Establishing black locust.

[Dave Shepard]

Not sure if this belongs here or just in the forestry board.

I'd like to establish black locust along the small brook on our farm. It's mostly poplar (cottonwood), and dead or dying elm. The poplar is useless for anything other than erosion control, as far as I can tell. What would you have to do to get locust growing? I think once it got started it would spread nicely, and I could probably start thinning out the poplar. Someday down the road, it would be nice to be able to harvest fence posts right off the farm. It's gravelly ground, with several feet of good topsoil on top.

[Magicman]

Most folks, including me, want just the opposite......get rid of it.  Seriously, bottom land does not do well here.  It needs to be well drained.  Want some seed?

[John Mc]

If you do get it started, be sure to keep an eye on it. In the right conditions, it will spread like a weed.

[Dave Shepard]

It can only spread to the corn field, then it'll get plowed under. Spreading like a weed is what I want. Where I used to work the fields were surrounded by black locust. Fields were mowed every year, and that kept it in check. There was a good crop of logs and posts to be had on a regular basis, too.

[thechknhwk]

I know what you mean Dave.  I'd like to get something else established to root out these cottonwoods.  Since the ash die off it seems they lack competition in the lowlands or just plain out grow everything else.

[John Mc]

If you are interested in stream bank stabilization, there may be better plants to put there. It might be worth checking around your state fish & wildlife dept or other state organization may have some recommendations - there may even be some financial assistance available for stream bank stabilization/buffering and wildlife habitat improvement.

I do hear you about having a source of black locust for fence posts. In the old days, a lot of farms would manage a stand of black locust for just that purpose.  In fact, I'm betting that the Black locust on my property descended from plantings on a farmstead back in the early 1800's. The only real concentration of it on my property is not too far from an old cellar hole.

[Dave Shepard]

I without a doubt want to grow black locust. I do not want to establish anything else. In the process, I'd like to either force out or physically remove the cottonweeds.

[WV Sawmiller]

Dave,

    Good luck on growing your locust. They grow on the hillsides mostly here and not as close to the watercourses as other types of trees. I see them growing in cracks on sheer cliffs and cuts. They are shallow rooted and the first trees we lose after a soaking rain followed by an ice storm. Often one up high will fall and take down 2 below which take down 4 in a domino effect. I've seen whole hillsides come down under the right (wrong?) conditions. They are real handy for fence posts, make good honey and I got 8 in the ground for the lumber storage shed I'm building. They are not getting as big as they used to before becoming diseased and woodpeckered. to pieces The overaged ones do make nice dens for the flying squirrels and such. Many people here prefer them for firewood because they produce very little ash. They burn real hot like heart pine or such.

    Magic and others talk about them being a problem for him so I assume they grow well in Mississippi but I never saw one in north Florida or Southern Alabama (LA) where I grew up. First I saw was when I moved here to WV 25 years ago.

[brianJ]

Sounds like a wonderful tree.  In all truthfulness you will only love OR hate this tree.   If you have circumstances where you can control its rhizome spread and uses for the wood what could be better?     In places where you cannot control its spread I suppose it is as bad as kudzu or multiflora rose, honeysuckle or sumac.

[mesquite buckeye]

My black locusts in Missouri are limited by locust borers and competition with bigger hardwoods like oaks, etc.

[Farmer Jim]

I tried planting some for posts.  I put in 100 and wanted to add 100 every year.  They were alive the first year, but after winter were not.  They were planted in an area cleared of ironwood surrounded by large hard maple, so the soil was quite good.  Not sure if there was not enough light, or if the winters here are too hard on them.  I still would like to get some established so I can stop buying posts.  The only other wood I have that might make a decent post is white oak and there are not enough to cut any.

[InterMechanico]

Would Western Redcedar grow down there? They like wet conditions and make excellent rot resistant lumber. The split cedar fence posts around our cabin typically last 25 years before needing replacement.

[Dave Shepard]

Not much for cedar or cedar like trees around here other than ornamental arborvitea. I have sawn exactly one cedar log. It came out of someone's yard, and when the customer went back for the second log it had been stolen.

[mesquite buckeye]

Black locust won't tolerate much shade. Could be your opening is too small. They go absolutely nuts running across an abandoned field. We had lots of them in NW Ohio so I doubt that cold is the issue. ;D 8) 8) 8)

[sandhills]

I sent a few up to member goose63, haven't heard how they wintered in ND but this winter should have been a good test for them, and yes, they spread like weeds.

[kwendt]

Black locust won't tolerate much shade. Could be your opening is too small. They go absolutely nuts running across an abandoned field. We had lots of them in NW Ohio so I doubt that cold is the issue. ;D 8) 8) 8)

Come to northern Maine, zone 4a on the ridge shoulder... I likely have quite a few, that and gray birch and dogwood. Anything you want out of the overgrown 8 acre field... you dig. I supply the beer. Deal. SwampDonkey will likely join us for the fun...

[sandhills]

I'll just join for the free beer, I got enough locust trees  :D :D :D

[kwendt]

I'll just join for the free beer, I got enough locust trees  :D :D :D

Sandhills, sweet! The more the merrier! Well, if ya don't need trees... Do you know how to convert an old fridge into a smoker? Lol Answer: .... with beer, of course!

[sandhills]

 ;D

[Phorester]

Black locust is used as a reclamation tree on old strip mine and highly eroded sites in the South because it grows on virtually any soil and site no matter how poor.  So I expect it will do well on your gravely site.

I'd suggest planting seedlings and giving the locusts plenty of sunlight.

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks for the advice.

I've got my eye on a little grove of the stuff. It's ripe for a thinning, just have to see if the guy still owns it, or if it's been sold to the state. I'd also like to get some small transplants from him as well.

[thechknhwk]

How long before its suitable size for fence posts?

[Dave Shepard]

Where I used to work there was a small stone yard behind the shop where we would stock pile marble and other stone for different projects. It would get trimmed with a brushcutter almost every year. One year we skipped it, and there were two year old locust 2" in diameter 15' tall. I would think you would have a nice post in 8-10 years, maybe less.

[Black_Bear]

Not sure if this belongs here or just in the forestry board.

I'd like to establish black locust along the small brook on our farm. It's mostly poplar (cottonwood), and dead or dying elm. The poplar is useless for anything other than erosion control, as far as I can tell. What would you have to do to get locust growing? I think once it got started it would spread nicely, and I could probably start thinning out the poplar. Someday down the road, it would be nice to be able to harvest fence posts right off the farm. It's gravelly ground, with several feet of good topsoil on top.

Here is a fact sheet on black locust:

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/robinia/pseudoacacia.htm

[Farmer Jim]

I was gifted 175 Black Locust seedlings last week.  My 2 older boys planted them in a sunny spot this time.  Posts in a decade we hope. If these make it til next year we'll put in some more.