New MILL Circular or bandsaw??? Brand??

[dgdrls]

Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?

Yes.  If you had one or the other already you would make do and not too badly either and you'd be sawing not thinking about it.    But you wouldn't prefer to saw 1" material with a swing mill having 1/4" kerf, especially from logs 16" and smaller, if you had the choice.  Being set up at home and having good log handling equipment to some degree would tip the scales back a little towards the swing mill.
I have both mills and am 100% portable.  The band mill has the edge on quick setup and hydraulics takes most of the work out of handling the logs.  Swing mills are touted as being portable and yes, they are, but so is a band mill when it's hooked up to your truck.

Which mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs

Peterson,  It will do all you want for your build, it breaks down for storage/transport  quite well and it will do the occasional big ones without issue

D

[TKehl]

Frankly, I'd pick option C.  At half the price of either, an EZ Boardwalk 40 with extension to do your 20' logs and plenty of width.  After some experience, if you want to upgrade, you'll get most of your $ back in resale.  

I've just seen too many high $$ mills being sold with under 100 hours.  Guy in another thread just picked up a one year old LT50 (or 70???) with a diesel and lots of extras for $10k under the current base model with gas engine...  

In any case, I wouldn't put any $ down until you take Mt406 up on his offer.  Brochures are nice, youtube is better, but there is no substitute to getting your hands on equipment to see what you like and don't like.

[Ianab]

Which mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs 

The Peterson of those 2 in pretty much every scenario. Heck I'd keep my 6" cut swingblade vs a manual band saw. 
 
A cheaper manual bandmill (EZ Boardwalk etc) has it's place, because it's cheaper, and it works. (but so do you) 
An expensive automated band mill has it's place, because it's high production without as much manual labour. But that's a big investment. 

Certainly take Mt406 up on the offer to go and see his mills running. Then you can get a better idea of how they will fit into your needs. The Swing blades are very simple to operate, and you can get sawing with minimal experience. Blade maintenance is simple etc. But there is a different "thought process" to the sawing. I can see how someone used to a band mill might take a bit of time to get their head around the different sawing process. 

[Wyoelkhunter]

Frankly, I'd pick option C.  At half the price of either, an EZ Boardwalk 40 with extension to do your 20' logs and plenty of width.  After some experience, if you want to upgrade, you'll get most of your $ back in resale.  

I've just seen too many high $$ mills being sold with under 100 hours.  Guy in another thread just picked up a one year old LT50 (or 70???) with a diesel and lots of extras for $10k under the current base model with gas engine...  

In any case, I wouldn't put any $ down until you take Mt406 up on his offer.  Brochures are nice, youtube is better, but there is no substitute to getting your hands on equipment to see what you like and don't like.

Thank you i haven't seen that brand i'll check them out! 
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[Wyoelkhunter]

Which mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs

The Peterson of those 2 in pretty much every scenario. Heck I'd keep my 6" cut swingblade vs a manual band saw.

A cheaper manual bandmill (EZ Boardwalk etc) has it's place, because it's cheaper, and it works. (but so do you)
An expensive automated band mill has it's place, because it's high production without as much manual labour. But that's a big investment.

Certainly take Mt406 up on the offer to go and see his mills running. Then you can get a better idea of how they will fit into your needs. The Swing blades are very simple to operate, and you can get sawing with minimal experience. Blade maintenance is simple etc. But there is a different "thought process" to the sawing. I can see how someone used to a band mill might take a bit of time to get their head around the different sawing process.

Which would you choose between a peterson and a lucas? I can get a lucas 10-30 for about 8k less that a peterson WPF 10''. Is the peterson that much better? 

[Don P]

Depends.  My mill maxes at a 6" cut

Assuming similar HP and experience.  On a 1x6 it's probably about even with a bandmill on 16" logs when edging is considered.  1x6 through 1x12, the bandmill is ahead.  Larger than 1x12" I can't even do.  I also can't get more than one 12" wide board per layer.

Numbers go up with a bigger swinger, but it definitely has it's perks and it's limitations.  

That said, I think Magicman's LT40 super would SMOKE my mill in a competition...  

We've put a "swingset" at the end of the lucas with a winch and hook and can swing the powerhead around in under 30 seconds producing a 1x12 + up to 1x6's, depending on open face width, with every drop.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?

Yes.  If you had one or the other already you would make do and not too badly either and you'd be sawing not thinking about it.    But you wouldn't prefer to saw 1" material with a swing mill having 1/4" kerf, especially from logs 16" and smaller, if you had the choice.  Being set up at home and having good log handling equipment to some degree would tip the scales back a little towards the swing mill.
I have both mills and am 100% portable.  The band mill has the edge on quick setup and hydraulics takes most of the work out of handling the logs.  Swing mills are touted as being portable and yes, they are, but so is a band mill when it's hooked up to your truck.

Which mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs

I don't know how to answer that question. I'd rather swing the mill head than turn big logs by hand.  Both are a manual workout and make me tired just thinking about it-you should post your age in your profile.  If I just needed to saw out a house, didn't have a mill, and had the money for a 10" WPF I'd also be thinking about a used hydraulic band mill which would be about the same price as the WPF.  Also I wouldn't be worrying about blades or going from one end to the other as on a Lucas. Not that big a deal you'd get your house sawn out on either one.  For the long haul don't get a manual band mill if you're going to do a lot of sawing of heavy logs.  A swing mill would have an advantage if you wanted to saw a lot of long beams out of 24-30" diameter logs and can handle both long heavy logs and beams. You'd like it for 2x and beams but not enjoy cranking out mountains of 1" with it. If it is really just for a house then just make sure what you get will saw the boards you need, you should have a lot of fun doing it no matter what mill you buy (well maybe not a chainsaw mill). 

[Wyoelkhunter]

Thanks for all the info and advice, so i am 33 years old and this mill will pretty much be for the house project and then some random projects here and there but i am not planning on sawing for a living or for profit this will just be for my own personal stuff. I also have a barn on the property that i just bought thats needs some fixing up with some reinforcing and that type of stuff. I would really like to keep it around the 15K mark but could go as much as 20K on the mill. I do have a couple dozen doug fir in the 20-30'' range but anything more than that i will have to have to buy from our local logging company so i don't want to dump too much into the mill. As many timbers and rafters and 2x material i plan on cutting i get the feeling the swing blade will be the way to go and i'll have to suffer through all the 1x material as i plan on milling quite a bit of 1x as well. 

[redneckman]

Fords, Chevrolets, and Dodges; everyone has thier favorite.  So, I thought I would give my opinion too, just from a different angle.  I considered band mills, chainsaw mills, swing mills, old 100 year old fricks, and about everything down to a handsaw.  They are all have thier postitives and negatives.  I ended up with a LT50 woodmizer bandmill.  I am happy with my choice.

My decision was based on the fact that I wanted to start a portable sawmill business in my area.  That pretty much eliminated most of the other options because of the trouble to move the mill would outweigh the benefits of the business.  Unless I am missing something, it looks to me like you cannot cut very wide boards with a swing mill since you are limited to less than half the width of the blade.  So, my advice to you is to think bigger than just your home.  Are you wanting to sell it as soon as your home is built?  Then, I would go something less in cost, but also something that would be easily sold.  Or, if you want to do sawing for a income after your home is built, I would invest more money in the mill, and probally go with a bandmill.  Someone mentioned a LT35 hydraulic.  I agree, that would be a great mill for someone in your situation.  WM resale is extremely high, so once you figure in the cost of the lumber you are going to save, you would likely not loose any money if you decided to sell it.  Good adivce on checking with your local building codes on rough sawn lumber.  Where I live, it is permissable, as long as you harvest it off your on land.  Not sure why that matters.

One more thing to consider that is rarely mentioned.  If you watch You Tube, and pay attention to these home made mills, most have the tracks right on the ground.  At 8 AM in the morning, that is fine.  By 5 pm in the evening after a day of sawing, you will hate it.  Having the log on a mill bed waist high or so is harder to load the logs (unless you have a self loading mill), but much, much easier to saw.  You are going to have slabs that you must handle as well as the lumber, and the slabs can get really heavy.  Your back will thank you for a mill with a higher bed.  Unless you have some really big logs, a swingblade is going to work your back pretty hard because you will be bending over every time a board is cut.

[Ianab]

Which would you choose between a peterson and a lucas? I can get a lucas 10-30 for about 8k less that a peterson WPF 10''. Is the peterson that much better? 

The WPF is a better mill, but if it's worth the difference in cost is a more complicated question.

There is also the cheaper Peterson WPF that is a more similar design to the Lucas.

Thing is, there is no 100% wrong answer. You can pretty much do the task with any "real" sawmill. Some will be quicker, some easier, some cheaper etc. People talk about the width of boards, but apart from the "wide board club", most buildings use dimensioned timber. I think the biggest board in my wooden house is a 2x6. And you can still make a few over size beams or slabs with the basic swing mill. 

[Don P]

This is the swingset we've been using to spin the powerhead on the lucas. We were making 12" barn siding here. It can make dimensional lumber up to 2x12 and beams up to 6x12 just as easily.



We were doing a bunch of smaller logs this past week so simply cribbed the bunks up higher to avoid so much bending over.

Another jig, when we needed to straightline the dried dimensional for flooring we aligned and screwed a 4x12 timber on the bunks with a "fence" screwed to one edge. I would set the board against the fence and rip the opposite edge, then flip, move in and straightline the other edge.

[starmac]

When making 12 in wide, 1 or 2 x's, on a swing blade set up, how many passes does it take per board? Do you trim it down to get your 12in cant, then make a pass on each side or how does it work for the wider boards?

[NZJake]

Not sure if you guys are aware of our new M12 recently released 12" standard cuts, 24" double cuts.

https://youtu.be/HXaRpks-vUU

Keep an eye out for the Radial Master too. Releasing it at the NZ Fieldays.

[Don P]

When making 12 in wide, 1 or 2 x's, on a swing blade set up, how many passes does it take per board? Do you trim it down to get your 12in cant, then make a pass on each side or how does it work for the wider boards?

On that log we started by centering the log in between the frame rails then taking a 6" wide board off horizontally in the first passes. The next board was around 9" wide. I made a horizontal pass deep enough to establish an edge all the way down the log, flipped up vertical and removed the edging. Swing horizontal and make a 6" deep cut in two 3" deep passes and roll the carriage out onto the extensions under the swingset. We've made marks on the powerhead where the center of gravity is, throttle down to stop the blade and lock the motor at CG, clip in the winch cable and lift the powerhead carriage clear of the rails. Walk around spinning the carriage and set it back down heading the other direction. Take a horizontal cut from the opposite side and vertical cut to remove the edging. Swing horizontal and make a pass or two until the cut meets the initial horizontal cut from the opposite side and remove the board.

Then drop the rails anywhere from 1 to up to 6" depending on the thickness desired and repeat the process. With 2 of us working the spin really takes more like 15 seconds, I've not timed it. We have a routine. While I am throttling down and centering up my partner on the tail side is clipping in. By then I have the winch control and lift. As we walk around we each end up in our stations again, I lower, he guides down onto the rail, I unclip and we are off to the races again. For a 12" on a wider log he makes a mark on the log 12" from my initial edging cut that I align to.

On a larger log I might take a 1x4 or 1x6, then a 12" wide, then another 1x4 or 1x6 to keep the main plank centered. We have also taken vertical 1x6's off each side to leave a 6x12" wide cant projecting 6" above the log, then crank back up removing 12" boards in 1 or 2" drops.
The point I'm making is the mill is not limited to a 6" wide board it is limited to double that width with relative ease. In typical construction I never need wider than a 2x12 so this mill will handle that easily.

My circle mill can indeed walk circles around a swingmill or a bandmill for that matter but this moves easily to the site and is quite capable. The shoulder doc cleared me for work 2 days ago, I've turned small logs on the circle mill but am still months from being able to really honk on anything. I did some walnut on it last Saturday laying off 12" and up to 17" boards in single rapid passes, and I paid all day Sunday from turning. I've forgotten to tell the doc I've been able to work the saw end of the swingmill since Christmas because we aren't turning the log. The swingmill is not high production but is considerably easier on the body. Can it build a house? We are wrapping up a ~50x80 double crib 2 story log barn that was mostly milled with the little swingmill. The 60' 12x12's and larger stuff was done with an Alaskan, some of the boards and planks were done on my circle mill but in reality we could have done it all on the lucas. Heck the last guys did it with an axe, any of these will do the job.

[Mt406]

I will be able to talk at length tonight after 6.
I saw full time so if you want to come up and help for part of a day I have some big logs I need to make into 1 in siding for my own place. You can see both a swing blade and Band mill On the same materal.

Scott 

[starmac]

Thanks Don P. It is probably easier to do it than it is to describe it. Hope your shoulder gets better. I know I pushed mine a number of years back and it never got 100%. The doc claimed it was from pushing it, which may be right or not.

[Wyoelkhunter]

This is the swingset we've been using to spin the powerhead on the lucas. We were making 12" barn siding here. It can make dimensional lumber up to 2x12 and beams up to 6x12 just as easily.



We were doing a bunch of smaller logs this past week so simply cribbed the bunks up higher to avoid so much bending over.

Another jig, when we needed to straightline the dried dimensional for flooring we aligned and screwed a 4x12 timber on the bunks with a "fence" screwed to one edge. I would set the board against the fence and rip the opposite edge, then flip, move in and straightline the other edge.

How far apart can the uprights be positioned on the Lucas? If i need to cut full 20' material can i get that between the uprights? 
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[Wyoelkhunter]

Not sure if you guys are aware of our new M12 recently released 12" standard cuts, 24" double cuts.

https://youtu.be/HXaRpks-vUU

Keep an eye out for the Radial Master too. Releasing it at the NZ Fieldays.

Sent you a PM jake. Your mills look sweet but quite a bit pricier than the DL timber tech or Lucas. 

[Wyoelkhunter]

Which would you choose between a peterson and a lucas? I can get a lucas 10-30 for about 8k less that a peterson WPF 10''. Is the peterson that much better?  

The WPF is a better mill, but if it's worth the difference in cost is a more complicated question.

There is also the cheaper Peterson WPF that is a more similar design to the Lucas.

Thing is, there is no 100% wrong answer. You can pretty much do the task with any "real" sawmill. Some will be quicker, some easier, some cheaper etc. People talk about the width of boards, but apart from the "wide board club", most buildings use dimensioned timber. I think the biggest board in my wooden house is a 2x6. And you can still make a few over size beams or slabs with the basic swing mill.

So i checked on a price of a Peterson ATS and they are still pricier than the Lucas by about 4k but they do have both of the rail adjustments on the operator end of the mill which makes way more sense to me when adjusting the height. I do not need a ton of wide material i will be doing a lot 2x6 and 2x4 material for studs and then a bunch of 8x8s and 6x6s and a bunch of 2x10 rafters and a couple 10x20'' beams. The 1x will be random width for the ceiling of whatever widths i can get up to the max cutting capabilities of the saw but i don't want any 1x over 10'' its just too unstable. So even if i got a band mill i wouldn't use any of the super wide material so i don't see the width capabilities of the band mill being an advantage for me. 

[Ianab]

I could saw all that with my 6" swing blade. The 2x10s would need double cutting, but that's fairly simple. You only get one double cut per layer, but you need 2x4 and 2x6 anyway, so it's not a problem. The big beam you do by basically sawing off everything that's NOT a beam. Saw the first face and 6" down each side. Then flip the log over, realign it, and repeat.  Bit of messing about, but if it's only a handful of beams that size you could do it. 

So a smaller (cheaper) mill might be an option?

[Wyoelkhunter]

I could saw all that with my 6" swing blade. The 2x10s would need double cutting, but that's fairly simple. You only get one double cut per layer, but you need 2x4 and 2x6 anyway, so it's not a problem. The big beam you do by basically sawing off everything that's NOT a beam. Saw the first face and 6" down each side. Then flip the log over, realign it, and repeat.  Bit of messing about, but if it's only a handful of beams that size you could do it.

So a smaller (cheaper) mill might be an option?

Yea a smaller mill could be an option i guess. It just comes down to if the time to do the double cutting is more or less important to me than the extra money on a larger mill. 

[Don P]

How far apart can the uprights be positioned on the Lucas? If i need to cut full 20' material can i get that between the uprights?
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I'll have to measure but no you cannot get 20'ers in through the uprights, we've brought long stock in from the end either by dragging or on a long track of roller tables.
This is the slippery bark method. Roll the log onto something that gets it over the bottom crossbar and drag it in. We had dug the crossbars down below grade a little bit to help avoid snagging them. We were only skimming opposite faces on smaller logs here so set up the bunks on one side and drug in on the other then reached over the rails with equipment and lifted the log onto the bunks.
               
This is a 40' run of roller tables with a timber and small bunks on the timber. Roll the timber out beyond the mill and load then roll in and saw. I've picked up roller tables at auctions whenever possible, very handy around the mill and on construction sites.


 

[TKehl]

Don, that last picture is worth several SGU!  Been trying to figure out how to get long ones in my frame efficiently for a while!  THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!  
8)  8)  8)

Wyoelkhunter, only other thing I can add is an observation that entry level mills tend to sell quick and near list price.  As you move up the ladder there are fewer people in the "pool" of buyers.  As such resale is still good, but it takes longer and/or the discount over new on a percentage basis seems to get higher.

YMMV, as I'm only speaking statistically.

[Wyoelkhunter]

How far apart can the uprights be positioned on the Lucas? If i need to cut full 20' material can i get that between the uprights?
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I'll have to measure but no you cannot get 20'ers in through the uprights, we've brought long stock in from the end either by dragging or on a long track of roller tables.
This is the slippery bark method. Roll the log onto something that gets it over the bottom crossbar and drag it in. We had dug the crossbars down below grade a little bit to help avoid snagging them. We were only skimming opposite faces on smaller logs here so set up the bunks on one side and drug in on the other then reached over the rails with equipment and lifted the log onto the bunks.
               
This is a 40' run of roller tables with a timber and small bunks on the timber. Roll the timber out beyond the mill and load then roll in and saw. I've picked up roller tables at auctions whenever possible, very handy around the mill and on construction sites.

woah thats quite the set up, i guess i never thought of pulling them in from the end on some rollers. makes sense, so will the lucas mill a full 20' timber without the extensions? 

[Wyoelkhunter]

Don, that last picture is worth several SGU!  Been trying to figure out how to get long ones in my frame efficiently for a while!  THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!  
8)  8)  8)

Wyoelkhunter, only other thing I can add is an observation that entry level mills tend to sell quick and near list price.  As you move up the ladder there are fewer people in the "pool" of buyers.  As such resale is still good, but it takes longer and/or the discount over new on a percentage basis seems to get higher.

YMMV, as I'm only speaking statistically.

Thanks for the info thats good info, if i was planning on milling for money i would be looking in a whole different catagory but i got to keep it cheap for the house build for my first mill. To know that i should be able to get most of my money back out if i need to is reassuring. If i had the money i would step up into a nice hydraulic band mill but i think i gotta keep it manual so it makes more sense for me to keep the log stationary and go will a swing blade.