Thoughts on a decent firewood saw please.

[Ada Shaker]

Hi everyone.
New to the forum and was hoping for some thoughts or opinions for a decent firewood saw.
A little about requirements.
Types of woods: Prodominantly hardwoods. Australian hardwords, mountain ash, gums, etc...
Age of user: hitting 50 with back issues and arthritis setting in well.
Have numerous olders saws floating about but are getting to heavy to handle now.
Have been using a stihl 010 until recently for firewood and has served me well until recently.
Have a couple of stihl 009 floating about that I've been using as spare parts for the 010 as needed, one I think is near complete but unknown working order. Bed ridden at the moment so can't check @ the moment. Anyway the 009's and 010 are diffent issues to the question at hand.
I was thinking of a new firewood saw that would hopefully see me through at least 10 to 20 years of wood cutting, god willing and if my back holds up that long. Sorry I don't posses a crystal ball.
I was talking to a neighbour whom does a considerable amount of wood chop, and has highly recommended the stihl ms260c. Now I've checked the website and the latest model for this series is the ms261c-somethingorather which is fine, but in your honest opinion, whats it like for weight etc.... is it a screamer or steady as she goes. Considering I'm hitting half a century I don't really want a saw I probably wont be able to handle in 10 years time. I'm a pretty burly type of bloke and can stihl bog down a 090, but gees,  shes starting to get heavy. I find the stihl 010av fairly light and ok. Just wondering what the more mature generation are using for lopping firewood, that ms261somethingorather looks like a mighty fine firewood saw, or will it become a grand and a half white elephant sitting in a corner to heavy to move about in 10 years time???.
Or is there a better lighter saw?. Please no Aldi specials, I bought one for camping a few years ago and she did well, no one was interested in walking off with her, just through her undrr the van, but when I moved up here and had to put her through the paces, she had a coronary,  horses for causes I suppose.

[sawguy21]

Welcome to the FF, this is a great place to hang out. Scroll down the chainsaw forum, there have been numerous discussions that might answer most of your questions.

[Magicman]

hitting 50 with back issues and arthritis setting in well.

I always wear a weightlifter's style belt when sawing.

[sablatnic]

Back problems and beginning arthritis - I'd say you should seriously consider a Stihl with their Easy2Start system. (Grampa starter)

[WV Mountaineer]

The 261 will suit you as it sounds.  Not heavy, good runner.  It will pull a 18 bar good.  Which, is the shortest I'd go.  Gotta remember, a short bar means you got to bend over farther and more often.  Good luck with your health and God Bless

[Pine Ridge]

If stihl is the only brand your looking at , a 261 is a good choice for a firewood saw. Holmentree spoke highly of the 241 stihl on a different thread here, it may be a better choice if your wanting a lighter saw, and it is also a pro grade saw.

[Ada Shaker]

Welcome to the FF, this is a great place to hang out. Scroll down the chainsaw forum, there have been numerous discussions that might answer most of your questions.

Thanx sawguy
Yep, spent much the whole day yesterday scrolling through, very informative and had some gr8 laughs on the way through. Sometimes I cant see the forrest for the trees, and the internet can be a little overwhelming at times, I think it should come with a good brush cutter at times so the thicket can be cleared. smiley_old_guy

[Ada Shaker]

hitting 50 with back issues and arthritis setting in well.

I always wear a weightlifter's style belt when sawing.

Thats a gr8 idea magicman.
Now I did have one of those back braces given to me by the physio, just need to remember where I put it. 

[Ada Shaker]

Back problems and beginning arthritis - I'd say you should seriously consider a Stihl with their Easy2Start system. (Grampa starter)

Yeh, just had a quick look at that system, not a bad system for the old timers, might even get 20 to 30 years use out of one if they worked well enough. Not to certain about the thin pull rope people are complaining about though. I know the general consensus in industry is to save a dollar on every product you make  because at the end of the line a millon products equates to a million dollars and that makes the shareholder happy, but its generally at a cost to brand confidence when cutbacks like these are made to reputable branded products. The mind only boggles at where else they've cut back, one reason im a little scepticle with these modern items. Whats the go with using dental floss as a pull rope stihl?. Another issue I can envisage with this system, and it might just be an understanding of how the system operates, is that the system uses a certain amount of engine compression in order for it to be able to hold back a tension spring, and then turn over the motor once compression is overcome. That may be ok for a new motor whilst it holds good compression, but what happens to the system as the motor ages/wears and starts to loose compression. Me thinks one will probably find the motor will probably start to turn sooner up the cord, making the system less effective. Dunno, maybe a crank handle to wind up the spring and a PHD button to release the tension back into the crank may have been a better option. say_what. Wake up stihl. I do like the idea, just not totally convinced. Put a thicker pull rope or dispense of it completely, not required for clockwork springs. Just a means of winding it up, and another of releasing it when the timing is right. A battery drill might serve the same purpose.

[Ada Shaker]

The 261 will suit you as it sounds.  Not heavy, good runner.  It will pull a 18 bar good.  Which, is the shortest I'd go.  Gotta remember, a short bar means you got to bend over farther and more often.  Good luck with your health and God Bless

Thanx mountaineer.
Yes 18 inch is the shortest id like to go, and I wouldn't want to go much bigger anyway, for that id use a bigger saw whilst I can stihl weild it, but it wouldn't to often hopefully. The only concerns I have about these new saws is
1. The metallurgical materials used in their construction, (r they made in china)
2. These modern screwless fangled carburetors.
3. The amount of solid state electronics that may be used, in particular semi-conductors.
4. These modern 4 mix stroked engines, a level of uncertainty. Do I need another fuel mix ratio can spanner thrown in the workx for good measure.

Not to certain if this is true or not (just hear say from word of mouth), but someone in the game mentioned to me that odd model numb3rd stihls were made in china and even numbered stihls were made in germany and the like. Hopefully someone out there with a little mouse can shed some light on the matter, thanx in advance. teeter_totter
Any thoughts on these new fangled chainies appreciated.

[Ada Shaker]

If stihl is the only brand your looking at , a 261 is a good choice for a firewood saw. Holmentree spoke highly of the 241 stihl on a different thread here, it may be a better choice if your wanting a lighter saw, and it is also a pro grade saw.

Thanx pine ridge.
No I'm not really brand bias, chainsaws are a bit like cars, most are pretty good, it just comes down more to reliability coupled with spare parts and service. Like they say, when in rome do as the romans do, otherwise it can get pretty uncomfortable walking with one foot on either side of a barbed wire fence. But I'll definitely have a look at the 241 as well, thanx.

[Texas-Jim]

Stihls easy start saws have proven them selves to me. I have as much problems from the old style as I do from the easy start. I'm not as much of a fan on the 251c version as on smaller ones. But iv found way to make it lot easier, i call it short stroking. Just pull rope about a foot and release it, when you pull it second time it snaps over very easy and you don't have pull rope out very far.

[sawguy21]

Your first three concerns are valid but that is the current reality. The solid state ignitions while not serviceable are head and shoulders ahead of the old points and condenser technology. The newer carburetors are another story. They are a pita but some scofflaws (no names mentioned) have worked around them with pleasing results. ;D There are no four mix chainsaws on the market at this time so that is not an issue.

[Ada Shaker]

Stihls easy start saws have proven them selves to me. I have as much problems from the old style as I do from the easy start. I'm not as much of a fan on the 251c version as on smaller ones. But iv found way to make it lot easier, i call it short stroking. Just pull rope about a foot and release it, when you pull it second time it snaps over very easy and you don't have pull rope out very far.

Thanx Texas Jim
You've shed some interesting light on the short stroking scenario. It's interesting to see that these easy starts can be wound part way a number of times, (or at least twice). Just a short question if you don't mind, do you know if the motor compression is what holds back the easy start spring mechanism, or is it some internal device that triggers when the spring is fully wound?. Thanx in advance.

[sablatnic]

They are held back only by the compression.
I've seen one partly wound, and then suddenly turning over after several minutes. It didn't start - wasn't wound enough for that.

[Ada Shaker]

Your first three concerns are valid but that is the current reality. The solid state ignitions while not serviceable are head and shoulders ahead of the old points and condenser technology. The newer carburetors are another story. They are a pita but some scofflaws (no names mentioned) have worked around them with pleasing results. ;D There are no four mix chainsaws on the market at this time so that is not an issue.

Hi sawguy
The saw point i'm envisaging with these saws is the amount of electronics embedded within, not just the electronic modules. Back in the old days (not that long ago buy the way, i'm not that old yet), an electronic module consisted basically of a coil and a basic dc biased power transistor with something to trigger it at the correct moment (spark the plug basically).

What i couldn't find on the net was how much it could cost to replace the m-tronic module, carburettor , sensors, q-tronics and the like, for one of these fangled new saws. Not to sure if i have to sell one of my kidneys to get one repaired or just go without firewood if something went bung outside the warranty period?. These days with intellectual property rights, electronic modules are almost impossible to repair which is compounded by manufacturers filling up the module boards/boxes with resin. good luck trying to find out what's in them most of the time. I did find some interesting read today, sort of indirectly related to these electronic carbies/ECU's for the stihl's and probably others, these guys like to play with model aircraft, have some knowledge in electronics but like to use some big   words from time to time. If your somewhat electronically minded makes a good 5 - 10 min read. Even if your not, might be a bit of an eye opener for someone thinking of purchasing a new saw. Stihl tech repairers may also find the read somewhat interesting, Dunno, maybe. It would be interesting to find out if the repairers use static wrist straps to replace boards modules (CMOS).

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2261048

Don't get me wrong, i've searched the web and they sound like gr8 saws, but there like computers, fantastic when there running well, nightmarish when they play merry hell. Compounded by the fact that electronic components don't fair too well around excessive heat and vibrations??????????? Dunno what the engineers were thinking, be a lot better if they used military grade electronic components that could handle greater variations in temperatures, but doubt it??????. Think I might wind back the search a little and look for something with a little less electronically gizmoeee, Perhaps a slightly earlier model perhaps. (Do they really have crank case sensors?)

I would dearly love some feedback from chainsaw repairers on this one. I know the chainsaws are cheaper in the US than Aust. by quite a bit but could someone please summarise what the expected repair cost for the modules/carbies/and things that go bang on these saws would be, If I were using them in business they'd just be a tax deductible expense, but no such luck for home use. I've done some searching on the net but couldn't find anything. If in $US i'll just double it cause id know id be paying double for parts, like the chainsaws.....here in Oz. :. Your thoughts once again gr8ly appreciated.

Oh, it wasn't a four mix thingamagigie. I misread the ad and thought they used both two-stroke oil and engine oil at the same time. These new engines can be a little confusing at times or maybe its just the way there advertising them or maybe im just getting to old in my latter years.........
Thanx again for your thoughts.

[sablatnic]

I have replaced two carburettors, both of them with defective needle valves, something that can happen to any saw. Don't remember the price, so it must have been a sensible price. Haven't had any problems with the electronic / computer department of any, and don't know what it would cost.

[weimedog]

My humble opinion is the best firewood saw for the plus 50 crowd (of which I am one) cutting wood under 20inch is a Husqvarna 555 / Jonsered 2258. Period. Set up with an 18inch bar. Strong enough to cut a larger log from time to time. Fuel efficient. Very smooth with excellent anti-vibe. Not "pro level" expensive (here in the states). Best air induction/filtration out there (as all Husqvarna/Jonsereds..being copied as time goes on) reduces maintenance. Light weight enough for the old back.. right ergo's too. Plenty of support as its a current saw. Plenty of information online as they have been out for a while. More torque than any 50cc option out there which makes life easier when cutting a variety of situations...it does. Certainly a better option than ANY 40cc option. Set up with .050 3/8 chain means any dealer any where will have chains for it. What else could a typical fire wood type want?

If you can't handle the Husqvarna/Jonsered diversity then the equivalent Stihl ..is there one? yup.. MS362

And for reference I'm late 50's and "Arthur" has really setup shop in the worst place along with some permanent damage from "mid life crisis" events where I'm missing critical wear parts from the lower extremities. We cut mostly hard wood, beech, Hard maple, oak etc. I use 7 cords typically to heat this place and have a 555 when I can have any saw on the planet. Typically it's been back up as I run current project saws but STILL is my preferred option.

leme cee from local websites

MS362  59cc, 4.7hp, 12.8lbs  $730-$800 list price depending on configuration
MS261  50.5cc, 3.9hp, 11.6lbs, $600-$700 depending on configuration
Husqvarna 555 59.8cc, 4,3hp, 12.38lbs, $600 list price.
Husqvarna 550XP 50.1cc, 3.75hp, 10.6lbs, $600

Hummm...on paper all look excellent.

Lots to choose from.
For "balance"
Husqvarna 562xp, 59.8cc, 4.7hp, 13.45lbs. $800... begins to push the price and weight points for me.

[Ada Shaker]

I have replaced two carburettors, both of them with defective needle valves, something that can happen to any saw. Don't remember the price, so it must have been a sensible price. Haven't had any problems with the electronic / computer department of any, and don't know what it would cost.

Thanx for that, really appreciate a little feedback in that department.

[Ada Shaker]

My humble opinion is the best firewood saw for the plus 50 crowd (of which I am one) cutting wood under 20inch is a Husqvarna 555 / Jonsered 2258. Period. Set up with an 18inch bar. Strong enough to cut a larger log from time to time. Fuel efficient. Very smooth with excellent anti-vibe. Not "pro level" expensive (here in the states). Best air induction/filtration out there (as all Husqvarna/Jonsereds..being copied as time goes on) reduces maintenance. Light weight enough for the old back.. right ergo's too. Plenty of support as its a current saw. Plenty of information online as they have been out for a while. More torque than any 50cc option out there which makes life easier when cutting a variety of situations...it does. Certainly a better option than ANY 40cc option. Set up with .050 3/8 chain means any dealer any where will have chains for it. What else could a typical fire wood type want?

If you can't handle the Husqvarna/Jonsered diversity then the equivalent Stihl ..is there one? yup.. MS362

And for reference I'm late 50's and "Arthur" has really setup shop in the worst place along with some permanent damage from "mid life crisis" events where I'm missing critical wear parts from the lower extremities. We cut mostly hard wood, beech, Hard maple, oak etc. I use 7 cords typically to heat this place and have a 555 when I can have any saw on the planet. Typically it's been back up as I run current project saws but STILL is my preferred option.

leme cee from local websites

MS362  59cc, 4.7hp, 12.8lbs  $730-$800 list price depending on configuration
MS261  50.5cc, 3.9hp, 11.6lbs, $600-$700 depending on configuration
Husqvarna 555 59.8cc, 4,3hp, 12.38lbs, $600 list price.
Husqvarna 550XP 50.1cc, 3.75hp, 10.6lbs, $600

Hummm...on paper all look excellent.

Lots to choose from.
For "balance"
Husqvarna 562xp, 59.8cc, 4.7hp, 13.45lbs. $800... begins to push the price and weight points for me.

Thanx weimedog.
At the moment it's not looking brand specific, as all these modern saws seem to run on similar lines, too much electronic control.
it's not so much that electronics can't do the job, it's more a case whether it can handle it. There's no doubt electronic circuits can run chainsaw speeds of 10,000rpm, 100,000rpm or even 1,000,000rpm (if you can make one this fast), discrete electronic components can  typically run within a few billionths of a second so the circuits are definitely waiting for the piston to catch up (like watching an episode of the six million dollar man for those young enough to remember it), i just don't personally have enough confidence in it all, not because it won't work, but more with issues of longevity/stability, on field running, etc..... it's not the kind of saw id like to take out on the field after an hours or so drive, and have a failure i can't circumvent on the spot. I try to carry a backup when i go out, but that ones not running at the moment and had to resort to a bigger saw for my last outing. I really don't see the sense in an electronic control circuit in a chain saw, it think it's an Achilles heel. I understand it will/could make the saw run faster, leaner, fly through wood, etc....Doesn't change that heel. Does the justification for a leaner, faster, lighter saw, etc...make that heel worth while, not IMHO. I think i'll be looking for a slightly earlier model without all the bells and whistles.....I do like the earlier electronic ignitions and that ezy start chansaw thingamaggigy, at least something came out half baked right.

[weimedog]

I love my old Homelite XL925, you can go back to that era!.... cut a lot of wood with that old beast! Just it hurts the back a bit too much. Since almost every saw since the 1980's have some level of electronics, I think you are stuck with some level be it cdi or some other thing you can't fix on the fly...AND one generation older saws then the 555 have ignitions you might like better.... you can swap them out with a 4mm Allen and a feeler gauge! SO maybe a older design like 357XP.... carry a spare carb and ignition! Even the older points saws you would have to carry a puller for the flywheel ...as you would with a 555 to fix or swap ignitions... But I think you can over analyze  this stuff really easily.

My solution. Two saws. the 555 typically is one, and a project saw the other.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I'm no mechanic. My Sthil 440 died (maybe I can find a reasonable mechanic to rebuild it cheaper than a new saw but the dealer would not) so I got a new 441. I did get the 24" bar this time and I like it as do not have to bend as much. I may hit dirt or rock more often than I did with 20" bar but I keep one of the 12 volt sharpeners in my kit and can re-sharpen a chain quickly in the field connecting it to my 4 wheeler on pick up battery). I have the Sthil sharpener but when it dies I'm going back to Oregon like I had before with the switch on the box and uses everyone's stones.

   My wife has a little easy start and really likes that.

[Ada Shaker]

I love my old Homelite XL925, you can go back to that era!.... cut a lot of wood with that old beast! Just it hurts the back a bit too much. Since almost every saw since the 1980's have some level of electronics, I think you are stuck with some level be it cdi or some other thing you can't fix on the fly...AND one generation older saws then the 555 have ignitions you might like better.... you can swap them out with a 4mm Allen and a feeler gauge! SO maybe a older design like 357XP.... carry a spare carb and ignition! Even the older points saws you would have to carry a puller for the flywheel ...as you would with a 555 to fix or swap ignitions... But I think you can over analyze  this stuff really easily.

My solution. Two saws. the 555 typically is one, and a project saw the other.

Hi weimdog
357xp sounds good albeit a little heavier, not necessarily a bad thing. electronic ignition r gr8, much better than point IMHO, and pack more punch. There are limits i'll happily accept in a chainsaw with regards to electronics, but when you start getting into microprocessor control and SMD's, I tend to back off a little.

1. All the bugs need to be ironed out first at the factory during the design stage, I'm not their guinea pig.
2. Product support is often limited to a number of years in most cases, at which time spare parts can no longer be had for items that are protected under intellectual property rights (good luck finding an electronic module in years to come). Look, i've just had a quick search on the net and stihl doesn't seem to be floated on the stock market yet so they may stihl be about maintaining reputation rather than making shareholders happy, if their kind enough they may supply sufficient electronic spare parts for many years to come, but buyer beware.

[Ada Shaker]

   I'm no mechanic. My Sthil 440 died (maybe I can find a reasonable mechanic to rebuild it cheaper than a new saw but the dealer would not) so I got a new 441. I did get the 24" bar this time and I like it as do not have to bend as much. I may hit dirt or rock more often than I did with 20" bar but I keep one of the 12 volt sharpeners in my kit and can re-sharpen a chain quickly in the field connecting it to my 4 wheeler on pick up battery). I have the Sthil sharpener but when it dies I'm going back to Oregon like I had before with the switch on the box and uses everyone's stones.

   My wife has a little easy start and really likes that.

Sorry to hear that, I wonder what happened to that 440?????

Maybe if she served you well, you might consider setting aside a small plot in the garden and giving her a decent burial and all that, a nice timber slabbed headstone made from the 441 would be fitting me thinks  ;D ;D

[lamimartin]

Hi,
I can only tell you good things about my old fashion Stihl MS261 I used intensively all day long every week-end last year.  I tested compression and bought is used. This is a professional saw with very low maintenance and very high reliability level. All I needed to do so far is to change the spark plug, chean up the air filter, change the bar and sprocket gear.  If you keep the chains sharp, this is all there is to do.

I'm 6'1" but I still prefer to keep the original 16" blade simply because it is well balanced and light. I got a 92cc saw for falling and chopping bigger logs. Most of my firewood is within 16 in.  If the MS261 is you only saw, getting setup on a 18 in bar is a very good idea.  If you hate sharpening blades, you may consider carbide tipped chains from Stihl. They are excellent to minimize maintenance and I do sharpen them with a dremel and a 5/32" Diamond Chainsaw Sharpener Burr Stone Round File. You can also touch it up with a manual diamond round file. It is not cutting as fast as a low profile cutting chain, but it does remain sharp for a very very long time.

As for the suggestion from weimedog, I would simply say you have plenty of power with the lighter MS261 on any hardwood. Mine is a plain MS261, with mechanical carb, not the latest electronic adjusted carb. The electronic control over the carb is to safe on fuel and optimize power. In both cases, if you only use premium gas without ethanol and good quality oil at the recommended 50:1 mix, you are unlikely to have problems. The Huskvana 555 has the SAME electronic optimization for fuel economy and performance as the MS251c.  If electronic controlled saw makes  you feel bad,  you may check of a used older pro saw like mine.

If you use regular gas with ethanol, or forget to drain your carb whenver you chainsaw is unused for a few months, ANY brand of ANY model will run poorly, fail to start and end up at the repair shop. Again, MS261 is a professional level saw, designed to run all day long. I don't know about Husky 555, but specs of Husqvarna 545 appear to be the closest competitor of the MS261c.

MS261  50.5cc, 3.9hp, 11.6lbs,
Husqvarna 555 59.8cc, 4,3hp, 12.38lbs
Husqvarna 545 50.01cc  3.35HP, 10.8lbs