Scragg Mill

[NMFP]

Have been sawing ties and blocking on my LT40 SH for a few years now and production is slow compared to what I would like.  Have the 01 frick handset close to being operational to saw ties and blocking at a faster pace but also looking at eventually increasing speed and production as my next step.

I am a single owner and operator that works a full time job during the day, sharpens bands and saws at night and would like to look at a mill specific to ties.  Anyone have any experience with scragg mills either sharp chain or overhead dogging?  The simpler the better and being able to operate with a single or 2 operators is essential to the plan of making money with the fewest number of people possible.

I am looking at processing about 45-50 mbf per month into ties, side cut lumber, slabs and so on.I have a market for everything and connections to move everything so over production isn't a problem.  What brands and other information should I be looking at?  I know the basics of a scragg mill and how they operate but have never operated one so I need to know as much as possible before I jump.  Any suggestions?

[Ron Wenrich]

Why don't you think you can get that kind of production out of your Frick?  I think that for your production requirements, a scragg is another piece of expensive equipment that will sit idle for long periods of time.  A good scragg can do that production in a couple of days.  Equipment setting idle is often a waste of capital. 

[stumpjumper83]

Scraggs are expensive also.  I looked into a pendu 6900 to process ties and blocking, and its not just the expense of the mill which was in the high 2's, your going to need a lot of support equipment that you may not already have.  Things like morebark stack trac's, high speed debarkers, step feeders, a wheel loader, and a slab processor, be it a saw or a chipper.  All said and done I was going to have 500k tied up in a new saw, and gently used support equipment without the building & electrical, or the wheel loader.

A more economical idea is the select bandmills... bi-directional cut, high production, and portable.  Without the limitations on log diameter and length.  Most scraggs are limited to under 16" longs and under 8-12' long.

Or just use the frick that you already have, those circle mills have supplied America's lumber for many years.

[Cedarman]

We use a scragg for cedar.  At a log a minute, there are 4 slabs and one cant.  Some slabs go down belt to hog, others are fed into resaw for lumber.  Then flitch is edged.  Takes 1 to run saw, 1 to offbear slabs and cants, 1 to feed resaw, 1 to offbear resaw and feed edger, 1 to off bear edger and sort, 1 to stack lumber, 1 to feed mill and take out lumber, 1 to take care of orders and incoming logs.  8 people for our operation.  For another million we could be more automated.
The scragg could be used to get the side lumber eliminating the resaw.
We don't debark.

[NMFP]

These are all things I have thought about and I am actually considering sawing with the frick handset instead of purchasing a scragg mill.  I have been looking at number as far as profit, pay off and so on and 45-50 mbf a month isn't enough to make a high enough profit for my liking to pay off the equipment at an accelerated pace.

On another note, does anyone have ideas or suggestions on how to increase dogging capabilities with a hand set?  For example, I am looking at either adding electric or hydraulics to the carriage would like to add some way of hitting a button to move dogs in and out and up and down.  Has this ever been done with a handset conversion?  If I cant easily find a way to do it, I might just make new knees and headblocks sometime and make hydraulic dogs.

Any suggestions on upgrades?

[Ron Wenrich]

I've seen some air dogs put onto those Frick carriages and kept as a handset mill.  Its your basic 1960s technology.  You'll have to put on some sort of pantograph to deliver whatever automation you're trying to put on.  It might be easier to locate a used automatic mill. 

[NMFP]

Ron:

I am thinking about using the carriage this way for a little while and then just buying new knees and headblocks that are already fitted with dogs.  Probably need to change the set shaft as well but the steel carriage i welded for the head blocks I have now will more than hold up t new equipment in the future.  Any good sources for air dogs that arent shot?

[Ron Wenrich]

If you want to set up with new, they still make the parts out at Albright Saw in Ohio.  They have all the Frick patents, I think.  Their price list has new air dogs at $3500.  The air taper is $1600.  It wouldn't take much to get a good used automatic at those prices. 

You might have to do some nosing around, but there used to be a guy down around Chambersburg that had a ton of Frick parts.  I don't know if he's still in business.  The boys down at Stahl's might know who that is.  They might also be a good contact for you.  If you need the number, give me a PM.

[NMFP]

Yes, Stahls isnt too far from me and have purchased parts from them in the past.

As far as in Chambersburg, are you refering to D&D?  I actually would like to see what they have because I was told about a year ago that they had many many many parts for frick mills.  I have never run air dogs and I dont have a real good picture of them to see how I could make them without purchasing.  Have any pictures?  I have only ever run hydraulic or manual.

Thanks!

[Ron Wenrich]

I believe D&D is the place.  I also think that he worked for Frick when they were in Waynesboro. 

I have only run air dogs a few times.  I prefer hydraulic over air.  There is better control with hydraulics.  The best hydraulic dogs I've operated were on Jackson mills.  Taper and dog are all together.  You also had the downturn in dogs.  I used it on a Jackson portable mill.  If you can find a used one, all you need is a good power unit to run the whole thing.  You're up and running in a couple of hours, and you can do 6-7 Mbf with another couple of workers.  Cheaper than a scragg, faster than your band. 

[NMFP]

Thanks Ron.....  I am determining how I can actuate the dogs. I have up and down which I can do with small hydraulic cylinders but the in and out I am a little puzzled with right now because i want them to all come out equally but would like to keep it as clean as possible but not sure on adding the virticle cylinders and horizontal cylinders at the same time.  I believe on every mill I have sawn on, the dogs only come out about 4" at maximum.  Any thoughts?  I already have the 3 frick handset headblocks which i would like to use but do not want to abuse them severely either. 

Has anyone added air dogs or hydraulic dogs to their handset mills using off the shelf components?  If so, do you have any pictures?

Thanks everyone.

[Ron Wenrich]

If you can adjust your in and out, they don't have to be equal.  That's how you put in taper from your dogs.  You clamp it down, then adjust taper.  On a flat side, you pull your dogs all the way back.  They have to come together at the back side.  The problem that I had with air tapers is that they were either in or out, no in between. 

[NMFP]

Yup, much different than with hydraulic or electric dogs.  I havent found too many that have converted to automatic from manual but will keep looking.  Looking for a used set of air dogs is proving to be more difficult than I originally thought.  As many air dogs that used to be out there, there should be a good pile of them somewhere I am sure but just havent found them yet.  Ill keep searching.