What do you pay your help?

[John Mc]

In most states, even if you hire him as a contractor, if he has no workers comp insurance on his own, you are liable.  You might be able to dodge some of this if he's working on his own land, with his own equipment and he just sells you split wood, but even then it may be doubtful that you could avoid all liability.

If you want to go ahead with this, have you thought about splitting up the work differently? What about you do the chainsawing, and he uses the splitter? Getting injured by a chainsaw is seldom a minor deal, and a 16 year old working for you getting hurt by a chainsaw is certainly something that will look bad to a judge or jury if it comes to that. Getting hurt by a splitter can be bad, but a crushed finger is certainly less of an issue than losing a foot or getting reconstructive surgery if a kickback knocks him in the face.

One possibility: what about you sell logs to him, and he cuts and splits on his own property and sells it himself? Customer pickup would be easy, and he could always hire you to make a delivery if needed. He gets a real taste of running a business that way.  The downside is that you may be putting someone into competition with you - though maybe you could hire him on when he turns 18?

[justallan1]

My initial plan was to do most of the chainsaw work myself and let him do the splitting and loading.
It's starting to look like a bad idea though. A lot of times I just take my splitter to the logs and either pile split wood or load it and go right to the buyer. That way I'm only loading wood one time. ARGH!
I may just skip the whole idea altogether. I know for sure that I can split it faster myself than loading logs or rounds, hauling it somewhere and then unloading them. I just feel more work, more time and more fuel for the same money just isn't good math. :-\
Thank you all for the input.

[beenthere]

Will (or would) the ranch hire him on? Sounds like you know him and could voutch for him, and maybe give him some training. Likely he is in school so summer vacation is about over.  just wonderin....

[justallan1]

If we had any hay to cut this year it would have been possible to get him hired, but with summer break about over it's to late to even discuss it.
My job description right now is to take care of my cows, turn wrenches when needed, rest up and look for fires.
I think it was about 9 pm when I got home from one last night. I'm here tell you, those fires will just flat take it out of you. Near as I can tell, I'm not 20 years old no more.

[BradMarks]

Labor laws and liability issues really mess with trying to help someone out. We can basically look at all the litigation, the sue happy public getting "their fair share", that lands us where we are.  Probably everyone on this Forum did work as a youngster that would not be allowed today, legally. Painting houses at 14 yrs was mine. Sure wish you could help this 16 yr old, a kid willing to work is a good kid.

[John Mc]

It could still be done with the cooperation of the young fellows father. Sell the logs or blocks, buy back the firewood, lease, loan or rent the equipment by the day. With the involvement and cooperation of the father I expect your potential legal liabilities would disappear.

That would only work if his work was not done on your property. Even then, if you leased them the equipment, you may be held accountable for an injury while they were using it, unless you had a very carefully written lease.

Even if the boy and his parents sign an agreement not to sue, you still may get sued. Their insurance company has what is known as a right of subrogation, which basically means they can sue you to recover their losses, regardless of whether the boy or his family want to or not.

[NWP]

If he has a good head on his shoulders and his parents are decent people, I'd say go for it. As a society there's way to much hand wringing over "what ifs". I've had several kids like that work for me over the years. I saw one boy's dad the other day and he told me he thinks that his son working for me in high school was the best thing he's ever done. He learned how to run equipment and deal with people. Skills they can use their whole life.

[Thewoodman]

I used to pay my kids 9/hr to do whatever work I had, mostly splitting and stacking. sometimes scrap metal work too. I always told them that if I started seeing 8 dollars an hour work out there I would fire fire them. now I have one boy who works at the chevy house, another who just started a bank job(not robbing) thankfully. and finally a 14 year old that is slipping fast to the I want to lay around and watch tv crowd... he used to be my best employee. :-\

Turn it off. Tell him that girls love motor bikes and he needs to save up and buy one.

[jcl]

I also pay $9.00 plus I buy lunch and give them a pair of my old gloves.  they don't run chainsaw's. I don't need that problem they just split the wood and throw it in a pile

[nas]

There is also the option of raising your prices when you get too busy.  You might get rid of a few of the customers that always complain about price.  And at $140 a cord you could use a raise

[petefrom bearswamp]

I realize that hope is not a strategy but I pay my tail man $10 UTT and hope nothing bad happens.
He does however work safely.

[GRANITEstateMP]

I'm in a little different situation than you but I figured I'd chime in.  We do about 100ish cord a year and one of my guys I pay with wood.  He does some (not too much) bucking of big stuff that won't fit in the processor.  Helps with the wood splitter on the big / ugly stuff, and helps keep logs rolling into the process or the deck.  It's def. a little scary when I think of the liability, but then we try and work safe, and hope for the best.  It works well for both of us, I have some much needed help and he gets free / discounted wood.  One other helper that gets his wood at cost for doing other labor chores.  Both guys are pretty happy and pretty good workers.  This method helped boost production from 35ish cord to 100ish (that and the little processor!).

[lynde37avery]

When I work on my own time I get $50 for cutting and $50 for splitting a 128 cubic ft cord. With all my own equipment. If I work for my uncle it's $12 an hr cut/split. And if I'm working in the woods with his machines I get 25 a hitch and 15 for cut load. If I use my skidder and truck on his jobs it's 35 a hitch "cord" and 25 cut/load/haul home. Not much but it's his job and fuel and I get fed and I get my own firewood no charge on his job.