The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: CCC4 on January 24, 2014, 06:36:34 PM

Title: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: CCC4 on January 24, 2014, 06:36:34 PM
Ok so my imagination is running wild from  discovery I made today while cutting. I have a video I am going to upload to show what I am talking about but it is going to take quite a bit of upload time...in the video I cut a thumper red oak, botched my back cut...misread my lean...had to get the skidder to help give me a push and it still didn't go where I wanted! LOL! The tree was sound as heck and pulled no fiber so anyway...on to my discovery.

I am cutting on a mountain side, yesterday I cut this pine and the skidder OP brought to my attention this mound. We looked at it for a bit and went on. Well today I was further up the mountain and there are mounds EVERYWHERE! There are 10 or so just where I shot the video. The mounds of dirt have been dug and piled leaving the ditch like area open. They are 10 ft long and about 6 ft wide and the mounds are 3 ft. high. They are all running North and South and they are staggered up this hillside. It would be easy to assume some sort of equipment dug them....but not so fast!!! On two of the mounds...the actual piled dirt...I cut a red oak off each mound that was 3 1/2ft across the stump! Those trees had to be 125 years old I am guessing! Hmmmm....that rules out equipment for sure! The two big red oak were, one dead and one lightening stuck and dying so...I cut them. He they been alive and healthy I might have left them till told to do otherwise.

Imaginations can run wild with stuff like this. The skidder OP had a good idea that they were possibly fox holes from a Civil War skermish. They are staggered so this could be a possibility. The big oaks growing on the piled dirt mounds would put the mounds pretty darn old. I have zero idea what they are. I am uploading the video so that maybe someone has seen something like these and might have a therory, I ruled out graves so didn't feel bad about cutting the trees...these mounds are all up this hillside though! I am so intrigued byt them I am about to explode...hence this is why I am posting about them. I wouldn't think they were so cool if the big red oaks hadn't been growing on top of them. These things are old...how old? Who knows!

Video coming soon! LOL!
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: coxy on January 24, 2014, 06:50:23 PM
 popcorn_smiley    :) :) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: goose63 on January 24, 2014, 06:51:38 PM
Hurry up I got to see this running-doggy
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: logman81 on January 24, 2014, 06:53:33 PM
Sounds very interesting, get a metal detector you might fined artifacts!
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: thecfarm on January 24, 2014, 06:55:56 PM
They are 10 ft long and about 6 ft wide and the mounds are 3 ft. high.

About how deep? Or are they just about all filled in now? Is the dirt piled on the same side of each hole?
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: CCC4 on January 24, 2014, 07:00:38 PM
Yes, the dirt is piled on the same side of every hole. They run very very consistent.

I have to come up with a metal detector! I just can't figure out what they are. I like the fox hole theory though. It's gonna take all evening for the upload, the video is sort of long due to my problems with the big oak...but it sure is an interesting find!
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: JakeG on January 24, 2014, 07:03:28 PM
You come across interesting things on a regular basis and this sounds pretty darn interesting. :)
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: thecfarm on January 24, 2014, 07:04:18 PM
Landowners has no idea?? Neighbors?? Historical Society? Has to be an Old Guy around somewheres.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Ed_K on January 24, 2014, 07:14:57 PM
Could they have been uprooted tree from a huricane from long ago?I have humps in the maple orchard from the 1938 huricane.There's new growth on and in the holes that are 20"+ .
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: ljohnsaw on January 24, 2014, 07:38:48 PM
Can't wait to see it.
 I wonder what they could be. . . say_what
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Holmes on January 24, 2014, 07:39:18 PM
 I have those humps in the woods here also. I thought they were from some very old blown over trees.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: thecfarm on January 24, 2014, 08:03:21 PM
I have humps too.But no holes besides tham. The humps are piles of rocks.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: beenthere on January 24, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
Count the growth rings on the stump that sits on a mound and go with "older than that" for age.

Not sure of your location where you are cutting, but there was a battle of Salem in 1862.
http://www.civilwarbuff.org/Places/Fulton/WarMemorial.htm

Also
http://www.ozarkscivilwar.org/regions/fulton
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Jeff on January 24, 2014, 08:59:48 PM
sounds like pit and  mound topography.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: treeslayer2003 on January 24, 2014, 09:14:57 PM
 ??? :)wiating ;D
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Magicman on January 24, 2014, 09:19:30 PM
I have mounds from the rootballs from wind blown over trees.  The tree and roots rot away and leave the mound and it's nearby hole.  It's very common on my land.

A large windstorm would leave many and they would all be oriented the same way.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Cedar Savage on January 24, 2014, 09:31:27 PM
Are the hills always, uphill from the holes ?  Sounds like they're log loading ramps, from ole time logging with horse & sleighs...They'd pull the sleigh in the hole & use the hill as a ramp to roll the logs on. I've seen them on hill sides all over Michigan, especially if on sandy ground.

Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Jeff on January 24, 2014, 10:02:47 PM
Are the hills always, uphill from the holes ?  Sounds like they're log loading ramps, from ole time logging with horse & sleighs...They'd pull the sleigh in the hole & use the hill as a ramp to roll the logs on. I've seen them on hill sides all over Michigan, especially if on sandy ground.

The especially in sandy ground makes me think that is pit and mound as well, a natural phenomenon. they didn't dig many holes in the winter into snow covered ground and most likely frozen ground. I've been an avid reader and collector of Michigan logging history, and that is the first I;ve heard of that practice. why would they, when you can pile snow if you needed a ramp.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,20.0.html
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Cedar Savage on January 24, 2014, 10:18:23 PM
I don't know where I heard it, but it was from an ole timer. I imagine in the summer, they would cut & pile logs next to the hole, & wait for winter to skid. I think it was a practice they just used on hill sides.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: pineywoods on January 24, 2014, 10:45:22 PM
Remains of big root balls where high straight line winds took out a bunch of large trees. Pretty common around here..Usually large hardwoods. SYP will break off rather than uproot, due to large taproots.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: David-L on January 25, 2014, 07:19:00 AM
I like Ed k's thought, probably pit and mound from a weather happening, tornado, etc. I see these in the woods around here from the 53 tornado and the 38 hurricane in the town of Petersham. You can follow them right through town where the path of destruction led.

                                    David l
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: 47sawdust on January 25, 2014, 07:46:22 AM
Holmes and David L took the words out of my mouth.
There is a story in Northern Woodlands about the '38 hurricane that swept through New England.To this day you can still see the mounds left behind by the uprooted trees.
Of course civil war fox holes is a lot more interesting.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: CCC4 on January 25, 2014, 08:22:26 AM
These are man made. You will see in the video that nature had nothing to do with this. The humps or mounds or whatever are all on the downhill side, nature didn't do this, they are over 10 feet long and the mounds are nearly 6 ft wide. Not to mention they are staggered all in one area up this mountain. It's not old stump holes, I promise that.

Video stalled last night, got it back going this morning. This uploader doesn't do well with videos over 8 mins. It may take a few re-starts to get the entire video up. I took the camera over to a buddy's house last night and he is going today to try and find a metal detector.

When pre-viewing the video last night, I wanted to make sure I showed what I was seeing and I think that I accomplished it pretty well. Totally unnatural mounds scattered all through. I am standing on a couple of them and you can clearly see the shallow pits behind them. The mounds show the dug up rock that is across the top of them. They are just perfect mounds, all together, and all cut in the exact same way and staggered up the hillside.

One curious thing I have come to a conclusion is is that these mounds are located 150 up the mountains looking over a very old wagon road that runs in the bottom of the hollow. You might ask why I say wagon road??? I found a metal ring that would have gone around a wooden wagon wheel. I have it stashed in a brush top, thinking about trying to pack it out...pretty neat hand forged ring.

I'm trying to get the video up as fast as I can, I talked to an Old man last night who's wife is a local librarian in the area and they want to see the video pretty bad. A Civil War skermish was fought on the other side of the White River from me...tooo small to have been really important but it was about a mile and a half as the crow flys from where I am cutting.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: mad murdock on January 25, 2014, 01:56:49 PM
Sure sounds like a "dig in position" taken by a military force from the description of it.   Can't wait to see the video.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: David-L on January 25, 2014, 02:59:30 PM
It's not over till the fat lady sings. Can't wait to see the video. I enjoy all woods history.

                                        David l
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: coxy on January 25, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
 popcorn_smiley   I have one more bag     hurry up this is driving more nuts then I all ready am :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: plasticweld on January 25, 2014, 05:53:14 PM
I was in West Virginia a few years ago and visited and old battle site.   I will have to look up the location, it was a hill top battle and it was between north and south  on the Road up to the house where there was a bend in the road was the old fighting trenches that they had dug, they ran in a perfect defensive location to keep anyone from going up the mountain road. It was two and in one spot three ditches that ran parallel with the road. Sounds very similar to what you discribe
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: goose63 on January 25, 2014, 07:23:12 PM
Waiteing popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: coxy on January 25, 2014, 08:07:50 PM
 popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley popcorn_smiley and some grits to go with that  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: CCC4 on January 25, 2014, 11:26:45 PM
Dang...finally got it to upload! LOL! Remember guys that I botched this cut...misread the lean...missed my back cut....had to get some help from the skidder. I'm not embarrassed er nothing over the cut...it happens..not very dang often...hey, might as well show a screw up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh0afMXuyOE&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&feature=c4-overview(http://)
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: thenorthman on January 25, 2014, 11:52:10 PM
I'm voting civil war bunkers.

And its good to see someone besides me posting screw up vids, really helps build character...
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: CCC4 on January 26, 2014, 12:04:23 AM
Pftt! Yeh...character! Nothing like doing it for the camera! LMAO!
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: mad murdock on January 26, 2014, 05:41:31 AM
Thanks a bunch for taking time to share this CCC4!  Pretty cool stuff you get to work around down there!!
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: coxy on January 26, 2014, 07:02:43 AM
 popcorn_smiley ate my last bag :)  nice video I too think it has to do with a war   would not get to far around here with out chains on them tires  :D nice oak to bad for the mark up the side :( hope you find out what they really are  and I am not going to say any thing about that cut cause I am not a pro  darn good at what I do but not a pro it has happened to the best of us at one point in time 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: David-L on January 26, 2014, 07:17:54 AM
Nice video, hand chopping can have it's interesting moments. I take it that was a lightning strike on the oak.

                                                                                           David l
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Jeff on January 26, 2014, 09:26:09 AM
Looks exactly like pit and mound or what we call cradle knolls. A natural occurrence here. The holes are longer than they are wide. Where my dad grew up, and the forest I hunted as a kid, I was convinced that at some point someone had been searching for some sort of long lost buried loot.  :)  This area which my family called the cradle knolls, was where I sat year after year in a deer blind. It was years later as an adult, after spending hours and hours of looking at these, that I formed my hypothesis of what happened. It was here on the forum where the Foresters confirmed my conclusions.  Not saying yours isn't something different, but everything I see makes me think its natural.  The earth is a wondrous place.  :)
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: treeslayer2003 on January 26, 2014, 09:41:02 AM
the only thing I don't think it is, is blow over holes.
its my turn to be jelous of your timber lol, them are nice oaks bro. looks like that tree had a bit of a sweep to it, can be hard to read. you must really trust your skidder op.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: Ed_K on January 26, 2014, 10:23:48 AM
 Them hole's don't look like the blowover holes I mentioned  ??? on the tree,I do that really well  ;D but I have to walk back to the landing to get the skidder.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: thenorthman on January 26, 2014, 11:12:16 AM
Pftt! Yeh...character! Nothing like doing it for the camera! LMAO!

Don't feel bad last week I went to fall a nice fat dougie, stuffed all my wedges in (5) and she still didn't want to go, so I figured the little hemlock next to it was holding her up... still didn't go.  Its been roughly an hour to this point, both trees are point down the easy way back to the landing.  So I get to walk the long way back... uphill both ways... to grab one of the jacks... did I mention the jacks are really heavy, if you get a chance to buy one of them silvey jacks do so...  2 hours one tree no video but got 3 36' logs out of it and better then half a log load out of one tree.
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: thecfarm on January 26, 2014, 11:15:47 AM
Like I saw when Mr Perfect gets talking about how good he does,You have to do something to make a mistake.  ;D
Title: Re: Ran across something odd today!
Post by: SAnVA on January 26, 2014, 05:40:57 PM
What kind of rock around these holes, any iron ore in your area, around here we find test pits where they were searching for iron ore all over the mountains! These holes ore pits look similar and ours are from mid to late 1800's, but you may not even have iron around there, good luck, very interesting!