maple log

xlogger · August 07, 2015, 08:04:15 PM

Pickup this maple log today, is this ambrosia or spalted maple with the spots on the end? It pretty fresh cut so if I let it sit more shouldn't turn more figures in the wood? If so how long do would you let it sit? I did seal the ends when I took it off the trailer. I plan on cutting it into 2" live edge. It's 23" on small end.

Tree Dan · August 07, 2015, 08:32:32 PM

Are you thinking Spalted Maple?
Looks like Ambrosia to me...Its not Spalted.

WDH · August 07, 2015, 08:38:25 PM

Ambrosia for sure. Don't let it sit. Maple develops an ugly splotchy gray stain that will ruin the appearance of the lumber. It is an enzymatic oxidation reaction that develops in the wood when the temp is up and there is high humidity.

Important to saw it as soon as possible, and with this heat, you need lots of air flow to prevent gray stain and sticker stain. I run a big barrel fan on my maple for at least the first 3 - 4 weeks. You want it nice and white to contrast the ambrosia.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · August 07, 2015, 09:33:22 PM

I suggest that it is the Columbian Timber beetle.

Glenn1 · August 07, 2015, 10:44:51 PM

That log looks like it is going to yield some pretty ambrosia maple.

xlogger · August 08, 2015, 05:44:07 AM

OK first I corrected my spelling on "salted" thanks for that :laugh:. Probably for sure not the last time I do that. I took out some slabs in my solar kiln last week so I have room to put this in. Not a high volume fans like you are talking about but a fair amount. Do you think that a good idea?
I was reading in the past about someone letting maple lay around for pretty good time and it gets more character. What does this apply to?
Learning here, so Gene what does the CT beetle do?

WDH · August 08, 2015, 07:22:46 AM

It is my understanding that the Columbian Timber Beetle is a species of ambrosia beetle.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · August 08, 2015, 06:46:23 PM

The Columbian Timber Beetle is indeed one of the ambrosia beetles.

For more info, see http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev2_043570.pdf
Note especially the picture Figure 1 D; it shows a log quite similar to the picture posted here (a bit worse).

Regarding ambrosia beetles, as a group, here is a paragraph from Clemson Univ.
Ambrosia beetles are a specialized group belonging to the family Scolytidae. They differ from the bark beetles in this family in several ways. While bark beetles burrow in the phloem layer or at the juncture of the bark and sapwood, ambrosia beetles bore through the bark and into the sapwood. The ambrosia beetles are highly specialized and feed on fungi that they cultivate on the walls of the tunnels. Both the adults and larvae feed on the fungus. In many cases, the fungi are specific to a given beetle and the spores are carried from site to site in specialized pouches (mycetangia) in the body of the female. As the female excavates a new tunnel, the spores are deposited on the walls.

Note that the maple (and others) tree reacts to this infestation by forming heartwood where there should normally be sapwood. The early heartwood is called pathological heartwood, compared to normal aging heartwood (that forms with age). This heartwood is somewhat isolated from the rest of the sapwood, and that is the way the tree tries to limit the spread of whatever infection is occurring. When a maple is tapped, in a few years the heartwood is formed around the tap and that stops flow, so new taps in a slightly different location are needed.

xlogger · August 08, 2015, 08:52:59 PM

ok thanks Gene. Today I cut the log into 2 eight ft sections to saw Monday. Would I be better putting slabs under a high volume fan for a week before putting in solar kiln or just putting in kiln? I don't have a big fan so I would have to get one.

WDH · August 08, 2015, 09:00:02 PM

Hopefully, I am farming some ambrosia beetles in that planer-shaving-covered pile of pecan logs that I have. The logs laid out a couple of months this spring uncovered, so hopefully the ambrosia beetles found them. I love the result of ambrosia beetles and their black lined holes with a little fungal spalt and color in pecan. I have done it before, but completely by accident.

Xlogger, looking forward to seeing that ambrosia maple sawn. I really like that stuff.

As to the fan. @YellowHammer did some experimenting with stickering and using a fan on the stack for a couple of weeks before kiln drying. If I recall, he got excellent results with the pre-drying with the fans. Last time that I went straight to the kiln straight off the saw, I got some sticker stain, but I believe that is because I put in a bit too many BF for the capacity of my dehumidification unit. My last load of maple was pre-dried (air dried) with the big fan for about 3 - 4 weeks, and the results were very good.

Tree Dan · August 08, 2015, 09:32:39 PM

Quote from: xlogger on August 08, 2015, 05:44:07 AM
OK first I corrected my spelling on "salted" thanks for that :laugh:. Probably for sure not the last time I do that. I took out some slabs in my solar kiln last week so I have room to put this in. Not a high volume fans like you are talking about but a fair amount. Do you think that a good idea?
I was reading in the past about someone letting maple lay around for pretty good time and it gets more character. What does this apply to?
Learning here, so Gene what does the CT beetle do?

Leaving the Maple sitting around for a pretty good time...This is when you will get your Spalting...and it can make reg. Sugar maple become Spalted Maple.
There are ways to speed this spalting process up...adding beer to the log for example.
Spalting is a stage the wood goes through before it is rotted and good for nothing, and then turns to compost.
2 " slabs sound good for that Maple.

YellowHammer · August 08, 2015, 10:22:46 PM

I really like to use fans to pre dry red maple before it goes into the kiln. I have had quite a bit of difficulty in the past with getting sticker stain, especially in the summer, but since ambrosia maple is one of my best sellers, I have to crank it out no matter how hot and humid it is. So I will generally stack up to four packs of stickered maple in front and behind two big fans, turn them on high, and feel the air behind them as it evaporates the water.
The drying rate is highly proportional to air velocity when wood is relatively wet, less so as the wood dries out. So blasting lots of air through the stacks straight off the saw will dry out the wood extremely fast, and quickly get it beyond much of the danger of sticker stain. I like at least a week in front of the fans, but two is better. At that point, put the wood in the solar kiln but remember that generally, the solar kiln dries slow, so it is a ripe environment for white wood sticker stain.
Here a picture of me with two packs in front of a couple fans, and I would finish it up by putting two more packs on the other side, with the fans in the middle. It may seem like overkill, but it works. Of course if I did this for oak, it would destroy it.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · August 09, 2015, 05:37:45 AM

Fast drying gets the best color in most cases. A solar kiln can be used on freshly sawn maple, but it is best if you run the vents wide open and maximum air flow. Some kilns will keep the doors cracked open to increase the venting for the first week. Obviously, no need to run the fans when the humidity is over 90% RH.

xlogger · August 09, 2015, 06:43:47 AM

Off to Lowes today to get a couple fans, they have a 24" that blows around 7000cfms for about $130. I have a chance of getting more of these maples later so I'll be needing them more later. Also only getting to high of 85 this week, might help a little. Now I'm only thinking about sawing one tomorrow and saving the other so maybe it will spalt more. I'll look at the slab after I saw it and decide. Also got 2 walnuts and 2 ash logs to saw maybe this week also, both are bigger than the maple. Two of the logs will have to be trimmed too big for the saw. Got a helper so I hope we can handle the weight ok.

YellowHammer · August 09, 2015, 08:57:55 AM

Here's a couple other tips that will help. First, if at all possible, use an increased airflow sticker, like these H ones I made myself. They decrease the sticker contact surface on the wood, and will allow airflow under the sticker. Decreased sticker contact will decrease sticker stain, as long as there's enough sticker to support the wood in the stacks and keep from indenting the boards. Here's some home made ones I made on a table saw.

It's also a good idea to monitor the wood as its drying, especially in the beginning. Every day or so I like to go out and bang a few stickers sideways with a hammer and see if any stain is forming under them. If not, it only takes a few seconds, and I can sleep peaceful that night, if I start to see it, then I will hammer or knock as many stickers as possible sidewise to get the to a new spot on the wood. They only have to be moved an inch or so, just off their old spots.

I also like to space my maple boards about an inch apart when layering, I noticed that if I developed stain, it was generally in a wide board, or a tightly packed solid row of boards, where there was no way to let the moisture move through the stacks vertically. When I had gaps between the edges I had a much better result.

The good news is you will know that the fans are working because when you stand on the back side of the stacks you will feel a noticeably cool breeze coming out the downwind side, due to the evaporative effect of the fans in the wet wood. That's also a good way to know when it's OK to pull the fans, if the air coming out is just warm dry air, they are done, if the air coming out is wet and cool, keep them blowing because they are still doing their job.

xlogger · August 10, 2015, 02:26:00 PM

When to Lowes yesterday and got 3 - 20" fans. They didn't have the 24". Cut the maples up this morning into 6-5/4 , 2-4/4 , 13-8/4 , 1-6/4 and 1- 7/4 . 23 eight foot live edge total. The fans got a good flow blowing threw the boards.

xlogger · August 10, 2015, 03:37:04 PM

I lost my other picture so I'll put it here.
YH, if I hit my stickers over they would probably break, I use brittle cedar stickers.

beenthere · August 10, 2015, 06:15:40 PM

xlogger
Need some help with pics? I see several duplicates in your gallery (5 of the stack above) and thought maybe something wasn't going just the way you want it ... give a shout if needed.

If you click your user name, then you can go to your gallery.

xlogger · August 10, 2015, 07:31:30 PM

I went to my galley and try to delete some with no luck. Computers and me should not be in the same sentence.
But I do like my slabs. One you see is the worst one.

WDH · August 10, 2015, 09:03:10 PM

Xlogger, WOW!

Those are fantastic.

4x4American · August 10, 2015, 09:28:36 PM

oooo ahhhhh 8)

YellowHammer · August 10, 2015, 11:04:36 PM

Those are really nice, they are definitely "wow" wood.

Quote from: xlogger on August 10, 2015, 02:26:00 PM
When to Lowes yesterday and got 3 - 20" fans. They didn't have the 24". Cut the maples up this morning into 6-5/4 , 2-4/4 , 13-8/4 , 1-6/4 and 1-1 7/4 . 23 eight foot live edge total. The fans got a good flow blowing threw the boards.

A 17/4 board? Dang, that's a thick one! Watch it like a hawk, if you start seeing any surface cracking, pull it off. I bet you are feeling some cool air and the smelling maple on the back side of the stack? I did a pallet of 9/4 last year with fans and had no problem. Yours will also turn out great. But still....watch them....at least for the first couple weeks...

I've broken more than one sticker trying to look under it. ;D buts it's worth it to confirm no stain.

I notice the slab one on the left in your picture has signs of pith cracking, not much you can do about that. It'll do what it will do.

Here's a few pallets of ambrosia (red maple) we milled up this Sunday afternoon, I figured I'd post the picture so you know I practice what I preach. ;D. I've got the fans tilted so they suck air through the bottom stack and blow on the other two. These are 42" fans, set on high, and I wouldn't dry this kind of wood without them in the summer. It's all 4/4.

xlogger · August 11, 2015, 06:14:33 AM

I need to proof read more before I post. It should of been 7/4. I corrected it and after I did I lost the pictures. I'll try to go back and get them back on. Like I said I'm not the one to call for a computer problem. Maybe I will just try to get them on this post. I'll also show the "little" fans I got but they put a nice flow of air threw the stack. thanks for the advice, going to cut another maple today but smaller and some red oaks all in slabs.

xlogger · August 11, 2015, 06:36:17 AM

YH your boards look really good. I might look around for bigger fans and try to put this in my kiln if they will fit in the box area I have to put them in, They do a pretty good job, Another question. I'm trying to catch up on my slab cutting in the next couple of weeks before my helper goes back to school. Like I said earlier I have red oak, big ash, and some big walnut to cut. For sure not enough room in kiln for all. I'm thinking you all said that the ash and maple should go in first but with the lengths that will not work. After I leave the maple on fans for a couple of weeks which one would you put in first? One of walnuts is 12 ft long and really bigger than my mill will cut. I hate to trim it down will have to.
Gene, I remember what you said awhile back that after you built your first one plan for room for the second one.

YellowHammer · August 11, 2015, 10:26:12 PM

As long as the maple, or any white wood is on fans and drying correctly it is safe, and there is no rush to put it in a solar kiln, which dries slow and is a hot, humid environment ripe for stain. The fans are really there for the purposes of accelerated drying, as well as keeping the temperatures of the wood cool. Both of these good conditions will help prevent sticker stain. While the wood is wet, the fans are actually drying the wood faster than the solar kiln will, and certainly keeping it cooler. This is why fan drying can't be used on some species, such as red oak, it will dry them too fast.
A solar kiln, by its nature, dries wood relataivly slowly. So it's best not to put the wood into the solar kiln until it has reached a low moisture content when the fan effect drops off, and the kiln is more advantageous.
I have had my solar kiln zebra strip white wood such as poplar, because I put it in too early and it was still wet. So I would keep the fans on the maple as long as they are having an effect. This is easily determined by a moisture meter, or even standing behind the fan stack. If the air is cool and moist, the fans are still doing their job and moisture is being evaporated.

As was suggested, if you put the wood in the solar kiln, it must have plenty of airflow.