The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Tree, Plant and Wood I.D. => Topic started by: LeeB on September 21, 2020, 06:14:37 PM

Title: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 21, 2020, 06:14:37 PM
Is this ash?


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3666.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600726054)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3665.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600726072)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3667.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600726082)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3668.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600726116)
 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: WDH on September 21, 2020, 08:30:17 PM
The large medullary rays say that it is oak. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 22, 2020, 05:30:16 AM
Very white wood and somewhat lite in weight. Just didn't seem like oak to me. I'll see if I can find some leaves. It did have fence wire in the trunk. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: kantuckid on September 22, 2020, 08:01:38 AM
Reminded me of Chestnut Oak which sure isn't lightweight!
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 22, 2020, 09:10:03 AM
A little dried out but still should give a clue.

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3671.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600780006)
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3670.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600779986)
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3669.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600779930)
 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: WDH on September 22, 2020, 08:12:32 PM
The 2nd wood pic with the wide medullary rays and the leaf pics totally confound me. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 22, 2020, 08:35:36 PM
I'm pretty sure there is another one close by on the fence line that may help. I'll try to get pics of the fresh leaves. The face grain does look like medullary rays but there in no fleck in the quarter sawn wood and I don't see rays in the end grain.  ???
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 23, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Here's a better shot of the end grain. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3675.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600891037)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3674.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600891024)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3673.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600891008)
 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 23, 2020, 04:38:10 PM
Persimmon?

Must be my eyesight because I don't see any wide ray wood.
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 23, 2020, 06:50:58 PM
I do have plenty of persimmon on the place but the bark is not right nor is the wood heavy enough. Leaves are wrong also.
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: WDH on September 23, 2020, 08:15:58 PM
I am thinking pear or some type of fruit wood.  Does that make any sense to you?
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 23, 2020, 09:42:42 PM
The leaves do resemble some wild pears that are on the place. Have never sawn any of them so cannot compare the wood. The wood does not look like domestic pear though.
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 24, 2020, 01:09:55 PM
Well now, don't believe it's pear either. These are pics of the wild pear in the front yard. Different leaves and bark.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3677.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600965572)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10046/IMG_3676.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1600965573)
 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 24, 2020, 02:10:51 PM
Looks like some kind of fruit wood then. Looks like some suckers on the trunk like pears and apples have sometimes. :)
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: bluthum on September 24, 2020, 03:14:22 PM
The wood and leaf clusters look some what like Bumelia languinosa. The bark does not but then I've never seen one that big either.
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 24, 2020, 04:03:45 PM
Looks like some kind of fruit wood then. Looks like some suckers on the trunk like pears and apples have sometimes. :)
The last two pics I posted are pear. Not the same tree as the first pics I posted. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 24, 2020, 04:10:16 PM
The wood and leaf clusters look some what like Bumelia languinosa. The bark does not but then I've never seen one that big either.
No spines.
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 24, 2020, 04:29:27 PM

The last two pics I posted are pear. Not the same tree as the first pics I posted.
My eyes musta been glazed over and heavy, when reading it. :D
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 24, 2020, 08:39:06 PM
I think bluthum has got it. 

chittamwood (http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/chittamwood.htm)
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: WDH on September 25, 2020, 06:40:42 AM
Good job, Bluthum!  That is certainly it.  I have it here, just never seen the wood inside the tree.  

Lee, the leaves are weirdly soft, feel like velvet.  Try it and see. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: kantuckid on September 25, 2020, 06:47:59 AM
I have Black Haw growing right near my home. The leaves have some resemblance to the OP's pictures but the bark is not similar at all. Black Haw here is a small shrub sized tree, mine are exceptional @ maybe 15-20'.
I see them along highways here noticeable by the flowering in season. They grow in clumps from self seeding of the fruits via bird poop? They now have many green berries on them which turn dark, navy blue in the fall and a small oval shape which birds eat.
Clusters of tiny white blossoms in early spring make them attractive near homes, etc.. The bark is in small obvious blocks not as seen in the first post above. Reminds me of persimmon bark some but a much different tree overall in spite of the woods resemblance. I have sawmilled persimmon and it has that ebony family dark heart in streaks.
Cannot comment on the wood as I never chopped on one.
I say no to Chittamwood- which I've never heard of until now. Black Haw leaves are not "velvety" but do have some gloss as OP's pics. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2020, 09:39:33 AM
Other common names include antswood, black haw, brazos bumelia, buckthorn, chittimwood, coma, ironwood, shittamwood, false buckthorn, gum bumelia, gum elastic, gum woolybucket, slowwood, stifftwig, tempesquistle (Mexico), Texas bumelia, woolybucket bumelia, wooly buckthorn, wooly bumelia, and zapotillo (Mexico).
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: Texas Ranger on September 25, 2020, 10:35:17 AM
I am glad that is over, none of my books identify blackhaw, or also called wayfaring tree, arrow wood, sweet haw. 'twas a puzzlement.-
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 25, 2020, 12:07:01 PM
Looks like a dead ringer for sure. 8) :)

A real stumper. You guys have all kinds of different wood that stay well south of old man frost and his glaciated porch. :D
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: kantuckid on September 25, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
I stand by my opinion which is based on my tree book that it doesn't look like my Black Haw trees. I'll estimate there's ~ 12-15 of them within a 100' of my home. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
Post a pic so we can all learn something.
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
Viburnum prunifolium - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viburnum_prunifolium)

@kantuckid (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7283) 
Is this what you have?
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: WDH on September 25, 2020, 09:02:14 PM
Lee, your tree is certainly bumelia.  The leaves are on short shoots, some of which can be pointy and thorn-like, similar to what you see on an apple tree.  The fruit is a little black drupe, which is a fruit with a pit like a cherry or olive.  The bark is interlacing ridges.  The underside of the leaf is very velvety hairy, with small fine orange pubescence.  It is not a blackhaw.  Our local blackhaw is Viburnum rufidulum, rusty balckhaw. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
I agree with you Danny. I was just trying to put a name to kantuckid's tree.
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: kantuckid on September 26, 2020, 07:50:44 AM
Yes-Black Haw is my tree/shrub.  In the wiki I see they touch on my native part of KS but I'd never seen them until I moved to KY. The white flower clusters stand out in early spring as not much else near that time except maybe Sarvis. They grow in tight clusters causing me to wonder if they are colonial, i.e., inter-connected as locust, Aspen, etc.? 
Viburnum family can be tough to ID as so many out there. 
They grow in the understory in all I see of them unless the understory was removed. 
One of mine is smack dab beside a Southern Crab tree, yet another species I knew not until coming to KY. 
Obviously some species get larger in warmer climates such as S AR, etc.. Sassafrass is rarely much size here-I've had one that was sawmill sized on my place and when it died I cut it. Persimmons the same thing, not often very large here. 
The Black Haw fruits seem to not be a favorite of wildlife as they mostly fall on the ground. They are hard and olive like but much smaller fruit. 
Title: Re: Thought it was ash but now not sure.
Post by: Don P on September 26, 2020, 08:10:16 AM
Thanks for posting the wiki Lee. Sorta like opening the cyclopedia and getting lost, I'm somehow over to reading about agriculture in ancient Rome  :D.