The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: Qweaver on February 07, 2013, 06:51:29 PM

Title: Got a big job today
Post by: Qweaver on February 07, 2013, 06:51:29 PM
I was offered an 80 log job today.  I'm going to look at the logs tomorrow.  The problem I have with this job is that is is a government job (a school) and they have to have a hard money bid.  They are going to pay a log truck owner to deliver the logs to me so it's just loading and saw time for me.  I will insist that blade damage be covered as an add-on cost.   It takes me 45 minutes to an hour to load and saw an average log and I normally charge $45 per hour for me and a helper.  But I am not sure about bidding 45x80 = $3600 for this job and ending up working for $10 per hour plus resharp and saw wear if things go bad.

I have no experience with bidding saw jobs so I'm at a loss here.
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: JSwigga on February 07, 2013, 07:12:16 PM
first of all I would charge more.  Its going to take a while to get payed because it's a government job.  If you can saw 8 logs in a 8 hour day it's going to take you 10 days to get it done.  So at your price its $360 dollars a day. You have to pay your help, and buy gas.  You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year too and have to pay taxes on it.  It sounds crazy but I charge $100 an hour when I saw for government, be it state, twp, county whoever.  They are just too much of a pain in the butt to do it for cheap.
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: beenthere on February 07, 2013, 07:24:34 PM
Let us know what the logs look like.
Are they from the school grounds, or forest?
What size, and what products, and what species?
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: justallan1 on February 07, 2013, 07:32:19 PM
I agree 100% with JSwigga. I know 25 years ago on most county, state and government jobs they paid quarterly and bi-annually. If you can afford to carry the bill it's a good way to get your foot in the door for other projects.
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: drobertson on February 07, 2013, 07:40:00 PM
Man this sounds like a mystery.  Log lengths, board ft per log, species, cut list. Lots of questions to be answered for sure. Just guessing, best guess, 8000bd'ft, if they are good logs,  for just sawing your quote is fair,  this is why I like to charge by the bdft, plus blades that may be damaged.  the more you get per log the more you make. They pay for the product delievered, not the hours it takes you. this has to be your call.  I posted and read the last one, this is probably true,  I have cut a few jobs for our local vo-ag in our district,  they paid cash, mainly from funds raised by fund raisers,  not allot of politics envolved for me, good luck man.
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: Harry George on February 07, 2013, 07:45:11 PM
Goverment work is nice BUT........ You will wait to get paid  Think 60 to 90 days maybe longer.
Read the contract carefully.
At $45 / hour for yourself and a help is on the low side. $75 to $120 is better. I alway assume that I will loss a few blades and build that into my costs, along with sharpening.
I would think at 8 to 10 logs per day you will use about 4 to 5 blades per day
What type of mill are you running?
What is the condition of the logs?
What size material are to cutting?
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: POSTON WIDEHEAD on February 07, 2013, 07:52:25 PM
Qweaver, not that it matters......but do you have any idea how many mills will be bidding on this job?
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: thecfarm on February 07, 2013, 09:13:50 PM
Are you going to dead stack it,sticker it? How often will they come pick up the lumber? Will the lumber be in the way?
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: drobertson on February 07, 2013, 09:19:51 PM
Harry, just a question and a response to your post, if I went through 4-5 blades on 10 logs I would quit sawing and start selling blades to those who do! ;D
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: Leigh Family Farm on February 07, 2013, 10:45:56 PM
Double you hourly rate to $90/hour. Give them the first ruined blade on the house, but explain to them that its $40 per ruined blade beyond that. I would also ask for a 25% deposit up front and the balance due within 90 days after completion. That way you're be able to cover a good portion of your expenses without having to pony up for it initially.

9 hour day @ $90/hour = $810 per day
$810/day @ 10 days = $8,100 total bid ($2,025 for the deposit)

With the bid, I would explain to them that $8,100 is on the high side but that you want to do quality work and be compensated for the quality you produce. This way when you finish under time and budget (which you should if you complete 10 logs a day), the school will spread the word that you do good work and charge fairly for it. Your $8,100 bid is still a fair bid IMHO, even if you take the whole 10 days.
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: beenthere on February 07, 2013, 11:00:44 PM
This sounds like a contract for "service performed", similar to a contract with the landscaper to keep the lawn mowed for the season. All at a bid price.
But lots of questions so you don't get stuck trying to make the proverbial silk purse from the sows ear.

Will know better after seeing the logs, and finding out what is expected in product from them.
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: Harry George on February 07, 2013, 11:54:42 PM
Harry, just a question and a response to your post, if I went through 4-5 blades on 10 logs I would quit sawing and start selling blades to those who do! ;D

According to his post he said " he cuts one log per hour" is if you change blades every 2 1/2 to 3 hours add one in for hitting something, do the math that's 4 to 5 blades
There are many days I only use 3, but there are other days that we all know you can't catch a brake.
I perfer to have the odds and the math in my favor
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: Qweaver on February 08, 2013, 04:04:53 PM
I looked at the logs today and they are really good.  Straight and clean.  They will be picked up by a logging truck and delivered to me so they should stay clean.  We agreed that I would saw them 4/4 and framing sizes with the emphasis on getting the best out of the log as I see it.  Various types inc. cherry, poplar, oak, pine etc.
I bid 100 hours to saw 80 logs plus blade replacement for foreign material strikes...but these trees came out of an isolated area with no fences so they should be metal free. The biggest log that I saw was 32" dia. with the majority in the 20"/22" range and 20 pines 12" to 18".  Most were 8' to 10' long.  A few 12'+.  There will be no deadline and I can saw at my convenience, load on a trailer which they will pickup. 
We'll see how it goes.       
Title: Re: Got a big job today
Post by: Ohio_Bill on February 08, 2013, 04:22:35 PM
Qweaver ,to me all of your numbers add up. From you description sounds like about 16000 bf and with what you charge sounds in line with going bf charges. Hope you get the job, sounds like a good one.