New sawmill

[underwaterlogger]

I'm wanting to purchase a new bigger sawmill. Woodmizer lt50 wide seems to be the best option but I'm wondering the best power sorce. Electric would be fine since I'm using it at my shop and not traveling. But I'm worried about the power consumption. Gas and diesel will be more moving parts to maintenance, fuel cost, carb clogs, oil changes and more expense to buy. I like the quiet sound of electric. Any ideas guys? How about you Jeff?

[Ianab]

As long as you can get the power you need for a sensible cost, then electric is going to be cheaper to run, and maintain. The electric motor is also better for powering a mill as the torque curve is more suitable. If you slow an electric motor down, the available torque actually increases, and this helps resist any further slowdown. With a gas engine, the torque tends to drop off with the lower revs, and so the mill bogs down more, looses blade speed, and you have to ease up to let it recover.

Only reason to consider a gas or diesel for a stationary mill is if your utility company want a silly amount of $$ to connect you up, or can't offer the service to your location.

Yes your power bill is going to go up, but your fuel bill will go down by more, so you win there.

[Neilo]

I half expected this thread to be a follow on from Dead Tree Too Close To Sawmill topic
Sorry to hijack your thread

[Riwaka]

What kind of permits do you need to run a sawmilling op, are the neighbours going to complain?
Electric components are not cheap for quality items, how often will you need to call out an electrician versus wrenching for yourself on a diesel motor?

Electric motors are not silent; you still have fan and other noises and often the pulley/ belt noise.  There are sound charts for electric motors.
Diesels- some don't make as much noise as they did in the past with turbos, inter coolers etc and good sound proofing, exhaust design.

You might need to talk to an electrical engineer to discuss what you intend to do, running large electric motors is not just putting a plug in a wall and flipping a switch.
Capacitor banks, variable speed drives, transformers, cable sizes etc

Diesel - getting  quality fuel, various efficiency products, storage - anti-microbial additives, filtration, Is the diesel power machine  likely to have better resale than an electric unit?

[PA_Walnut]

Modern electric motors are amazing. (check a Tesla automobile). Tons of torque, efficient and relatively low maintenance.

As mentioned, check with power company on costs and caveats. If you need another run/feed, chances are they will automatically rate it as commercial, even if it's not.

I know a man that wanted electric mill, and after the power company gave him the estimate, he opted for a big tow-behind 3-phase generator that was powered by diesel. Seems like circular logic, but he was very happy how it worked and pleased that, if he chose to, he could bunker-up during the zombie apocalypse and use his generator in lieu of the power feed to his home!  8)

[customsawyer]

Go electric if you can. When I went with an electric edger my electric bill went up $64.00/month which is about two days worth of diesel on the other edger. I have never had to buy a filter, change the oil, clean the radiator, or had the throttle linkage mess up. The cost of running electric is considerable cheaper than gas or diesel.

[dboyt]

Do you have 3-phase at the shop, or are you planning on running a phase converter?  What voltage?

[drobertson]

Clearly a 3ph 25 hp would be the ticket,  only draw back I can see is the potential for occasional power outage.

[sealark37]

Our local sawmill switched from diesel, (Detroit) to three-phase electric about ten years ago.  He says it cut his cost in half, maintenance to nearly zero.     Regards, Clark

[muggs]

If you can tell me what you are paying per KWH. What size motor you want to run. 3 phase or single phase. I can tell you about what it will cost to run. I can tell you it will be cheaper than an IC engine.   8)      Muggs

[Dave Shepard]

The electric mills are much quieter than gas or diesel, but they still make a bit of noise in the cut. Enough to want ear protction. Electric is great, if you have the power and are not portable.

[irvi00]

Electric is definitely the way to go if portability is not an issue. But definitely check to see how much three phase power is going to cost. I have an lt50 electric and I converted my rotochopper mulch grinder over to electric. Best decision I ever made. I saw or grind mulch daily, 5 days a week. Sawmill, edger, conveyors, chipper and mulch grinder runs around $500 a month.

[Ianab]

I know a man that wanted electric mill, and after the power company gave him the estimate, he opted for a big tow-behind 3-phase generator that was powered by diesel. Seems like circular logic, but he was very happy how it worked and pleased that, if he chose to, he could bunker-up during the zombie apocalypse and use his generator in lieu of the power feed to his home!  8)

That's an option if the power company want silly money to put in a new line / transformer etc. At least with a decent genset you can power the mill, lights, planer, coffee pot etc, and not have a power bill at all.

Diesel is going to cost more than the mains power, but if you compare a $10,000 generator to a $30K power install, you can buy a lot of diesel for that.

And have backup power to the house when needed... 

[grouch]

There's nothing magic about 3 phase. Some electric companies are willing to install it for farms, ranches and businesses; some won't provide it except in industrial parks. If you don't have 3 phase available, stick with single phase. It's still going to be cheaper than diesel fuel or gasoline.

[muggs]

If you decide to bring in 3 phase. Do your homework, ask about demand charges and minimum usage charge. As a sidenote I build large single phase motors no phase converter needed. 8)  Muggs

[nativewolf]

Electric is definitely the way to go if portability is not an issue. But definitely check to see how much three phase power is going to cost. I have an lt50 electric and I converted my rotochopper mulch grinder over to electric. Best decision I ever made. I saw or grind mulch daily, 5 days a week. Sawmill, edger, conveyors, chipper and mulch grinder runs around $500 a month.

Not wanting to hijack but if I could ask what is the market for the mulch grinder product?   Are you sending chips to fuel plants or making mulch or?

[4x4American]

There's nothing magic about 3 phase. Some electric companies are willing to install it for farms, ranches and businesses; some won't provide it except in industrial parks. If you don't have 3 phase available, stick with single phase. It's still going to be cheaper than diesel fuel or gasoline.

Please call up Nat Grid and tell them that.  3-Phase is 4 miles and half a milli $ away!

[grouch]

There's nothing magic about 3 phase. Some electric companies are willing to install it for farms, ranches and businesses; some won't provide it except in industrial parks. If you don't have 3 phase available, stick with single phase. It's still going to be cheaper than diesel fuel or gasoline.

Please call up Nat Grid and tell them that.  3-Phase is 4 miles and half a milli $ away!

Can't get something for nothing. It costs money to run and maintain wires. If there's only 1 customer wanting that service, the cost doesn't get spread very thinly.

As I said above, there's nothing magic about it so if it's not available, use single phase. You'll still get all the advantages of an electric motor over an internal combustion engine for a stationary setup:
maximum torque at stall;
lower operating costs;
lower maintenance;
lower noise;
lower fire hazard;
no storing of oil, fuel, coolant for the power plant;
no disposal problems for oil and coolant;
no oil, air, fuel filters (and changing of same);
no rings, rods, pistons, bearings, seals, valves and gaskets to wear out;
and even the ability to make your own 'fuel' for the electric motor.

I replaced a 15 Hp diesel engine on an air compressor with a 7.5 Hp 240V farm duty electric motor. It has been more than enough power; could have gotten by with about 5 Hp. No maintenance needed on that electric motor for over ten years now. I think it's paid for itself a few times over in just oil and filters saved.

[irvi00]

Electric is definitely the way to go if portability is not an issue. But definitely check to see how much three phase power is going to cost. I have an lt50 electric and I converted my rotochopper mulch grinder over to electric. Best decision I ever made. I saw or grind mulch daily, 5 days a week. Sawmill, edger, conveyors, chipper and mulch grinder runs around $500 a month.

Not wanting to hijack but if I could ask what is the market for the mulch grinder product?   Are you sending chips to fuel plants or making mulch or?

It's a rotochopper CP118. It takes the chips from the mill and regrinds into mulch. I make color enhanced mulch with it. It's a great machine but it came with a lemon motor.

[ut_cottonwood]

There's nothing magic about 3 phase. Some electric companies are willing to install it for farms, ranches and businesses; some won't provide it except in industrial parks. If you don't have 3 phase available, stick with single phase. It's still going to be cheaper than diesel fuel or gasoline.

Please call up Nat Grid and tell them that.  3-Phase is 4 miles and half a milli $ away!

Most NEMA 3 ph motors are rated for VFD use.  VFDs can accept single phase 240v input and output 3ph 208v, usually with a 50% derating to the VFD nameplate HP, i.e. 20hp VFD for a 10hp motor.  A pricey option but significantly cheaper than running 3ph lines 4 miles.

[Stuart Caruk]

I built my capacitor balanced, kicker motor started 60HP phase converter for under $200.
I run it from a dedicated single phase 240VAC panel at 200 amps. It has run everything in my shop. Mostly large CNC machines. Even my Integrex that had a nameplate rating of 80KVA. It's far cheaper than bringing in 3 phase.

But, I'd look at a Woodmizer LX450 before I'd ever consider an LT50 or even 70. It's got a larger capacity than even the LT70wide, for a lot less dollars. Still isn't available in electric though.