Any folks on the forum that sharpen circ/tablesaw blades and other tools?

[jimbarry]

I sharpen sawmill bandsaw blades, looking to expand into circ/table saw blades, planer knives, and maybe router bits, stump grinder teeth etc. Looking for advice on choice of quality machines to do the work. Only company I have looked at so far is Thorvie. Only interested in machinery made in North America, maybe Europe.

[Percy]

I have a Tormek T8 made in Sweden I think. I use it for planer blades and molding knives. Its....ok at what it does and is a well built machine....Molding knives is  fairly easy. Planer knives are a PITA if they are longer than 12 inches and the process is very slow and time consuming..

Im researching small circular saw sharpeners 18 inch and smaller.....If I find something interesting,Ill post it...

[moodnacreek]

Doesn't everybody?

[jimbarry]

Doesn't everybody?

Yes, I'm sure everyone does their own at least. I meant commercially, or as a side business.

[longtime lurker]

Circular saws are like bandsaws okay.... as the size increases the skill set and the equipment required to do the job changes. You can successfully sharpen and set a 1¼" band at home for a few hundred bucks worth of investment....manual sharpener, manual setter, throw it out when the tooth is worn down. But my bands are 8" wide and require a skilled tradesman and about $100k worth of filing room fitout to be able to retip, tension and resharpen.

Circular saws are not quite that complex but the same principal applies. Tablesaw size saws can be sharpened with a small bench grinder. Mill saws need to be hammered for tension, and retipping and sharpening requires the ability to profile grind the teeth to suit the application.

I am a great lover of weld in teeth for circular saws... they cut better for longer and rather like my bandsaws I trade off easy maintenance for performance. My cost per shift for saw maintenance is far higher but we get a lot more wood for that dollar.

I don't know what the current state of the art gear for circular saws looks like. I know there are automatic tensioners that do a better job of hammering than any skilled man at the anvil. I know there are automatic machines that weld / profile grind in one pass. Rather like my big bands I elect to leave that to the professionals and cut wood and so long as there's another sawblade to go to in the mill I'm happy to pay the guys with the skills and the big gear.

Iseli and Vollmer are the brands that comes to mind for state of the art equipment...  there's probably others.

The most normal equipment I see in Australian Sawmills and they are highly sought after and sell real quick is a "Goldsmith Saw Sharpener" made by goldsmith engineering in Taree Australia. They are a semi automatic sharpener and do a really good job. I don't believe they are still in production - but they were built back when to last and it's the most in demand item when a mill closes up. I'm sure that if you look around the web at sawmilling equipment dealers you'll find equivalent equipment for sale.... state of the art in 1980 has little demand in a 2020 production mill but it's still fine gear without so much automatic about it.

[moodnacreek]

Large diameter circle saws are not tensioned by automatic machines but are done by a very skilled smith regardless of how many stretcher rolls he has. There has been some b.s. written on how the hammer is obsolete.  That is the case with wide bandsaws. The reason there are still commercial circle mills is because of the upkeep of the wide band. It requires one or two more men and a shop constantly 'filing' bands to keep the mill going. 

[longtime lurker]

The hammer is not obsolete yet; but it will be in my lifetime. Yet another skilled tradesman replaced by a computer hooked up to a stretcher and a laser scanner for fault diagnosis... the hammer and the man who wields it will go the way of the blacksmith and wheelwright and whitesmith and who knows how many other skilled occupations of yesteryear.

CNC cut sawplates were the game changer... the truth is that saws now can be manufactured to tolerances that were impossible not so long ago. And the same machine that takes that precision cut sawplate and turns it into a workable saw at the factory "new" can be used to reset that saw to "as new". It's just the cost... cost means that the equipment is confined to the saw manufacturers or a few large saw shops or super high production mills. Guys like us will never justify it, and small shops won't justify it either. But thats industrialisation and globalisation yeah? Less factories with bigger and better gear.

I don't know how good it is (at this point). I just know it exists, and that it will get better because the price of one machine is cheaper than the price of training and maintaining the guy it replaces. And maybe it won't be as good as the skilled man but - just like the skilled sawyer compared to optimising gear and automated mills - it'll be that hard to get a good man that 90% of the skill at double the speed means that will be the way of the future.

ROUND SAW CENTER TENSIONER LEVELER | Williams & White Equipment |

[Bradm]

About 2 years ago, I got a verbal quote on the 120" tension roller from Williams & White and it came in around $100,000US so add about 30% if you're in Canada.  An automatic saw flattener (similar size) came in at 85,000EUR and still required the use of a manual roller.

@jimbarry, unless you can find a used Foley grinder, the Thorvie is going to be it.  Your also going to want a brazing station for tooth repair and an anvil to do some minor hammering (don't forget about a dog head or twist-face hammer and straight edges).  Entry level, semi-automatic equipment will run you close to $85,000US new for both a Top & Face grinder and dual side grinder, and you will be limited to either Armstrong or Wright (both owned by Simonds).  Top end cnc machines will start around $80,000US per machine and can top out around $650K depending on options.

@moodnacreek, I don't think that the hammer will ever be truly obsolete.  Much like the manual mill and manual lathe, there will always be a time and a place for the skilled hammerman.  I think the harder part of hammering is finding the proper tension guages.  As for wideband vs circular, I think the primary drivers (at least around my area) for a circular blade over a band is the cost involved in getting a band properly set up and only one shop equipped to properly hammer and grind them.  I've seen two mills upgrade to wide bands - one successfully while the other went back to a circular blade after 12 months and a lot of wasted time and money (wrong head rig, improper cement and foundation work, lack of patience).

[jimbarry]

@jimbarry, unless you can find a used Foley grinder, the Thorvie is going to be it.  Your also going to want a brazing station for tooth repair and an anvil to do some minor hammering (don't forget about a dog head or twist-face hammer and straight edges).  Entry level, semi-automatic equipment will run you close to $85,000US new for both a Top & Face grinder and dual side grinder, and you will be limited to either Armstrong or Wright (both owned by Simonds).  Top end cnc machines will start around $80,000US per machine and can top out around $650K depending on options.

Thanks for all the replies. Interesting discussion but that's why I mentioned the Thorvie, to indicate where my head was at for type of things I was looking at sharpening (circular saw and table saw blades, not circle saw mill blades).  I currently have the Woodmizer BMS250 system of automatic sharpener and automatic dual tooth setter. Its a decent side business that we added to our woodworking shop. So now I am looking at the Thorvie (or other), in particular their AV40 system with dust collector. If it gets busy enough to justify semi or full automation then I can consider that at that time.

[moodnacreek]

Brand new mill [circle saws] are still hammered by hand in conjunction with powered stretcher rolls. They do a final grind to remove the hammer marks and in my new saw they missed some.