soil

[Rod]

what does a site index 80 mean ?and what does the GuD and PGF and LaE mean?

[Texas Ranger]

Site index of 80 means the species will grow 80 feet in a set time period, here in the south 50 years.  Shows productivity, more or less, for a particular soil type for a particular species.  The three, GuD and PGF and LaE, are soils types, and different from any I can find in Texas soils.  Check with your local Soil Conservation Service (or Farm service agency, or what ever they are calling themselves this week)

[Rod]

Thanks ranger,I just learned something new today 8)...

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, site index is usually height attained at 50 years of age. Same in my kneck of the woods.

However, I can't make heads or tales from your soil profile taxonomy. The one GuD may be closely related to a Gypsic soil horizon in a humid climate, not sure what state your in or if that description is even related. Your agricultural department or local library may have a site classification book which defines each site type, soil horizons, soil units, and forest vegetation types.

Such classification books contain pages which are water/smudge proof and useable in the field. They may look similar the one below, which is for my region of New Brunswick.

cheers

[Rod]

I'm in West Virginia.

[Tom]

Rod, your library probably has the info for your area if you know where to look.  The suggestion to talk to the Soil and Water Conservation office locally is the best bet.  You will probably find that a lot of the soil designatios carry local names and wouldn't be recognized outside of your area.  Our Soil and water Conservation office gave the documentation away for free.  It was a prety thick book representing the county and was nicely done in hardback.   One of the best documents the Government ever gave to me.  Usually this information is directed toward developers so that they can permit land clearing and digging.

[Rod]

Right Tom,I didn't know it was different in different places.I thought it was all the same.everywere.I thought I could find out about in with google put nothing came up.I guess I'll have to go to the library.I looked at the WV Foresty web site and it didn't have nothing about soil either.Thanks

[Tom]

This might be a start.

http://www.wvca.us/

there are list in the bottom and top borders that includes "Districts".  Perhaps there are local contacts to be had.

[SwampDonkey]

Here is the National Soil Taxonomy Keys (2.5 MB PDF)

Soils Taxonomy and maps site

Maps of soil orders

Soil Profiles

State Soils

Service Centre Locator by County in WV

cheers

[1953greg]

rod,   those groups of letters are soil symbols that represent a soil type.  symbols are specific to each county.  sometimes groups of counties use the same ones.  there is an ongoing effort to have the same symbol for the same soil throughout each state.  there are over 5000 soils in the us so the same symbol can/will mean different soils.  when there are 3 letters the first 2 is the soil symbol and the last is the slope.  GuD could mean gullied land on a D slope (~12-20% slope), LaE maybe lax on an E slope (~20-30%), PGF is a little strange as all 3 are capital letters.  most likely a f slope (~30-45%) but not sure about the PG.  these are all guesses as i hail from ky and you are in wv.  your local usda-nrcs office can give you more info than you need.  here is a link to your state nrcs website.  http://www.wv.nrcs.usda.gov  find "soils" in the upper rt corner.  there you can find out what info is availableand how to get it.    i can give you more websites if you need to get technical.   i hope this is not overkill.  i  make maps like that.   1953greg   

[Rod]

I called the forester but he wasn'r in so I called the forester in the next county and he said I had to talk to my county forester cause each county is different on that stuff.He said I could pick up a book at the foresters office that explains the soils for free.

[sprucebunny]

1953greg
Please tell us more about making "maps like that "
Do you go out and dig alot of holes ???
I am fascinated by maps and have the soil survey for my land. I am very interested in how the bounderies for each soil type are decided/located and the probibility of accuracy and generally how it's done.
Thanks

[SwampDonkey]

Speaking for my kneck of the woods, our soil classification is tied quite strongly with vegetation cover. On small sites like a 100 acre woodlot there may be a pit dug in each stand after it's typed by the vegetation present, the pit verifies the soil type. On large tracts of land the pits may be 1-10 km apart or they use fresh escavated road side ditches to determine the soil type.

Your Colton and Steedman Soils are similar to our podzols (with iron) although ours have either a Ah (humus) or Ae (leeched) top horizon, Ap means ploughed field. Some soils to our south are Gleysols with (pink soil mottling )because of heavy clay content and fluctuating water table over sandstone bedrock (Pennsylvanian).

cheers

[1953greg]

sprucebunny,   cores (verticle column of soil)  are pulled w/ a T shaped 1" diameter tool,  looked at and felt for texture if the soil isnt rocky.  if it is we use a screw auger  w/ closed cylinder walls to bring up a 3" sample.  if its too rocky for that we use a tile spade and excavate.  if its too rocky for that we use a heavy duty tile spade called a montana sharpshooter (~20lbs).  if its too rocky for that we move!  many many observations/day are made (holes dug, fresh road cuts, basements, ect.) in the first 6-8 months to identify each soil and then as we get to know a particular area, fewer and fewer are made each week.  think of the landscape like pieces of a puzzle and they have to "fit" together.  the pieces are seperated by slope (steepness) and each slope is seperated by soil type if necessary.  sometimes multiple soils are within a single piece called a complex.  always there are inclusions (areas too small to draw).  if you will take your soil survey out in the field w/ you, get oriented, then observe the slope breaks and vegetation changes i think a light will come on for you.  as for accuracy, we shoot for 90% correctness 100' from a line.  the new england area is my most uneducated area as i havent been farther than the big apple, however i have worked in alaska for 3 months.  i think most all of new england is glacial till as can be identified by rounded rocks outside of streams.  if this is true then there is great variability as the glaciers really did a number as they advanced and receeded multiple times.  there is usually a pretty good geology section near the front of your soil survey that can enlighten you.  takes about 2-4 man years per 100k acres depending on terrain and complexity to produce those maps.  the tables in the back have lots of info complied to produce data also.  some conservationist in local usda-nrcs offices have a pretty good working knowledge of the soils and can do a great job of explaining (and want to) and some dont want to know or show and only use the maps as they have to.  maybe you have the former.  here is a link to your state nrcs website.  theres lots of other info there  http://www.nh.nrcs.usda.gov/

swampdonkey, you are right on about the vegeation.  always a dead giveaway on major differences and thats the big picture.  there are also suttle differences that could be significant for some applications. 

there are about 600 of us across the u s that have dug / are digging / will dig many many many holes.  sometimes, maybe 10-12 per county, we rent a backhoe to dig grave size pits for better observation and sampling.  one of our pits was "discovered" and the cops staked it out for a couple weeks til word got around back to us and we had to "fess up".  we all had a really good laugh before we filled it in. 

18 years of digging holes and drawing lines after 14 years of growing corn tobacco n soybeans.  i like digging n drawing better.   

one more thing, always always always consult someone w/ soils knowledge before construction!  this excludes "engineers" by definition.  order II soil maps (which is what you have) are not site specific!  we dont enjoy going out and telling someone why their foundation/walls have cracked,  their septic doesnt work or why they are flooded.   they usually comeback with something like "why didnt someone tell me that before".     regards  1953greg

[sprucebunny]

Thanks Greg
Sounds like a good outdoor job.
You are right about the glaciers doing a number on the soil. Many places are very scrambled.
I can see that vegetation would be an indicator of soil type but wouldn't repeated patch cutting for different species of tree over a hundred years change some of the indicators ?
The cutting on this land makes it hard to see where the soil type boundries might be but it's fun looking ;D
Survey says..... I have every kind of "muck" that NH has to offer on my land : 4 kinds.  :

[Ernie]

Glad I didn't die yesterday, I wouldn't have  known that, how do I find specs for NZ

[1953greg]

sprucebunny, there are laws of natural selection that will dictate what plants can grow where unless man does 100% control.  maybe 80-90% of the vegetation will be common to joining pieces.  look for the differences.  sometimes only 5% common.  thats when it really jumps out.  like the muck.
 
ernie,  maybe nz has a dept of ag.  im not a polywog.  i havent been n the southern hemisphere.  sorry  1953greg

[Ernie]

Greg, as they say in some TV programme, "Come on down".  The weather is great and you are welcome any time.  I recommend our summer, your winter.

[SwampDonkey]

sprucebunney,

That's where we use 'indicator species' that are site specific. The opposite are the common species. Using a common species that is frequent throughout a large range of soils isn't wise. Indicator species can include mosses, sedges, ferns and lichens as well as vascular plants.