May 29, 2019, 02:10:23 AM
Powder Post Beatles, and they do exist in Texas.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Weekend_Sawyer on May 29, 2019, 07:37:35 AM
Will 7 degree blades saw it, or will I need a blade in another degree?  
hugs,  Brandi
I cut mine last year using a Woodmizer 7 Degree blade on my Norwood manual mill. I had no problems. It was a pretty big tree and straight I got 5 9' saw logs out of it.
Jon
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 29, 2019, 07:44:13 AM
Powder Post Beatles, and they do exist in Texas.
But do they exist in Southeast Texas with all our humidity?  We have Pine Burrow (Bore?) Beetles here big time.
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 29, 2019, 07:46:37 AM
Will 7 degree blades saw it, or will I need a blade in another degree?  
hugs,  Brandi
I cut mine last year using a Woodmizer 7 Degree blade on my Norwood manual mill. I had no problems. It was a pretty big tree and straight I got 5 9' saw logs out of it.
Jon
Thanks.  I found another thread on Turbo 7s and others cutting dry and green Hickory.
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: WDH on May 29, 2019, 08:00:10 AM
Powderpost beetles love the South.  Nativewolf's advice to spray with borate is spot on.  Like has been said, it if is hot with no air flow, hickory will blotch with an ugly gray stain.  Also saw it soon as the ambrosia beetles also love hickory and will riddle the log with little black lined holes.  Powderpost beetles only infest the dry lumber whereas ambrosia beetles infest the green log. 
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Raym on May 31, 2019, 04:15:44 AM
Sorry to pop your balloon but I would not build your front door out of any wood much less hickory. As a builder I do not recommend even installing commercially made wooden doors but if a customer insists, they must sign a wavier. The problem is that the margins required for an entry door are very small and the slightest movement will result in unconditioned air making its way inside an otherwise "tight" house. If you install a wooden door, it WILL move, warp, twist, all the bad things......you cannot avoid this as you have one side conditioned and the other exposed to outside elements.

I would suggest use your hickory for a feature barn door inside and install a commercial fiberglass or steel exterior door.
Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 31, 2019, 06:56:16 AM
Sorry to pop your balloon but I would not build your front door out of any wood much less hickory. As a builder I do not recommend even installing commercially made wooden doors but if a customer insists, they must sign a wavier. The problem is that the margins required for an entry door are very small and the slightest movement will result in unconditioned air making its way inside an otherwise "tight" house. If you install a wooden door, it WILL move, warp, twist, all the bad things......you cannot avoid this as you have one side conditioned and the other exposed to outside elements.

I would suggest use your hickory for a feature barn door inside and install a commercial fiberglass or steel exterior door.
Just my opinion.
Thanks for you input.  But there are several ways to build a door that can minimize what you have waivers signed for.   Challenge accepted.
    hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: LeeB on May 31, 2019, 07:30:53 AM
 :snowball: 
:D popcorn_smiley
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 31, 2019, 12:35:33 PM
PPB love hickory so be sure to spray boards with borate.  Another reason to saw.  A reason not too would be that Hickory stains badly in hot weather.  For this reason there is generally no commercial hickory log sale from May to September.  
Can I use a solution of water and Borax, the 20 Mule team variety?  I found how to use it here.... https://www.hunker.com/13425952/how-to-treat-wood-with-borax
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on May 31, 2019, 11:35:24 PM
I have 2006 square feet of hickory flooring in my shop.  Should I spray it with borax also?
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: LeeB on June 01, 2019, 12:06:05 AM
That would stop any new infestation but won't help if they are already there. Not sure what the water will do to the boards as far as warp/cupping goes depending on how dry it already is. Some of the others will have to chime in on this. 
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: nativewolf on June 01, 2019, 06:34:38 AM
Will 7 degree blades saw it, or will I need a blade in another degree?  
hugs,  Brandi
I cut mine last year using a Woodmizer 7 Degree blade on my Norwood manual mill. I had no problems. It was a pretty big tree and straight I got 5 9' saw logs out of it.
Jon
That's a nice tree.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: tacks Y on June 01, 2019, 07:17:57 AM
I put a fiberglass door on my house when I built it, lasted 10-15 years. Now I have an oak door I made, just as old and still good. I made my door with 3 layers of oak not single 2". Go for the hickory.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Don P on June 01, 2019, 08:48:40 AM
Most of us use a borate solution which is DOT, disodium octaborate tetrahydrate. The old USN mix was borax+boric acid heated in water until it goes into solution. The easy way to get that combination is to use Timbor. This works well on green wood and is EPA listed for that use. The cheaper and more readily available way is to use the chemically identical ag boron amendment Solubor at a rate of 1 to 1.5 lbs/gallon of water. Dipping the wood is best but you can spray or roll it on heavily. A drop or two of liquid soap helps break he surface tension and helps it flow on.

If the wood is dry a glycol helps wet the fibers and deepen penetration, ethylene glycol, anti-freeze, is the glycol used in the listed solution Bora-Care but any glycol will work, RV antifreeze is low tox and performs similarly. Rewetting dry wood risks relieving drying stress and causing distortion. If the wood is not yet machined that can be viewed as a stress relief. If the flooring is already machined the risk of damaging the finished product is high.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: OffGrid973 on June 04, 2019, 04:55:01 AM
Not much on here about the type of wood , so I wanted to add my experience with hickory (heavy).  The slabs I cut three years ago never were purchased by anyone, most likely have some beetle character and will become firewood later this week during the yearly cleanup.  

If its a go regardless, then get it up off the ground to avoid any staining, (unless that is what you are going for) and buy some heavy hardware. If your design allows for double or triple layer door you can cut thinner and build quicker, plus allows for easier manipulating if needed during setup/glue-up.

Spar varnish (marine grade) always great for a top coat...good luck.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: tacks Y on June 06, 2019, 12:33:46 PM
Some one asked for a pic of my door. The edge shows the 3 layers of oak, instead of a 2" single board. The center was wormy oak tree I cut. Otherwise I made it like any other door. It has stayed straight with the 3 layers.
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31743/100_0957.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1559838619)
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31743/100_0956.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1559838646)
 The raised panels are layered also with the board joints staggered.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Weekend_Sawyer on June 10, 2019, 09:46:10 AM
Will 7 degree blades saw it, or will I need a blade in another degree?  
hugs,  Brandi
I cut mine last year using a Woodmizer 7 Degree blade on my Norwood manual mill. I had no problems. It was a pretty big tree and straight I got 5 9' saw logs out of it.
Jon
That's a nice tree.
It was a magnificent tree and I wouldn't have taken it down but I noticed it the year before as it was dropping leaves earlier than expected. The next spring it was dead. I had a logger doing a harvest and he dropped it and bucked it for me.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Brad_bb on June 10, 2019, 10:23:49 AM
Consider using 4 band if you have it.  It will take a smaller bite and is all I can use with my mill (19hp kohler engine).  Hickory is so darn hard and around knots or grain direction change, can make the balde want to ride up or down.  Dry hickory is the worst.  Really hard to band saw.  7 requires more HP, and likely more prone to waves in hickory.  I've sawn a couple green and one dry hickory barn beam that was like sawing concrete and dulled a band in one pass.

If you build a door and you glue up, if you're using titebond glue, use the original.  Don't use Titebond 2 or 2.  They have more tendency to creep (soften and let the wood move) when heated by the sun.  Original titebond is better for that. Also, will you have an all glass storm door in front of the wood door?  Such a situation, with sun shining on it, can raise temps in that space like a green house.  It would be better if it could let heat escape and not get so hot.

I recommend getting Timbor or Solubore.  Spray your wood as soon as it's sawn.  If adult PPB lay eggs in the wood, it would be months before you'd see the larvae boring and by then they'd be in the wood.  The only way to kill them in the wood is kiln sterilization.  So you want to prevent them from getting in the wood in the first place by spraying right off the mill.  Your T&G that is inside, is the building they are in sealed like a house?  Will it prevent adult beetles from coming in and laying on the wood?  If it's a floor that is installed, and it has a finish on it, a film finish like oil based urethane or water based urethane, then a film finish will prevent adult PPB from landing on it, tasting the wood startch and then laying.  If they don't taste wood starch, they won't lay on it.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: samandothers on June 10, 2019, 10:26:02 AM
@tacks Y (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=21743) 
Your layered oak was only in the rails and styles correct?
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: btulloh on June 10, 2019, 10:39:34 AM
I would not use PVA glue on that type of door. Probably better off with some type of urea resin glue. Resorcinal.

Just my .02

ADD:  Actually Weldwood (urea resin glue) would be fine.  If the door will be immersed in salt water, then stick with the Resorcinal glue.   :D :D

For certain parts of the door where there's NO constant strain, the TBII would be ok.  The creep gives me the creeps though.
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: tacks Y on June 10, 2019, 12:27:40 PM
The raised panels are layered also, so the joints do not match
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31743/100_0967.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1560183958)
 . Here is a pic of the top of the door joint. Looks like the top is only 2 layers??
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: btulloh on June 10, 2019, 12:37:16 PM
I like it. It gives you some options for grain and figure.

Is it pure cope and stick or do have some loose tenons hiding in there?
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: Bindian on June 10, 2019, 05:28:33 PM
Consider using 4 band if you have it.  It will take a smaller bite and is all I can use with my mill (19hp kohler engine).  Hickory is so darn hard and around knots or grain direction change, can make the balde want to ride up or down.  Dry hickory is the worst.  Really hard to band saw.  7 requires more HP, and likely more prone to waves in hickory.  I've sawn a couple green and one dry hickory barn beam that was like sawing concrete and dulled a band in one pass.

If you build a door and you glue up, if you're using titebond glue, use the original.  Don't use Titebond 2 or 2.  They have more tendency to creep (soften and let the wood move) when heated by the sun.  Original titebond is better for that. Also, will you have an all glass storm door in front of the wood door?  Such a situation, with sun shining on it, can raise temps in that space like a green house.  It would be better if it could let heat escape and not get so hot.

I recommend getting Timbor or Solubore.  Spray your wood as soon as it's sawn.  If adult PPB lay eggs in the wood, it would be months before you'd see the larvae boring and by then they'd be in the wood.  The only way to kill them in the wood is kiln sterilization.  So you want to prevent them from getting in the wood in the first place by spraying right off the mill.  Your T&G that is inside, is the building they are in sealed like a house?  Will it prevent adult beetles from coming in and laying on the wood?  If it's a floor that is installed, and it has a finish on it, a film finish like oil based urethane or water based urethane, then a film finish will prevent adult PPB from landing on it, tasting the wood startch and then laying.  If they don't taste wood starch, they won't lay on it.
My mill has a 38hp Yanmar diesel on it.  The door will not see the sun, the house will have covered porch all the way around.
hugs,  Brandi
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: tule peak timber on June 10, 2019, 06:58:52 PM
Rip - flip-layer, and march on. You are on the right track! Some guys use opposing grain panels (sandwiched) or a substrate in the middle. Door exposure to sun/rain is a huge factor to take into account when fabricating. Proper finishing schedule....... ;D
Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: bluthum on June 10, 2019, 07:20:39 PM
All doors should have a big over hang /porch, perfect world. That's out of the way, good for you.

I've built a lot of sandwich doors without the cope and stick approach. Three layers, middle layer is cut to act as the tenon. Cope and stick for an  exterior door might be better with a floating spine anyway. 

Title: Re: Hickory Door
Post by: tule peak timber on June 10, 2019, 08:08:00 PM
Agreed ,,, and you can do more....Hope you are going to the pig roast !