The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Ask The Forester => Topic started by: whitepine on January 27, 2006, 08:53:02 AM

Title: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on January 27, 2006, 08:53:02 AM
 Last year I  planted alot of containerized seedling with a dibble and have more trees ordered for this year. I was talking to a county extension agent about it and mentioned my ground is so hard I had to stomp several times on dibble to make hole and my leg could not handle it for long, he mentioned that some were using an auger drill which had the added benifit of not compacting the sides of the hole (makes sense to me in clay). Anyone drilled seedling holes or have any comments I would like to hear. I also want to try planting whips so  that may be a good idea for me as I have been told one has to get them down 18 inches which would require a shovel as no way you could force a hole that deep with dibble.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: Pullinchips on January 27, 2006, 02:07:35 PM
you need a sub soiler pulled behind a tractor.

-NAte
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: customsawyer on January 27, 2006, 07:03:12 PM
Make your own dibble. I go to the junk yard and get a set of leaf springs form a small pickup and use them to make my dibbles as the ones that you can buy are not as long as I think they should be for the size of the seedlings that we get now days. I am not a metal expert but there is some thing about the leaf springs that will let them go in the ground a bunch easier than any dibble that you can buy you don't have to put a point on them just grind them some at the end that is going into the ground.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on January 28, 2006, 06:55:08 AM
Hi Because of terrain a tractor is out of the question and I cannot imagine any piece of metal that one could easily force into this ground. Thanks Tom
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: TexasTimbers on January 28, 2006, 08:14:19 AM
I too have 250 seedlings to plant in clay. My clay starts at about a foot, then plays out at about 3 to 5 feet. I read where planting seedlings in clay is a sure way to kill them so I'm wondering if I drill a 9" hole plumb through the clay will it increase thier chances of survival?
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: customsawyer on January 29, 2006, 06:21:04 AM
I have planted well over 5000 acres of pines in the clay here in Ga. I don't think that our clay and yours in east Texas would be all that much different kevjay if you run the subsoiler down to about 20"-24" deep and wait for the rain to settle the botom of the furrow back you should do just fine. I have had few jobs fail but it was never due to being planted in the clay.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: Pullinchips on January 29, 2006, 11:38:14 AM
Your auger or drill would be on the back of a tractor wouldn't it?

-Nate
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on January 29, 2006, 10:26:22 PM
no the seedlings are only about 3/4 inch plugs
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: UNCLEBUCK on January 29, 2006, 11:47:38 PM
 I have been planting some trees every year , not many but I have a auger bit for tree planting I bought on ebay in the forestry section . I use it on my sandy soil witha 18v milwaukee drill and a fully charged battery will last 24 holes . I have used a 2 row pull type planter from the county extension and its ok for my sandy soil but they also have a no-till tree planter and they have sod cutters on them to scalp the pasture or hard soil and I have watched them do heavy clay ground and it plants perfectly and leaves a nice trench when finished and the transplant is standing perfect.  It costs 40$ a day for the cheap 2 row planter for sandy soil and I pull it down the highway at 35 m.p.h. when I go get it .  I like transplants better than seedlings but my last years seedling were half the price of transplants and they are alive and thriving . I want a dibble for this year as drilling with a battery drill is hard on the clutch set at full torque especially when I hit a little stone . Good luck planting
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: UNCLEBUCK on January 30, 2006, 12:06:09 AM
Hey whitepine , I buy alot of trees from willow river ,mn. its the location of the state run nursery and the only location for minnesota , its half the price of the county offices and thats where they get their trees from . 500 minimum but its fun to go there but they also deliver for a small fee ! They raise just about every tree that will grow in minnesota . You can also hire a custom tree planter crew and they will come in and blow in more trees than one could imagine in any soil conditions . General Andrews Nursery, Willow River,Mn. they will send out the order form for free and its fun to read as well
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: TexasTimbers on January 30, 2006, 06:16:31 AM
Your auger or drill would be on the back of a tractor wouldn't it?

-Nate

No sir. Just goes to illustrate how ignorant I am. I had no idea they were only 3/4" plugs till unclebuck mentioned it. I haven't picked them up yet. I bought them from the Texas Forestry Service and they suggested I wait until I goit some rain and give them a weeks notice before I pick them up.
I was envisioning them being bigger and I was going to drill a 9" ) smallest bit I have for the skid steer) auger I was planning to punch all the way through the clay.
Seems like overkill now  :D
It wouldn't take very long to 250 9" holes only 3 - 5' deep with a skid steer. Maybe it woukld give the seedlings a better chance? I could drill the hole and have my helpers fill it back in immediately and then stick the seedling in the loose dirt?
There's still got to be a better way. I better google a dibble and see whats up with that.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on January 30, 2006, 09:16:48 AM
Hi So far I have ordered from the state (andrews) and Itasca greenhouse near me in Cohaset they sell the containerized seedlings and I bougt my dibble from them www.itascagreenhouse.com I have a hammer drill cordless dewalt and 3 batteries but I hope I get more than 24 holes out of it. Bought a 1.25 inch auger off ebay and was told the Soil conservation service uses them for soil samples in winter right thru the frost so I tried it yesterday kicked off a foot of snow and there was only about 1/2 frost (usually 3 ft) took about 5 sec to drill hole but didnt hit a rock. Suppose I will keep an eye out on ebay for gas drill I see they also make a 12v earth drill Want to try Swampdonkeys idea of  planting whips If you are reading this how long should I cut them and how much should I bury. Most of my land one could not get a tractor thru. I have looked into paying for planters.20 per tree but  everyone I talk to says they had poor luck with planters although the forestry uses Mexicans and Guatamalan crews with success.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: Pullinchips on January 30, 2006, 02:03:13 PM
i too also was envisioning a ladscape type tree with a larger root ball as wondered why plant those in your clear cut, but hey go for it.  3/4 in make much more sense, would hate to tote 500 trees sized big enough to need a tractor auger.

-Nate
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 30, 2006, 02:31:26 PM
I have looked into paying for planters.20 per tree but  everyone I talk to says they had poor luck with planters although the forestry uses Mexicans and Guatamalan crews with success.

I've had varying degrees of luck with hired tree planters. The ones that supervise the crew work out good. The ones that don't check on them lead to problems. I've found that they will plant every other row, space them too far apart and they will also toss seedlings in the woods to get their tree count up for payment. When I monitored work on private land I sometimes went for a little strole outside the perimeter of a block, you'de be surprised how many trays with seedlings still in them that take root and continue growing in those trays. :D

Now it's totally different if you see culls and pulled apart double plugs. A double plug (double stem) is two seedlings in a plug, one gets torn off (or supposed to be). Irving goes through their seedlings at the green house and there are no doubles. I wouldn't plant a seedling under 7 inches above the root color and never taller than 10 inches. I can take you on my woodlot and show you good seedlings and poor ones. I have nice black spruce from DNR grown in Jiffy and nothing is under 6 feet after 9 years (alot are over 8 feet), and I can show you another area that another company supplied what I call culls and where planted 2 years later and most are under 3 feet. I totally replanted that area and the replants are almost as tall as the older trees there. Also my wild white spruce have performed as well as so called improved seedlings. I get the same height growth as planted black spruce and my diameter is double the size, sometimes more. Balsam fir grows even faster, those are my future studwood trees. But, with all the increased costs of production to loggers, low wood prices and mill closures maybe we won't need our wood. It will come from China.  Take me out and shoot me. ::) :D :D
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: UNCLEBUCK on January 31, 2006, 11:56:52 PM
 My little auger is a 3 inch diameter and about 3 foot long . The only thing I can say is that I have a few inches of black dirt until I hit gravel so when I am done augering I have a blended mix of so when I push the dirt back in the dry topsoil will be in the bottom of the hole sucking the moisture out of the roots instantly so before a rain might help. I planted 500 black walnut in 2 hours with a pull type planter and it did not rain for 3 weeks and the walnut had nice green leaves and looked fine , the following spring they were all dead from 35 below zero .
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on February 01, 2006, 08:10:57 AM
Uncle Buck you did better than me the deer  nailed mine right away and I used deer repelant both the skydd and bitter stuff but will try again.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: Mr Mom on February 01, 2006, 10:15:11 AM
     Feed the deer lead that will stop them  :D :D :D.



     Thanks Mr Mom
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on February 01, 2006, 09:22:22 PM
For thirty years I had livestock and under penalty of jail I shot timberwolves to try to stem their killing my stock and they still  cost me about 20% of my income which wasnt much. Now I am trying to grow trees and I wish I had a pack living here.  After I retired from cow calf I used to pick up roadkill deer and feed them in the pasture out in front of my livingroom  window have had as many as 6 eagles at a time and that brought in wolves also and the deer left the area so thinking of continuing that program. Unfortunatly most neighbors work in town and like to feed the deer so doing what you suggest would be very unpopular I think If I keep feeding wolves I will get some criples living here and that and deer repelant should work.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: Don P on February 01, 2006, 09:57:44 PM
Have you ever tried a hoedad (sp?) They are less fun than a power tool but works better for me than a dibble bar. I could plant 2500/day on an average site with one, don't think my back could do half that now  :). I've planted from mountains to coast with one. 20 cents a tree sounds good, I used to spend the day going nickle, nickle, nickle and if they offered a dime it was a hurricane hell.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on February 01, 2006, 10:26:03 PM
Hi I looked at them but was told by forester they no longer allow them here on tree planting crews because they claim they do a poor job.  I am not to concerned about quantity if I get  a couple hundred in a day I am happy
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: UNCLEBUCK on February 02, 2006, 01:24:08 AM
Maybe someday a scientist will invent tree seedlings and transplants that will have a odor that deer do not like . Maybe a graft with a chili pepper !  :D
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on February 02, 2006, 08:42:20 AM
I was reading about northern white cedar and the problems they have about deer with them and thats what they are working on. I would love to plant alot of cedar and am keeping all I have from the loggers but anything here less than 6 ft tall is deer candy.
Title: Re: Seedling planting dibble or drill ???
Post by: whitepine on February 16, 2006, 12:38:54 PM
http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/htmlpubs/htm99242316/index.htm Just found this it compares  a hollow dibble a gas drill a slide hammer  dibble and a dewalt cordless drill ( I have the dewalt setup and a hand dibble) sort of answers all questions