Simple harvester/professor head

[Corley5]

Taxes...  The reason I still have a harvester.  It wouldn't have been wise to liquidate it last year :

[Firewoodjoe]

Those stroke heads are just to slow. I think I could cut the large logs and trim all of it and produce a decent amount very cheap if I had a way to handle the smaller stuff. Like an inwoods slasher. I'm not looking for huge numbers 15-20 cord a day with very low over head is my goal. I'd love to do it all with one machine. I've even considered mounting a buck saw on the back of a forwarder and just slash the trees! 👍

[quilbilly]

Does it have to be done in the woods? Or can you tree length to a landing

[starmac]

I see that the shears are considered slow, I think hat must depend on what a guy is cutting. The reason I say that is one of the loggers I hauled for cut pulp only, and farmed out the felling to a friend that has a shear. I do not know how fast he could cut, but it took me two weeks to haul what he could drop in one day. The area they were logging I didn't have to go through any scales, so there might have been a little outlaw loads coming out of there, but I would average 70 tons a day 5 days a week, and he only cut about once every other week.
That logger retired when our pulp market went away, but even at that it was much different than your pulp market, as we hauled it in in 50 footers, down to a 3 inch top. The pulp was for a pellet mill, and they didn't want anything less than 24 foot, we have zero market ofr ctl and I don't know of a forwarder anywhere in the state, at least the interior.
The logger farmed out the felling  to the shear, and shovel logged exclusively. He did have a 650 john deere with the logging package on, mainly to build the roads and landing, but did skid some house logs with it. He also had a part time hired hand that did the topping to length, but he only worked one day a week.
He was probably the most efficient logger in the immediate area, I do not know how well he actually did at the end of the day, but with his two pieces of equipment, plus the shear, and hiring me to haul, he would consistently put 68 to 70 tons a day to the mill at 50 bucks a ton. I do not know what the shear cost him, but mt pay was 1000 a day, which was a good job for me.

[mike_belben]

With a big bank note, theres never any downtime.  Rain shine hot cold Go Go Go!  

That's not true. You set it up so your payments don't kill you. 

Youll have to teach me that trick someday.  
I have a buddy who is a repo man, and it takes him quite a staff and fleet of equipment to track down and drive off with a lot of stuff that people apparently setup their payments wrong. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Quilbilly yes it has to be done at the stump if it is a ctl sale only.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Mike you seem to be all doom and gloom. I also have a buddy at a lending institution and it also takes lots of people at the banks to lend lots of money to the guys out there who work hard and are successful in this business.

Setup your equipment loans for 9 payments a year so during "spring breakup" you don't have to make payments. Make a large enough down payment so that your monthly payments are manageable, if you can't afford the down payment then hold off. Generally newer iron will allow you longer terms, lower interest rates, etc.

I don't have any logging equipment of my own, but do have plenty of farm equipment and growing every year. Like snowstorm said it takes money to make money. A good accountant/tax guy are imparative.

[Firewoodjoe]

I was always told that money can be made and lost just in paper work. I hate paper work🤪

[chevytaHOE5674]

I was always told that money can be made and lost just in paper work. I hate paper work🤪

Very true. That is where paying a knowledgeable accountant and tax person is money well spent.

[Corley5]

I could get 20 cords a day in hardwood with the Risely Slingshot I had.  But it was bigger than what you've got in mind.

[Firewoodjoe]

I just think that's not enough production to spend the money and maintain a machine. I know I could hand cut 15 cord a day in decent wood. Average 2 cord per tank in the saw. I use to run 10-15 tanks a day trimming hardwood. That's 100 cord per 8 hours for a slasher.

[Firewoodjoe]

I'd be curious to know cost per ton/cord for you processor guys. At the end of the month. After all exspenise including machine payment and labor. I'd almost bet it less than $35 per cord.

[Firewoodjoe]

I wrote that wrong. I bet your not making $35 per cord.

[chevytaHOE5674]

If your trying to compare operating cost etc then there is no doubt a chainsaw and an old skidder are going to have lower costs thus make more per cord. 

But a 2 man processor /forwarder crew is an entirely different scale. Your comparing a 15-20 cord per day saw and skidder to a 50-100 cord per day mechanized crew. So while you may make less per cord you make up for it with volume.

[Corley5]

You're young now.  How much longer will you be able to keep up that pace and at what cost ???  There's a price to pay later for working that hard now.  Pushing buttons and working joy sticks cutting trees from the safety and comfort of a cab is worth a whole bunch

[chevytaHOE5674]

True that. I know a few hand cutters that look and act like they are 80 but are only 45... hahaha

[Firewoodjoe]

All said I understand. I will have a least a buncher within the year for safety and production. And it takes a lot of physical work out when it's in a pile. Also my dad is 60 and runs a 372 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. I also have a friend that is 66 and also runs saw felling and bucking every stick. I understand when your old u don't want to but there's a lot of guys that did and still do. All to there own I guess.

[Skeans1]

8 hours a day falling timber? You guys aren't required to quit after 6?

[mike_belben]

Ha.  

[mike_belben]

Mike you seem to be all doom and gloom. 

Oh i am. youll never know the half of it.

[Skeans1]

Ha.  

Mike it's not a choice out here it's a state rule 6 hours a day is all you're allowed hand falling out here.

[mike_belben]

I cant speak for others but you can do whatever the heck you want where i live.  Theres no one to stop you.

[timbco68]

As to the cost of ctl vs conventional logging, ctl is an expensive way to cut wood. A guy that I used to custom fall for with the timbco had 3 conventional crews and 2 ctl at one time. He dropped one of the ctl crews and now I believe he has shut down the other. His forester told me a rule of thumb that the ctl costs about 10 $ a cord more to run than conventional logging. I tell you what, when you get 2 timbcos falling wood ahead of 3 or 4 748 - 848 skidders, pulling to 3 risley limmits: it would blow your mind how much wood you can pour through.

[BargeMonkey]

 wait.... 6hrs ? what do you do for the other 8 ? 

 I know Gutchess pays a couple bucks more a ton for wood that's come out on forwarder, the firewood processor guys I deal with will only take 1-2ld of really muddy wood before they start calling someone else. 
 A good lawyer and a sharp accountant are a must the first 2yrs. Are you going to stay working a "regular job" and cut wood when you can ? I also hate the paperwork but giving the government extra money is worse. My bank had me form another LLC recently for a "holding company", you want to make sure your business liabilities and you personally are separate so you hopefully never lose your house do to a problem, they may get something but they won't get it all. 
 I say "dark ages" because this area is horrible for utilization, no chips, only the very best fir
wood comes out on alot of these jobs. The good stumpage is still around but you've got to hunt for it, alot of high graded jobs that where smashed quick. 
 A buncher is the game changer, once it's on the ground it doesn't matter how it goes out of the woods. 

[Firewoodjoe]

No we have no regs that I'm aware of. And barge this will be full time with in a few months. And to all I know ctl is a better cleaner way. It's hard to wrap my head around "spend more make less" when I can still physically do it myself. 20 years from now is a diff story. From a money stand point u save fuel and workers comp. The rest is land owner, environmental, cleanliness and physical workout which all cost more money or catches up someday anyways. around here the only guys where I see it pay off the same or better is in pine. Your pretty much limited to one stem at a time with pine no matter the equipment. At least and have it clean.