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General Forestry => Chainsaws => Topic started by: grb5043 on August 27, 2020, 07:03:53 PM

Title: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: grb5043 on August 27, 2020, 07:03:53 PM
I recently acquired a used Stihl 260 Pro. Before getting the saw to run I tested the compression and it was 90 psi. After running two tanks of gas through it it has 140 psi. I was looking into replacing/rebuilding the carb, fuel filter, air filter, hoses, spark plug etc. I see on eBay you can can a kit that has those items and is 1/10th of the price of OEM. Are they total garbage? What are people's experiences. Also if the saw now has 140 psi do I need to do a top end rebuild? I know that's not the ideal compression. If I do a top end rebuild what are people's experiences with aftermarket parts?
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: sawguy21 on August 27, 2020, 10:15:14 PM
There is nothing wrong with 140 psi. I am not a fan of aftermarket for rebuilds, too much time and money wasted redoing it. Some products are ok others not so much. I want to do it right the first time.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 28, 2020, 07:16:26 AM
I've rebuilt them every which way you can imagine.  I have an 026 now that has a $30 cylinder kit and it runs just OK.  I had to rework the sharp edges on the ports and use OEM cir clips since the kit came with tabs and the are BAD to break where the tab just comes off and wrecks your saw.

But, it obviously does not have the power of OEM.  It's like a box of chocolates.

It's fine for a truck saw or something like that and if somebody steals it I lost $30 .

If I was making a living with it or really needed something I could depend on long term  I would use OEM.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 28, 2020, 09:49:49 AM
You get what you pay for in aftermarket. You can stay with Meteor and the like and probably never get burned. However, if you're anywhere near the price of OEM, just go with OEM.

Or you can find used OEM, polish up the jug and go with that.

If you can buy a complete piston, jug, rings, wrist pin and clips for $30 or so.....what would be your expectation?

To a lot of people, just getting it started again and cutting wood is their best expectation. This follows the indentured mentality that 'cheap is always best'. I run pro saws only.....for me, they have to run like they did new and with the same kind of dependability....but that's me.

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 28, 2020, 04:10:57 PM
I usually keep three saws for myself. Now I have an MS660, MS362CM, and a $30 026.  So, which one do I take when I know it will be in the back of the truck while I'm in Lowes, or the hardware store, or the convenience store. Eventually it will likely go to some neighbor for $100 with an expected and usually realized life time warranty LOL . Likely when I get it back the carb will be clogged because it hasn't been ran since they bought it.

Guys who hang out on chainsaw forums generally have a thing for chain saws. For most people they are not any more interesting or get any more use than a yard rake.

So, chainsaw forum types always want tip top OEM, maybe professionally ported, TOTL , etc.

I was that way. Now I just want it to run long enough to get whatever I am doing done, and if it is a second longer cutting cookies I couldn't care less.

There is the other world out there.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 28, 2020, 11:39:34 PM
I don't give a rat's butt about GTG's and cutting cookies. I just want my pro saws to perform like they always did and should....nothing less.

When I throw four 'antique'(millennial's believe them to be if they are from the 80's or older), saws in the back to go on a job....they need to work as hard as I do.

I wouldn't begin to make absolute statements about people on chainsaw forums. Yeah, I see a lot of repeated themes, but it seems a pretty diverse community, everything said. A little too much Squeal here for my tastes.

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on August 29, 2020, 06:28:56 AM
I agree with both you guys. :)

AM parts that don't actually affect the way a saw runs, such as a brake handle or muffler are less likely to be an issue. Top ends, carbs, and coils are more likely to let you down and be frustrating. But they are the parts where the biggest savings lies, so they get most of the attention in these discussions.

I don't understand the "premium" aftermarket stuff such as Meteor. They are so close to OEM pricing that I see no reason for anyone to buy them. At least in the Husky world; I guess Stihl OEM kits still require a mortgage to buy one.

Some guy came in last week with a 372 kit from Baileys that he payed $160 for. My God, that's what I sell the OEM kits for. And the Baileys kit looked like it was made by Hyway; which is garbage IMO. But ya know, it was 52mm "Big Bore" and people are always eager to overpay for any kit with big bore written on the box. :)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 29, 2020, 09:58:25 AM
I just want my pro saws to perform like they always did and should....nothing less.
 

I,I,I,I.   That is my point. Most people out there have no idea how they always performed or care as long as it does a job once in a blue moon.

There are different markets out there and one isn't terribly interested in the way another wants to put money in it.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 29, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
I agree with both you guys. :)

AM parts that don't actually affect the way a saw runs, such as a brake handle or muffler are less likely to be an issue. Top ends, carbs, and coils are more likely to let you down and be frustrating. But they are the parts where the biggest savings lies, so they get most of the attention in these discussions.

I don't understand the "premium" aftermarket stuff such as Meteor. They are so close to OEM pricing that I see no reason for anyone to buy them. At least in the Husky world; I guess Stihl OEM kits still require a mortgage to buy one.

Some guy came in last week with a 372 kit from Baileys that he payed $160 for. My God, that's what I sell the OEM kits for. And the Baileys kit looked like it was made by Hyway; which is garbage IMO. But ya know, it was 52mm "Big Bore" and people are always eager to overpay for any kit with big bore written on the box. :)
You'd think that most who are approaching the price of OEM with an aftermarket kit, would just go with the OEM kit. But I guess that logic doesn't always follow through. And Squeal has crazy prices on OEM kits......

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 29, 2020, 10:04:29 AM
I just want my pro saws to perform like they always did and should....nothing less.


I,I,I,I.   That is my point. Most people out there have no idea how they always performed or care as long as it does a job once in a blue moon.

There are different markets out there and one isn't terribly interested in the way another wants to put money in it.
I don't know where we got off on the wrong foot, but so be it. Sound better to you if "I" had said 'he, he, he and he'?

We're giving opinions here and they don't matter for much other than your 2 cents. You do what you want and I'll do what I want....hopefully, we don't have to ever meet.

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 29, 2020, 10:08:46 AM
LOL.  You are saying that everybody needs to do it the way you do it.

I do it the way the customer decides he wants to do it.  Or, tell the customer how it was done whatever that may be. OEM or aftermarket, doesns't really matter to me.

That simple.

Don't think I would start threatening people over a disagreement on a forum.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 29, 2020, 10:27:52 AM
LOL.  You are saying that everybody needs to do it the way you do it.

I do it the way the customer decides he wants to do it.  Or, tell the customer how it was done whatever that may be. OEM or aftermarket, doesns't really matter to me.

That simple.

Don't think I would start threatening people over a disagreement on a forum.
Show me where I'm threatening anybody. Just said I hope we never meet....didn't say I'd do anything to you if we did.

And you don't get the part about opinions on saw forums. You're just as stubborn about your opinions and the way you want to do things. Who's right in this case(?)....let the readers decide......and they will. Members should be free to choose and benefit from a wealth of real world knowledge.

Never said anyone should do saw repair the way I do....but always interested in "friendly" arguments against....not ridicule or disdain.  

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: weimedog on August 29, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Am vs. OEM. interesting and not really complex for me. OEM always should be the first choice if available and can be afforded. Period. And this isn't simply related to parts hat effect how a saw runs as well...and example? Chain Brake Levers for MS660's...some of the AM stuff were just to soft. Eventually they would take a permanent new shape....interfering with the top of the muffler....and would "catch" there making it real hard if not impossible to reset the chain brake, now effecting how that saw runs. Because it can't work with the brake on! Another? Bar studs....some AM's were just way too soft. Nothing like being in the woods after carrying that saw and striping the bar studs when adjusting chain tension. How about when a pull start frags while you are working. And my personal favorite, the handle bar bending the first time you have to pull a saw out of a pinch...to the point it looks like skidder damage. So the kind of things that are low risk for AM? Top covers. :) Problem is on some hobby saws, with OEM parts becoming "NLA", in those cases used or AM can be the ONLY option.

Having said that the educational value of de-bugging a kit saw is hard to quantify, same with the fun factor. I really enjoyed developing the kit 660's. But not certain I have the desire to do a 2.0. And now they compete with where I really want to go with the saw hobby....old metal saws colored red, where I started in the hobby journey many years ago. ( Even here, can find some of those rambling from over a decade ago )

And in the Husqvarna world anything but an OEM top end to me is a waste because of Husqvarna's pricing.

To the OP.. for me, the Stihl AM options in fact sometimes are a legitimate option because of price. But that's a qualified "sometimes". And Meteor & Hyway getting cozy muddies those waters as well.

So for me the bottom line is if it is a saw that needs to be reliable...OEM every time.

For hobby and education sometimes AM really works well. Said it for years and nothing has changed my mind on the subject....as I continue to run both "Bling Saw" and my Chinese 372 builds...but always with an OEM build of some sort in the truck as insurance.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 29, 2020, 11:30:32 AM
not ridicule or disdain.
 

You are reading something that was never there.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on August 29, 2020, 11:42:31 AM
I've done them both ways with OEM and after market .So far none that I know of have failed .None have failed using good used parts either .
Now of course if you get stingy with the oil in the gas mix or try to make them rev like a model airplane engine they are doomed to fail .
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 29, 2020, 11:44:58 AM
Here's a really happened what if for you.  My farmer neighbor down the road had one of his migrant workers straight gas his MS180, for the second time.

How would you repair this saw ?
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: weimedog on August 29, 2020, 11:48:14 AM
Toss it and buy another Admin language edit like that one?  ::) Explore electric options? :o Do a better job of controlling what fuel mix is available and goes IN the new "Admin language edit" ? :)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on August 29, 2020, 12:51:35 PM
At the risk of bad humor I was going to say remove the bar and chain.Tie a rope around the handle and use it for a boat anchor for a very small boat .
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 29, 2020, 02:23:27 PM
Probably not bad ideas.  I put a Chinese motor in it and charged him $50 total.

As far as controlling the fuel he probably did it himself and just blamed it on the Mexicans.

You might be surprised how many saws I get full of diesel fuel.  And, it's always the grand kids or somebody.  Yeah right.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on August 29, 2020, 02:37:04 PM
Well more than one has dumped bar oil in the gas tank .It doesn't kill them but my oh my once they finally get started they do blow smoke a long while .
Now I don't recall ever doing that but I did anti freeze a weed wacker by grabbing the wrong jug .Which didn't occur to me until a few days later I mix gassed my tractor radiator .Things happen you know .
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 29, 2020, 04:43:12 PM
not ridicule or disdain.


You are reading something that was never there.
"I,I,I,I" is ridicule. It was to suggest that "I" was overused in my posting and "I" was preaching to do it only my way. Has it come down now to counting the number of times "I" is used in postings to indicate dictatorship? Do "I" get to go back and count the number of "I's" in your past posting to mean something as well?

"I" have no problem with you running a small engine shop and putting in $35 P&C kits for those that want it. Your justification was that the saws are mostly little used anyway, so it's no big deal. And that the owners wouldn't know the difference anyway. All I did was counter that some of us DO know, there are alternatives to the $35 P&C kits and the reasons for such.

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 29, 2020, 04:49:17 PM
Am vs. OEM. interesting and not really complex for me. OEM always should be the first choice if available and can be afforded. Period. And this isn't simply related to parts hat effect how a saw runs as well...and example? Chain Brake Levers for MS660's...some of the AM stuff were just to soft. Eventually they would take a permanent new shape....interfering with the top of the muffler....and would "catch" there making it real hard if not impossible to reset the chain brake, now effecting how that saw runs. Because it can't work with the brake on! Another? Bar studs....some AM's were just way too soft. Nothing like being in the woods after carrying that saw and striping the bar studs when adjusting chain tension. How about when a pull start frags while you are working. And my personal favorite, the handle bar bending the first time you have to pull a saw out of a pinch...to the point it looks like skidder damage. So the kind of things that are low risk for AM? Top covers. :) Problem is on some hobby saws, with OEM parts becoming "NLA", in those cases used or AM can be the ONLY option.

Having said that the educational value of de-bugging a kit saw is hard to quantify, same with the fun factor. I really enjoyed developing the kit 660's. But not certain I have the desire to do a 2.0. And now they compete with where I really want to go with the saw hobby....old metal saws colored red, where I started in the hobby journey many years ago. ( Even here, can find some of those rambling from over a decade ago )

And in the Husqvarna world anything but an OEM top end to me is a waste because of Husqvarna's pricing.

To the OP.. for me, the Stihl AM options in fact sometimes are a legitimate option because of price. But that's a qualified "sometimes". And Meteor & Hyway getting cozy muddies those waters as well.

So for me the bottom line is if it is a saw that needs to be reliable...OEM every time.

For hobby and education sometimes AM really works well. Said it for years and nothing has changed my mind on the subject....as I continue to run both "Bling Saw" and my Chinese 372 builds...but always with an OEM build of some sort in the truck as insurance.
Whoa....care to elaborate on the Meteor/Hyway connection....this sounds really dark. franken-smiley

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 29, 2020, 04:56:05 PM
"I,I,I,I" is ridicule. I
 

 Others may not want what you want.  Others being opposite of I . Simple concept, nothing ridiculing about it.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 29, 2020, 05:01:39 PM
Well more than one has dumped bar oil in the gas tank .It doesn't kill them but my oh my once they finally get started they do blow smoke a long while .
Now I don't recall ever doing that but I did anti freeze a weed wacker by grabbing the wrong jug .Which didn't occur to me until a few days later I mix gassed my tractor radiator .Things happen you know .
Yeah they do. After a really long day (and I'm a firm advocate not to run chainsaws more than about eight hrs straight), I dumped bar oil into the gas tank. What a mess. I bet that smoke cloud is still hovering over WA somewhere. :)

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on August 29, 2020, 05:06:53 PM
"I,I,I,I" is ridicule. I


 Others may not want what you want.  Others being opposite of I . Simple concept, nothing ridiculing about it.
Obviously, and it shouldn't have to be even stated in a chainsaw forum, with everyone giving opinions.

Would it have been better for 'you' if "I" had used "IMHO"? Or does that offend your sensibilities as well?

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Tacotodd on August 29, 2020, 05:20:57 PM
@ZeroJunk (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24383) and @Real1shepherd (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=30584) , just calm it and go to your separate corners.

Just remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Leave it at that.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: trimguy on August 29, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: joe_indi on August 29, 2020, 10:51:03 PM
Aftermarket parts are fine for saws that we term as ' beyond economical repair' if it were to be done with OE parts
Similarly, we have situations of saws being wrecked in the hands of careless workers, whether OE parts or AM are used. In such cases AM costs less for the customer
We also get a category of users who are a couple of grades below weekend so warriors. These types use their saws maybe once in two months, or three months and don't bother to drain out the fuel . And for them it is easier for you to replace filters and carbs than spend time cleaning them out. And here the AM comes handy.
But for pros who depend on their saws for their livelihood, OEM is the only option. So also for those non pro users who keep their saws in top condition.
I have tried all types of AM and have found them undependable most of the time, life span unknown.

The joke doing the rounds currently is that for the first time we have got  something from China that has lasted more than 3 months  ;D
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Tacotodd on August 30, 2020, 08:32:11 AM
 :D :D :D
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: sawguy21 on August 30, 2020, 11:23:51 AM
 :D :D :D That is a good one.
:D :D
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on August 30, 2020, 12:38:08 PM
As general info many manufacturers have moved some degree of their parts to the Asian Pacific rim.Often times the quality has suffered .One   manufacture of orange saws at one time had their carbs made in Japan which were good quality but after moving same to China had many problems .As I understand it that has been corrected .
After working for 29 years for a major automotive company and previously for just nearly all the others .I can attest  those parts come from all over the world no matter if it's Ford,GM or Honda or Navistar .I have no doubt Caterpillar and John -Deere is about the same .
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: joe_indi on August 31, 2020, 02:44:15 AM
Al, the OE manufacturers moving manufacturing from their countries to the Asian region is understandable ( maybe not acceptable in their home countries since they also pull jobs in the process), since it is for reducing over heads. But they manufacture using the same molds and dies. The AM supply is done with molds and dies made by reverse engineering. So precision may be lost. Also raw materials used may not be virgin, instead metal scrap is recycled. This is where the problem lies.
Many Stihl users may recall the white mark on the muffler. Do you see it anymore in your countries? I don't see it here anymore
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Air Lad on August 31, 2020, 04:04:32 AM
Our Fujitsu and Daikin brand of AC's come with PRC and Thailand on the boxes.
Japanese parts but. 
Still the top of the tree for quality around here.
What that means I dunno  say_what
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on August 31, 2020, 06:35:35 AM
K1 and deisel are most likely in my shop AL. Don't think I ever saw the antifreeze trick. Along with the water that is quite common, the refrain is: "I don't know how that got in there." There's plenty of talk about the superiority of pro saws on these sites and often looking down our noses at the plastic homeowner saws. But those poor saws have to endure a different kind of abuse that pro saws rarely see. Some of the clowns who run homeowner saws don't really know enough about them to even own one. It's scary considering the dangers involved vs say a weed wacker.

3/4 of homeowner saws come in with a droopy chain. As in like a suspension bridge droopy with drive links well below the bar. Nearly all of the chains are dull beyond belief. Those chains are black along with a blue/black patina on the clutch drum testifying to the amount of heat that was present as the operator insisted on forcing that dull chain to cut. But if you really want to generate heat, how about running the saw with the brake on wondering why the chain isn't moving? That trick will melt the case and trash the saw. "No, I'm afraid that isn't warranty." Homeowner saws do not lead an easy life. :)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on August 31, 2020, 08:37:30 AM
 :D Let me explain the anti freeze .At that time I kept my 2 cycle fuel in old anti freeze plastic jugs because I had  a lot of them .It wasn't a good idea .The anti freeze and the color of the mix oil was about the same which caused me to over look things .Things like this happen when you get in a hurry .
On the saw thing believe me I've seen tree trimmers saws more abused than occasional user owned .
A few years back this area was the hardest hit during a monumental once in a blue moon ice storm in the entire USA .Because of a rush to get enough saws the trimmers bought a bunch of less expensive Stihl saws like 029's and 039's .They lasted about 1 to 2 years under that abuse and I have a box full of them,parts in my shed .They just couldn't stand up to that kind of treatment .
When the storm hit the dealer I do business with supplier in Cincinnati sent two semis full of saws etc .and they were gone in less than one week .They stayed open 20 hours a day during the clean up that lasted about 3 or 4 weeks .During that time I had previously  ordered some parts and bless their hearts I got a phone call about 3 days later they were in, in spite of how busy they were .That's why I do business with them .--more>
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on August 31, 2020, 08:44:23 AM
I know the owner of that business which is the largest Toro showroom in the entire USA .About 6 years ago I bought a new Toro Titan 54" zero turn and the owner delivered it .He took a look at my shed which has maybe 20 Stihl saws along with maybe 30 more of different makes .Of course some are modified which as a dealer he can't do with franchising regulations .I'm not a dealer so I have no rules .I told him a few tricks in case at some time he wanted to build a hotty on the QT . ;) 
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: ZeroJunk on August 31, 2020, 10:39:18 AM
Just another thought, the difference in color between road taxed diesel and Stihl HP Ultra doesn't exactly jump out at you.  Wonder why they didn't dye it some funky color ?
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on August 31, 2020, 02:25:43 PM
Al, I have a logger friend that loses, runs over and just goes through gas cans. Hates the spill nozzles, not to mention the price of the cans. Solution is whatever jug is laying around. Bar oil, trans fluid, laundry detergent, whatever works. Laundry jugs do have some nice pouring spouts ya know. :D

On the homeowner saws getting beat up, I hope I didn't imply that they live an easier life than pro saws. Just that they see a different form of abuse from inexperienced users. My tree guys really hammer their saws too. ANY saw will lose a battle with gravity. :)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on August 31, 2020, 03:43:06 PM
Al, I have a logger friend that loses, runs over and just goes through gas cans. Hates the spill nozzles, not to mention the price of the cans. Solution is whatever jug is laying around. Bar oil, trans fluid, laundry detergent, whatever works. Laundry jugs do have some nice pouring spouts ya know. :D

On the homeowner saws getting beat up, I hope I didn't imply that they live a harder life than pro saws. Just that they see a different form of abuse from inexperienced users. My tree guys really hammer their saws too. ANY saw will lose a battle with gravity. :)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on August 31, 2020, 05:15:53 PM
What few home owner saws I work on most time if they don't start they just buy a new one .Then eventually sell them to somebody and then here they come saw in hand .Usually it's just a carb rebuild .Once though it was filter so clogged up it couldn't breathe .I'm sure we've all seen our share of real doozies .
My bud the trimmer replaced his whole fleet about two yeas ago and hasn't had enough time to beat them up yet .When he did replace them I added to my collection about 6 more saws which BTW run just fine after I tinkered with them .He's such a Stihl loyalist I even got a fairly nice 281 Husky on that haul which really is a nice older saw .Alas though it has just became another shelf queen . 
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on September 01, 2020, 04:32:55 PM
Shelf queens are part of the hobby, and I've got a bunch myself. I respect that not everyone sees it that way, thinking every saw ought to get some run time. But once you get the "collector" bug, you end up with more saws than it's feasible to run, regardless of whether they are mint queen bees on the shelf or scuffed up worker bees on the garage floor. Just dust the 281 off now and then.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on September 01, 2020, 05:08:53 PM
And then some of us have kept our #'s down......so we're using saws that are all running and the ones that aren't used, aren't running yet....lol

That way I don't have any guilt or shelf queens...just saws that run/work and saws that need restoring. 8)

What happens when I get them all running....dunno!


Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on September 01, 2020, 07:35:26 PM
I get the bug every so often to raise one from the dead I know I'll never really use .Believe me I've got some boat anchors but in the day they made their bones .On the other hand some will really surprise you regardless of their age .
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on September 02, 2020, 07:09:45 AM
I sure wasn't very good at keeping the numbers down. Couple times I declared that a certain number would be a stopping point, but then just blew by it. A model I didn't have yet. Often it would be a saw with a top end failure that was otherwise in too nice a shape to NOT fix it. Like Al, sometines I get a hankering to bring something back to life in the workshop at home. Couple beers, music on, just a great place to hang out.

Some saws get sold. Have a waiting group of guys that'll take every pro saw I can put together. The other stuff I keep in the back; won't put used/rebuilt saws on the shelf. Kevin got ripped a couple months ago for use the word "cheapskate". Well, the reality is there are such things. There's a big difference between someone who really can't afford something and some "cheapskate" in a $60,000 German SUV who comes in and says "what do ya got used?" before he says hello. So, I feel people out a bit before mentioning that I have something in the back. :)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Woodfarmer on September 02, 2020, 07:24:22 AM
I had a 2165 rebuilt, ordered an OEM husky piston....made in China. Was not impressed. Husqvarna claims that their strictest quality control is followed at those plants in China. So if I ever have to do it again I will probably go Meteor.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on September 02, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
I had a 2165 rebuilt, ordered an OEM husky piston....made in China. Was not impressed. Husqvarna claims that their strictest quality control is followed at those plants in China. So if I ever have to do it again I will probably go Meteor.
Yup, the 550 top ends that came from China were quite a mess. Very premature loss of compression with no visible signs of scoring. Less than 10 hours on a saw and it wouldn't run. Those top ends are now from somewhere else, and the price went way up also. Like you, I wouldn't want an "oem" piston from China either. But now it looks like anything that isn't from Sweden or Germany is from Brazil, where both Mahle and Kolbenschmidt have facilities. 
I'd be cautious with Meteor though as most of it is not from Italy anymore. They seem to have cozied up to Hyway, so paying a premium for a Hyway in a Meteor box isn't where any of us want to be. 
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on September 02, 2020, 10:24:28 AM
I had a 2165 rebuilt, ordered an OEM husky piston....made in China. Was not impressed. Husqvarna claims that their strictest quality control is followed at those plants in China. So if I ever have to do it again I will probably go Meteor.
Yup, the 550 top ends that came from China were quite a mess. Very premature loss of compression with no visible signs of scoring. Less than 10 hours on a saw and it wouldn't run. Those top ends are now from somewhere else, and the price went way up also. Like you, I wouldn't want an "oem" piston from China either. But now it looks like anything that isn't from Sweden or Germany is from Brazil, where both Mahle and Kolbenschmidt have facilities.
I'd be cautious with Meteor though as most of it is not from Italy anymore. They seem to have cozied up to Hyway, so paying a premium for a Hyway in a Meteor box isn't where any of us want to be.
Bob,
I hate to hear that about Meteor....that sucks. Outsourcing away from the mother country almost always leads to inevitable quality loss.

I have a friend up near Toronto that collects saw. I first knew him when he had under 30 saws. He's not sure how many he has now, but way over a hundred. I'll give him this though...he pays very little for them usually, or they follow him home. And he has a friend up north that watches the dump for him.

Just got a Pro MAC 850 that way. He fixes and restores everything. He started with mostly reed valve saws, but wound up with some ported saws.
Anyway, I admire the fact that he pays very little for saws and scours the auction places. Like you, lots of guys from the States want his saws. He doesn't have access to some models because they didn't appear in Canada much. But he's patient and he waits.....what he wants usually turns up.

Great guy and the best kind of collector! If I could be retired, I'd be doing the same thing.

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Spike60 on September 03, 2020, 06:34:28 AM
Patience does pay off. Have an advantage with the shop, because sooner or later just about anything comes through the door. And the saw values are "real world"; meaning cheap. Most people consider old saws to be little more than junk that doesn't run cluttering up the garage. It's only in the hobby/collector arena where you see these inflated prices.

I do have a nice PM850 I got from a dealer I know. His Dad was a Mac dealer from something like 1947. Do they go back that far? One of the 2 Macs that I kept. Unlike Walter's PM700, mine idles. You reading this Walt? :)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on September 03, 2020, 08:12:37 AM
Well now on those Macs you have to  remember with  the age it's hard to say how many parts actually were original  or what got swapped from  another model .Unlike certain modern saws which I won't mention that use model specific parts .
A  700 most likely had a Walbro SDC carb I think but a Tillotson model HS was used on some of the 10 series .I know from experience on certain HS models they had a little slot,divit on the bottom of the throttle butterfly plate that had to align with the idle jet .It could get slightly tilted and if so either would not idle well or not idle at all .What happens is it does not pass enough air over the jet to suck the fuel out .Unless the throttle butterfly was held open by the idle screw.If so then  they idled pretty fast .
That little info  tid bit I really didn't know until a guy from Florida enlightened me .Sure enough he was right .Just a thought . 
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: HolmenTree on September 05, 2020, 11:27:32 AM
I culled my saw herd down to just a 562XP, two 066mags and a battery 536XPT. About all I need for my tree service.
Though I do have one collector in my attic that will get a rebuild and hopefully hang onto it. A late 1970's very low hour Jonsereds 70E.
A friend gave it to me and my interest in it was I never ran a 70E back in my logging days, I went straight to the "saw of the future" 910E at the time.

The 70E and 910E were the last true Jonsereds before Electrolux bought out the company.
I may like my 70E so much I may just put it to work on the company payroll.
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on September 05, 2020, 04:27:33 PM
The 70E is/was a great saw....iconic J'reds. A little bulky by today's standards but still a well balanced, modern ported saw.

One caveat is the SEM's module under the flywheel. They later updated to a module pickup outside the flywheel. But the SEM's module under the flywheel goes bad with a lot of these saws....and as far as I know, there's been no AM replacement.

Another caveat in the plastic fan bolted to the flywheel. The good news there is that a guy makes them with 3D printing on a very expensive machine at work and they are holding up perfectly.....wants about $40 for one.

Other than that, I don't know anyone who had a good running 70E that didn't like it. Most regret selling one if they let it go.

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on September 05, 2020, 07:39:49 PM
If I'm not mistaken it might have been the Stihl 056 that used a similar under the flywheel SEM coil .But's it's also rare as a hens tooth .However it's been mentioned there is now an aftermarket available .
Some years back when I got the 2100 CD it had a faulty coil and I got it cheap .Good old Bryce in Washington had one,50 bucks .The kill wire didn't work so I had to get creative on  that one .There's more than one way to skin a cat they say . ;)
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: HolmenTree on September 05, 2020, 10:14:37 PM
The 70E is/was a great saw....iconic J'reds. A little bulky by today's standards but still a well balanced, modern ported saw.

One caveat is the SEM's module under the flywheel. They later updated to a module pickup outside the flywheel. But the SEM's module under the flywheel goes bad with a lot of these saws....and as far as I know, there's been no AM replacement.

Another caveat in the plastic fan bolted to the flywheel. The good news there is that a guy makes them with 3D printing on a very expensive machine at work and they are holding up perfectly.....wants about $40 for one.

Other than that, I don't know anyone who had a good running 70E that didn't like it. Most regret selling one if the let it go.

Kevin
Kevin, I had to pull the 70E out of the attic and have a look . It's got the upgraded external ignition module and the poly flywheel looks good.

The old girl is pretty dirty needs a good cleaning plus the fuel tanks interior is corroded pretty good .
Need to tear it down split the cases and stick it in my bead blaster cabinet.  
Eastwood sells a really good red paint for interiors of  engine blocks and heads.
I sprayed some fuel mix in the carb and she fired up on the first pull.
Be a nice project when I get the bike saws done.
It took Stihl 20 years after the 70E to get a poly wheel on their 066 I have .
The Jonsereds wheel looks better quality of steel and the bolt on poly fin wheel.
Got a good 20" Tsumura bar and a NOS Stihl 35RM chain.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20200905_210006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1599358459)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20200905_202104.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1599358455)
 
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on September 06, 2020, 10:04:01 AM
Willard,
I would buy that 3D printed fan and just replace as insurance. Sometimes the OE fans just let go....even after a good examination. And then they can take out your recoil cover and damage the coil too. Anyway.....it can get ugly.

Looks like a fun project and at least you don't have the first run with the SEM's under the flywheel. Eastwood has fantastic stuff....or you could go with auto paint of the right color mix. I just don't wanna hear about clear coating shelf queen saws for gas resistance and all that nonsense.

@Al (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=6597)....the Husky 2100 has a replacement SEM's module out now, I've bought one. As far as a new SEM's for a 70E, show me what you're talking about?

Kevin

Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: HolmenTree on September 06, 2020, 10:18:35 AM
Thanks Kevin,  if you could send me a PM with your friends name and address where I can get a new poly wheel made. I imagine I'd need to send mine to him.
I spent an hour last night looking over the 70E and man I forgot how well built these old  'sereds are. A company today would probably go bankrupt building one of these again.

Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Al_Smith on September 06, 2020, 10:38:17 AM
On the SEM coil I was referencing the 2100 Husqvarna .I have never seen  nor have any idea what this 70E is .I just reread my post but I failed to see where I even mentioned anything about a saw I know nothing about or even existed .Where did that assumption come from ?
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on September 07, 2020, 11:44:12 AM
If I'm not mistaken it might have been the Stihl 056 that used a similar under the flywheel SEM coil .But's it's also rare as a hens tooth .However it's been mentioned there is now an aftermarket available .


It's unclear what you're referring to here. Since were were talking about Willard's 70E, I assumed that's what you were referring to.

No, there's no reintroduction of the SEM's for the 70E.

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: Real1shepherd on September 07, 2020, 11:51:36 AM
Thanks Kevin,  if you could send me a PM with your friends name and address where I can get a new poly wheel made. I imagine I'd need to send mine to him.
I spent an hour last night looking over the 70E and man I forgot how well built these old  'sereds are. A company today would probably go bankrupt building one of these again.
Willard,
Go to post #132 and just contact the guy. He makes runs and then probably waits for more demand. They hold up....lots of them in use now. I only know him by reputation....never bought the fan myself.

I know a guy that has a 70E he wants to sell me. It's got the SEM's under the flywheel, but it's a nice running saw. Not cheap either, so it's no 'deal' and I'm in no hurry.  

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/70e-plastic-flywheel-3-d-printable.269641/page-7 (https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/70e-plastic-flywheel-3-d-printable.269641/page-7)

Kevin
Title: Re: OEM vs Aftermarket Stihl parts
Post by: HolmenTree on September 07, 2020, 12:00:08 PM
Thanks Kevin, appreciate it! :)