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General Forestry => General Board => Topic started by: Sedgehammer on October 28, 2020, 08:17:23 PM

Title: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 28, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
I know it can go almost anywhere with enough chimney pipe, but don't want to run chimney bracing if not really needed.

I'm thinking in the SE corner below the steps. It's about 8' from the south wall. Maybe run the pipe into the main shop and up and out?

The garage door will be put in once we build the house. I'll frame that in and maybe add a window. We'll prolly be in the shop for 3 years or so. Me bride wants to build the first part of our apartment building first. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/South_LI.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1603930432)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/Ground_Floor_LI.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1603930425)
 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Southside on October 28, 2020, 09:49:06 PM
Some place you don't have to lug wood a long ways over clean floors.  
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 28, 2020, 11:48:30 PM
Some place you don't have to lug wood a long ways over clean floors.  
Yeah, that too. It'd be straight across from the entrance door on the south west corner if I put it where I mentioned
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: ljohnsaw on October 29, 2020, 12:38:25 AM
Maybe I'm missing something.  The apartment seems to have everything but a bedroom?
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Tacotodd on October 29, 2020, 03:47:02 AM
lj, did you not see the stairs? Im not trying to be a smartelec but those probably lead to it/them. Just an educated guess from my MANY years ago (10th grade) drafting class that I BARELY (61%) passed. BTW, I was horribly slow and inept. Looking back I should have taken wood shop or a auto shop.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 29, 2020, 05:18:03 AM
Maybe I'm missing something.  The apartment seems to have everything but a bedroom?
as @Tacotodd (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=50744) mentioned it's upstairs, didn't figure to post all the plans, since only putting stove on 1st floor.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: doc henderson on October 29, 2020, 06:49:27 AM
ours is in the living are as we like to watch the fire and feel the heat.  we use a tote with handle on one end and wheels on the other to keep bark and dirt off the floor.  in the winter and we are keeping it going 24/7,  the heat goes up the open stairway.  so we keep bedroom doors closed or it will be too warm to sleep.  hate to have my wife opening a window after working so hard to heat the rest of the house.  so not a precise location, but some general considerations.  also not just inside the door, so when a family with 3 kids walk in, you are not up against a hot wood stove.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Patrick NC on October 29, 2020, 08:31:24 AM
Im not sure Id want the stove at the bottom of the stairs. If you ever had a large piece of furniture to carry upstairs ( couch, mattress, etc) you would probably have to move the stove. Also a high traffic area so that increases the risk of someone tripping and falling against the stove. 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: moodnacreek on October 29, 2020, 08:39:01 AM
The place for a wood stove is where almost no one would put one, in the middle of the room/structure with the pipe going straight up through the ridge where there is almost no water except the rain. This can possibly give you  a self cleaning chimney.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: JJ on October 29, 2020, 09:13:20 AM
Some place you don't have to lug wood a long ways over clean floors.  
Looks like he can just roll up the overhead door and deliver the wood by front loader.
         JJ
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: JJ on October 29, 2020, 09:17:26 AM
The garage door will be put in once we build the house.
 

Guess I should read beyond the question..
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on October 29, 2020, 09:52:34 AM
You'll need to study up on flue installation before the answer can be found. Learn where you can use stovepipe vs. flue pipe. Also learn how much height is required to achieve a proper draft based on where and how the flue exits the building.
I dislike through the wall flues vs. through the roof but much that enters into that one.  Most of the websites of the mfg. of stovepipes and flues have reference pages.  That's only possible if you know the exact stove you'll be using and also know codes that might pertain as well?
In my great room addition to our home I went with a small Jotul stove that has glass doors as it's mostly a recreational fire not what provides our overall heating as once was the case-for over 25 years, as it were.
Many people nowdays choose stoves that are not situated within there home. I didn't have that option when I built my home to buy a pre-made outdoor furnace/boiler setup. Mostly they weren't invented yet and I couldn't afford a wood boiler as was made back then. The Mennonites I bought my Riteway wood furnace from in 1978 actually had such an arrangement which heated their home and an adjacent greenhouse operation.
If you must have a fire indoors then do the first part of my response. My flue in our new timber frame great room is triple wall SS pipe which exits the cathedral ceiling directly above the stove. As far as I know, in the USA double wall is mostly the code for metal flues whereas in Canada the codes are far more stringent! I like to opt on the side of caution when it comes to flues for solid fuels!!!
Another consideration safety wise is that given the upstairs sleeping, you need a fire exit in your design!
Does local code there, if any require a catalytic stove? Best to talk whomever will insure the building before you do anything at all towards a solid fuel appliance!
Where I live, other than your insurance company your free to burn the place down as fast as you can and I see flues as I drive down the road that make me wince!!! ::) Many are the very commonly seen trailer homes of my poverty area or old common houses with what was a haphazardly built masonry fireplace from long ago fitted with a stove pipe. Sadly this kills many each year so a serious soap box subject for me. 
I pity the poor bastard who decides to remove my wood furnace from the basement! I placed it on my slab before the foundation walls were laid. I slid our firewood down a wooden chute to my sons who stacked it under our back porch, 3 and 1/2 rows to the ceiling and carted into the basement from the stacks. Anything under 6-7" went into the stack unsplit for long burns. 
I love a wood fire but don't envy chasing that much firewood ever again. 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 29, 2020, 10:15:22 AM
@kantuckid (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7283) Thanks. Not worried about code, but I will put in a triple wall stainless pipe. best to go straight up I know, but then I'd prolly need 12' of pipe out side, not going to do that. asking for what wil work vs what is best
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on October 29, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
FB marketplace has lots of used stovepipe for sale. My cabin build is waiting on the beginning of wood parts now but I buy stuff when cheap. This week I got 3x 36" pieces of used Metalbestos 6" pipe and a storm cap for less than half price. 
I'm currently watching for a deal on the roof parts for my flue system. Two solid days of rain here so the web is a friend right now :D
Wood fires are one place where code matters even though it's not there. The insurance folks are quite another thing... 
High roof lines mean lots of "something" to get away from ridgelines and down drafts. My log home is two story and like already said, the heat will go up no matter what and a fan is a waste. 
Sleeping upstairs you might want that heat as far as you can get (well, sort of) it from where you sleep or you'll burn up?  Our entire home has cathedral ceilings with ceiling fans that work year round to circulate air. 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 29, 2020, 01:11:13 PM
@kantuckid (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7283) I meant by code that I won't need to have it inspected. It'll be built to better than code if possible, as that's how i typically build stuff

I did some research after you all posted and I found a rule called the 3 - 2 - 10. 

I attached 2 pics. Based on that I should be able to put it right where I have put the X if that rule holds true. That puts it just below 5' tall on the high side of the roof. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/Ground_Floor_LI_28229.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1603991034)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20201029_120453.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1603990817)
 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on October 29, 2020, 03:36:59 PM
I cannot read the elevations such as wall heights as my zoom doesn't get me there. The top of a flue, as I recall, (my minds getting a tad oldish) should be x # feet higher than any roof surface within 10' , something like that. What type of ceilings or roof does it penetrate? In my cabin build the flue will use whats called a "roof support" such as cathedral ceilings and "A"-frames use. Single wall stove pipe meets that sheet metal box then mates with multi-wall pipes, through the proper boot for the roofing and pitch, etc., then on up to where it will both draw and not backdraft either. Also a brace setup and a cap. 
As a guy that has burned a whole bunch of wood I can say that the best of them will come back at you on days when the barometer is playing jokes on yer flue. 
Is in the garage 1st, then modify the flue and move it later a thought worth having? 
Have you considered the outside burners I mentioned?  Never seen this but I suppose some people might have a "sit and see it fire" along with an outside thingy.  
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 29, 2020, 03:50:03 PM
I cannot read the elevations such as wall heights as my zoom doesn't get me there. The top of a flue, as I recall, (my minds getting a tad oldish) should be x # feet higher than any roof surface within 10' , something like that. What type of ceilings or roof does it penetrate? In my cabin build the flue will use whats called a "roof support" such as cathedral ceilings and "A"-frames use. Single wall stove pipe meets that sheet metal box then mates with multi-wall pipes, through the proper boot for the roofing and pitch, etc., then on up to where it will both draw and not backdraft either. Also a brace setup and a cap.
As a guy that has burned a whole bunch of wood I can say that the best of them will come back at you on days when the barometer is playing jokes on yer flue.
Is in the garage 1st, then modify the flue and move it later a thought worth having?
Have you considered the outside burners I mentioned?  Never seen this but I suppose some people might have a "sit and see it fire" along with an outside thingy.  
16' side wall
10" ceiling cathedral style
Wood warms one up several times, yes i'm aware, but I love a nice fire. Had wood stove in farm house. Burnt 8 full cords a winter. Then had 3 fireplaces in new house folks built. 
Have outside pit already 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on October 29, 2020, 04:04:16 PM
Things is the single wall is fairly inexpensive to reach that ceiling as only when you contact a pass through area and into outside air does it go to triple wall. 
FWIW, my Jotul stove we love it. I'd never choose it to heat anything other than a very small place though! I painted my inside stove pipes with rattle can green heat paint to match the stove. It sits in a corner on ceramic tile which meets the self made wide board oak floor. i trimmed out my tile with oak thin strips which have a 1/4" walnut strip between. The tile continues to a double French door entryway and woods a few feet away on the deck. 
Our fireplace is masonry into a 12" SQ tile flue and our wood furnace (not used as we virtually never lose electric power here, but when we have we burn the Jotul FT) is in the basement into the 8" SQ tile and up two stories to a natural stone chimney top.  We only use the fireplace for holidays. I paid a mason what amounted to nearly what my lumber cost to build my home to do the fireplace and basement walls too. Which by most peoples standards was a pittance. 
Have fun doing this big thing! Man, do I ever love to build. It should have been my final of my 5 careers but I wasn't that lucky I guess.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Don P on October 29, 2020, 10:25:06 PM
3' above the highest point within 10' or 2' above the ridge is code, but, that looks like a recipe for a downdraft. Wind rolling off the upper roofs is likely going to shove the smoke back down that pipe.

Just to stir the pot, outdoor wood boilers have yet to approach the dim flicker of stone age technology.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on October 30, 2020, 08:31:02 AM
Maybe not much wind in Oklahoma? :D 
Dim flicker of stone age tech-that's a good one! 
On that same notion, in the woods I sometimes think about the original people and what they had to burn, such as lightning hits and so forth.
 Tech wise my recent used stove buy for my cabin build has a catalytic converter in it and represents my first stove with one of those honeycomb thingies. Hard to imagine all that "stuff" going through those little honeycomb holes of about 3/16"SQ?
 I bought the Vermont Castings stove as a basket case and FWIOW, I came real close to leaving it out when I re-assembled the stove. 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 30, 2020, 08:56:02 AM
3' above the highest point within 10' or 2' above the ridge is code, but, that looks like a recipe for a downdraft. Wind rolling off the upper roofs is likely going to shove the smoke back down that pipe.

Just to stir the pot, outdoor wood boilers have yet to approach the dim flicker of stone age technology.
That's what i was afraid of by putting it there..... Only other place is just left of the steps. Run pipe to near ceiling, turn towards main shop, go through shop wall, go into shop x feet, turn and go up and out.
In WI had an outdoor boiler. Heated the 4,300 sq ft house and the domestic water. Bought a semi load in the fall. 12" diameter and smaller x 8' oak. Cut it 2x, don't split, toss it in one in morn and once at night. Walla. 
Problem with making outdoor boilers with all sorts of technology, is no one taught the wood to read its suppose to burn like this and that. Plus it's suppose to be x % dry. In a prefect world, sure, but that's not reality. 
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Old Greenhorn on October 30, 2020, 09:13:44 AM

 Tech wise my recent used stove buy for my cabin build has a catalytic converter in it and represents my first stove with one of those honeycomb thingies. Hard to imagine all that "stuff" going through those little honeycomb holes of about 3/16"SQ?
 I bought the Vermont Castings stove as a basket case and FWIOW, I came real close to leaving it out when I re-assembled the stove.
That would have been a mistake. I have an Atlanta stove I just rebuilt and I found a new replacement catalytic Combustor for it. It makes a big difference in the flue output (very clean), chimney cleaning (a lot less buildup) and heat output (that sucker burns HOT when it kicks in).
 The guy at the stove shop says they are finally coming back and have been used in pellet stoves for years. A little pricey though.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on October 30, 2020, 10:01:52 AM
Never had much issue with my flues staying fairly clean. My SS flue is spic and span always. 
Those outdoor burners are bound to be more trouble than my Water Furnace Geothermal which thermostat is commanded by my wife-I wash my filter now and then but not much else happens.

I remember those days of hoping I'd chosen that somewhat perfect bunch of wood sticks to not catch on each other & hangup, etc. and then come home to a cold house, ah for the good old days? 
A flue in a tallish home is a chore. 
I was happy to see that my catlytic converter was OK other than a million mud dauber nests that I carefully cleaned out! The convertors are like $300+ and the glass fiber box that holds them is another $300+. My $3,500 stove cost me $250 plus 3 cast iron small parts that had been lost in storage. Lots of deals out there on wood stoves people stop using. 

Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: stavebuyer on October 30, 2020, 08:46:54 PM
I had my triple wall chimney pretty much like you have yours drawn at my old house. Not only was it below the roof peak and due east(prevaling wind thus rolled over the roof peak) but also the house was surrounded by some 100' oaks too close for comfort. I never had any issue with wind; the harder the wind blew the better it drafted.

Temperature inversions and dead calm with a cool stack will cause trouble as will creosote build up on the chimney cap screen. I would not hesitate to put it where you drew it.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on October 31, 2020, 06:40:14 AM
I agree with the red X location as well. 
What stove is the next question.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: SwampDonkey on October 31, 2020, 03:29:41 PM
Put it central in the living area and near the roof peak, you have to get heat from the stove to all corners of the house. The further the heat has to travel the cooler it becomes. At least 3 feet clearance above the peak. Put the flu straight up, no turns.The old timers knew this a long time ago in those old square farm houses up here. I built a new house 2 years ago, followed all them rules. Flu stays clean as a whistle even though I check every month of wood burning. Just some powdered soot falls in the pale from the brush. I burn any species of wood off the woodlot from my thinnings.  I've got 43' to the top of the flu including, basement floor to flu join from stove, and double wall stove pipe from stove into flu. Mine is a furnace. :)
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 31, 2020, 06:46:28 PM
Put it central in the living area and near the roof peak, you have to get heat from the stove to all corners of the house. The further the heat has to travel the cooler it becomes. At least 3 feet clearance above the peak. Put the flu straight up, no turns.The old timers knew this a long time ago in those old square farm houses up here. I built a new house 2 years ago, followed all them rules. Flu stays clean as a whistle even though I check every month of wood burning. Just some powdered soot falls in the pale from the brush. I burn any species of wood off the woodlot from my thinnings.  I've got 43' to the top of the flu including, basement floor to flu join from stove, and double wall stove pipe from stove into flu. Mine is a furnace. :)
I understand what's best, but the temporary living room will be the garage for the rod some day. There is no ridge in this room. It's a lean to. to get it 3' above the ridge, i wood have to put the stove in the middle of the stair rise, turn to the main shop wall and then turn up through the ceiling/roof. Then my pipe wood be 13' exterior exposed.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: Sedgehammer on October 31, 2020, 06:48:06 PM
I agree with the red X location as well.
What stove is the next question.
I wood like one that can have the doors open and function properly. I'm more for the snap, crackle, pop and the look of the flames dancing then I am for the heat.
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: kantuckid on November 01, 2020, 08:30:31 AM
Our Jotul LR stove and the Vermont Castings Encore/Defiance model I rehabbed for my small cabin both have glass doors that burn when open as a fireplace stove. The Vermont Castinmgs appealed to me for my off-grids cabin based on the top loading feature which is also a large, oval, cooking griddle.  
I sold the Fisher stove from my shop. They are indestructible but have no ash pan, a must have for a stove IMO. 
Any stove lacking an ash pan that sits in a living space is gonna be a PITA. 
My wood furnace is coal/wood and has a shaker grate & a huge ash pan,  both VG features to stimulate the fire. There are several brands that have glass and burn solid wood. Napolean is fairly popular modern brand I saw for sale in the used market that has glass. 
After all is said, a wood stove has several unhealthy aspects. Key words are-Chainsaws, your back, your hands, the air within the home, etc.. Even with a well drafted stove the air gets some nastyness in it. My two cents...  
Title: Re: Where wood you put the wood stove?
Post by: SwampDonkey on November 01, 2020, 10:24:38 AM
As I said, I have a furnace here with forced air. Has glass door. I have a rocking chair down there, where I sometimes enjoy the flames. :D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/house-furnace-fire.jpg)