Adding hydraulics

[Patrick NC]

I'm getting ready to start adding hydraulics to my mill. Norwood offers 2 options to power the pump. One is a 12v electric motor and the other is a 5 hp Honda engine. The electric version comes with an alternator for the mill engine and a deep cycle battery. I guess my question is will the added alternator rob enough engine power to warrant having the added fuel and maintenance of another engine? I would also assume the system with the Honda engine would be faster and have more power. Correct?

[mike_belben]

It takes 35 amps @120vac to make 5hp.  It takes about 405amps to get it from 12v alternator. You aint gonna get 5hp from the alternator add on.

The alternator and battery will be running a small powerpack like a lift gate.  In that system youre converting rotary motion to electrical current to stored electrical then into an electric motor to go back to rotary motion before converting to hydraulic which loses 10-20% power. There are cumulative efficiency losses in each conversion stage.  


The engine is a direct conversion of rotary motion to fluid power, new pumps and valves are about 85 to 90% efficient.  So youll have more hp and more gpm at higher psi potential using the engine system.

[Patrick NC]

That explanation has exactly the information I needed. Thanks. How do Wood-Mizer mills power their hydraulics? Is the pump driven directly from the motor?

[Iwawoodwork]

On my Mighty Mite band saw the hyd pump is belt drive off the engine. There is a 3 groove pulley on the crankshaft, 2 belts for saw blade and 1 belt to the hyd pump.

[Crusarius]

Big benefit to the 12v setup is you do not have to have an engine running to operate the hydraulics.

[mike_belben]

But is that a benefit at all?   

[Hilltop366]

I'm not sure what the price difference is but the gas engine option would be where I would gravitate especially if it has direct hyd valves, my perception is it would be less prone to down time with very little maintenance, a oil change (one quart) and clean the air filter once in a while, the electric option has a alternator, belt, battery, electric motor, solenoids and all the wires and connectors in between.

I'm not sure how much power the electric option would take from the blade but it would never be any more than the alternator can draw.

The battery will be the reserve for the difference. 

For example on my electric/hyd snow plow on a pickup truck with two batteries it will drop the volt meter by several volts when using the hyd (it varies by how heavy the snow is on the blade) and then go back up to almost normal volts when not using then to normal after a short while.

[SawyerTed]

Depending upon if you are stationary, consider an 120v electric motor to power the hydraulics if you are.  Flip a switch and you have hydraulic power.  It would take some minor ingenuity to do it but would be relatively easy.  

If you are doing portable sawing it obviously wouldn't work.  I believe I'd go with the 5 hp gas engine to go portable.

[Southside]

Completely agree with what Ted is advising you there.  To answer your question on the WM set up.  On the 35,40, 50 and non super 70 it is an electric over hydraulic pump, so a 12V system that runs around 3 or 4 GPM.  It works well, I would not say it's slow, but it's not fast by comparison.  The supers run two of these systems in parallel with larger hoses so you are in the 6-8 GPM range, a lot more snap there.  

The Super 70 by comparison is engine driven with two pumps that produce 18 GPM when both are engaged - now that is fast, it can be too fast if you are not used to it. 

If you are doing some portable and some stationary perhaps a 120V system, complete with a small tank, and a small generator.  That would give you the best speed without the hassle and noise of a second engine. 

[Patrick NC]

I think Norwood actually offers a 120v electric option. I'm going to do some more research on it. I mostly saw here and don't care much to go mobile. I was thinking about running power to the mill anyway for lights. That might be the best option for me. 

[Patrick NC]

I just looked at the Norwood website again and there is a second electric option. The first is an integrated system that is 12v. The second doesn't specify what the power source is, but says auxiliary electric powered. Both the 12v system and gas powered are around $2400. The auxiliary electric option is $1700. I think I'll call Norwood tomorrow and get some more information. 

[mike_belben]

This is the price JUST for the power pack or it includes the actual hydraulic toe board, backstop, turner whatever?


You can put together a brand new gas to hydraulic powerpack for under about $600 yourself.  Say $150 for a predator, under $100 for coupler and lovejoy, $100 for pump,  tanks are cheap.  Valve price depends on everything else.