The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: backwoods sawyer on February 14, 2014, 12:39:20 AM

Title: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: backwoods sawyer on February 14, 2014, 12:39:20 AM
I have a 1980 model woodmizer sharpener that is due for a rebuild. I have talked with woodmizer a couple times over the years and they end with needing to look into more.
When I bought the mill this came disassembled in a “Box” with a few homemade linkage parts, and without a manual for reference.
I have been using it as my primary sharpener but it is at the end of its adjustment range!!!
What I gather is that there were no revisions made to the sharpener over the years. Was wondering if anyone had a parts manual in PDF or?

I will have to dig out the Cooks sharpener and setter and get it setup that will take reworking the shop space. Need to order some stones, and dial indicators for the setter as well.

Anyone know if the cam for a Cooks 10* is the same as the cam for a woodmizer 10* (same profile of teeth on both saws?)
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on February 14, 2014, 02:38:20 AM
I can't help with the manual for the WM but I the Cooks 10° cam is different from a WM 10° cam on the Cooks sharpener. The angle will be the same but the rest of the profile is different.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: backwoods sawyer on February 14, 2014, 01:13:43 PM
I can't help with the manual for the WM but I the Cooks 10° cam is different from a WM 10° cam on the Cooks sharpener. The angle will be the same but the rest of the profile is different.
So that explains why cooks wanted me to throw away all my woodmizer saws and run cooks saws on the woodmizer when I was in the prosess of getting this sharpener set up a couple years ago but the divorse disrupted that.

So I guess the question is can I take a woodmizer cam and retrofit it to the cooks sharpener?
   
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: NMFP on February 14, 2014, 01:25:19 PM
Not sure as I have never run a wm drag type grinder, just cooks.  Typically, there isnt a degree associated with a cam other than the depth of the profile which is drastically different from 4 degree through 13 degree.

I had spoken with the guys at Cooks in regards to a cam for 7 degree bands because I was having issues tracing the profile exactly.  No help whatsoever and only indicated hey could sell me a cam for a cooks band.

The best thing I did was used a pencil and traced the radius of the cam and used electrical tape and built the cam where it needed and work perfectly.  Then took the tracing and made one out of aluminum plate and then had a machine shop cut one out of 1/4 Steel.

I have also found that depending on the degrees you want to sharpen, the numbers on the back of the cooks is different than what it really is, especially with a new wheel.

If you have a cam that works close to what you need, use electrical tape and build it up whereveer needed.  It will get you through until you get parts for your wm sharpener.

Do you have a pcture of your wm sharpener as there is a guy close to me that has an older one as well that I think could be purchased fairly inexpensively.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: LeeB on February 15, 2014, 12:01:31 PM
Woodmizer cams work just fine on a cooks sharpener.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: backwoods sawyer on February 15, 2014, 03:43:24 PM
Woodmizer cams work just fine on a cooks sharpener.

I have an assortment of cams but they have different mounts.


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/PART_1392495370874.jpg)   


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/IMG_20140215_120913.jpg)
This cam is for the cooks 8* saws with 1" spacing using a 3/8 stone
 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/IMG_20140215_121020.jpg)
 cam on the cooks


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/IMG_20140215_120220.jpg)
cam on the woodmizer


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/IMG_20140215_120305.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: NMFP on February 15, 2014, 03:56:46 PM
Is that a cbn wheel with coolant?  Do you have a picture of the whole machine?  If so, I will see if its the same as the one a guy close to me has.  I know he doesn't use his anymore and talked about selling it cheap.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: backwoods sawyer on February 15, 2014, 05:55:41 PM
It is the standard drag style sharpener


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/IMG_20140215_134646.jpg) 
the vertical adjustmet is where i have issues. the linkage bottems out and dose not allow it to ride on the cam.


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/PART_1392501137794.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: pine on February 15, 2014, 06:14:31 PM
Not the answer you are looking for but I am pretty sure that you can get a 10 degree WM cam for the Cooks Cat Claw but not so sure about 7 degree.  They have cams for quite a few different manufacturer blades.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: NMFP on February 15, 2014, 08:45:13 PM
I tried to get a wm cam for a cooks machine about a year ago.  The lady in the office was nice but wanted no parts of making a cam that would be deep enough for the 7 degree bands.  Just a shot in the dark but maybe try calling Suffolk Machine and see if they can make you one.  They made me a cam years ago for a band they produced. 
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: LeeB on February 16, 2014, 01:24:11 AM
I seem to remember getting some made by Menominee Saw once upon a time.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: woodyone.john on February 16, 2014, 03:38:18 AM
Hey Backwoods 'if you use a cbn couldn't you use any cam .Doesn't it the, grind wheel, just have to go up and down.I am no expert but mine was once a drag sharpener i believe. check out my sharpener mods in my gallery.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: backwoods sawyer on February 17, 2014, 03:00:39 AM
I apriciate all the in put,

The grinding wheel is not a full profile wheel, but a nerrow cbn for the drag style.
What would it take to make this just a plung grinder using a wider wheel?
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: NMFP on February 17, 2014, 06:16:06 AM
As I have not seen a wm drag type myself, I would have to guess that you could not do it for the following reasons:

1.Arbor is probably too short to put the new type cbn whels on
2.  cam would need to be changed to allow a basic up and down patter for advancement only.  As you see now, the wheel traces the back of the tooth by the indexing pawl dragging across it.
3.  You will need to make a way to cool the wheel from both sides as you will generate a lot of heat in the coolant, probably oil
4.  need a reservoir to hold the oil or coolant along with a pump to pump it
5.  not sure if your motors will take the load as I am sure they are on the small size and not overkill on power.

You could probably get a used cbn sharpener for about 1500 or so I would imagine.  Just look around.  I have bought a lot of sharpening equipment over the years and just bout 2 pro cbn models used this past year.  Have my eyes on a 3rd right now too!
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on February 17, 2014, 06:59:42 AM
When I ordered my Cook's Cat Claw sharpener, Tim asked what blades I was going to use and I told him Wood-Mizer 10° and they sent me the proper cam!
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: LeeB on February 17, 2014, 09:23:40 AM
Unless the machines have drastically changed, the woodmizer cam will fiton the cooks grinder. So will Suffolk. I have used all three.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: pineywoods on February 17, 2014, 10:15:05 AM
I apriciate all the in put,

The grinding wheel is not a full profile wheel, but a nerrow cbn for the drag style.
What would it take to make this just a plung grinder using a wider wheel?

Probably require a different cam. On my to-do list is a project to use a regular 1 inch wide grinder wheel shaped to match the blade profile and a custom built cam. Don't want to lay out the cash for a cbn wheel until I get everything else working. It's a ways down on the list. Would you believe I have more projects than I have time ?   ::)
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: Remle on February 20, 2014, 04:47:11 PM
I have a 1994 era drag sharpener. Per your pictures they haven't changed much. First off they set tooth angle by tipping the motor to tip the grind wheel to the desired angle, no special cams required. From your pictures yours is missing a spring on the lever that holds the lift lever follower bearing up to the cam to raise and lower the wheel and advance the blade. Their are to small j hooks on the bottom of the side supports, the spring goes over the top of the lever and hooks holding lever up, it's about 1/4" diameter and say 2" long. Other than that it is way out of adjustment. Center the lever adjuster screw in the holder, then with a blade install in the clamps ( best to use a broken piece of blade at this point until you get the hang of setting it up )  adjust the vertical rod attaching the cam lever to motor pivot arm so it sits in the bottom of the gullet. You all  so need the lift wheel to be at the smallest radius to the bearing on the rt end of the lift arm to do this. From their it is a matter of fine adjustments with the thumb screws for grinding and tooth advancement . I just kiss the back top edge of the tooth as the blade advances and then grind the angle on the front of the tooth when it drops. Sorry I did not get any books or parts diagrams when I bought my sharpener used. Since you all ready sharpen blades forgive my explanation if it seems odd.  I have never had any instruction on operating my sharpener, this is just the way I do it ,right or wrong.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: Stephen on February 25, 2014, 08:35:16 AM
I bought my mill and sharpener in 1996. I have the Owner/Operator's Manual dated 1993, scanned in .tif format - about 2mb.
Am I allowed to post it direct? Anyone wan to add it to the 'tool box'?
Otherwise PM me. (I have it in .pdf, but it's 13mb.)
Stephen in Nova Scotia.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: HaroldSiefke on February 25, 2014, 10:39:43 PM
I have one of these sharpener also I sharpen supper sharp cooks blades on my grinder with a cooks cam ....
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on February 26, 2014, 07:31:35 AM
I have several cams for my Cooks cats claw truth be known theirs little difference between them.I like the Timberwolf gullet shape and use that cam on almost everything, sometimes the gullet doesn't clean til the second or third grind. I think things have changed but Suffolk used to sell the Cooks grinder and cams. The cam for Simonds bands is also close to many profiles. Prehaps I'am a crude old dude but minor differences in gullet shape don't amount to a row of peas, sharp and set is what matters. Frank C.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: LeeB on February 26, 2014, 08:30:53 AM
x2
I've modified most of mine anyway.
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: Stephen on February 26, 2014, 11:33:39 AM
In an image above, looks like the blade push rod is up-side-down on the cam.
Hope this is usefull (Warning 3.5Mb, not great but 150dpi)

Stephen from Nova Scotia
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: Remle on February 27, 2014, 10:23:20 AM
Stephen
Thanks for the information, you never know when you may need a part #. Remle
Title: Re: Looking for a manual for a woodmizer sharpener
Post by: backwoods sawyer on March 20, 2014, 11:00:30 AM
 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17725/IMG_20140319_140540.jpg)


pulled the cooks sharpener out and set it up today, none of the cams matched up to the 10* woodmizer saws, so I added larger wheels which raised the saw up in the holder and used the 12* pin this made a slight change in positioning so the cooks 8* cam was a close match to the tooth profile. Using one of Tommone's sharpening wheels and making light passes to avoid seeing any color, after about three passes avoiding the face of the tooth it was getting a full grind and another couple passes adjusted to include the face of the tooth was providing expectable results.
The extra time on the sharpener ment little Jo had plenty of saws set and ready for sharpening. We got two boxes of saws sharpened in an afternoon, and another box set and ready to be sharpened.