Establishing a New Pine Plantation

[SwampDonkey]

That pine is like a rocket in flight there Danny. Don't stand too close too long, we might loose you in the shade. :D

How much premium for the pine Ian? I have clear pine doors, that isn't southern pine of white pine, pretty sure it's radiata, but could be from China, who knows. They are $100 doors all clear wood.

[Ianab]

Radiata ex China will probably be NZ logs originally. 

Prices are currently around $200 a ton for pruned vs ~$100 for unpruned or top logs.  As the butt log is the largest, and harvest / trucking costs are the same, it's in the forest owners interest to prune the trees. Could basically double the return at harvest time. 

Like if the whole tree is worth 200 or 300 at the mill, and harvesting / trucking is $100 in either case. One tree makes $100 for the forest owner, the other $200. 

[SwampDonkey]

That's not bad money. Close to veneer price for spruce. Best I've seen for spruce veneer was $1000 US back 20 years ago. No more market local.

I've also used this wood that was machined for stair treads, it's a solid 1". I used it to make a nice pine corner shelf for a mantle clock that is quite tall. Goes with all the pine trim and doors quite nicely.

[WDH]

Here, there is no premium for pruning.  Who knows what the future holds. 

[petefrom bearswamp]

Impressive growth.
My only problem with that super fast growth is that the lumber is about as strong as an 83 yr old man,(me).
State conservation department now the department of environmental conservation, used to prune both the Norway spruce and Red pine but stopped doing that in the 70s
I did some privately planted red pine in 1969 and wonder what it looks like now.
It was a federal cost sharing project, I pruned to 8' for I think 50 cents a tree, not a very good money maker.

[mike_belben]

I looked pretty close at a SYP 2x the other day and the density from seedling was tight but what an impressive growth spurt when thinned at maybe 15 or 20 yrs.  3/8 rings or so until harvest. 


In 2016 i unknowingly mowed these seedlings in my front lawn, as the grass was pocket high from abandonment.  I dont know if they were planted or natural seeding from neighbor pines that survive standard mowing.. They spacing is erratic and past owner was flat broke so thats my guess.  Either way that one in the center has twice the growth rate of its siblings.  What are the chances i can breed that thing for privacy plantings elsewhere in the yard?

 

[SwampDonkey]

Have to be controlled pollination or you wouldn't be sure of the progeny. Traits you want could be 25% chance if open pollinate.

[WDH]

I expect that the future of wood products is engineered lumber, not natural boards sawn from logs.  The wood will be a raw material for an engineered product that will be better in performance than conventionally sawn dimension lumber.  It will be 20+ years before these trees will be harvested for anything other than pulpwood. I strongly suspect that wood technology will advance quite considerably in that timeframe.  In any event, it is unlikely that I will be around to see where these trees end up.  

This is an 11 acre plantation in front of my house so I look forward to tending it while I can still tend to anything.  This site was an old field that I planted to pine in 1987 and harvested in the Fall of 2016 at age 30.  This is now the second plantation crop on this site. 

[caveman]

If I recollect, that is the tract you had a crew hand plant shortly before I dropped in with a forestry team a few years ago.  Those trees are certainly growing.  Thank you for showing them to us again.

[customsawyer]

Great looking stand.

[WDH]

You recollect correctly, Kyle.  I will post a pic about the other stand that was the original subject for this thread, the one planted by Mr. Customsawyer (note the Mr. Mister). 

[Wudman]

I expect that the future of wood products is engineered lumber, not natural boards sawn from logs.  The wood will be a raw material for an engineered product that will be better in performance than conventionally sawn dimension lumber.  It will be 20+ years before these trees will be harvested for anything other than pulpwood. I strongly suspect that wood technology will advance quite considerably in that timeframe.  In any event, it is unlikely that I will be around to see where these trees end up.  

This is an 11 acre plantation in front of my house so I look forward to tending it while I can still tend to anything.  This site was an old field that I planted to pine in 1987 and harvested in the Fall of 2016 at age 30.  This is now the second plantation crop on this site.

With a caveat........engineered wood has been the "future" for the last 30+ years.  When I was in forestry school, that was the talk of the town.  We were anticipating nothing but OSB, glulams, LVLs, and other engineered lumber.  We are seeing an anomaly in the framing lumber market today, but as long as we can produce $3.00 (in the norm) 2x4s, I believe the small dimension lumber market will continue.  As Russia develops infrastructure to (timber) mine Siberia, I believe cheap dimension lumber will prevail on the world wide scale.  With that said, I built a new home 5 years ago and it has engineered I-joist, AdvanTech Flooring, OSB sheathing, and LVLs carrying the floor load across a great room on two floors.  The architect specified a triple 12" LVL to carry the second floor load above my great room.  My builder suggested that he could utilize triple 16s there to insure a stiff floor.  I went with the 16s and I believe I could drive a D7 across it without deflection.  Even with a dozen rambunctious teens upstairs, that floor doesn't move.  The walls are still conventionally framed 2x4s and the roof rafters are 2x8s (32 foot long Doug Fir compliments of British Columbia). 
Southern yellow pine (lobl_olly in particular) still owns the treated lumber market.  With the Formosan termite running around the Southern US, I don't think that will change in the foreseeable future.  With the superior genetics of today, we are growing arrow straight boles with tiny limbs.  When I cut the stands that I planted this week, I guess I'll be ready to retire then.   ;D ;D
Wudman
        

[SwampDonkey]

I have all those material in my new house as well. 2 LVL's on a 32' span, 1 per floor. My wood room partition  in the basement and kitchen partition on the first floor does the job for the great room upstairs where a heavy wooden floor loom sits. ;D

LVL



Look at all that dimensional wood. ;D



Great room with loom. ;D



The coffee table is the middle point, but the end by me has an L corner. To the right of the loom is a bedroom and stairway. 6' on the corners to 9' to 14' ceiling

[Southside]

Wudman - Grow some size on those for me and reserve the truck to come here when you cut them please.  

[WDH]

Update.  Here is last March 2021 after the 3rd growing season:



 

Photo from same spot one year later in march 2022 after the 4th growing season.



 

[Southside]

You wore the same clothes for a year?  :D

[SwampDonkey]

Awesome Growth!

Grow them trees.  8)

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[caveman]

It makes me happy to see you standing there with them.  I remember when I brought the FFA forestry team by there, they were just little loblollys.  I wanted to transplant a dozen or so volunteer slash pine with my three-year-old grandson, but I may have waited too late this year.  You must have good ground and super good genetics in those trees.  I look forward to seeing you next month at Jakes.

[customsawyer]

I see how it is. I help you get this tread going and now you don't need me anymore. Since you have these new little babies. I need pictures of the ones I planted.......

[Southside]

He probably fed those to the tree smoother.  :D

[SwampDonkey]

Danny,
Was going for a sawmill blade, but I think it is a cut-off saw. Could be planer if you excuse the fact the board got turned 90 degrees along the way and live edging. ;D You've got to work within the limitations of what you've got to work with, that includes the mind of the artist. :D

[WDH]

Don't want to hurt Customsawyer's feelings.  Here is an update on the original plantation that started this thread in 2009.  The trees are going into their 14th growing season and will be 1st thinned this year.

Here is my truck for perspective:



 

Average diameter about 8" and average height over 40 feet.  They will be thinned to 50 square feet of basal area which is about 150 trees/acre.  








 

This is Agri-forestry which may offend some people.  I have 90 acres in various age classes from age 3 to 34.  I also have 150 acres in naturally managed forests, mostly hardwoods so there is some balance.  The goal for the plantations is for timber value while the goal for the natural areas are a balance of timber production and wildlife habitat management.  Once this plantation is thinned and burned, the native weeds, forbs and herbaceous plants colonize the site and the wildlife habitat value goes way up.  This stage from about age 8 to 14 has the least wildlife value but that will change significantly very soon.  

[SwampDonkey]

Great stuff! Even the dog approves. ;)

That takes 25-30 years for fir and white spruce up this way. Been thinning my plantations now the second time, for 3 years.

[Walnut Beast]

Pretty cool! A friend of mine was telling me when we were down in my woods looking things over that a customer that bought a 300hp dedicated mulcher for their Poplar plantation saw a increase of 25 to 30 percent growth from mulching 

[SwampDonkey]

Makes a huge difference in ring growth up here for sure, when thinned.