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General Forestry => Drying and Processing => Topic started by: serg on January 29, 2013, 11:01:57 PM

Title: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on January 29, 2013, 11:01:57 PM
Hello friends!
I made a new design of drying wood. Volume of 40 m3. Convective drying with thermal function. I had the idea of ​​drying and thermal pine timber large volume. I did not know how the quality and uniformity of the thermal drying, the movement of hot air in the chamber. I made a drying technique empirically way. Then began to saw boards, the quality is good. Period of drying and thermal pine logs 12 days. Humidity 8 - 10%. Pine timber has a diameter of less thermal 2-3 cm pine green. See photos of work.
Sergey.
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Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Jay C. White Cloud on January 30, 2013, 12:20:49 AM
Hey Sergey,

Very interesting method.  How do you get a moisture reading in the center of the log, by core sample?  Has there been any cost studies of comparing working with the dried timbers/logs compared to traditional green timber/log work?  At what temperature do you heat to and is there any case hardening of the logs.  Very exciting work, look forward to hearing more about it.

Quote
Pine timber has a diameter of less thermal 2-3 cm pine green.
Could you explain this further, I do not understand this measurement as it relates to the timber/log.  20 to 30 mm is that correct?

Regards,  jay
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: scsmith42 on January 30, 2013, 09:42:11 AM
Sergey, I don't always comment, but I do ALWAYS enjoy your posts!  Thanks for sharing.

Scott
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: tyb525 on January 30, 2013, 10:10:14 AM
Sounds like 2-3cm is the overall shrinkage from a green log to a thermo-treated and dried log.
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Den Socling on January 30, 2013, 10:21:25 AM
Hi Sergey. Welcome back. That is beautiful work, as usual.
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Nomad on January 30, 2013, 05:29:19 PM
     As always, impressive workmanship!
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on January 30, 2013, 09:49:18 PM


Hello colleagues!

       Thanks nomad
Jay C. White Cloud, thank you for your interest and questions.

And I am grateful to all members of the forum for your comments and answers’.

I will try to answer all your questions.

The process of drying and heat-treatment of green log (unbarked wood) takes from 8 to 12 days. The temperature is 165 °C; the time of heat-treatment is 24 hours.

We measure moisture using incorrigible electrode with Teflon conductors ( wires). We place them in the middle of the log.

The overall shrinkage is up to 30 mm. So the green log with a diameter 400 mm, after drying and heat-treatment has diameter 370-380 mm.

As for the studies, we cooperate with associate professor Mrs. Elena Vladimirova from Moscow State Forest University, and she uses our samples in her work. At the present time she is studying logs heat-treatment with her master students. She has an article in English about properties of some wood species, which were heat treated in boards using our method and cameras.

Sergey
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Mooseherder on January 30, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
Is there a Market for logs with bark on them Serg?
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on January 31, 2013, 08:01:34 PM
I didn’t reply to the question about cost of the drying and heat-treatment of logs.

The drying chamber with volume 40 m3 has generating capacity 73 kW. Power costs are 350-450 kW on 1 m3 of logs. Also you have to add the cost of leasing of premises, salary for the workers and the cost of loader. So it means that the cost of 1 m3 of heat treated logs is 70$.

In Russia 1 m3 of green logs cost 100$ +70$=170$ for 1 m3 of heat treated logs. And this is ready material for the round log construction building.

There is no need to wait for 4 years until the shrinkage of wood will be steady.

The alternative to this material is glued laminated lumber from pine lamellas (thickness 52 mm). The price of the glued laminated lumber is 700$. It was very fancy product in Russia, but nowadays the demand is decreasing as customers want to have a natural wood without any glue. However natural wood has some weak points.

The wooden house has to stay 3 years until the shrinkage of wood will be steady.

During these 3 years you have to make 2 times a year chemical treatment to protect the house from the mold, fungi and insects. So the price is increasing.

When the house is put in commission you have to make 2-3 caulking (it’s the sealing of joints and cracks). As a result we can see that house exploitation is quite costly and not eco-friendly. We think that thermally modified logs can solve these problems.

 

 Mooseherder

As for the market,

there is no market of thermally modified logs in Russia and, as I know, in other countries too. I hope to develop this market. And it is absolutely new product.

It’s the alternative to glued laminated lumber with a size 180х180 mm. As I write before, the price of the glued laminated lumber is 700$, and the price of environmentally friendly thermally modified round logs is 200$. The difference in price is 500$. The diameter of log is 350 mm, and its weight is lower.

I have an offer to give the first price for the thermally modified logs with diameter 350 mm - 650$. It’s possible to make dumping price.

I don’t know the cost in USA for the metal, electric energy, salary for the workers. Also I don’t know the cost of the pine logs. If I will know all these prices I can calculate the cost recovery of the drying chamber for thermal modification.

I wanted to ask, do people build houses from glued laminated lumber in USA?

As I know, such technologies as timber-frame housing and “Fachwerk” should be constructed from solid wood. And the air drying takes a long time.

In thermally modified wood we get stable geometry and shape, also the operational moisture content is not changing throughout the year. The log in first hours after heat-treatment has moisture content 2.5 - 3%, after 7 days - 5%, after 12 days – 8%.

 Sergey
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Mooseherder on January 31, 2013, 08:06:11 PM
Serg,  Are you going to remove the bark after they're dry or leave it on?
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: beenthere on January 31, 2013, 08:26:12 PM
Quote
I wanted to ask, do people build houses from glued laminated lumber in USA?

Serg
Yes they use glued laminated lumber in building houses for structural purpose primarily.
Beams and headers mostly, I'd say.

Will your treated logs compete with glued laminated lumber for strength properties?
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: tyb525 on January 31, 2013, 08:30:22 PM
I think he means glued timbers for exterior use? Not sure on that one.
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Jay C. White Cloud on January 31, 2013, 10:05:28 PM
Good Day Sergey,

I commend you on your creativity with your approach to building your log structures. I wish you all the best in marketing this type of modern log home.  You seem to have found a cost effective way, in your market, to expedite the shrinkage issue that is prevalent with certain types of log architecture.  With your system I can see many of the traditional log joinery methods not needing to be used or not used as extensively to compensate for shrinkage.  This would also mean your labor force does not have to be as skilled in joinery or assessing the proper orientation and use of a log in the structure they are building.  From a business and marketing perspective this is logical.  You may be forgoing some of the traditions of log architecture, but you are making the structure easier to build for a labor force with limited traditional building experience.

Your market may be in a different economic format than ours as well.  The foresters and loggers of the forum would be able to compare better than I.  In my market in Vermont, your prices seem very low, which would lead me to believe that you method would not be financially viable in our market or in the E.U. - only in Russia.

1 m3 = 35.32 ft2 = 423.8 board feet

$170 ÷ 423.8 = $0.40 / board foot for kiln dried logs


I am curious at what price you are asking for just the log structures per m2?

Have you had any issues with the logs expanding too much after they begin to take on ambient moisture during stabilization after being kiln dried, or do you wait long enough for them to stabilize before placing them in a structure?

In most traditional timber framing and log architecture, you want to work in green wood because it is easier to cut joinery and the building is stronger when it drys in place.

How difficult is cutting joinery in the logs after the kilning process, compared to cutting the joints traditionally?

Why do you not remove the bark off the logs prior to kiln drying them, wouldn't they dry better with the bark off?

Thank you for sharing all you information with us and answering our questions.

Regards,  jay
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on February 01, 2013, 09:31:01 PM
Thank you all for your comments and answers!

Mooseherder
I remove the bark after drying. It’s taking off very easy after heat-treatment.
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beenthere
In 2013 I am going to make a comparative research between glued laminated lumber from common pine and spruce and glued laminated lumber from thermally modified wood lamellas. This work will be done by Mrs. E.Vladimirova (PhD from Moscow State Forest University).
The research that was done in Moscow state forest university with pine and spruce, shown that when we use temperature 160 °C there are no big changes in physical and mechanical properties, the properties are even getting better. When we using temperature >185 °C there is decreasing of bending strength of pine wood. And as for the spruce, it’s increasing bending strength to 15%.
tyb525
I mean houses for living from glued laminated lumber (it’s a square beam glued from wood lamellas). This material is used for bearing walls and division walls in such a houses.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11531/1306754769_05B15D.jpg)
May be you have another term for this in USA.
An application of the glue between lamellas creates the barrier for air circulation through the wood. In Russia such houses considered to be not quite ecofriendly. 
Jay C. White Cloud
Thanks for your reply and a words of encouragement!
Shrinkage is a big problem in wooden house building.
Thermally modified wood can solve this problem. I want to add to this other positive points: extinction of insects, fungus disease, and mold wouldn’t appear on thermally modified wood. The color is uniform through-the-thickness of log and it’s really beautiful. I think that houses can be built in substitution for repair houses and buildings, for young marrieds, farmers, etc. It’s profitable to build such a houses using light foundation on the seaside, on the mountains.
I agree that in Russia we have few qualified labor force in wood house building with traditional building experience. In the old days we had much more professional carpenters and woodworkers.
I didn’t fully understand this paragraph:
«Your market may be in a different economic format than ours as well. The foresters and loggers of the forum would be able to compare better than I. In my market in Vermont, your prices seem very low, which would lead me to believe that you method would not be financially viable in our market or in the E.U. - only in Russia.»
If it is cheap, then is it bad? I showed that the cost price and the sales of the new product will give a good profit and extra cost/ added value.
There are no problems with the thermally modified logs in a humid weather, the doors are opening and closing, the swelling of logs is much lower and the geometry is stable.
It is possible to field assembly every day of the year. You can start to cut joinery after 8 – 10 days as experience shows. First of all the log should be cool to the environmental temperature, than you have to remove the bark off the logs, usually all this procedure takes 8-10 days.
On this forum I shown timber frame house. My partner, his name is Arthur, dries a pine beam (200х300 mm) to the moisture content 6 % in a vacuum drying kiln for 22 days. He worked with thermally modified pine beam (200x200 mm) and saw that the instrument is working well. There is no difference in cutting joinery in the logs after the kilning process, compared to cutting the joints traditionally. If we make the drying and heat-treatment of oak, the hardness is increasing and the instrument should be from the strong steel.
I will ask Arthur to give his opinion on this forum, he has already registered and his English is quite good.
We do you not remove the bark off the logs prior to kiln drying because it’s better to make drying and heat-treatment with the bark on.
I am ready to answer your questions.
Sergey.
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Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Jay C. White Cloud on February 02, 2013, 01:36:10 AM
Again Serg,

I am so impressed.  This is the first modern approach to timber framing and log work that I have really liked and thought was an improvement in many ways for certain applications.  Please don't stop posting, this is really a wonderful process you are sharing with all of us.  ;D

Regards,  jay
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Den Socling on February 02, 2013, 10:52:28 AM
Sergey,

Your English has improved dramatically. It's nearly perfect.

Den
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: jueston on February 02, 2013, 01:00:44 PM
i love that window trim, especially the detail at the bottom. do you have pictures at the rest window trim?
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Autocar on February 02, 2013, 02:28:23 PM
Thank you for scharing, very interesting. Your logs sure are beautiful in those homes your building, very cool !
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on February 03, 2013, 12:20:04 AM
Den, hello!
I do not speak English. I help Lena and Arthur.
I have the material production of small architectural forms. There is a video which shows a Russian TV assembly of complex thermo pine.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11531/3x2a5B15D.jpg)
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The administration says that the forum advertising or information?
I can continue the theme?
The photo ash, pine, pine thermo humidity is different for the 6 month.
Sergey

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Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: kderby on February 14, 2013, 01:17:55 AM
Please continue.  This exposure to new and interesting ideas is valuable to me.  Thank you for posting it.

The picture of your treated and peeled pine is stunning! 

Are you heating the wood using steam or another heat source?

Serg, Lena and Arthur, Thank you again!

Kderby
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on February 14, 2013, 03:00:58 PM
Question: How does the moisture get out of the chamber?

Question:  How is the chamber heated?  To get that hot, do you use heated oil or high pressure steam?  If steam, is the steam injected into the chamber as is done in superheated steam drying?

Question:  What is the temperature you use for drying?

Comment: We know that the temperature of 165 C (330 F) creates substantial strength loss in pine...maybe 30%.   As a result, such heated wood could not be used in structural applications according to U.S. and Canadian laws and building codes.
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: tyb525 on February 14, 2013, 03:55:27 PM
According to the university of Moscow 160C doesn't reduce the strength of pine, but 185C and above does. I don't know who is right there.

I think this technology is better for hardwood lumber and pine logs, than pine lumber. I see Serg marketing it for outdoor lumber and whole logs where rot, insect resistance, and stability is important. It wouldn't be needed for interior framing such as rafters, where strength is more of an issue.
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on February 14, 2013, 04:45:39 PM
It does weaken southern pine.  We begin to see weakening around 240 F.

That would be a concern for decking, stringers, etc. which are all structural.
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Den Socling on February 15, 2013, 11:10:10 AM
Gene,
If you look at the picture in the first post, you'll notice pipes on the wall. Hot oil is circulated through this piping. The kiln operates as a "typical" vac kiln until the wood is dry. In previous chambers, Sergey had a condenser but I don't see one here.
Den
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Arthur Beck on February 17, 2013, 08:15:02 AM
Hi everybody!

I'm Arthur, Serg mentioned about me above. He asked me to translate his replies to last questions and place at the forum. So, doing this.

Hello, friends.
I asked Helen and Arthur to participate the forum to help me with communication. Thank you for your questions and answers. I’ll continue to acquaint you with my thermowood experiments.
I’ve used the new design of kiln with natural air circulation. Dan is right: vacuum kiln collect moisture by mean of condenser with cold water flow inside it, while in the convective kiln with thermo treatment the steam exhausts to the atmosphere by mean of supply/exhaust valves. There are pipes with oil inside the kiln. I don’t use steam under pressure.
I use temperature 150 – 190 oC (F= 300 – 375)
I’m quite agree with you that pine loses bending resistance. But it increases its hardness, swells less, no insect infestation. I can make the rapid kiln drying of pine at 110 oC (F=230) and check it for natural strength weakening. But nevertheless I consider unpeeled log drying  at 170 oC (F=340) for 8 days to be a good result.
It’s important. Please pay attention that Moscow Forest University survey concerned fir and spruce, NOT pine at temperature 160 oC (F=320) and resulted 15% bending stress resistance increase! Hope there is no mistake, the experimental spruce was from different regions of Russia and Ukraine, and result was the same.  I’d like to notice this survey will be continued for different temperatures and heating time. For different species properties changing vary.
You know that some natural properties of wood depend on its place of growth. So they may vary under heat treatment.
It could be interesting to check American pine (not Russian) according American and Canadian standards.
I see the physical properties of wood could be increased considerably using composite technology with thermowood. It’s separate item and I’m dealing with it now. Let’s consider.
The idea is like this. Thermowood  become stable in geometry, humidity invariant lengthways and through thickness, mold and rot resistant, low swelling. All these permit to create new composite materials.
E.g., oak, hornbeam, acacia are very durable without heat treatment. The heat treatment  under  certain conditions even improves most of physical properties. So we could glue up oak and other  hardwood with pine lumber and get the advantages of thermowood with cost  efficiency of pine or spruce (fir).
There is a lot of operation in gluelam production.  Knot cutting out, lengthways gluing by mini-tenon, lamellas gluing etc. A lot of machinery is necessary. We can take low rated solid pine lumber 150x150 mm (6”x6”) and glue up 25 mm (1”) oak or hornbeam lamellas on both sides. As the result we get 150x200mm (6”x8”) composite lumber  with better durability and décor. As well we need less machinery for its production.
In case we use solid heat treated  logs and lumber in compression conditions, no need to use composites.
What’s your opinion about this “thermocomposite” technology?
The end of Serg's post.
  I am small Traditional Timber Frame Workshop owner. Our vacuum kiln was made ourselves under Serg's supervision. So we cooperate with him and his wife already for a quite long time and our next project now is to remodel our kiln into Thermo-Vacuum. I want to use thermowood (spruce and fir) for outdoor pavilions at first as shown at photos attached. In case I am shure about the rate of thermowood construction properties degradation (increasing?), perhaps we use it for residental timber frames also. Now I rely the data about that matter in this Finnish source http://files.kotisivukone.com/en.thermowood.kotisivukone.com/tiedostot/tw_handbook_eng.pdf (http://files.kotisivukone.com/en.thermowood.kotisivukone.com/tiedostot/tw_handbook_eng.pdf). They write almost all strength properties even slightly improves till 180°C (F=350). It could be enough for me they will not degradate. That's why I need my own thermo kiln to get necessary lumber for investigation.
Regarding the "thermocomposite" idea. I am not sure it can be wise for construction loadbearig lumber, especially beams and rafters. Usually 3 or even 4 sides of them are visible, so it would be necessary to laminate not only 2 sides. I think it will be costly. Perhaps it's OK for massive lumber walls to make them more aesthetic and element resistant.

 

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Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Jay C. White Cloud on February 17, 2013, 09:40:32 AM
 ;D Welcome to the Forestry Forum Arthur, glad to have you!  ;D

Regards,

Jay
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: isawlogs on February 17, 2013, 10:04:41 AM
 This is very interesting to me.
 Is the pine in the kiln the average size of pine in your area ?
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Arthur Beck on February 18, 2013, 04:02:35 AM
Yes, this is average size Siberian pine.
But we use a bit another logs. My TF workshop is located in West Ukraine nearby Karpaty mountains. So, we use local fir and spruce (there is very few of pinetrees). And we order special sized logs minimum 40-50 cm and up to 1 m diameter (see photos) in order to avoid boxed heart sawing. Center-cut timbers are much better for kiln drying.



 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30641/Logs_to_be_sawn.JPG) ) 

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Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: isawlogs on February 18, 2013, 08:22:01 AM
  I like the set up, when I saw for timber frames we have an all terrain crane to help out.

I would like a pic and dicsription of the mill you are using for sawing of the logs, how big and how long of a log can it saw  ???
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Arthur Beck on February 18, 2013, 11:08:53 AM
Our mill and planer were made by one local guy according to our need. They both move on railway from different sides of it. The log length is limited by railway (about 10 m). Diameter limits 1 m.
 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30641/Our_sawmill___vacuum_kiln.jpg) 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30641/Great_facer.jpg)
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: isawlogs on February 18, 2013, 12:39:08 PM
 Great pictures, thanks for sharing.

Do the planner and the mill run on the same track ???
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Jay C. White Cloud on February 18, 2013, 12:46:01 PM
Hello Arthur,

I would love to know more about you timber framing history.  Do you work in folk style or more modern style.  The traditional timber frames of the Karpaty Mountains are beautiful.  Where did you learn to cut timber frames?

Regards, 

jay
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Arthur Beck on February 18, 2013, 01:52:33 PM
Great pictures, thanks for sharing.

Do the planner and the mill run on the same track ???
Yes, from different sides. We use the same track double.
Hello Arthur,

I would love to know more about you timber framing history.  Do you work in folk style or more modern style.  The traditional timber frames of the Karpaty Mountains are beautiful.  Where did you learn to cut timber frames?
It's a bit another history,seems not for this topic about siberian house.  :) In fact I've told my TF history in details at the biggest Russian forum, where I have topic named "Timber Frame - we can do it". But it is in Russian. Now I make my website. Perhaps part of it will be in English. As well I plan to participate TF topics of this forum and TF Guild forum.
We do not build TF of Karpaty Mountains. We make traditional Timber Frame as it was defined by Tedd Benson, Steve Chappel and other TF guru. I learn this art by their books, websites and other sources, mostly from USA, Canada and Britain. Plus our own creativity...
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Seaman on March 27, 2013, 08:04:11 AM
Welcome Authur,
Love this thread, would love to see more pics of outdoor TF shelters.
Frank
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: clww on March 27, 2013, 08:57:37 AM
Fascinating thread. :)
Please keep posting. :)
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: WmFritz on March 27, 2013, 11:36:44 AM
This is a Good One smiley_thumbsup
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on March 28, 2013, 02:15:34 PM
Hello friends!
Arthur makes vacuum drying + thermal. I did a vacuum drying function with thermal volume of 3 m3. I'm looking for furniture style "country" or "cowboy style" in Timberfreym. New home I'll put pictures on the forum.
Sergey.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11531/IMG_3086.JPG)
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Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on April 18, 2013, 10:55:04 PM
Hello friends!
Wooden house on Lake Baikal, Irkutsk, Siberia. Pine Thermo diameter 350 mm w = 5.6 %. Canadian technology, popular in Russia this method of construction.
In America, this method works?
Sergey
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Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: thecfarm on April 19, 2013, 06:58:50 AM
A very interseting thread.  ;D    I'm glad I choose to look at it.
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: kderby on April 20, 2013, 01:43:21 AM
Serge and Arthur,

Thank you for sharing your side of the world with us.  It is really interesting to see how you get things done!

Kderby
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on April 20, 2013, 01:24:30 PM
Thank you. We do new experiments, rezultataet report on the forum.
Serg
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Thehardway on May 14, 2013, 09:47:39 AM
Serg,

Thanks for sharing your experience with this process.  Typical North American log homes use solid logs only for the outside shell and not for interior division walls.   Non load bearing interior walls are usually done with 2"x4" dimensional SPF framing lumber.   Using solid logs for interior walls would be questionable economically because of  labor costs for assembling, boring for electrical wiring and plumbing interior.  Most floor systems are not engineered for the increased weight of log interior walls either.  We like to have free spanning basement areas.  That said I think it is an interesting concept.  It needs to be further explored.

I am unaware of any US or Canadian regulation that would prevent the use of your logs for building in the manner you have shown.  Any strength reduction due to heating would be offset by the fact that in your building style there is no deflection.  All walls are built with logs in compression.  Strength would not be a factor unless the Thermologs were sawn into dimensional lumber after drying.

As to laminated logs, there are very few manufacturers using laminated log construction here due to cost reasons. ( I can think of only one)

We have a large market for structural laminated wood products that come in many shapes sizes and purposes.  Here are a few:

Glulam-  Typically made from multiple layers of KD dimensional lumber layered end to end in a Phenolic Resin to produce beams for long spans.

Fingerjointed lumber- Short pieces of KD wood machined at ends, glued and fitted to form dimensional lumber trim, and moldings that are without knots or surface defects and are more dimensionally stable than solid lumber and easily painted.  Use of lower quality stock and waste cut off product makes up for the difference in machining and laminating expense.

LVL-  Laminated Veneer Lumber.  Multiple thin layers of veneer lumber used to make stiffer and stronger beams for longer spans than can be achieved with solid sawn lumber

LSL- Laminated Strand Lumber.  Many strands of wood fiber laid up in a glue resin to form a solid peice.  Utilizes 100% of wood stock while providing a stronger and more stable product. (or so they say)

CLT- Cross Laminated Timber.  This is the latest introduction into the North American market in terms of laminated wood product and it is yet to be seen if it will gain acceptance and widespread use.  Complete, prefabricated solid wood wall and floor panels up to 12" thick are made using multiple layers of laminated lumber.  Think plywood on a giant scale. 10' X 40'X 12" Sheets with plys 1.38" thick each.


A lot of our lumber here in the southeastern US is Southern Yellow Pine.  I am not sure it would respond well to your drying system as it often exhibits spiral grain and has a tendency to twist as it dries.  Do any of the species you work with have this problem?

As for surface laminating spruce or fir Thermologs with hardwoods such as Oak, I would be concerned with stability due to different expansion/contraction characteristics between the woods.  This could cause warping or bending and there would be little advantage over our LVL or LSL products which could be veneered with a hardwood veneer for aesthetic purposes.

I think the CLT market could use a product dried in the manner you describe.







Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: Stephen1 on May 14, 2013, 07:39:45 PM
Such a small world that the some of the same TF construction is used such a far distance.
Did i understand the wood has increased longivity in the outdoors?
Title: Re: "Siberian house" of pine thermal.
Post by: serg on May 16, 2013, 10:21:02 PM
Hello!
Translation made ​​Arthur, thank you.
Thehardway
Thank you for the useful info of wooden housebuilding technology in US.  Frame housebuilding in Russia is relatively new but it more and more people chose it every year. By ages here in Russia wooden houses have been cutted of natural moisture logs by hands. Such half-fabricated house named "srub" have been curing for 2-3 years just to let the logs to dry and shrink. After this builders fill gaps between logs by flax.
 The glulam lumber became alternative. But it is expensive in Russia as well in US. We attend to dry the logs with bark due to  timber walls popularity here. HT timbers allow to populate the house just after installation without waiting for 2-3 yers. No need to fill gaps because there are no gaps and cracks. No need to protect wood against fungus and insects. The price of dry and HT logs is cheaper then glulam.
I think the qualitative multipurpose goods  based on composite materials used HT wood have to present at the market. Some years ago I experimented to glue up HT and natural dried wood. Good results I guess. I put this glulam sample  into water, than freezed it and heated up to 130 Celsius in sauna. Several circles during one month. The glue seam passed this and HT wood looks better after such extreme.On photo you can see birch plywood after HT. Glue is intact, no lamination,shrinking is 2-3 mm.
Now I deal with South Crimea pine. It also have some structural drawbacks. Inform the result at Forum later. Finally I'm sure it's possible to use such a composite material for interior and exterior trimming. As well it's possible to make hollow house panels. HT wood is excellent for basement partitions.  LVL made of HT spruce have to increase strength capacity.
Stephen1
My conclusion: HT wood is better then normal in several positions. The main ones are dimensional stability, biostability, nice color through full deepness, hardness increasing, lesser moisture absorption and swelling resistance.
Serg
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