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General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: OH logger on July 25, 2017, 09:14:19 PM

Title: tigercats new skidder
Post by: OH logger on July 25, 2017, 09:14:19 PM
the not so local tigercat salesman stopped in this evening and was tellin me about the new small grapple skidder they got comin out. its a touch bigger than deeres 548 g111. you can get a cable machine or a grapple with either a dual arch OR a SWING boom. he seemed pretty pumped up about it (go figure). I have no experience with tigercat but ive heard good things only about them. its called a 602 and they will have one at the paul bunyan show. its nice to see that someone cares about the small loggers in this part of the world  ;)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on July 25, 2017, 10:02:15 PM
Im trying to go see one myself, I live pretty close to where they are made .
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on July 25, 2017, 10:47:31 PM
The TC 602 is likely to be what is called a pre-production prototype. TC would be displaying the skidder to gauge the level of interest in a smaller skidder before committing to build it as a production model.
http://www.tigercat.com/602-skidder/ (two prototype602s were displayed at Les Cognees in France)

https://youtu.be/TdQy1kMJcSo
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on July 26, 2017, 06:45:49 AM
I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: OH logger on July 26, 2017, 07:16:10 AM
I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that

that is an option. either front axle pivot or the oscillating frame like the old franklins. u might as well get on ordered coxy ;). no excuses now  ;D they have fiat motors in them that are branded tigercat. not sure about them. they have only been usin them since 2015. he said as far as tier 4 motors they are the simplest
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on July 26, 2017, 07:58:36 AM
fiat!!?? ??? ??? I have never heard any good about fiat. do they have a industrial line where they make bigger engines??
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: snowstorm on July 26, 2017, 08:24:04 AM
Fiat or fpt owns new Holland case and more. Iveco is also there's . There are a few fpt. Marine engines up this way. They also worked with cummins on the 5.9 and 6.7. I was told Ford has a 31 % ownership of fiat. And that the class 8 Ford trucks in Europe are iveco Ford. I have an iveco motor. Very nice motor
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: snowstorm on July 26, 2017, 08:24:49 AM
Fpt= fiat power train
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: reedco on July 26, 2017, 09:24:49 AM
          Fiat owns chrysler (spelling?)  or part of ?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Ox on July 26, 2017, 11:33:57 AM
Some Fiat farm tractors like the 100-90 are labeled as some of the very best tractors ever made.  Just some food for thought.  Little known mechanical gems.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on July 26, 2017, 12:36:44 PM
I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that

that is an option. either front axle pivot or the oscillating frame like the old franklins. u might as well get on ordered coxy ;). no excuses now  ;D they have fiat motors in them that are branded tigercat. not sure about them. they have only been usin them since 2015. he said as far as tier 4 motors they are the simplest
I would buy one but I don't like the color and don't like being in an enclosed cab so I wont be able to order one  ;D 8)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: missouriboy on July 26, 2017, 06:03:04 PM
My wish list just got a lot more expensive  ;D. Wonder if they will price it right for the smaller loggers.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on July 26, 2017, 06:08:35 PM
they have fiat motors in them that are branded tigercat.

I am sure they take " fiat " money for it.  :D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on July 26, 2017, 08:07:40 PM
Fiat PowerTrain Technologies (FPT industrial) make around 3 million engines a year.  FPT Industrial are a subsidiary of CNH Industrial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNH_Industrial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Powertrain_Technologies
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: OH logger on July 26, 2017, 09:45:03 PM

[/quote]I would buy one but I don't like the color and don't like being in an enclosed cab so I wont be able to order one  ;D 8)
[/quote]

you can take the windows out AND they might paint it any color u want...for the right price.  :D  now you HAVE to order one!! I have the salesmans number if u  need it  ;D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Stoneyacrefarm on July 26, 2017, 11:12:39 PM
I want one. !! :D
What's the price on one of these bad boys now. ?
Might have to mortgage the farm to own one.  8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on July 27, 2017, 12:28:18 AM
Ive always been quite confident that our current push towards computerized soft touch fancy pants automated bigger faster quiter more efficient and insanely expensive equipment is not enjoyed by everyone, particularly the cost and complexity of repair at 15k hours.  Im sure that a significant demand could exist for a small winch + DA grapple machine with a 4bt or 6bt, basic spicer/new process/dana/eaton manual tranny and off the shelf manual spool hydraulics with plain old S cam air brakes that actually hold on a hill. Something you can haul on a backhoe trailer with a dually and get parts/hoses at napa.   Maybe even on tractor rubber that doesnt cost $2k per corner. 

  I know load sensing and closed center hydraulics is the cats meow but troubleshooting that stuff is over most guys heads and i sure dont want to be at the whim of the one shop who can source that exclusive obsolute part some day. 

Grapple blade ftw.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on July 27, 2017, 06:43:03 AM
OH logger  going to the logger fest next month I'm shur cj logging will have one ill tell them to send the skidder to roscoe and the payment book to you that way its a win win for both of us  I can show people the skidder and you can show them the thick payment book  ;D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on July 27, 2017, 07:50:58 AM
The new small JD and Cat wheel skidders start at 37K lb and 40 K lbs.
What other new 'small wheel skidders are there? What does it take to end an old wheel skidder?

Awassos MD80 11-12K lb - 80 hp skidder.
http://www.awassos.com/md80.php  (Roxton Falls, Quebec , Canada)
https://youtu.be/Dg5rV_dBA-k

Cat rebuild.
https://youtu.be/t7Qm5JhlRM4
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Stoneyacrefarm on July 27, 2017, 08:45:37 AM
I'll take one of those too ! 8)
Nice videos Riwaka.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on July 27, 2017, 09:31:30 AM
Looks like awassos beat me to it.  How much?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on July 27, 2017, 03:55:21 PM
some one posted about them a while ago and think they are around 80-100k but not a 100%
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ohiowoodchuck on July 27, 2017, 04:09:56 PM
Could buy several good 540's for that much.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: longtime lurker on July 27, 2017, 11:59:17 PM
Ive always been quite confident that our current push towards computerized soft touch fancy pants automated bigger faster quiter more efficient and insanely expensive equipment is not enjoyed by everyone, particularly the cost and complexity of repair at 15k hours.  Im sure that a significant demand could exist for a small winch + DA grapple machine with a 4bt or 6bt, basic spicer/new process/dana/eaton manual tranny and off the shelf manual spool hydraulics with plain old S cam air brakes that actually hold on a hill. Something you can haul on a backhoe trailer with a dually and get parts/hoses at napa.   Maybe even on tractor rubber that doesnt cost $2k per corner. 

  I know load sensing and closed center hydraulics is the cats meow but troubleshooting that stuff is over most guys heads and i sure dont want to be at the whim of the one shop who can source that exclusive obsolute part some day. 

Grapple blade ftw.

Problem is new anything costs, and you've got to figure in all the emissions junk.

On rhe other hand tossing 50k at the devil you know and own already can go a fair way with  component overhauls, and you don't need to spend it all at once. Just pick a place and start.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on August 04, 2017, 03:34:14 AM
At least in 50K overhaul include some paint, some forest/ logging managers etc like to see the shiny paint (even if the machine is well experienced)

https://youtu.be/7aCz8NFhm_8 (602 display with Charlier crane grapple)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on August 04, 2017, 09:53:39 AM
So ive been wondering about swing booms.  I see that theyre typically a love or hate item on skidders (and that seems to be based in whether theyre on the right or wrong task application) ...  I am curious how would a swing boom work as a log loader in the woods.. Within reason, for a one man show.

I have a dozer and offroad forklift.  The forklift has to stay on a generous sized landing where it has room to work, and is terrible at short logs, drops them everywhere, cant spin butts around etc.  The dozer is really slow on long skids but it would be tolerable to forward CTL logs on a home made trailer.   That still means dragging logs to a main trail.  I was thinking a swing boom skidder makes sense if it can fetch and load bucked logs on the trailer parked nearby.  One at a time is tolerable if need be.  Still much faster than using the dozer all the way to the landing.  A forestry trailer with loader could work but wont be able to get off the main trail so logs still need to be dragged to the edge.  I could do that with dozer but iron undercarriage is slow and wear is at a higher price than rubber.

A real log loader is the thing im trying to avoid.  It means getting a road tractor,  building culverts and gravel road entrances etc.  Im trying to find max productivity in the medium duty truck size with the least amount of equipment.  want to stay smaller and do less roadbuilding, less insurance etc.  And id love to leave the forklift home.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on August 04, 2017, 11:42:38 AM
why not find an old army truck that's all wheel drive should be able to put 1-1500bf on it and go that's what some of the guys around here do they also have loaders on them
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on August 04, 2017, 12:56:40 PM
I did find a 5ton with a prentice that woulda been great if i could have afforded it.  Im broke for the forseeable future 

I build machines, thats more whats behind my line of questioning.  I have a complete backhoe off a massey 450hx that i considered putting on back my forklift in place of the counterweight.  Im certain itll work well but the forklift is still a landing only machine that cant really be used much in winter here (it rains but doesnt freeze).  I just wonder if the backhoe bits grafted onto a cable skidder could be a little handier and more capable of getting in the woods.   Plus planting the hoe would make a great high pulley mount to winch up out of the hollars.  Thats where the maturest trees usually are on the sites i get into, the ones skipped by the previous logger.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on August 05, 2017, 12:18:28 AM
You have to figure out your priorities. Is it skidding or loading ?  There is no perfect machine for every task.
I have a Patu swing boom on the back of my skidder, it's not meant to do what the one in the video is doing, but because I am mostly doing firewood and dealing with a lot of small diameter stuff, it's working for me. It has a lot of pros and cons, I can pick up a lost stick on the skid trail with my next drag  or I can pack a couple of them in the grapple on top of the two twitches ( under ideal conditions ) .  It's not a forwarder, visibility is very limited in my case, as the boom is mounted on top of the winch and fairly high. In the bush that can be a disadvantage, as you always have to watch  the hoses on top.  I was thinking of building a trailer  for it but changed my mind, it has also to do with that I can turn my seat only 90 degree and not 180  and I have twelve functions on one joy stick on the right and nothing on the left. I know, that all can be changed, but my point is that there is no " do it all buggy " without limitations.
     
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: barbender on August 05, 2017, 12:45:50 AM
The Euro skidders that have a forwarder crane, clambunk, and 3 winches look like the cat's meow to me.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on August 05, 2017, 08:28:53 AM
The Euro skidders that have a forwarder crane, clambunk, and 3 winches look like the cat's meow to me.

 :D they have just 2 winches  :D

I would also suggest a eurostyle skidder

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuBYffdiQhA
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on August 05, 2017, 09:00:57 AM
Looks like a full loader on front of the welte.  Thats pretty rare.

How much trouble can the swing boom get you into in terms of reaching out too far and rolling over?  Are the hydraulics powerful enough to pull the machine over on flat ground?  Does the blade stabilize things at all?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on August 05, 2017, 05:40:30 PM
those small awassos  skidders are made in Quebec in 2 different horsepower classes and when I seen them the biggest was about $100,000. Looked ok but my feeling was you needed to be in good timber to make them pay, a small 440 jd would out skid them pretty bad , the 602 looks like a nice machine just need to find out the dollar price and see how things like the doors are , the 610 doors weigh a ton and when cable skidding getting in and out 100 times a day does not seem like fun
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on August 05, 2017, 08:39:09 PM
Looks like a full loader on front of the welte.  Thats pretty rare.

How much trouble can the swing boom get you into in terms of reaching out too far and rolling over?  Are the hydraulics powerful enough to pull the machine over on flat ground?  Does the blade stabilize things at all?

The front blade only gets about 5' above ground. I wouldn't call it a loader, more of a stacker.
Of coarse you can get the tires of ground when reaching out too far, but you realize pretty quick when instead lifting a load, the wheels go in the air.
Just drop it or try to drag it closer and then lift. Same thing with any other loader or forwarder, no need to roll it.  :)   
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: longtime lurker on August 06, 2017, 03:20:23 AM
What size dozer are you running mike_belben?  Been a lot of logs loaded with a beak on the blade, though as a system it suits large or long logs.

I think that my perfect solution to doing much with little  would be a larger grapple skidder around a Clark 667 size and a trackloader around cat 953 class on single bar grousers with a winch. Thatd give me the rubber +grapple mix for fast and long hauls and a loader that can go/push where a skidder can't get to.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on August 06, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
Its a komatsu d31P-18..  I think about 17,000 lbs.

I have a case 450 crawler loader up north but need to get my CDL-A before i can haul it down.  Thats been a frusterating challenge.

Its a ways off but i will come up with forks and a thumb to go on the case and thatll be a huge help.  Then i have to decide on which machine is suited for winch or grapple or trailer.  Probably pull trailer with d31 and load with 450 forks.

I wont buy a skidder unless logging turns unexpectedly profitable.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: OH logger on August 06, 2017, 05:01:51 PM
Its a komatsu d31P-18..  I think about 17,000 lbs.

I have a case 450 crawler loader up north but need to get my CDL-A before i can haul it down.  Thats been a frusterating challenge.

Its a ways off but i will come up with forks and a thumb to go on the case and thatll be a huge help.  Then i have to decide on which machine is suited for winch or grapple or trailer.  Probably pull trailer with d31 and load with 450 forks.

I wont buy a skidder unless logging turns unexpectedly profitable.

that last sentence seems to me like an oxymoron. everywhere is soo different but around here and I would assume A LOT of other places it would be hard to be profitable WITHOUT a rubber tire skidder. unless you are in the mountains and in veneer logs a lot. I hope this didn't come off as smart mouthed but that's the way I see it. skidders are faster and  cheaper than dozers to maintain and built for the purpose. but I do understand that loggin is all they can basically do.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: longtime lurker on August 06, 2017, 05:15:25 PM
I had a D31E-18 for about 10 years. Was a handy little machine and it made me some money but eventually it had to go because it was too small for what we tackle regularly. It'd carry a beak well enough if you didnt have a lot of logs over about 1Ĺ ton or so... I never had a beak on mine but I loaded with it a couple times in desperation by chaining logs to the blade.

Plenty hydraulic flow there to run a grapple on one of them but as a machine (the E at least) it was balanced ass heavy for trim work. Any larger logs we pulled with it ended up chained up to the tree spear and we'd come out backwards because coming out forwards didnt seem to work real well. Those useless pivoting rippers didnt help much with getting the front of a log off the ground either.

Because of the longer dead axles on a P I'd be pretty cautious though... unless you're playing swamp loggers a P is going to give you troubles with dead axles/ duocone seals/ general final drive issues in the woods. How much I dont know... we had a better run with a D83P then we did with a D6D swampy so maybe Komatsu have got that right, or at least righter then Cat.

A loader is a machine designed to load, and any pushing is secondary. Kinda obvious but its your best bet loading.
Skidders make money compared with dozers/crawlers.... except when you go to places a skidder cant go.  Also kinda obvious but bears repeating
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Puffergas on August 06, 2017, 06:52:00 PM
Sure like the 125E, forks would be handy. It is a keeper but so is the 225 Timberjack. A wheeled skidder can make production.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/P_20170629_145032.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059452)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/FF3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059336)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/FF2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059283)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/FF1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059215)

Good luck !
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on August 06, 2017, 09:03:04 PM
nice loader   what is the 4x4 monster that's neat
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on August 06, 2017, 09:22:57 PM
Its a komatsu d31P-18..  I think about 17,000 lbs.

I have a case 450 crawler loader up north but need to get my CDL-A before i can haul it down.  Thats been a frusterating challenge.

Its a ways off but i will come up with forks and a thumb to go on the case and thatll be a huge help.  Then i have to decide on which machine is suited for winch or grapple or trailer.  Probably pull trailer with d31 and load with 450 forks.

I wont buy a skidder unless logging turns unexpectedly profitable.

that last sentence seems to me like an oxymoron. everywhere is soo different but around here and I would assume A LOT of other places it would be hard to be profitable WITHOUT a rubber tire skidder. unless you are in the mountains and in veneer logs a lot. I hope this didn't come off as smart mouthed but that's the way I see it. skidders are faster and  cheaper than dozers to maintain and built for the purpose. but I do understand that loggin is all they can basically do.

No harm done and i totally agree.  I guess i should have said 'unless my dozer generates unexpected profits.'

I bought the crawler machines in cash when i had it, for building our homestead.  Im a machinist/welder/fabricator .. But all my equipment is still in storage up north so i had to make money however i could. But ive also got 2 young kids.   Logging and dirt work near home was about the only way i could make my own schedule and bring them with me at times.  Savings is gone and its day by day living now. Hopefully temporary. 

 Im trying to work my way onto some large neighboring tracts with very good HW stands.  Where i can be profitable even at a snails pace.  If the logs will pay for it, and the terms are right ill buy a skidder, but not before then or by debt.  Little by little i'll build one eventually otherwise.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on August 06, 2017, 10:31:02 PM
I had a D31E-18 for about 10 years. Was a handy little machine and it made me some money but eventually it had to go because it was too small for what we tackle regularly. It'd carry a beak well enough if you didnt have a lot of logs over about 1Ĺ ton or so... I never had a beak on mine but I loaded with it a couple times in desperation by chaining logs to the blade.

Plenty hydraulic flow there to run a grapple on one of them but as a machine (the E at least) it was balanced ass heavy for trim work. Any larger logs we pulled with it ended up chained up to the tree spear and we'd come out backwards because coming out forwards didnt seem to work real well. Those useless pivoting rippers didnt help much with getting the front of a log off the ground either.

Because of the longer dead axles on a P I'd be pretty cautious though... unless you're playing swamp loggers a P is going to give you troubles with dead axles/ duocone seals/ general final drive issues in the woods. How much I dont know... we had a better run with a D83P then we did with a D6D swampy so maybe Komatsu have got that right, or at least righter then Cat.

A loader is a machine designed to load, and any pushing is secondary. Kinda obvious but its your best bet loading.
Skidders make money compared with dozers/crawlers.... except when you go to places a skidder cant go.  Also kinda obvious but bears repeating

Mine had new finals, sprockets and rails put on just before i got it.. So i guess theyre still a weak link on the 18.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0626171937.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500860846)

The wide pads are a life saver here all winter. Ground doesnt freeze

 I skid backwards off the blade too.  No winch at all yet but im considering putting it on front.  You can make the log dance around everything when pulling off a 6 way blade.  I have a fused neck, cant turn around anyway so its fine by me.   Junk like this doesnt pay and takes forever to rig up.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20170322_174531.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490239643)

Thats a 41' stick that pays $200 and i can do em 2 at a time..  The pay rate is tolerable enough to continue as i am on good timber.  It'll never hang with a skidder but also do ponds, pads, roads, clearing etc. 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0522171854.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502071848)

My foremen.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0720171449a-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501081891)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20170317_145708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489819125)



(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0713171508.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500010339)


So were you parbuckling logs on with the dozer? Im trying to picture this. 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on August 07, 2017, 08:52:59 AM
The greenish tractor is likely to be a Steiger (unless someone has used the green paint on something else). Steiger had a number of different models so the spec of the tractor needs to checked for id.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: longtime lurker on August 07, 2017, 04:05:10 PM
I've never parbuckled a log before, and not in any hurry to do so.

We use wheel loaders where we can. If thats not available (not enough logs to justify shifting a loader/logs too big for a loader to handle) we ramp them. So we push up an earth ramp with the dozer, run the truck in alongside it, then using two saplings for skids we push the log up the ramp and across onto the truck. As a method it works well with big logs or where you'll hit your tonnage in two or three layers of wood on the truck.

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/32746/logtruckloading.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502135911)

A beak is a hydraulic thumb in the middle of the blade that works like a top clamp on a log loader does. It holds the log to the blade which gives greater control when loading off a ramp and means you dont need the saplings to bridge the gap between ramp face and truck. Dozers can lift a lot if it's secured to the blade... gotta remember that those hydraulics can lift up the front half of the dozer and in your case thats like 4 ton.




Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on August 07, 2017, 04:15:16 PM
Gotcha, thanks for the explanation
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Puffergas on August 09, 2017, 05:58:58 AM
Coxy, it's a farm tractor made by Steiger. It is a lot like their Bearcat model but this one was originally sold to AC but got repainted back to Steiger green, a long time ago, by a dealer I'm guessing. Steiger has an interesting history.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on August 09, 2017, 07:24:42 AM
wouldn't take much to put a winch and arch on there  ;D does it seem to get around as good as a skidder would
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Puffergas on August 09, 2017, 07:30:27 PM
Coxy, it gets around like a small tractor. Steiger did make a few skidder. My guess would be that they would be a bit tipsy. But I could find a place for one of them ! !
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on August 11, 2017, 06:49:56 PM
was at Tigercat head office today, they are building a new 602 right now so going to go see it here shortly , their waiting on the back frame half right now
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on September 13, 2017, 06:09:49 AM
602 testing - giving it the big pull at the end - loaded grapple and winch.
https://youtu.be/Pmi2cdfd0Kg
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on September 13, 2017, 06:38:10 AM
I go to the tigercat plant the week of the 25th to see the new 602 cable ,its to be ready to drive then
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: JBS 181 on September 13, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
In response to Mike. As he was asking about using a swing boom as a log loader. I have a experienced logger whom brings me logs on occasion and that is how he loads his trailer., ie 28' dual goose neck. I fabricated him up some bunks for it some time back. He grabs a hand full of logs and pulls up along side and sets them in the bunks. Never seen him do it but I am sure he gets by with out busting up too much stuff as I have not had to do any repair yet. He is a one man operation.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: OH logger on September 13, 2017, 09:28:52 PM
me and a buddy went to ricer equipment (our tigercat dealer) a couple weeks ago and supposedly the first 602 will be at the bunyan show this year. he says he already has two of them sold. he thnks the swing boom will be mainly a Europe machine and the dual arch for America. no single arch made as of yet.do you think these machines will catch on with everything..well most everything getting bigger and log prices NOT getting bigger? i mean that deere already made a smaller sized machine in the 548 size. if the market for these size machines was there it would have been far cheaper for them to modify the 548 to fit the emiisions motor in the motor compartment than for tigercat to start from scratch on this smaller machine. i don't get it. thank God tigercat is WAY smarter than this dumb tree cutter and they prolly got that figured out too.   ;D    I noticed in the video it almost looks like the grapple is not continuous rotation could this be?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on September 14, 2017, 06:01:23 AM
John Deere does the 'Powertrain Relife Plus' scheme for the 540 Glll,(sn 604614 onwards), 548  Glll, (sn 604614 onwards), 540H, 548H, 640H, 648H, 748H, 848H.
Reman on the engine, trans, main hydraulic pump (optional) and axles.
Reman on the old engines that do not require the emissions equipment?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: longtime lurker on December 03, 2017, 05:15:26 AM
So you dont see something for ages and then... there it is. And you got to wander back and find where you'd mentioned the thing in a post "sometime in the last 6 months" :D

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/32746/dozer_beak.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512295581)

So this would be a dozer with a beak fitted. Havent seen one for years. Anyhow as you can see its lift height is limited but if you push up a ramp to get the dozer up to trailer height (or doze a slot to get the trailer down to dozer height) it does give you quite a degree of control to lift them on... and one thing I'll give a dozer is they will lift. Probably not the way I'd be wanting to load lots of small logs - its more suited to logs where you hit your weight quick - but it can be done and when you already own the dozer its a cheap way to handle the odd bigger log.

Never seen one on a PAT blade before. If she was a D53 I'd be going for a look at that one methinks.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on December 03, 2017, 07:51:53 AM
that's neat       the tracks with the holes in the pads are great all the new tracks don't have the holes punched in them you have to do it your self
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on December 03, 2017, 08:03:51 AM
Awesome, thanks for uploading.


My dirtwork life started with a garden tractor and snow plow that kept getting modified.  The plow blade got a hydraulic grapple built similar to that dozer clamp and life has never been the same.   

Someday ill get my dozer outfitted as good as that mower.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: modifier on December 03, 2017, 09:12:45 AM
What is it you don't like about having a front cradle?  I remember reading a large thread somewhere talking about oscillating frame vs front pivot and only a couple of the guys liked the rear moving rather than the front.  But it's possible that since almost all skidders are front pivot most people have never operated one with and oscillating frame.  The guys who did like an oscillating frame said they thought they were better in very rough terrain at keeping all tires on the ground. Others who had been on both said they thought oscillating frame was not as predictable as a front pivoting cradle.  I think another name for front pivot is walking beam suspension, even though that is usually used for describing the use of beams on the rear of trucks with tandem axles. What's your experience?   

I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ga jones on December 04, 2017, 09:12:24 AM
The Franklinís and Cat 518 Iíve been around have better traction more sure footed.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on December 04, 2017, 08:24:58 PM
And which style pivots do they have?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: OH logger on December 04, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
And which style pivots do they have?

oscillating
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Puffergas on December 05, 2017, 07:39:10 PM
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/Bearcat.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1483321384)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/225D-frontLeftCorner.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1471569946)

I have both, TJ and a small tractor (by today's standards). I do not use them every day and they are rather new to me. They both get herrrr done. I like them both but of course the tractor is not in the woods much but maneuvers like a real small tractor.

I like the oscillating frame the best because of maintenance. I am dreading replacing the cradle pins in the TJ. I think the oscillator is a simpler design and works well. The cradle has designed in travel limits. It is easier to design the travel snubbers into it.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/IMG_20150315_144205.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1426460799)


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/IMG_20150315_144107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1426461551)

OK, I have two oscillators.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: DPrest on February 23, 2018, 01:59:46 PM
I go to the tigercat plant the week of the 25th to see the new 602 cable ,its to be ready to drive then
ehp, just wondering if you ever did end up checking out the 602 cable, and if so what your thoughts were. Anyone else get any closer to seeing one run or getting a quote?
FYI, first post here, long time lingerer...
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on February 23, 2018, 03:04:57 PM
I go to the tigercat plant the week of the 25th to see the new 602 cable ,its to be ready to drive then
ehp, just wondering if you ever did end up checking out the 602 cable, and if so what your thoughts were. Anyone else get any closer to seeing one run or getting a quote?
FYI, first post here, long lingerer...
Likewise, interested in a report on the 602.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on February 23, 2018, 06:31:37 PM
Ya I went up and seen the 602, they also had 2 others being built and sounds like lots of interest in this skidder
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on February 23, 2018, 07:12:20 PM
think their about $250,000 USA for a new one , compared to the older skidder their a good size but I guess small by todays standard , their a lot bigger than my old 230A and I mean a lot . Im pretty sure for around here I would be running 28 L on it for tires instead of the 23.1. Quite abit of weight on the front axle and Im sure would find you every sink hole in the bush with the smaller tires
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 23, 2018, 09:55:37 PM
250k for a "smallish" skidder is still a lot more than most uf us people can pay!
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on February 23, 2018, 10:08:27 PM
 ya but I priced a 648 L last spring and $316,000 plus 13% tax was the price for it , just way way to big of a machine to log in my area , by-law would not even let you drive that in the bush here
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: DPrest on February 24, 2018, 08:27:55 AM
Thanks for the feedback, ehp.

Teakwood, I agree, its hard to justify. Here in the Maritime Provinces we just don't have the quality wood to run one steady and make the payments. Without driving your woodlots into the ground, you'd have to be into a prime run of wood.

Interesting considering they're installing crane loaders on these in Europe already. Says a lot of the quality of wood and wood prices that they've got over there compared to ours here (NB, NS, at least).

Tigercat DWC602 preview - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1cBgjWfBo) .

Supporting payments on a $400,000 + skidder in selection treatments is no simple task.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on February 24, 2018, 08:44:19 AM
Europe is completely different, they have requirements we don't have in the states. Plus when you don't have to ship like a harvester over or a crane on the slow boat through a distributor it makes a huge difference in price. 250 for the size the machine is isn't bad at all but being a cable machine I don't see one selling the PNW unless someone buys it to anchor with for tethering a CTL setup. This last year I've been around a few guys from Rottne Sweden they've never seen our setups for a swinging grapple till they were out here they said they were amazed at how much heavier it was compared to the crane setups they use, when you're handing the lighter smaller wood they have their it makes sense.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on February 24, 2018, 09:32:20 AM
Quote
Supporting payments on a $400,000 + skidder in selection treatments is no simple task.

I suspect that there are a number of timber groups made up of investors who arent trying to generate cash from timber, but tax deductions for wealth already created.  You cant just make your fortune and park it in the bank, you have to continually expand into new expenses if you want to keep last years income.  When the depreciation table is used up on those assets you buy new or buy more or expand into a new market all over.  Not exactly the same, but Its why mobsters buy construction companies, hotels, bars, nightclubs.  To launder illegal income and generate "losses" to keep it.  

Unfortunately, the rich kids playing in the woods skews the cost scale on the poor kids trying to play in the woods too.  

Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on February 24, 2018, 04:05:16 PM
Mike your going to need to get one this year for a rightoff  :D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on February 24, 2018, 04:21:29 PM
It would be right to have the writeoff. 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on February 24, 2018, 06:25:36 PM
If i wrote off one forestry tire theyd send me an earned income credit.  


Regardless, i will take a rightoff over a leftoff any day.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: gaproperty on February 24, 2018, 07:43:20 PM
Man what a beautiful looking rig.  i use a kubota tractor, logging winch and a logging trailer but it has it's limitations. I bought a backhoe attachment so i can make better roads.  I want to buy my own woodlot because I am putting to much time into building roads for somebody else. Guess if I had that skidder I wouldn't have to build roads. 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on February 24, 2018, 08:12:55 PM
Yes and no, anytime you can make your turns are short and as fast as possible the production you can do but rock costs a lot of money.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on February 24, 2018, 11:49:26 PM
Dude rock has gone waaay up in the last 2 years here.  Shotrock now costs what 1.5" minus used to.  I honestly believe its cheaper to put down geotextile at this point.  I have a section of rock on clay 12" thick thats not as solid as the patch with barely three inches of 3minus over fabric.  The stuff is a miracle. $500 a roll. 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 25, 2018, 07:51:51 AM
Posted by: DPrest
 ę on: Yesterday at 07:27:55 AM Ľ
 


Thanks for the feedback, ehp.

Teakwood, I agree, its hard to justify. Here in the Maritime Provinces we just don't have the quality wood to run one steady and make the payments. Without driving your woodlots into the ground, you'd have to be into a prime run of wood.

Interesting considering they're installing crane loaders on these in Europe already. Says a lot of the quality of wood and wood prices that they've got over there compared to ours here (NB, NS, at least).

Tigercat DWC602 preview - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1cBgjWfBo) .

Supporting payments on a $400,000 + skidder in selection treatments is no simple task.

Thats a nice machine, the perfect combination i would need. The video is just rubbish, no close up details, who cares about 10 birdviews(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/huh.gif), i get it, the guy loves his drone but the video is just bad.

the prices in europe aren't any different than in America unless you have oak. I can't opinion about the rest of europe but in Switzerland the wages are just so high that any price on a machine is justified. The absolute minimal wage for a woodworker is starting at 4500$/month and that is right after apprenticeship at the age of 20. after that it just goes up and up.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on February 25, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Aha!  So that explains it.  Entry level logging pays $10 here.  So does equipment operator. 

About a month ago i had someone ask me to climb and top some yard trees for $8 an hour.  Said thats the goin rate.  
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 25, 2018, 08:58:54 AM
8$ for such dangerous work(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/shocked.gif), that's just crazy
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 25, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
A good operator with experience will earn at least 6k+ a month. and that's on a 42h week. 8.25h per day, monday to friday. every hour overtime is payed extra.
4-5 weeks payed holiday a year, around 8-10 days of legal holidays (eastern, new year,...) also payed, insurance payed 50/50 (employer/ employee), a 13. salary end of the year,  did i forget something..???  

But: there is no coming late to work, no missing days, no half speed working, there is much pressure to get the job done, lots of responsibility and for a good boss you would do anything.
if your a bad employee you get fired real quick.

Here in CR i'm just glad if somebody shows up at work in the morning and we just don't loose another day. The salary isn't great around here but if you pay them more they won't show up for work anyways because they have more money know so they need to work less (http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on February 25, 2018, 09:06:52 AM
The good money is out here in the PNW in the fir I'm not sure what they're paying down in the redwoods in Southern Oregon and California. Here's the kicker a machine like that would never sell new out here you have to produce decent, our export fir is at 900, cedar last I heard was 1500+, and alder was going up past 900-1000 range all are real easy to find here.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on February 25, 2018, 09:07:43 AM
Thought the same thing about the video. Somebody explaining the machine would be more interesting than listening to music.
World population grew about 1.5 billion in the last twenty years and now we have too many people chasing the same things and the fewer jobs due to automation.
Don't see what the point is taking on payments on a piece of equipment like that. You have to have steady work to keep up with all the expenses and have to be willing to travel and not be home for days.
That's just my thinking and I may be stuck with it. :D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on February 25, 2018, 09:13:52 AM
For my region Its another unexpected consequence of the prescription painkiller epidemic. 

Every pill and needle addict who can steal a handsaw and bum a ride is in the tree business.  They drive around knocking on doors looking for that little $30 labor job. When you hire em theyre looking at whats behind your garage to grab later.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 25, 2018, 09:23:19 AM
Switzerland has the highest wages of the world, that's why you see them Swiss people (i don't have the big salary anymore(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cry.gif)) vacationing all over the world because everywhere they go its cheaper than in Switzerland ! You can go wherever you want and you will find a Swiss traveling. and we are just 7.5 millions habitants of which 2mio are foreigners   
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on February 25, 2018, 10:06:48 AM
But CR must have something Switzerland doesn't have, right. ;) ;D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 25, 2018, 10:40:30 AM
Of course and i was expecting that question.(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)

The freedom i have here and to be my own boss, that's priceless.  I have different projects going on and i do so much different work around my place it never gets bored.
you grab a profession your not qualified in, study it a little bit, make some trial runs and pretty fast you do a better job than the locals.
i'm licensed construction worker (stone, concrete) in Switzerland, i could not work as a woodworker there. Here i make furnitures (and pretty nice ones also) i charge twice what the locals charge and i have a list of costumers waiting for 6-8 month to get their furniture because i'm occupied in my teak plantations now for 4 month. so they just wait because they know they'll get a supreme quality piece of furniture.

and then there are the girls and the beaches  (http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/grin.gif)    
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: thecfarm on February 25, 2018, 12:09:29 PM
Aha!  So that explains it.  Entry level logging pays $10 here.  So does equipment operator.

About a month ago i had someone ask me to climb and top some yard trees for $8 an hour.  Said thats the goin rate.  

 

 :o And one more. :o
That is minimum wage in the state of Maine. As I asked before,how much is fuel,price of a saw,equipment? I don't do that type of work,but I would probably just walk away from someone that said that to me. The area I live in has only the paper mill for a good paying job. Nothing here for money in this area.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on February 25, 2018, 02:13:53 PM
I told him if i was ever gonna gaff up hourly, it wasnt gonna be for less than $30 so hide your stuff and call your favorite pillhead. 

Another guy, neighbor of someone i did a job for, waits until ive bobcat loaded and chained down and driving away, to flag me down and say hey you wanna look at a "quick little job."  Yeah sure what is it.  Wants me to move probably 15 loads of woodchips across his yard to a garden.  Its raining, yard is very soft and hes got a nice lawn and driveway i have to go over.  I said i have to go home and get boards to drive on.  I need the work, tell him $500.  He says how about a hundred.   

Buddy its a hundred for me to unchain it.  If i wanted to waste my day and burn up fuel i got plenty of stuff to move around my own yard.  I told him every pile would take 50 trips, what, no way.  

Go rent one yourself and find out.  It bet it takes you 3 days.  
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 25, 2018, 03:29:33 PM
i respect that a lot mike! if they don't pay your price they can look for somebody else, period!

A job well done has its price.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: pinefeller on February 25, 2018, 08:18:21 PM
the sad part is that there is another idiot that will practically pay you to do the job (yeah i meant to say that) its absolutely ridiculous. of course they are just bored and getting a free government paychecks (that we funded) and living off food stamps so this is just cigarette money for them.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on February 25, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
and then there are the girls and the beaches  (http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/grin.gif)

I knew there has to be more than snakes, scorpions and teak.  8)

You sure do some nice wood working. smiley_thumbsup 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on February 26, 2018, 06:54:46 AM
(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) Hahaha, there is always more in a man's life than just work!

Don't forget the beer and rum also!(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on March 08, 2018, 01:26:17 PM
TC 602 - Ohio in the snow - drone   (168hp - approximately 28K lbs, 13 metric tonnes?  https://www.tigercat.com/product/602-skidder/ 
Tigercat TV 602 Winch Skidder in Ohio - YouTube (https://youtu.be/l2uJoN0qarM)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on March 08, 2018, 05:00:33 PM
If it's a promo video why do they haul just half a load??(http://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on March 08, 2018, 06:43:29 PM
The skidder's engine is probably still in the break in phase for a brand new engine. (A 'let's see how much this machine can pull' in the first few hours can have consequences later on)
i.e running the engine up to 70-80% only during the first 150 hours.
Breaking in a Diesel Engine - Wolter Group LLC (http://www.woltergroupllc.com/breaking-in-a-diesel-engine/)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on March 08, 2018, 07:35:23 PM
i was always told to brake things in like your going to run it all the time  i have rebuilt  diesels mostly Detroit and ran them hard from the start and no trouble  ;D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on March 08, 2018, 08:07:21 PM
I built race engines full time for a few years. I can confidently say that it takes high cylinder pressure to push the rings out against the fresh hone tooth to file down the ring high spots so that the low spots are able to come up to the bore edge and make a full seal.  You can only do this while the hone peaks last which is not long at all.   Once theyre worn off the hone stops shaping the ring. Static ring tension is not enough, it takes load.  Gentle breakins have been a sure source of oil consumption in my experience.

My race engines got broke in at the burnout box and would have 1% leakdown from that moment, getting looser therafter.  Street motors id run through a cycle about 20 mins long.  Lots of letting off hard to pull high manifold vacuum which would collapse the ring into the piston and spare some crosshatch on the intake stroke.  Diesels dont have that option but i still break in with a pulsing heavy foot that gets progressively harder.

I dont know why thats still a conventional wisdom but i cant ignore evidence when i see it or im just lying to myself.   
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: longtime lurker on March 09, 2018, 04:38:41 PM
I tell ya after the run I've had with logging equipment in the last 6 months that new thing with warranty is starting to look cheap at the end of the month. The only questions are dual arch or swing boom... and where to find a quarter million dollars. :D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on March 09, 2018, 04:50:44 PM
the bank they have millions you haven't got yet  :D :D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on March 09, 2018, 07:42:42 PM
Actually they don't, they make them out of thin air. :o
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Matt601 on March 09, 2018, 11:03:07 PM
Does anyone have a price on the 602? 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on March 11, 2018, 03:51:52 AM
Actually they don't, they make them out of thin air. :o
You hit the nail on the head there! The same applies for governments 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on March 11, 2018, 05:02:09 AM
Common rail engines often have fancy coated piston rings- mahle and others dlc (chromium nitride) coat the piston rings by pvd physical vapour deposition to improve fuel economy - reduced friction. Also probably because of wear caused by egr muck.

MAHLE Group | Piston rings with high-value PVD coating for high-speed diesel engines (http://www.mahle.com/en/news-and-press/press-releases/piston-rings-with-high-value-pvd-coating-for-high-speed-diesel-engines-503)
?? Does the Fiat engine in the Tigercat have coated rings? need to take it easy when the engine is tight in the first 20 hours so you don't ruin the piston coating coating?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: lopet on March 11, 2018, 09:55:20 AM
You hit the nail on the head there! The same applies for governments
I can go further and of the cliff and then the whole post gets deleted.
Folks should look up  " Hidden secrets of money " It shows how the elite enslaves humanity.

I got out of debt a few years ago by selling some farm land and now I can do what I want and work when I feel like.  8) 8)  Life is too short !!!

Sorry for getting of subject here.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on March 11, 2018, 10:01:32 AM
there is no better feeling than being debt free!
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: kiko on March 11, 2018, 10:32:38 PM
Joke of the day: FPT fully supported by TC.  Warranty , service, and... parts.   As long as you don't ever need any internal engine parts or you can afford the 30k for a new engine you are good.  If you demand the parts you can wait weeks while they order the parts from case and attempt to hide the case part numbers with stickers with TC parts numbers. Maybe they just need to catch up to their proclamation.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on May 24, 2018, 06:48:27 AM
Tigercat DW 602 - France (might require a bit of translation)

Tigercat DW602 first impressions - YouTube (https://youtu.be/PS3XQxMyNeQ)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on May 24, 2018, 10:09:37 AM
so why would a french canadian group sell a skidder in the EU but not in NA?
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on May 25, 2018, 07:27:34 AM
Easier regulations and thatís where the market is most of NA is after a big skidder.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: coxy on May 25, 2018, 09:02:07 PM
of course they can pull the other skidder it has bald tires  ;D ;D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on May 25, 2018, 09:19:12 PM
Easier regulations and thatís where the market is most of NA is after a big skidder.
France and Switzerland make the U.S.A regs look weak and easy by comp. Which really only leaves the marketing aspect of it all.  I'd almost buy a used one there in 4 years and ship it back here.  The engine has to be a cummins or something like that so it will have EPA tags.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on May 25, 2018, 10:22:30 PM
Their regulations are different then ours here in the states, take a new car diesel or even a diesel in a machine thereís two versions because how the emissions are measured. 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: snowstorm on May 26, 2018, 06:32:01 AM
Easier regulations and thatís where the market is most of NA is after a big skidder.
France and Switzerland make the U.S.A regs look weak and easy by comp. Which really only leaves the marketing aspect of it all.  I'd almost buy a used one there in 4 years and ship it back here.  The engine has to be a cummins or something like that so it will have EPA tags.
i was in france last week. south of france as they call it. they still run lots of 2 stroke scooters
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on May 26, 2018, 07:35:29 AM
Their regulations are different then ours here in the states, take a new car diesel or even a diesel in a machine thereís two versions because how the emissions are measured.
you know right you are.  Our emissions regs have been much tougher than the EU (fraudsters). Didn't think of that.  But the EU will be tightening those up since after the VW scandal it come to light that the car companies in europe were completely gaming even the weak regs.  But for now, yeah emissions is an area the US has the toughest, best, real standards in the world.  Tigercat's engine is going to have EPA tags though, all the big diesel's do (cummins, MB, etc). 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on May 26, 2018, 07:52:22 AM
If clean exhaust is the priority then natural gas (mostly methane) has around 80 percent less emissions than diesel. A natural gas engine's exhaust can be treated with just a catalytic converter( according to this)
Fiat Power Train engine - (methane engine in New Holland tractor part of case new holland etc Fiat subsidiary)
How much would it take to solve the logistics of natural gas powered woods equipment?

The New Holland Agriculture Methane Powered Concept Tractor (Full Version) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/WHjBw2HnR8E?t=4m18s)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on May 26, 2018, 07:53:51 AM
Itís not that they are weaker itís they measure the particulate differently then we do, they are already requiring final tier 5 next year. Last year we were at timber pro talking to Lee they were having problems with Cummins meeting all the new standards for both US and EU since they are so different in requirements. Is it an engine they use in anything else? If not then it may never see the tag and could never get imported.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on May 26, 2018, 07:55:37 AM
Natural gas and gasoline are no longer used in equipment for a reason for a fuel they donít carry near the power per gallon of fuel.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on May 26, 2018, 10:20:07 AM
Itís not that they are weaker itís they measure the particulate differently then we do, they are already requiring final tier 5 next year. Last year we were at timber pro talking to Lee they were having problems with Cummins meeting all the new standards for both US and EU since they are so different in requirements. Is it an engine they use in anything else? If not then it may never see the tag and could never get imported.
Well how can I say this...up to 2 years ago the EU had regulations but they were not enforced at all.  Manufacturers self certified and did it in clean rooms with unbelievable #s.  In real world conditions, like EPA tests, the cars were xxx% higher in pollutants than they should have been.  I could imagine heavy equipment would have been the same but I don't know.  Now, 2 years post VW scandal all that is changing and when the EU actually regulates something it is tough, much less negotiation than with the EPA.  Especially with diesel the EU was going for low carbon dioxide and the EPA measuring human health worries (particulate size, NOx, etc)  NOx is the cause of smog, or a major one, and that's one of the huge gains we've made in USA.  Go to Europe and in winter look at the window, you can't see more than a mile or two in a city, smog is terrible- horrible impacts on human health.  EU gambled on diesel at the expense of local human health and now the people in EU have figured out they've been gamed, the bat crazy EU rules on emissions are coming around and will look more like the USAs.  That said outside engine emissions the EU regulatory environment is tough.  
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on May 26, 2018, 02:07:38 PM
Seems like a fitting time to throw out two pertinent sidenotes.  The city of hamburg germany just passed a ban on older diesel cars, and the international maritime organization is forcing all container ships to upgrade engines to some new emission standard in the coming year or two.  
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on May 26, 2018, 05:32:12 PM
Seems like a fitting time to throw out two pertinent sidenotes.  The city of hamburg germany just passed a ban on older diesel cars, and the international maritime organization is forcing all container ships to upgrade engines to some new emission standard in the coming year or two.  
Yeah things they are a changing in the EU, especially the incredibly hypocritical Germans ( oh we are green oh we are green...but we pollute like it's 1939). 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Stoneyacrefarm on May 26, 2018, 06:29:28 PM
I got to see the new tiger cat 602.
What a machine. !!
It was massive. 
I asked the salesman the price and he said 225k.
Not sure how I could afford the payment but it was really nice looking. 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on May 27, 2018, 12:02:17 AM
I got to see the new tiger cat 602.
What a machine. !!
It was massive.
I asked the salesman the price and he said 225k.
Not sure how I could afford the payment but it was really nice looking.
They would sell it to you here? 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on May 27, 2018, 08:59:08 AM
This is the best global emissions chart i could find, but the picture it paints to me is that we americans are the ones really getting squeezed by regulation.  

Global Emissions Standards and the Russian Federation - Commercial Trucks of FloridaCommercial Trucks of Florida (http://commercialtrucksofflorida.com/global-emissions-standards-and-the-russian-federation/)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on May 27, 2018, 09:39:25 AM
At what point do you lose because regulations have made the engine economy so bad vs is itís euro brother. Take say an eco diesel in the liberty at the time our version got roughly 30 the euro was double the mileage.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: mike_belben on May 27, 2018, 10:05:16 AM
The point where the engine gets lowest BSFC (maximum work per unit of fuel) is in my mind where emissions should be frozen.  Reduced economy just means we run the engine for X amount more hours/gallons to complete the job,  Which isnt really in the spirit of "getting off foreign oil" or "reducing tailpipe emissions" as i interpret them.  Just my uneducated opinion
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on June 02, 2018, 12:34:39 PM
 
(http://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47446/5CF0E7E9-0161-41BA-B105-9FD9F795792A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1527957269)
 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on June 03, 2018, 06:59:57 PM
and they have a real "european style" crane on them or just some sort of swing grapple??

Interesting machine
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on June 03, 2018, 08:36:01 PM
The pictures and videos I saw were a swinging grapple like we run out here, but they donít look as heavy built. 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on June 04, 2018, 12:34:49 AM
602 Skidder versions Europe 
Charlier Swing boom with winch version
Palfinger crane with 2 cable winches, hydraulic back plate version.

http://www.lescognees.fr/actualite-exposants/1ere-mondiale-602-by-tigercat/

Plain cable 602 looks to do ok
Tigercat 602 Working in Indiana - YouTube (https://youtu.be/bMskkBHngXs) 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: teakwood on June 04, 2018, 08:04:04 AM
the palfinger crane version looks very good with double drum winch.  What size skidder is that to compare with, i didn't find a weight spec. But with 30.5/32" tires i would guess 15to? 
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Skeans1 on June 04, 2018, 08:27:01 AM
Just the single drum is 14 tons + version this little machine weighs as much as a forwarder.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: OH logger on June 26, 2018, 07:01:32 PM
that video Riwaka put up looks pretty good. powerful machine pullin big hardwood
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: nativewolf on June 26, 2018, 09:42:10 PM
Just the single drum is 14 tons + version this little machine weighs as much as a forwarder.
I'd rather have a forwarder too.  Speaking of which...no luck yet for me.
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on December 30, 2018, 10:14:59 PM
Tigercat DWC 602 - Clohse

Tigercat DWC602 impressions - YouTube (https://youtu.be/rEggRhuxiXM)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on February 29, 2020, 12:53:27 AM
Tigercat 602 grapple version  skidder

https://forestindustry.com/2020/02/20/tigercat-releases-602-grapple-skidder/?fbclid=IwAR0-iTFPPyO2nApAwUuqZA1LtWKaS6-D0NyAa7SK9uYtp2kwkbP785MBHG8 (https://forestindustry.com/2020/02/20/tigercat-releases-602-grapple-skidder/?fbclid=IwAR0-iTFPPyO2nApAwUuqZA1LtWKaS6-D0NyAa7SK9uYtp2kwkbP785MBHG8)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on March 15, 2020, 02:34:32 AM
Tigercat's 635G SB band track bogie - swing boom version like the Morgan skidder.

Tigercat Swingboom Skidder, Chile 2020 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/mL5ByI3WbJA)
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Kodiakmac on March 16, 2020, 04:15:14 PM
The only way I'll ever get one of them is with a huge government subsidy / grant.  So do you think "fighting-climate-change-by-hiring-skidder-jockeys" will help my grant application get serious consideration? :D
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: ehp on March 16, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
Buddy, if you lived in the next prov. to the east you could very well have 3 or 4 of those skidders but here in Ontario Im thinking not much of a chance :D, I live right where TC is built and there is Zero of those skidders here , just way to big for our by law
Title: Re: tigercats new skidder
Post by: Riwaka on March 31, 2020, 11:58:15 PM
Tigercat production suspended due to covid-19

https://www.tigercat.com/tigercat-and-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1JcDrYt1GfDTEvi57lPF9UKmOU6ZW26-oHOc2rtC1s9gZ36rqN60iYQ0k (https://www.tigercat.com/tigercat-and-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1JcDrYt1GfDTEvi57lPF9UKmOU6ZW26-oHOc2rtC1s9gZ36rqN60iYQ0k)