Need employee advise

Dewey · November 08, 2019, 02:51:44 PM

Yes I did say he could work his schedule a year ago .. Earlier this spring when I give raises I told him that I would give him a good raise if he could start working an honest 40 hrs.... he did that , I gave him a Pretty substantial raise ,he was great for a bit . He got back with her and its gone downhill from there..

My thought is she is depressed and needs help, that she apparently wont go for... I think she is really playing the guilt card on him to keep him around...

Ljohnsaw · November 08, 2019, 03:43:01 PM

Quote from: Dewey on November 08, 2019, 02:51:44 PMMy thought is she is depressed and needs help, that she apparently wont go for... I think she is really playing the guilt card on him to keep him around...

I just read this entire thread. Lots of great comments and ideas. I had this thought from your original post. I know he must be full of guilt for the incident and maybe he just can't figure out how to distance himself from her IF he no longer has feelings for her anymore.

Dewey · November 09, 2019, 09:01:19 AM

Liljohn Saw That's exactly the problem.... he told me that yesterday...

She doesn't want to be alone and has been talking suicide if he goes to work..

Southside · November 09, 2019, 09:41:50 AM

Then it's time for medical professionals to intervene.

mart · November 09, 2019, 01:40:21 PM

Quote from: Southside on November 09, 2019, 09:41:50 AM
Then it's time for medical professionals to intervene.

Absolutely it's time for professional intervention and do not wait. She may be playing that card as a way to manipulate him but she may actually be suicidal. Let the professionals deal with it.

47sawdust · November 09, 2019, 02:29:45 PM

There comes a time when professional help must be summoned.Our good will and sympathy can only be of so much help.Dewey,I commend you for trying as hard as you have to help this young man but sometimes the baggage that people carry around is more than we are capable of supporting and lines have to be drawn.I wish you well,the young man and woman also.

Brad_bb · November 10, 2019, 10:14:04 AM

Yes, call police, hospital etc and then you're out of it. You are not responsible after that. People are responsible for themselves. Happiness is a choice, and depression is a choice. You cannot make those choices for people. Call professionals, sit your employee down and explain how the world works, and then he has his choices to make. You're out of it from there. Move on with your life and be happy and guilt free.

never finished · November 10, 2019, 07:01:12 PM

Dewey. I'm of the belief that a compassionate man, is much richer than a man with a pocket full of money. Yes you have to keep your business a float and your family taken care of. The question only you can answer is can you do both and to what extent. It might be possible to work in professional counseling as a requirement for continued employment, and truck sitting. Which will most likely lead to a calmer separation of the two. You can likely explain to him, that the best way to help her. Is to lead her to help by example. Who knows? Not any of us, or them without trying. Hopefully with out stirring up a hornets nest. Please don't let anyone convince you that depression is a choice. You might make a life long difference in these two young peoples lives. Dennis

WV Sawmiller · November 10, 2019, 08:31:49 PM

Why not send them to counseling and see what the professional says about her being on site? If he advises it can you accommodate it? Does your insurance cover it?

Remember - you did not cause this situation. You can offer to help but you are not responsible for fixing it. Do you have the training, time and ability to help? The fact you are asking makes me think you're in over your head.

SawyerTed · November 11, 2019, 07:21:27 AM

There's much more to this situation that has come out than the original post included.

They are young, they may not know how to get professional help. They need someone to guide them to that help. If they have refused counseling previously, they may not have had an incentive.

When I meet my Maker, I'd want to know I did my best for these kids. I'd offer to pay for the first couple of sessions and expect mandatory attendance as a condition for continued employment. I'd rather pay to get them started than know I could have helped prevent a suicide and didn't.

It maybe a church, the health department or social service department can arrange free counseling. Even a call to a suicide prevention service could help you figure out who to send them to. Somebody needs to help them get the help they need. Their families are grieving too. At least you will know you tried.

Your other conditions for continued employment need to be put in writing - leaving her at home, on time, work hours, breaks, cell phone use etc.

Firming up expectations in conjunction with the assistance with counseling is tough love. Sounds like they need it.

If he can't abide by the conditions, fire him. He's had chances and second chances. Firing him may be the incentive he needs to change his situation.

Tom the Sawyer · November 11, 2019, 12:10:21 PM

That "depression is a choice" seems rather callous. Over the years I dealt with many people suffering from depression, or the behaviors associated with that condition. Sometimes it was too late and I had to wait for the coroner and notify the family.

Even the very young can have mental instabilities, or brain chemical imbalances. They can't just choose to stop being depressed. Adults, especially older adults among us, may be taking medications that interfere with their thoughts of well-being. If you must take a medication to survive, and one of the side effects is depression, that's not much of a "choice". It is now required by Medicare, for all adults at their first wellness visit with their doctor, that they be interviewed for symptoms of depression.

Raider Bill · November 11, 2019, 01:54:23 PM

There are a bunch of guys today [veterans day] that wish depression was "a choice".

Brad_bb · November 11, 2019, 02:52:55 PM

I had someone on here email me chastising me for saying that depression and happiness are a choice. I can see a few others here are taking umbrage as well. Well....I speak from experience. And it was the epiphany that ultimately it was a choice, that I was able to overcome. When you're deep down in that dark hole, spiraling down feels good, or comforting in a twisted way. That's why people tend to wallow in it. Brain chemistry is certainly a factor. But understanding that the chemistry is playing such a factor, and realizing that you have the power...the power to reject the bad feelings, the power to choose to be happy. I know It sounds like a bunch of hooey. Something I wouldn't normally subscribe to until I discovered it for myself, that I had the power. I had the power to choose and affect my mood, my attitude, my outlook. That, and some medication for a short time, along with some techniques to help release endorphins help keep you up...I didn't like the medication so I quit after a couple months. It was a short while after that, that I chose.

No one, I mean no one gets out from under depression, or addiction, or just changing anything in your life, without choosing to do so. You have to want to make a change, and choose to in order for any change to occur. It may seem obvious, but it is in realizing that you have the power and strength to do so, and wanting to, that can set you free. I know what I've experienced, so please don't try tell me it's not valid. Take what you will from what people say. I try not to judge them. The Op appears to be dealing with guilt and dependency, which are not healthy for him. Hopefully he'll do what's best for him. ...and sometimes that is the best thing for everybody.

curved-wood · November 11, 2019, 06:19:06 PM

I could agree that choice being a main factor in happiness. Depression that is another story. Bradd_bb ,I think you had a couple more steps to hit the bottom. The bottom is suicide. The step before is when you have no hope and I mean no hope at all. Just like your car battery is dead, even if you turn the key harder and want as much as you could the car does not start. It takes a minimum of energy to start the car and recharge the battery and sometime a boost from others. I went in the space of the ultimate last step and I could tell you that choices has no place there. I was suicidal to the point that in the morning I did know if I would make the day, telling me : Ok let's try to get to midday. My suicidal plan was ready. I got out with the help of brothers and sisters, friends, medicine and a good psychologist. Sorry to contradict you but in no way I could had get through with any kind of ''choice'' or willingness. Just as if I was drowning I needed help. Thanks to the Universe, today ( and for many of the past years ) my life is very happy .
Let's go back to the sawmill employee. There is some very good advices already given here. I insist on consulting a therapist. I dont think a young adult is equipped to help a girl friend to get out.
Your help: just be conscious at what level you are welling to help. There is no point to drown with the employee. A friend gave my his life formula and how he manages his energy : 1/3 for now, 1/3 for the tomorrow and the future, and 1/3 for the others. Sometimes in my life I had zero for the others, and sometimes I went way too high. It is good to choose consciously at what level are you are welling to help. Also the help could take may form : it could be paying the therapist bill even if he is not working for you anymore, it could be just talking on the work time, etc. Helping, whatever we could, is how we built a better world.

donbj · November 12, 2019, 12:52:07 AM

"I had someone on here email me chastising me for saying that depression and happiness are a choice. I can see a few others here are taking umbrage as well. Well....I speak from experience."

It's too bad that chastising took place but totally understandable. This type of issue is where discussion is far more important than judgement or chastisement. Everybody has a different capacity and journey through difficulty. At certain depths of depression choice isn't an option for many. With help, thinking rationally and for one's self becomes more of a reality. There is no blanket solution for all.

Roxie · November 12, 2019, 06:35:25 AM

Well said donbj.

Dewey · November 19, 2019, 03:29:06 PM

Well... After a week off and assurances the she is back in school and seeking help.... He lasted a day..
He left mid morning after getting 38 phone calls in a hour of suicidal threats..
I did make offers of helping with therapy and what ever else I can do ... twas like talking to a wall...

Raider Bill · November 19, 2019, 03:32:03 PM

You did what you could and it's beyond your reach.

never finished · November 22, 2019, 08:59:13 PM

Whether he excepted your help or not. You taught a young person the right way to do it. They will be in my prayers. Be proud of the effort you made. Yes it cost some money ( in production) to do the right thing. Don't be surprised if some day he thanks you for your effort, and that good feeling in your heart will be reward enough for your efforts. Dennis