When you're sawing, how small is too small to bother?

[bushhog920]

Something to think about when you double the diameter and area multiplies 4x. If you cut twice at many 10" logs as 20" you only get half as much lumber from the 10" logs.

[Ianab]

Something to think about when you double the diameter and area multiplies 4x. If you cut twice at many 10" logs as 20" you only get half as much lumber from the 10" logs.

Correct. And that goes to what I say about spending "x" minutes and then looking at the small pile of narrow boards and thinking "was that worth it?" Now if the wood is valuable enough, then maybe it is, but if you are charging by the bd/ft, then you are loosing money. A few 10" in the mix and you can deal with it, but a whole job of 10" logs? Hourly rate and let the customer decide if it's worth it.  
A commercial mill might actually saw logs down to 6", but that's because they have the whole tree to process, and they can fire small logs into a computerised "chip n saw" chain as fast as the conveyor will take them. If you have to manually load the log and turn the log to make 2 or 3 (low grade) 2x4s, was it worth it?

[welderskelter]

I had to saw a log (really a stick for my neighbor). It was a 5 ft. chunk of dry iron wood. About 6 to 7 in .in dia meter . Got about 4 boards and was it purty. I poured some water on it and it really shined. Thats a big ironwood up here. Usually they fall over and twist about 2 turns. Hard to hold one that small.

[Larry]

Right after I got my first mill 25 years ago I got a call from a guy wanting me to saw his walnut logs.  Sure, bring em out.  He shows up a few days later and I ask where are the logs?  He replies in the trunk of his compact car!  As it turned out this guy is a Kansas shop teacher and wants me to crosscut his "logs" at about 45 degrees 1-1/2" thick.  He is going to have his students make walnut slab clocks.

As the relationship matured, I ended up sawing several thousand of these clock slabs.  I would suppose every family in Kansas that had a kid in shop class during this period has a walnut clock hanging on there wall. :D

I think I could use a few "YellowHammerisms" on my website FAQ page.  Are they copyrighted?  Probably have to pay a royalty. ;D

[tule peak timber]

A few years back I posted about sawing and building with grape vines. Average 1/4 inch diameter, pretty small.

 

[Magicman]

 

 
These showed up at Customsawyer's place to be sawn.


 
And Jake...


 
Promptly made propellers!!!  :D

[YellowHammer]

I think I could use a few "YellowHammerisms" on my website FAQ page.  Are they copyrighted?  Probably have to pay a royalty. ;D

You are welcome to use them, except sometimes tell us a good story of a customer who violated them.  :D :D

"If I can unload it from your pickup truck or trailer by hand, then it's a stick, not a log, and I don't saw sticks, only logs."

Those are definately sticks, and sticks don't saw well.  If I'm not mistaken, Jake still has a piece of those propellers sitting on his front porch as a useful reminder and a good laugh.   

[Larry]

In this part of the country anybody with a chainsaw and a pickup is a logger.

So I get a call from a "logger" wanting to sell cedar a few days ago.  He says logs are prime and all 14 - 16".  We agree on a price and I tell him I'll take it all.  He shows up this morning with a trailer load of logs 3 to 6" sed with one nice plump 12" log.  Since I was in a good mood, I thought this would be a teaching moment.  I explained why I could not buy his logs.  He said he only brought the small ones because that was all he could lift on his trailer.  Sent him on his way and figured that would be the last time I saw him.

Couple of hours later I get a call that his neighbor was going to load the big logs on his trailer with a tractor and if it would be all right if he came back.  I said sure.  This evening I now have about 500 board foot of really nice cedar logs setting in my lot.  He said he will be back tomorrow with the rest of his logs.

I think sometimes creating a relationship and understanding is well worth the effort that will benefit both parties.

 

[customsawyer]

Why is it that every time someone is showing a picture of a bad example am I in it?

[stanwelch]

 :D :D :D  All in good fun my friend!!

[ladylake]

 
These showed up at Customsawyer's place to be sawn.


 
And Jake...


 
Promptly made propellers!!!  :D

  Those small ones are hard to clamp . I bolted on some 1 1/2 id square tubing  vertical on the inside of the frame about 8" in from the edge.  Then drop in some 1 1/2 square sacrificial oak pieces about 14" long to clamp against, saw right through them with no worry about hitting the stops and holds the log good.  I use those a lot on small cedar and walnut logs with a lot of taper or crooked,  most time we leave the natural edge as there wouldn't be much left trying to square the up.  Steve

[Cedarman]

When I first got into sawing ERC commercially over 30 years ago I knew there had to be a better way than sawing on a manual LT30.  We made money, but I wanted a faster way so I built my own 
end dogging scragg.  Worked great and I could saw a 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 out of a 4" log if needed.  There was a market for them and a world of 4" posts that were unacceptable for fence posts because of heavy sapwood.  Woodmizer had built a scragg and I was ready to upgrade, but they did not produce any for sale.  Baker came along and built an end dogging band scragg  that would saw a 3 7/16 by 3 7/16 which is what a mailbox post is sized at.  So we expanded with that scragg.  It lets us saw 30 to 60  5" to 11" by up to 11' long logs per hour.  Best we have done is saw 90  4" x 4" x 8' in 50 minutes.  Logs were presorted. $4.95 cost of log, $14.00 for each post.  Takes 4  to 5 people to be efficient.  But you can do the math and see that it was a money maker.
The right machine makes sawing small logs efficient.  Being efficient and having good markets makes sawing small logs worth it.
The economic law of diminishing returns kicks in when sawing small logs.  There is a window of log sizes that makes the best profit. The smaller the log, the smaller the profit.  At some point, there is zero profit in sawing too small of a log.  You need to know for your operation what that log size is. You can change the equation by changing the variables.  Change equipment (difficult)or change your pricing. (Easy).  This is why it is important to know the profit to be made on sawing different log sizes.  Every operation is different.

[Sixacresand]

I don't mind milling a customer's two or three fence post size logs.  But I don't want a do a truck load of them.  Some folks around here want heirloom lumber from leyland cypress trees (or any species) they cut down in their yards because a family member planted them.  It is hard to say no to that.  

[WDH]

 



Customer said he had some cedar logs for me to saw and dropped them off when I was not there.  That second one from the far back is a real prize as is the one on the far right.  These violate all the "Yellowhammer Rules".  One of the good reasons that I do not custom saw anyone logs anymore.  @cedarman, run these through your scragg .  

[tule peak timber]

Moving up from 1/4 inch diameter, I saw a great deal of 1-4 inch diameter for passage doors, cabinetry, furniture,architectural millwork, stairways, signage, walls, framing, lots of custom milling, and more. I am truly the Wizard Of Crap .

 

[btulloh]

I've got some large poison ivy vines that run upward of 3" in diameter.  I've always wondered if they could be used for something.  Maybe I should send you some to try out.  Right up your alley.  PPE required when sawing/machining.

[Walnut Beast]

Sounds like nothings to small for you tule 😂. Yellowhammers head would be spinning with his five gallon bucket and being able to lift by hand criteria 😂😂

[Cedarman]

Danny, what did you do to deserve a load like that? Your reputation must say you are a magician with your saw.  My scragg would say, sorry, not sawing today, go someplace else.  We get a few logs like that once in a while, but we have a nice chat with the person that brought them.
Let the logs set for a year or until the bark loosens.  Pressure wash the bark off .  Display for the artistic type and sell for 10 times normal value because of their rareness.  I hope they would go extinct.

[WDH]

Yes, can't let those breed. 

[tule peak timber]

Re: When you're sawing, how small is too small to bother?
 The answer to this question is "when it is not profitable", not "when it's not easy". Easy is easy making a profit comes hard. As long as there is profit, we'll cut anything for anyone, at any size, 1/4" to 77". 8)
WOC

[doc henderson]

How Its Made - 843 Heather Gems - Bing video

[Bandmill Bandit]

In general I draw the line at 8" ish small end unless it a landscape tie job. I'll do those to 5" small end BUT the have to very clean and limbed tight to the trunk. 

Other wise it does depend a LOT on who is asking you to cut the little guys.

My Daughter came over to the mill with a "STICK" of Lilac and asked if I could get 2 x 1" thick pieces out of it for her to make a couple of Christmas presents. The things Dads will do for daughters. Had to plane them too.


 


 
She ended up with 3 pieces 12" long and about 4 ish wide by the REQUIRED 1" thick

[tule peak timber]

How Its Made - 843 Heather Gems - Bing video

Bingo,,,,$$$
  When I lived in England I would see heather everywhere--it is the common weed seen in open fields.
 Someone was smart enough to take the front yard trash and market it as "gems". It makes a Wizards heart like mine swell WOC

[woodduckhunter]

Sawing with a tk2200, I'll go down to a 8" top in mixed southern hardwood if it's straight and no knots. Make good out of what I can when buying tree length logs.  Sort everything from 8-11.5/12 for a steady 6x6 mkt.  just like the rest of it, at what point is what you are doing not profitable?